Mythic Tomb Difficulty in 7.3

[Quag]

Hey all,

we are a pretty casual guild that only really focuses on clearing heroic content when it is current, then as the tier progresses we gear up alts, and farm mog from the previous raids.

For example we have Antoris firmly on farm on heroic, clearing it in less than 3 hours once a week, and we also have been farming Nighthold Mythic for the past 5 weeks with the intention of getting the mount for every raider in the guild before we stop running it. Which leads me to asking people with more experience than myself, now that we are comfortably killing Guldan mythic and don't have to bother clearing the rest of the raid, we have an extra raid night and are looking to start farming Mythic Tomb.

Obviously when you go back to Nighthold in 965 gear it basically removes 95% of all the mechanics/difficulties with very few exceptions, so I wanted to ask what people think we can expect from Tomb. Almost all of the guides on wowdead/fatboss etc are from when it was current, so are they still worth looking at or is it a very different experience when you outgear the hell out of it.

Any advice welcome, we are planning on starting next week.

[Artemol]

damn i didnt know people were progressing mythic bosses 1-2 tiers ago, blows my mind.

ToS is FACEROLL tho, no bosses require any fancy tactics besides the "dont stand in shit and dont die".

Avatar can be killed in p2, from 100% hp.

KJ can still wipe u, if u fall out the platform. even IF you miss a soak now a days, u can outheal it.

thats about it.

[rootbeerboy]

damn i didnt know people were progressing mythic bosses 1-2 tiers ago, blows my mind.

ToS is FACEROLL tho, no bosses require any fancy tactics besides the "dont stand in shit and dont die".

Avatar can be killed in p2, from 100% hp.

KJ can still wipe u, if u fall out the platform. even IF you miss a soak now a days, u can outheal it.

thats about it.

You're full of shit

[KaPe]

You're full of shit

It's especially funny since tomb was literally *stand in shit or you die*, what with the dozens of soaks.

Everything before Mistress would be laughable... Goroth would probably be the biggest issue, if you fail the soaks. I can imagine Mistress being a total joke as well, with the biggest challenge being not killing Stalkers too quickly. Current hitpoints should make Hydra shot completely trivial and she'd probably die before any nasty overlaps.

Maiden would still be a bitch. It's a boss that can wipe you in 8 seconds and it keeps looping that mechanic for the entire fight. A single explosion probably wouldn't murder you, but it's still a huge burst of damage. If someone messes up during bombs, it would be a nasty chain reaction. Bad soaking during transition - same. Sure, you could skip several orbs and still do "fine", but more than (3?) and you're dead. Could easily stretch the phase for a long time, though, and burn the boss early after phase change.

Avatar would probably be the easiest of the last three. Shields would be a joke to burst down, raid damage would be easily manageable with extra 1.5 mln hp, you'd have him at a decent % within just a few rotations. You'd still need to soak the meteors and position him properly, but that's something that can be learned quite easily. Hell, you could probably burn well over 60% in a decent P2, people were killing him from >30% in a much worse gear.

KJ... Every missed Armageddon is like getting triple add explosion on Agrramar. You could probably survive that, if it doesn't happen during a bad moment, only one of them goes off and people who already have dots don't get killed by combined ticks. Singularities would still be a horrible nuisance and first transition is unskipable two minutes of running around like idiots, followed by a nasty overlap right at the start of P2. On a plus side, you'd skip the second dps and healing adds and probably burn him down just after the second Darkness, so it's only four obelisks. Even botched orbs should be a joke with our massive hp pools.

I'm almost curious how KJ would really look, but then I remember what a pita he was and don't want to go back.

[Quag]

Cheers for the replies so far.

So essentially bar maiden/Kj most bosses should be to a large extent trivialized because the majority of the team will be in 960+ ilvl gear. Any advice/suggestions on comps - we generally run 4 healers, should we aim to run more/less on particular bosses?

Thanks again

[Ozyorkbourne]

Cheers for the replies so far.

So essentially bar maiden/Kj most bosses should be to a large extent trivialized because the majority of the team will be in 960+ ilvl gear. Any advice/suggestions on comps - we generally run 4 healers, should we aim to run more/less on particular bosses?

Thanks again

Tbh you could 2-3 heal the first 5 bosses in Throne HC gear. For 6th boss 4 healing, 2/side should be comfortable.

You can just Bloodlust on pull all bosses except maiden (save for first orb phase, or 2nd depending on CD alignment, 2nd pots ect) and possibly KJ. Big benefit of BL can be to skip a set of adds but if you aren't going to do that in P1/2 you could save it for P3 and zerg it since you can still get knocked off by the obelisk beams.

[A-sayo]

Most bosses should be faceroll as long as you follow the basics. From Maiden, things start getting hectic :
- Maiden is a wipe is one messes up ;
- Avatar soaks should be easier, the dps check should be non existant with Antorus gear, but some mistakes can be fatal ( = not soaking correctly, standing in fire) ;
- I can't really speak for KJ mythic, but you may need to stop dps at one point to avoid bad overlaps (Dps adds + dark phase, for example).

[Tech614]

Everything up to Mistress will be a joke, and even Mistress kind of easy.

The last 3 will still be competence checks, and if you fail them you will wipe. You will just have less of them since the fights will be much faster.

[Marrilaife]

My guild did 8/9m last week, without KJ and I can tell you, everything except Maiden is easy if you have a general idea of the fight.
First 3 - freekill.
Sisters - still split your raid for the floor groups. Getting 10+ stacks of the floor hurts. Spinning glaives you can outheal.
Desolate host - don't really worry too much, we even didn't clear armor from the adds and it was fine.
Mistress - careful what you do with the bubble fish. The sharks will probably kill you, but you can run through tornadoes and outheal them or take any other damage you otherwise couldn't (still not recommended to stand in the big flying fish). You can probably not pick the bubble fish at all and be fine.
Avatar - put people in purple beams but it's much less crucial to be perfect with these. Killing maiden early is not that punishing though.
Maiden - omfg people thought they can brute force it. Nope you can't. We wiped for way too long just due to carelessness, people mixing colours, not jumping, not picking the special mythic orb, standing on the tank, you name it. Have a good plan who picks which orbs. You can probably outheal some of them being missed, as long as not too many. You can't outheal bomb explosions. It's 100x more important to be meticulous than fast, the dps check wasn't really hard when the boss was current and it's non existent now, but the 1-shot explosions are still absolutely real if people walk into wrong stuff or each other, jump on top of each other etc. you'll wipe.
Didn't do KJ so no idea, but would bet knockback orbs and p3 pylons are still 1-shot as much as when it was current. It was a dick boss due to all these 1-shots. And he doesn't even drop a mount.

[Reloe]

We recently did a full ToS Mythic run for a salerun with half the group not knowing the strats we did back during progression:

First 3 nothing special just yolo'ing it.
Sisters we didn't assign any groups, just had people trigger on themselves, sometimes got up to 7-8 stacks but that wasn't too bad.
Host we didn't assign groups either, people just assigned themselves, still broke the bone shield though.
Mistress we just full yolo'd on adds, if that meant no slowzone for tornadoes we'd just have a heal cooldown there. Its probably pretty hard with just passive cleave to not kill adds too fast, also don't pick up the bufferfishes its not even worth.
Maiden died with only one transition so we just used the same weakaura for assignments as we did back in progression and that went fairly smooth, rather let orbs go through then soaking a wrong one healers can totally outheal it at this point.

On avatar we wiped a few times because some people were stupid, though when we got to p2 with 20% left he just died during his first rupture so with a perfect p2 you could probably do like 60-70%. P1 has a weird bug where the purple beams would randomly stop without switching no idea what triggered it but we basically just ignored it and continued soaking.

KJ is still a wipe if you miss a soak but it doesn't really matter anymore if you get 2 or even 3stacks so it should be a lot easier to get them all soaked. Just lust in p2 so you're definetly skipping the 2nd dps adds. Have a blood dk for transition and someone that can mark a safespot for last phase. You can still easily wipe on this boss if you haven't progressed it and any mechanic that was a oneshot is still one, only difference is that you can now live through more combos with stacks, dreadflames/orbs and stuff.

[Deleted]

damn i didnt know people were progressing mythic bosses 1-2 tiers ago, blows my mind.

ToS is FACEROLL tho, no bosses require any fancy tactics besides the "dont stand in shit and dont die".

Avatar can be killed in p2, from 100% hp.

KJ can still wipe u, if u fall out the platform. even IF you miss a soak now a days, u can outheal it.

thats about it.

You have no clue. The last 3 bosses can essily insta wipe you. Without a plan you cant kill maiden.

I agree many bosses can be outplayed/geared (e g. Mistress). But some bosses require you to correctly execute mechanics...

- - - Updated - - -

We recently did a full ToS Mythic run for a salerun with half the group not knowing the strats we did back during progression:

First 3 nothing special just yolo'ing it.
Sisters we didn't assign any groups, just had people trigger on themselves, sometimes got up to 7-8 stacks but that wasn't too bad.
Host we didn't assign groups either, people just assigned themselves, still broke the bone shield though.
Mistress we just full yolo'd on adds, if that meant no slowzone for tornadoes we'd just have a heal cooldown there. Its probably pretty hard with just passive cleave to not kill adds too fast, also don't pick up the bufferfishes its not even worth.
Maiden died with only one transition so we just used the same weakaura for assignments as we did back in progression and that went fairly smooth, rather let orbs go through then soaking a wrong one healers can totally outheal it at this point.

On avatar we wiped a few times because some people were stupid, though when we got to p2 with 20% left he just died during his first rupture so with a perfect p2 you could probably do like 60-70%. P1 has a weird bug where the purple beams would randomly stop without switching no idea what triggered it but we basically just ignored it and continued soaking.

KJ is still a wipe if you miss a soak but it doesn't really matter anymore if you get 2 or even 3stacks so it should be a lot easier to get them all soaked. Just lust in p2 so you're definetly skipping the 2nd dps adds. Have a blood dk for transition and someone that can mark a safespot for last phase. You can still easily wipe on this boss if you haven't progressed it and any mechanic that was a oneshot is still one, only difference is that you can now live through more combos with stacks, dreadflames/orbs and stuff.

Your POV is from a raid which already progressed, a raid lead knowing the timings and positions.

For a new raid without any experience, KJ is a learning process, just like maid.

The dps checks dont exist. But decent execution is still important.

I went a 945 TOS hc pug that couldnt kill maid.... the level of retardness can be insane if people dont know mechanics.

[Quag]

Appreciate all the feedback and tips so far, will definitely take the advice to heart and hopefully we can enjoy our gradual progress through the raid over the coming weeks/months.

As stated initially, we never had the expectation that we would just be able to one shot everything, and ofc we did not do this content on mythic when it was current so we will need to learn the fights, but it is good to see that for the majority of the bosses, at least we should not be bothered by the dps checks and can afford to bring an extra healer or two than is completely necessary to make the fights more forgiving while we master the mechanics.

Luckily we will be doing this as a complete guild run and although we are nowhere near a cutting edge mythic pro andgression guild, we should be able to learn the odd tactic or two and not purely rely on brute force!

[Deleted]

Bringing more healers rarely helps. Problem isnt HPS, it is about:

Anyone can wipe you on some bosses. Or if you dont soak, it is a wipe.

Maid was never farm friendly. As was KJ. Avatar was mostly about the tight tuning so FA might be easier than it has been during progress.

[Deleted]

Maiden and KJ are by far the biggest execution checks, irrespective of item level. Higher DPS/HPS/Stamina reduces the length of the fight and makes combos easier to deal with, but ultimately bad execution = wipe, even in fully-decked titan-forged Mythic gear.

In PUG groups, Maiden is the boss where 90% of them just call it a day. I don't think my % estimate is far away from the actual number.

[MrExcelion]

As a guild I'd do first 6 and stop there for awhile. Beyond that it helps to have weakauras (ideally, doable w/o) and some measure of wiping/progression, not worth the hassle right now and people would probably just enjoy doing something else with their free time. Though without being able to complete mogs that does kind of defeat the point, though getting T20 is nice for some classes still and you'd be able to unlock mythic caches with 2 weeks of 6 kills

[Heyitsmilz]

Everything up to Host/Mistress can be muscled through with gear. However, once you guys start getting past them, mechanics are tuned heavy for the next bosses making it easy to wipe if most of the raid doesn't know what they're doing, even with the extra dps. It's still a lot easier with all the Antorus gear, but I would definitely look up the fights before heading in there blind, at least mistress and on.