Wondering if Retailers have the guts to withstand Vanilla Raiding

[precious]

Blizzard increases complexity, but the addons nerf complexity. So it just becomes down to a successful run having members with the latest addons.

I just think it's funny when people say Retail runs are more complex. Give them Vanilla addons only, DBM, threat meters. Watch them fail.

Retail addons tell you where to stand, when to cast, when to not cast, when to run, who to run to, who not to run to, when to use items, when to group up, or separate, etc, etc etc.

Addons existed in Vanilla. But generally it was up to the player to watch for indications of something happening, beyond a dong sound. It was up to the player how the fight should be handled. And how to not die.

Do retailers really need an addon to tell them not to stand in front of a dragon breathing fire? Yes, they do. Vanilla veterans would not need such advice.

And that was the only mechanic most bosses had. Average tries for bosses back then 50-100. Current average tries for current bosses 600-700 with at least x5 more raiding time. Yea i guess addons carry hard.

[Lollis]

And that was the only mechanic most bosses had. Average tries for bosses back then 50-100. Current average tries for current bosses 600-700 with at least x5 more raiding time. Yea i guess addons carry hard.

Front: Breath and Cleave
Back: Tail knocks you back

Rule number one as Melee, sit at side near back legs.

It was so difficult when I played Rogue before I switched to Mage. Seriously. Very complex.


Anyone comparing Vanilla encounters to Legion encounters, with or without addons, and saying they are remotely similar in complexity is a moron.

[Deleted]

These are literally just bait troll threads designed to get a reaction from WoW players. What exactly do they add to the discussion?

Apparently, it's a huge thing making idiot out of yourself in hardcore vanilla fanboy playerbase

Retail addons tell you where to stand, when to cast, when to not cast, when to run, who to run to, who not to run to, when to use items, when to group up, or separate, etc, etc etc.

Can you tell me a name of such an addon ??? I've never seen something like that in 13 years

Do retailers really need an addon to tell them not to stand in front of a dragon breathing fire?

No

Vanilla veterans would not need such advice.

And still die from it

Would veterans need to be told to move? naw To be told when to group? not really. When to click, or use an item in their inventory? Vanilla is social based, so even the shittiest runs use voice chat, Discord. Even then, the majority of people you run with are people you ran with before.

yea because every boss requires you to do that in vanilla...

dbm doesn't tell you to move or group up... it will tell you that something will happen in 5 seconds an if you're not braindead with IQ of a banana peel (like an averege vanilla raider) you will respond to that accordingly

[Nixl]

I'm happy that you can enjoy content which is somewhat dated and requires for a person to farm their materials over a long period of time to prepare for a raid night. I truly am, I've learned it can be somewhat hard to find what you truly enjoy in life.

However, I don't think insulting or trying to annoy others is the best way to show your type of appreciation for that style of gaming or what you enjoy. It is a game after all not a religion or a job (for most of us anyway).

Hope the classic servers will be everything you're looking for .

[Lollis]

Crazy, I never knew discord was around in vanilla!

Ventrilo master race.

My roflcopter goes soi soi soi.

[Jastall]

Blizzard increases complexity, but the addons nerf complexity. So it just becomes down to a successful run having members with the latest addons.

I just think it's funny when people say Retail runs are more complex. Give them Vanilla addons only, DBM, threat meters. Watch them fail.

Retail addons tell you where to stand, when to cast, when to not cast, when to run, who to run to, who not to run to, when to use items, when to group up, or separate, etc, etc etc.

Addons existed in Vanilla. But generally it was up to the player to watch for indications of something happening, beyond a dong sound. It was up to the player how the fight should be handled. And how to not die.

Do retailers really need an addon to tell them not to stand in front of a dragon breathing fire? Yes, they do. Vanilla veterans would not need such advice.

Would veterans need to be told to move? naw To be told when to group? not really. When to click, or use an item in their inventory? Vanilla is social based, so even the shittiest runs use voice chat, Discord. Even then, the majority of people you run with are people you ran with before.

Lol. Vanilla had addons that could downright do your rotation for you in some cases and literally everyone had stuff like threat meters, damage meters, and early DBM equivalents available to them. If ''vanilla players don't need no addons'' is the hill you want to die on, you might want to inform yourself on how raids actually worked in vanilla.

And toss a vanilla player in a Mythic raid without addons and watch them get absolutely massacred because what is a taunt swap. It's pretty clear to me you haven't stepped foot in any actually hard raid in a long time if you think not standing in front of the boss is a hard mechanic.

[Gorgodeus]

Considering I raided hardcore throughout vanilla, I kinda think i'm not. There are enough mats for many raids worth of greater firepower elixirs. To even suggest you are taking that many is hilarity beyond measure.

As a Mage maining raid leader, most of these would not be expended fully after raids, usually not even close to running out.

40-80 Mana Pots
Maybe 20 Healing Pots depending on encounter/healers
20 Greater Dreamless Sleep for select occasions
20-30 Resist Pots of X type, more depending on farm status
~10 Wizard Oil / Mana oil depending on fight
4-6 Flasks of Supreme Power
20-30 Greater Firepower Elixir, more depending on farm status
20-30 Arcane Elixir, more depending on farm status
40 of selected food buffs

Even if I ever used all of that up, which I practically never did, it still doesn't come close to the number that the op is showing in their little bullshit screenshot.

Far more space was taken up by stuff like Arcane Powder and Teleport/Portal Runes than by any of the combat consumables.

Their little "bullshit screenshot" is not needed for 1 raid. OP never said that. But more hours were spent farming mats than raiding for raids in Vanilla by progression guilds, unless they were trash.

[Eapoe]

Recently, we were discussing AQ 40 and Naxx 40 progression with the Mage Class Leader and he shared with me his preparations for AQ 40 and Naxx 40:





This is pretty much required for raiding in AQ 40 and Naxx 40. "I have no money", "I have no time to farm", "I am so good that I don't need consumables" etc won't work here.

What do you think? Do you think that you can take this abuse before running back in tears to the caring arms of J. Allen Brack, your Kung Fu Panda, your Pokemon and LFR?

What? Is this real? You honestly think people are going to put that much time and effort in when they don't do this on PS's?
Don't give me that "ps aren't vanilla" excuse now after so many people say "but they're so close to the original!"
This is a BS thread made to try and irritate others. Guess what. Not many people care, and you're fooling yourself and others if you think people are going to treat Vanilla like it's some kind of 2nd coming of true WoW.
You want it to be great, others want it to be great. Hell, I have no intention of playing it and I want it to be great. That said, short of farming soul shares for Locks and other things required to to succeed, you're completely delusional if you think every single person is going to be that prepared for MC/AQ40 pugs and not be clearing them in short order.
Run back to retail? Hah. Please, try harder next time.

[Segus1992]

Is this the real life version 40 year old virgin? I can imagine 20-somethings doing this kind of shit, but you're what, 45?

[rayden54]

You realize that “retailers” played Vanilla wow too, right? In fact, they are probably better at the game/like the game more than those who quit and now consider themselves to somehow be Gods or of a higher order

Oh. Retailers = people who play retail. I get it. Was wondering what this had to do with stores.

[TaurenNinja]

Any semi-decent semi-hardcore Mythic raiding guild will be able to steamroll through any Vanilla raid without problems, and probably more guilds than that.
(Which is by the way why I think that they need to tune the Classic bosses harder)

Farming stuff isn't difficult, it's just a grind, nothing more. There are also other things to grind these days, like artifact power/azerite or higher ilvl procs.
Also, farming can be delegated in big parts. In my guild we had -- especially at the start of Legion where mats were still scarce and expensive -- a dedicated support team of not very strong raiders (regular bench players) who still wanted to support the raid and so they supported us with mats. This helped a bit at the start of the addon, but again, it's in no way necessary, it's absolutely possible for each raider to do it for himself. The time lost by farming more mats/consumables will in effect simply reduce the number of split chars each raider will have at the ready, which is something that Blizzard wants to restrict anyway because top guilds run 5-7 chars in parallel (all Mythic ready) which is kind of insane. So there will naturally be more time to farm consumables/mats. Which, again, isn't hard... anyone can do it.
Do you know what almost no guild can do on the other hand? Clearing a current Mythic raid in a decent time frame. :P

[Dispraise]

Stop trying to make "retailers" happen.

[Doffen]

Don't think I have the guts for it. I mean how is it even possible to kill bosses in vanilla!!

Btw, remember in the start of these two sub-forums(this and Bfa) after blizzcon and vanilla-lovers bragged about this subforum got more posts than the BfA one and retail was doomed? Now BfA got more than twice the amount of posts, not to mention the other sub-forums is alot more about BfA than this. Vanilla WoW will meet the same faith. Fuzz in the start then people realize how fun it is to play something 11 years to late.

[Lollis]

Their little "bullshit screenshot" is not needed for 1 raid. OP never said that. But more hours were spent farming mats than raiding for raids in Vanilla by progression guilds, unless they were trash.

Farming for weeks worth of raids and then saying that nobody would be able to handle it... It is a bullshit scenario because the vast, vast, vast majority of people didn't do it, and simply didn't need to do it. They farmed a couple of hours a week, usually before or after raids.

This is akin to telling legion players that they need to have 200 flasks, 500 food, 500 Potions, and 500 runes to be able to do any raiding.

It's a bullshit screenshot in a bait thread plain and simple.

[schwarzkopf]

Better question is - will vanilla raiders have the guts to invite non elitists into their raids?

They didn't in Vanilla

[Gorgodeus]

Farming for weeks worth of raids and then saying that nobody would be able to handle it... It is a bullshit scenario because the vast, vast, vast majority of people didn't do it, and simply didn't need to do it. They farmed a couple of hours a week, usually before or after raids.

This is akin to telling legion players that they need to have 200 flasks, 500 food, 500 Potions, and 500 runes to be able to do any raiding.

It's a bullshit screenshot in a bait thread plain and simple.

I was talking about actual progression guilds. You were not much of a progression guild if you could farm mats "a couple of hours a week". Which brings me back to what I said before: you are clueless as to what was needed in a Vanilla end game progression guild.

[Lollis]

Better question is - will vanilla raiders have the guts to invite non elitists into their raids?

They didn't in Vanilla

There is a difference between elitists, elitist jerks, and competent players. Carrying people who screw up every single fight isn't fun.

You don't have to be an elitist to get into a raid, but not being braindead is a real plus.

- - - Updated - - -

I was talking about actual progression guilds. You were not much of a progression guild if you could farm mats "a couple of hours a week". Which brings me back to what I said before: you are clueless as to what was needed in a Vanilla end game progression guild.

I was in a progression guild consistently fighting for server first kills, usually either 2nd or at worst 3rd on the server. I was Herb/Alchemist with 300 Fishing and 300 Cooking. Before raids I'd usually put 1 maybe 2 hours into farming mats, and probably doing a dungeon or two for certain instance only farms or gear, afterwards I might put another hour to pickup some stuff for the raid tomorrow. Off days or hours would be farming and PvP. I consistently had days in which I had no need to farm stuff because I knew I had enough for the rest of the week.

A couple of hours is a general term, of which no actual duration was stated until I just posted now. You didn't literally farm 100% of your offraid time for consumables, to even suggest it is idiotic nonsense.

But sure, because obviously I'm completely wrong, never raided at all, never had to deal with progression raiding, and am completely clueless compared to you who had to deal with a fuck ton of slog while farming 20 healing potions per hour. Maybe you just couldn't farm for shit?

[schwarzkopf]

You don't have to be an elitist to get into a raid, but not being braindead is a real plus.

You did have to be an elite to get into Vanilla raids (at least on my server at the time).

Many an evening spent in IF doing the looking for raid into chat, only to be denied as I'd not raided any elite stuff before (only Strat/Scholo/BRS etc)

I was attuned to everything,even NAAX ... couldn't even get into MC as I wasn't elite.

[MoanaLisa]

What do you think? Do you think that you can take this abuse before running back in tears to the caring arms of J. Allen Brack, your Kung Fu Panda, your Pokemon and LFR?

There's a discussion to be had about raid preparations for Classic WoW. This isn't that discussion and the stuff in the quote above is beyond anything that will lead to anything useful.

Closing.