1. #3441
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Mahomes stats is in no small part also due to his turnovers putting his defense in a bad position and the crappiness of his defense in general. He basically has to keep scoring while Brees can take off part of the 4th cause he's ahead.
    Saying Mahomes has to throw more because he's putting his defense in bad spots is a preposterous take, he's averaging 1 turnover per game and they are scoring a ton on everyone. They have to score a ton
    because their defense stinks out loud. Brees is also bottom 6 in Average Air Yards, because he's checking down more than he ever has in his career, hence you would expect an extremely high completion % and very few interceptions.
    Last edited by ramayana1423; 2018-11-21 at 03:47 PM.

  2. #3442
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramayana1423 View Post
    Saying Mahomes has to throw more because he's putting his defense in bad spots is a preposterous take, he's averaging 1 turnover per game and they are scoring a ton on everyone. They have to score a ton
    because their defense stinks out loud.
    That's what I said, his defense is crappy in general and he adds to that by averaging a turnover per game. I guess you wanted me to turn around the order in which I mentioned it? I guess it does kinda read that his turnovers are the main part and the defensive crappiness the lesser part, but that's obviously not the case. My bad.

  3. #3443
    If the season were to end today (or keep progression as is), there's no way Mahomes wins the MVP over Brees. Voter sentiment wouldn't allow it.

    There's no chance they choose a 2nd year QB who doesn't have hands-down better stats than an established, elite QB and leader who happens to be a 1st-ballot HOFer--and who happens to be known as an all-around great guy who has kept himself out of trouble his entire career. Mahomes' time will come (maybe), but it's not this year unless a major statistical disparity forms between the two of them, in his favor.

    Brees is just flat-out more impressive. The completion percentage, the lack of mistakes--not just reflected in his 1 int. He ranks almost dead last in dangerous/bad throws (Rodgers has him beat), so he isn't getting lucky, he's just playing sound football. He isn't doing anything that would be considered a contribution to a loss. Yes, Mahomes does far more good than bad, but he just gave the ball away 5 times, 2 of which were instantly turned into points. Brees isn't doing that (obviously).

    And Brees isn't checking the ball down. A checkdown is a last option throw to a RB. The Saints play design involves shorter throws at times. The Saints offense, under Sean Payton, has always had a nasty screen game and ability to insert a RB into the passing game, and it's exaggerated more now that they have a stud pass catcher in Kamara. Brees gets rid of the ball nearly a half-second faster than anyone else in the NFL--that's not because he's going through every progression and checking down. I don't think the checkdown comment was meant as a bad thing, but Brees isn't doing what Eli does when we talk about a 'checkdown pass'.

    Brees is only in the middle of the league in terms of deep passes, but ranks 3rd in completion percentage on them--he's still an elite deep ball thrower when he needs to be. He's the MVP--hands down. It's not even close.
    Last edited by Espo; 2018-11-21 at 05:46 PM.

  4. #3444
    Quote Originally Posted by Espo View Post
    If the season were to end today (or keep progression as is), there's no way Mahomes wins the MVP over Brees. Voter sentiment wouldn't allow it.

    There's no chance they choose a 2nd year QB who doesn't have hands-down better stats than an established, elite QB and leader who happens to be a 1st-ballot HOFer--and who happens to be known as an all-around great guy who has kept himself out of trouble his entire career. Mahomes' time will come (maybe), but it's not this year unless a major statistical disparity forms between the two of them, in his favor.

    Brees is just flat-out more impressive. The completion percentage, the lack of mistakes--not just reflected in his 1 int. He ranks almost dead last in dangerous/bad throws (Rodgers has him beat), so he isn't getting lucky, he's just playing sound football. He isn't doing anything that would be considered a contribution to a loss. Yes, Mahomes does far more good than bad, but he just gave the ball away 5 times, 2 of which were instantly turned into points. Brees isn't doing that (obviously).

    And Brees isn't checking the ball down. A checkdown is a last option throw to a RB. The Saints play design involves shorter throws at times. The Saints offense, under Sean Payton, has always had a nasty screen game and ability to insert a RB into the passing game, and it's exaggerated more now that they have a stud pass catcher in Kamara. Brees gets rid of the ball nearly a half-second faster than anyone else in the NFL--that's not because he's going through every progression and checking down. I don't think the checkdown comment was meant as a bad thing, but Brees isn't doing what Eli does when we talk about a 'checkdown pass'.

    Brees is only in the middle of the league in terms of deep passes, but ranks 3rd in completion percentage on them--he's still an elite deep ball thrower when he needs to be. He's the MVP--hands down. It's not even close.
    If Mahomes finishes over 5000 yards and 50 TDs he's winning it, assuming both Saints and Chiefs win out, which they both have a good chance of doing. You are right, I didn't mean the checkdown comment as an insult, I should've said throwing underneath, but it's just fact that he's throwing more short passes than ever, like I said he's sixth from the bottom in average air yards. Also, not all QB turnovers are the fault of the QB, being stripped from the blindside is tough to blame a QB for, same when a ball is picked after they get hit on the arm from behind. Brees line has been insane this year, and the amount of quick plays they run results in him rarely being under pressure, let alone even being touched, which obviously will result in less turnovers. Chiefs D is also flat out terrible and the Saints D has been solid all year outside of inexplicably giving up 48 points to the Bucs in week 1, so they have really relied on Mahomes going nuts almost every week.

  5. #3445
    Quote Originally Posted by ramayana1423 View Post
    If Mahomes finishes over 5000 yards and 50 TDs he's winning it, assuming both Saints and Chiefs win out, which they both have a good chance of doing. You are right, I didn't mean the checkdown comment as an insult, I should've said throwing underneath, but it's just fact that he's throwing more short passes than ever, like I said he's sixth from the bottom in average air yards. Also, not all QB turnovers are the fault of the QB, being stripped from the blindside is tough to blame a QB for, same when a ball is picked after they get hit on the arm from behind. Brees line has been insane this year, and the amount of quick plays they run results in him rarely being under pressure, let alone even being touched, which obviously will result in less turnovers. Chiefs D is also flat out terrible and the Saints D has been solid all year outside of inexplicably giving up 48 points to the Bucs in week 1, so they have really relied on Mahomes going nuts almost every week.
    If you think the Saints D has been 'solid all year' then I'm not sure you've watched the games. They are better than the Chiefs D no question but they have some glaring issues against the pass and gave up a ton of points to the Bucs, Rams, Falcons. Though I will admit the defense has looked great the past 2 weeks and I hope they are getting back into the groove they had going last year.

    In 2011 Brees set the passing yards record with 5,476 (which was later broken) threw 46 TDs and still lost the MVP that year. Yards and TDs aren't EVERYTHING in the mvp race, turnovers seem to play a big part as well. If Mahomes goes 5,000 yards and 50 TDs assuming Brees stays on his pace then Mahomes won't win it. Still a lot of football to played however. 8 days from now we'll have an even better idea as Brees has 2 thursday games in a row coming up.

  6. #3446
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    Brees has led the league in yards 7 times and TDs 4 times (both 3 times) which is why if leading the league in those numbers suddenly becomes the MVP factor I will be even more bitter.
    /s

  7. #3447
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    which is why if leading the league in those numbers suddenly becomes the MVP factor I will be even more bitter.
    It only is when that player is the media favorite. There is a chunk of the voters that probably never watch, or even pay attention, to teams outside of the ones they cover, then another portion are the hot take artists on large networks (there was a decent amount of ESPN employees for 2017 for example) so it is pretty easy to see why the voters tend to miss it as often as they do.

  8. #3448
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    Sounds like Trubisky isn't going to be playing tomorrow. Time for the Lions to steal yet another random game against a playoff contender.
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  9. #3449
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    Chase Daniel is competent enough if the defense keeps it up.
    /s

  10. #3450
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    Lions get a golden opportunity and they are pissing it away with pre-snap penalties.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Sheesh, Lions get away with one there. 4th and 1, they go for it, ball gets batted up in the air by LB Trevathan and somehow a Lion comes down with it, instead of the more likely interception.

  11. #3451
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    Blount in the passing game, that's unusual. Well done.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hell of a pick 6 by the Bears. Just outplayed. I was liking the Lions chances, but not so much anymore.

  12. #3452
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    Give Mahomes some credit. Not many quarterbacks can throw two game-losing interceptions in the same game.
    Stafford is giving it a go.
    /s

  13. #3453
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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    Stafford is giving it a go.
    I'd probably blame him for one. That pick six was just good defense.
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  14. #3454
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    I'd probably blame him for one. That pick six was just good defense.

    Ehhh, no way. Short of bad receiver play (tipping balls, running incorrect routes), a QB always shares blame on an interception.

    And if anything, those interceptions are the opposite of what you're describing.

    End zone int: Stafford throws a corner route, to the place where his receiver is supposed to be. Post-throw, his receiver barely looks for the ball and lets himself get jammed by the DB, who subsequently pushes himself to the ball spot by doing this. While this is still on Stafford a bit, far more blame is on whoever his intended target was, who ran a lazy ass route and wasn't paying attention. Nod to the DB for a good jam and getting a bit lucky that his jam actually pushed him to the ball. A better defensive play than the pick six--made a play on the receiver and the ball.

    The pick six: This was 95% Stafford and 5% Jackson. Great job by Jackson in reading the route, but from start of the snap Stafford stared down his receiver. Jackson started running over to the receiver almost immediately and Stafford still threw it. This is the textbook definition of a QB being to blame for an int. Garbage QB play.
    Last edited by Espo; 2018-11-22 at 09:55 PM.

  15. #3455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espo View Post
    The pick six: This was 95% Stafford and 5% Jackson. Great job by Jackson in reading the route, but from start of the snap Stafford stared down his receiver. Jackson started running over to the receiver almost immediately and Stafford still threw it. This is the textbook definition of a QB being to blame for an int. Garbage QB play.
    It was a textbook pick six, stare down an outside route and the corner jumps it.

    Bonus points for it being a predictable hot route with pressure on the play.
    /s

  16. #3456
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    Some of Daks underthrows would look bad in college teams.

  17. #3457
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    Pretty sure Jerrah's going to pound his chest about his fantastic trade for Amari Cooper after this game.

  18. #3458
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    Yeesh, Dix turning a decent completion into a 90 yard TD with pure shittiness.
    /s

  19. #3459
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Pretty sure Jerrah's going to pound his chest about his fantastic trade for Amari Cooper after this game.
    Lol--exactly what I was thinking. Those 2 plays that were completely blown tackling that any pedestrian receiver could have made, but good ol Jerrah will act like its all Cooper and that trade.

    But this is all a good thing. It's games like this, and maybe the Cowboys making the playoffs that keep him delusional and keep him holding onto Garret and Dak. That's great news for everyone else.

  20. #3460
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    What a duck by Colt, I thought he might make something of this chance to start, but it looks like he'll be right back to backup duty at season's end.
    /s

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