i hope they pull the plug on pvp in bfa for good

[Darkeon]

I like the changes to PvP that have been announced. And, instead of diminishing resources to cater the already over-catered raiders, I would like to see the PvP field being better handled and managed, in the future, than it has been in past.

[The Penguin]

And characters will hold hands and sing kumbaya? That's sound like a ideal world for these "hardcore" pvers.

In an ideal world those Hardcore PVPers go back to Call of Duty.

[Maneo]

Agreed, they need to stop wasting resources on PvP. Just scrap the whole thing.

I know it is wrong of me to say cause other people enjoy it.

For me personally though it would make me sooooo happy and a lot of the toxicity of WoW would leave.

[Shakou]

Just because you don't like PvP doesn't mean others don't as well.

MMO PvP is very fun for many people, they just need to figure out how to make it work better.

They just need to make it so that new players are segregated to their own realm until they pass some trials or some shit. There are far too many people who are not only new to wow but new to gaming in general that queue for bgs and such, it's not fun losing all the time because you're stuck playing with people who do not even know how to play the game OR know how to pvp in general who also refuse to listen to people who don't suck. So even normal bgs should have some kind of ranking system so I don't get stuck with some shit tier warrior that doesn't even know how to cast mortal strike let alone pummel, and would be utterly confused if someone told him to peel off the heals.

We simply can't count on people to not PVP when they know they are complete shit and make no mistake, if your skill level at this game is so bad that you literally would slow down the quest progress of people you group with you should be disbarred from pvp 100%.

[MixelPlx]

World PvP was some of my fondest moments in Vanilla/BC.
If you don't like PvP, don't activate it in BFA or participate in it thru BG's.
Pretty simple solution

[Shakou]

I know it is wrong of me to say cause other people enjoy it.

For me personally though it would make me sooooo happy and a lot of the toxicity of WoW would leave.

You people are flat out nuts. YOU are the cancer. YOU. You people that want to kill the majority of players fun. You can go play something else. The vast majority of people who play wow love to pvp, especially in comparison to people who do nothing but quest, or people who raid at all.

[Torto]

Is it supposed to be stick dudes????

Tears....streaming down my face watching this. This was brilliant thank you.

[Maneo]

You people are flat out nuts. YOU are the cancer. YOU. You people that want to kill the majority of players fun. You can go play something else. The vast majority of people who play wow love to pvp, especially in comparison to people who do nothing but quest, or people who raid at all.

Stats say otherwise. I would be willing to bet that Pet Battles see more willing participation then WPVP does.

Most toxic players I have ever met have been RAWR PVP types

[caffeiine]

I was a big fan of both Wintergrasp and Tolbarad, i think this would infinitely get world pvp going again, i never understood why they didnt make those a standard, have pve instanced behind pvp.

[Deleted]

I still really enjoy BG's. I can come back after a few months and still be able to participate and even dominate on any of my chars without spending weeks farming and forcing myself to do Arena to be competitive because the magic gear number went up while I was gone. Hell I can play any of my classes specs without having to spend time / gold re-gearing and having to assign storage space for that gear which is really amazing I think.

BG's has always been my favourite content in WoW even though most see it as a lesser activity, I only wish that prestige levels was account wide so I could play on alts without feeling like I am missing out and I honestly feel this expansion has been my favourite.

[Kreeshak]

Because PvP should be about skill, not about gear.

This logic is what killed WOW pvp.

It might be acceptable in other games like counter strike or dota or lol, but it doesn't work in MMORPGs.

PVP should be BOTH about skill and gear. That's better.

[Hoehenflug]

Actually, Blizzard should use the recent development in the PvP Scene. MOBAS and PUBG are losing popularity and people are striving for new platforms. Most of them tried WoW and would give it a shot if PvP was really, really good as it could offer a niche of rich lore, character development and character customization. It should also be promoted heavily then.

That said, Blizzard should ultimately expand on large scale BG's again and offer a similiar skill and talent system to GW2 which is imo rather underrated.

Gear difference is not a real problem, Vanilla and pServers prove that. I experienced moments like: 'Okay, this Undead Grand Marshal Rogue 'XY' I know from the last games. I should ask people in Chat to def the Towers 'cause that's where he's usually going and I can't beat him.' It didn't frustrate me, it inspired me to play more. To be as good. But in the meantime, I can make a difference by killing the random in Mines'.

Also a common misconception is that you when you start with the same skills [as in Overwatch/LoL etc.] it still doesnt't mean you can realistically be as good as people like progamers cause you are simply not as talented or can't invest as much time into these games. There's always a difference in player performance and actually imo it doesn't matter if those are due to skill, gear, time, talent. What really matters in the end is that you have nothing to aspire to because there is only one difference in player performance as of yet: you zerg or you go for objectives. And in the end it won't matter if you try to go for the Flag and 9 ppl just do nothing, while you get ganked by three. And even if you somehow manage to actually capture it. Literally nobody will notice or care, especially not the current system. And don't even get me started on the PvE Pinata AV has become.

Arena Focus should be stopped. People can't immerse into 'wall hugging in a claustrophia-inducing cube'.

[Kreeshak]

Actually, Blizzard should use the recent development in the PvP Scene. MOBAS and PUBG are losing popularity and people are striving for new platforms. Most of them tried WoW and would give it a shot if PvP was really, really good as it could offer a niche of rich lore, character development and character customization. It should also be promoted heavily then.

That said, Blizzard should ultimately expand on large scale BG's again and offer a similiar skill and talent system to GW2 which is imo rather underrated.

Gear difference is not a real problem, Vanilla and pServers prove that. I experienced moments like: 'Okay, this Undead Grand Marshal Rogue 'XY' I know from the last games. I should ask people in Chat to def the Towers 'cause that's where he's usually going and I can't beat him.' It didn't frustrate me, it inspired me to play more. To be as good. But in the meantime, I can make a difference by killing the random in Mines'.

Also a common misconception is that you when you start with the same skills [as in Overwatch/LoL etc.] it still doesnt't mean you can realistically be as good as people like progamers cause you are simply not as talented or can't invest as much time into these games. There's always a difference in player performance and actually imo it doesn't matter if those are due to skill, gear, time, talent. What really matters in the end is that you have nothing to aspire to because there is only one difference in player performance as of yet: you zerg or you go for objectives. And in the end it won't matter if you try to go for the Flag and 9 ppl just do nothing, while you get ganked by three. And even if you somehow manage to actually capture it. Literally nobody will notice or care, especially not the current system. And don't even get me started on the PvE Pinata AV has become.

Arena Focus should be stopped. People can't immerse into 'wall hugging in a claustrophia-inducing cube'.

Agree with everything.

Also if I may add, in games that gear did matter, there was a strong correlation between geared player being skilled and skilled players being geared.

It was very rare that someone was geared and bad, or that someone was skilled and not geared.

Makes me wonder how this minority prevailed in wow.

[Jngizu]

Agree with everything.

Also if I may add, in games that gear did matter, there was a strong correlation between geared player being skilled and skilled players being geared.

It was very rare that someone was geared and bad, or that someone was skilled and not geared.

Makes me wonder how this minority prevailed in wow.

Because in WoW, getting gear was just a matter of grinding, not being good. It's the same system in Legion. If you spam m+5, eventually, you'll get Titanforged.

Also GW used the system of equal gear, and its PvP was miles ahead of everything that ever happened in WoW. I know people don't like to hear it, but it's the truth. People that want gear as rewards in PvP is because they want to show off and farm ungeared players. The really really good PvP players, do not care about gear, because they would still own your ass, even wearing whites.

But anyway, I made my points already. Blizzard, more than anything, should decide what they want to do with PvP. For the past few expansions, it feels like they had 0 plan and tried a bunch of random things.

[endersblade]

I think they need to go the route Guild Wars went. PvP and PvE completely separate. One set of abilities for each, little to no overlaps. That would allow much better balance tweaking for each. I've been preaching this since fucking Vanilla but nobody listens. PvP servers are exactly that - PvP ONLY. No PvE capabilities at all. And same the other way around.

PvP servers could be completely revamped, and 100% different from PvE. Zones/castles/etc to capture and fight for, and you level by PvP. You get gear from PvP. Everything about the server is PvP. This would stop the QQ about people gearing in PvP and using it in PvE, and the QQ about top tier raiders going into PvP and raping noobs. They could hold all sorts of events, guilds could fight each other for dominance, the list goes on.

You want to do both PvE and PvP? Then roll a char on each server. You can't have both PvE and PvP on one character. Pointless anyway. Character transfers to and from PvP servers to PvE are prevented entirely.

This would allow them to go hog wild on making PvP more viable. They have their hands tied as it is, because what affects one affects the other. We've seen this countless times, nerfs happening in PvE because someone figured out how to get rapey with it in PvP.

[Kreeshak]

Because in WoW, getting gear was just a matter of grinding, not being good.

That's true. However there is nothing wrong with that. You said yourself, the really really good PVP players would still own your ass, even wearing whites. So I fail to see the problem if you actually attach a carrot on a stick to greatly increase PVP participation.

Out of the two evils, which is preferable? To have a massive number of players participating at the cost of a small injustice? Or a massive decline in numbers in the name of skill justice and discrimination?

It's the same system in Legion. If you spam m+5, eventually, you'll get Titanforged.

It's not. With the addition of templates the item power gap or difference was the smallest it has ever been in entire history of the game. To give you some context in previous expansions a well geared player could solo a few enemies easily. That's not the case anymore in Legion. Legion was very different everyone had the same stats more or less and everyone looked very similar to another as if we played LOL or DOTA, with a different camera angle.

People that want gear as rewards in PvP is because they want to show off and farm ungeared players.

While this is not false, it is not true either. Most of the people that want gear as rewards in PVP is because they want to feel the joy of progression and reward for their commitment. Putting effort and being rewarded is human nature. Would people go to work if they didn't get rewarded money for their effort? Would people go to the gym, if they didn't get rewarded with muscles or abs? Would people care to get qualifications if there weren't better jobs and better lifestyles? Doing something because it is exciting and fun, is not attractive to the masses and gets boring fast. Sooner or later you do it for different reasons, as in to gain something out of it.

The really really good PvP players, do not care about gear, because they would still own your ass, even wearing whites.

Correct. So why remove it? Because some bad players are looking for excuses for their incompetence?

Finally and historically if I may add, the first concerns about gear were raised after the first few balance patches and expansions. When new classes become stronger, rerollers were at a serious disadvantage against dedicated players, gear wise. They had to grind the gear and suffer until they were able to win.

Considering the above, why is the reroller ethically superior and an acceptable way to gain advantage over someone, and a dedicated player who has invested time to progress his character to get an advantage is discriminated? Isn't that double standards and hypocrisy?

[Craaazyyy]

The template changes didn't kill PvP.

M+ killed PvP.

none of that killed pvp.. pvp is dead cuz the game is not fun to play, class design is terrible and the game is straight up not enjoyable to play

gearing system and templates definitely made it even worse.. pvp gear should be pvp gear and should be better than pve gear for pvp in almost every way.. gear should definitely matter in pvp too.. old system with pvp gear and with resilience was perfectly fine.. but as we know blizzard like to fix things that werent broken


M+ has nothing to do with pvp being dead

- - - Updated - - -

Because in WoW, getting gear was just a matter of grinding, not being good. It's the same system in Legion. If you spam m+5, eventually, you'll get Titanforged.

The really really good PvP players, do not care about gear, because they would still own your ass, even wearing whites.

first back in the days u needed certain ratings to get certain items.. like t1-2 weapon, shoulders etc. so you needed to be atleast okay at the game

second part is completely untrue.. alot of really really good pvpers care about gear

also the very last part you said isnt true in legion.. you cant win with whites.. not anymore, the game is too easy in pvp these days so the difference between really good and bad players isnt as big cuz you dont have the tools to outplay other players.. thats why really good players can lose to bad players on the ladder at times(that was impossible in wrath/cata/mop), now its close to impossible to still win with 0 gear even against complete noobs

[Kreeshak]

none of that killed pvp.. pvp is dead cuz the game is not fun to play, class design is terrible and the game is straight up not enjoyable to play

gearing system and templates definitely made it even worse.. pvp gear should be pvp gear and should be better than pve gear for pvp in almost every way.. gear should definitely matter in pvp too.. old system with pvp gear and with resilience was perfectly fine.. but as we know blizzard like to fix things that werent broken


M+ has nothing to do with pvp being dead

Agreed. Fun is the most important factor to play something. But when fun becomes stagnate carrot on a stick helps a lot.

[Jngizu]

Correct. So why remove it? Because some bad players are looking for excuses for their incompetence?

Finally and historically if I may add, the first concerns about gear were raised after the first few balance patches and expansions. When new classes become stronger, rerollers were at a serious disadvantage against dedicated players, gear wise. They had to grind the gear and suffer until they were able to win.

Considering the above, why is the reroller ethically superior and an acceptable way to gain advantage over someone, and a dedicated player who has invested time to progress his character to get an advantage is discriminated? Isn't that double standards and hypocrisy?

First, if it was a back-handed attack, you can do better than that. Second, remove it, because between two players of similar skill level, what will make the difference is their gear. Which is stupid in a PvP setting. Now, you obviously are from the idea that gear matters in PvP, so for you, of course it should. For me, PvP should be about skill. A system where a player can overcome his lack of skill by grinding easy tasks to get gear is a bad system in my book.

So, no, there is nothing hypocritical with people wanting equal grounds in PvP. They are just from a different ideology than you. One where your titles, ranks, and skill, are enough progression. I just find it baffling that people think the only meaningful progression is gear. Give PvP players special emotes or titles. Things that are fucking cool, but where you need to be good to get them. Like a title where you need to win x-matches at 2k4+ (those might already exist, I don't really follow PvP as I think it's garbage in WoW).

I'm just giving my opinion as to why I don't do PvP in this game, although I have a huge background in PvP games. It's just not fun. Even if top gear was in PvP, I wouldn't do it. So yeah, we're talking about all the systems etc, but the real problem of PvP is that it's just not fun at all.

[Kreeshak]

So, no, there is nothing hypocritical with people wanting equal grounds in PvP.

On the case I described, when they reroll, they DON'T want equal grounds. They want to have the class that is the most powerful.

Second, remove it, because between two players of similar skill level, what will make the difference is their gear. Which is stupid in a PvP setting.

Only that it is not. It is not as if one player is sabotaging or handicapping the other's players EQUAL AND FAIR opportunity to acquire said gear.

Give PvP players special emotes or titles. Things that are fucking cool, but where you need to be good to get them.

That's exactly what they did in LEGION. Statistically the lowest PVP participation in the whole history of the game.