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  1. #181
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    Yes and yes.
    how much has the topic of accessibilizing classic, even to 3.0 levels, come up? You have seen the blue posts talking about feelings and classic means something different for everyone. these aren't the blue posts of a company planning on a literal classic release.

    why are blue posts talking feelings and changes and qol features?
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, WM Hodgson, Fredrick Brown, Robert SheckleyJohn Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Stephen R Donaldon, and Jack L Chalker.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    how much has the topic of accessibilizing classic, even to 3.0 levels, come up? You have seen the blue posts talking about feelings and classic means something different for everyone. these aren't the blue posts of a company planning on a literal classic release.

    why are blue posts talking feelings and changes and qol features?
    They aren't. Not really. They are masters of misdirection and that's just what they accomplished with the 2-3 statements they have made. Feed the animals some obscure comments that they can chew on and argue about until you announce the release date.

    Keep in mind that NONE of the positions posted by Blizz for Classic were graphic or programming related... only a VERY small number of server/infrastructure guys. That alone tells me all I need to know.

  3. #183
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    They aren't. Not really. They are masters of misdirection and that's just what they accomplished with the 2-3 statements they have made. Feed the animals some obscure comments that they can chew on and argue about until you announce the release date.

    Keep in mind that NONE of the positions posted by Blizz for Classic were graphic or programming related... only a VERY small number of server/infrastructure guys. That alone tells me all I need to know.
    I don't have an issue actually being wrong when details finally leak or beta starts - that would be a win, I actually would prefer authentic classic than any frankenstein or nerfed product.

    I just don't see how blizzard puts this one past the a/b accessibility cerberus.
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, WM Hodgson, Fredrick Brown, Robert SheckleyJohn Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Stephen R Donaldon, and Jack L Chalker.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    They aren't. Not really. They are masters of misdirection and that's just what they accomplished with the 2-3 statements they have made. Feed the animals some obscure comments that they can chew on and argue about until you announce the release date.

    Keep in mind that NONE of the positions posted by Blizz for Classic were graphic or programming related... only a VERY small number of server/infrastructure guys. That alone tells me all I need to know.
    You're looking way into this. There will be changed, and you'll cry like a baby back bitch, and i'm going to love it.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    is bold speculation or factual knowledge?
    Head in the clouds syndrome. Blizzard wouldn’t spend time and money recreating Vanilla to the T for a handful of purist nerds. They actually want people to play this.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puxycat View Post
    Do you know the game Red Alert 2? I still play that game time to time to this day. If you have no idea about that game let me give you few tips:
    Game is extremely unbalanced yet so much fun to play.
    Because you can't understand doesn't mean people would not like classic as it is.
    What? So you want unbalanced classes in classic wow?

  7. #187
    I say if they want it 'raw' as they say, give it to them. That includes randomly turning servers off for hours/days at a time a few times a month, outside of maintenance to simulate server instability.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by element zero View Post
    Head in the clouds syndrome. Blizzard wouldn’t spend time and money recreating Vanilla when they can just release it as is.
    Fixed that for you.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidfromsteamwheedlecarte View Post
    What? So you want unbalanced classes in classic wow?
    I want Classic WoW, not some lookalike.

    Also classes were never 100% balanced to begin with in the entire game.

    1.12 wasn't the feeling of entire Vanilla either, it lasted only 4 months.
    Last edited by Teri; 2018-03-20 at 12:13 PM.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by skidfromsteamwheedlecarte View Post
    What? So you want unbalanced classes in classic wow?
    Yes. I want the classes designed around fun, not changed to meet crybabies who lament: "Waaaa... my class underperforms 7% less than class X!"

    I don't care about underperformance... if they had blocked dps meters like they should have... you would not KNOW if you were 7% under another class and would only moan about how the class FELT... I want to enjoy vanilla exactly the way it was.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teri View Post
    I want Classic WoW, not some lookalike.

    Also classes were never 100% balanced to begin with in the entire game.

    1.12 wasn't the feeling of Vanilla either, it lasted only 4 months.
    Exactly... the more they try and make the classes perform the same, the more they are homogenized into playing the same.

    The classes used to take into consideration the UTILITY each had... these kids today don't remember any of that because Blizz removed it all.

    The game and dungeon/raid encounters were infinitely more interesting with CC, threat tables, mana/rage issues.

    Seriously.. people complained about letting the warrior get his sunders in? Why? Their ADHD would not allow them to wait... it wasn't "fun" to wait a few seconds while the tank actually got the attention of the mean old monster.

    CC? Oh noes! Terrible mechanic because the ADHD riddled kids could not be bothered to remove their AoE from their "peak DPS rotation".

    Healers cannot be bothered to heal pets, mana needed to go away... now it's just a pretty blue bar for asthetics.

    This game is GROSS compared to what it was in Vanilla/BC/Wrath. Keep Classic the way it was.
    Last edited by Maudib; 2018-03-20 at 12:20 PM.

  11. #191
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    CC? Oh noes! Terrible mechanic because the ADHD riddled kids could not be bothered to remove their AoE from their "peak DPS rotation".
    I remember (2.4?) when blizzard made several multi-target abilities start ignoring cc'ed targets - avenging shield, the hunter multishot, to name 2.
    Part of using those abilities with cc active was knowing when not to use them.

    trapping was 'easy' once you learned but had a real and stressful learning curve to get there.

    I just don't see them letting all those skill-driven requirements stay in. I don't even see threat being allowed to remain as-was, unless the mobs you pull threat on have tickle and giggle as their main attacks (like retail in many cases)

    This isn't Vivendi's Blizzard, and it isn't 2004.
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, WM Hodgson, Fredrick Brown, Robert SheckleyJohn Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Stephen R Donaldon, and Jack L Chalker.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    I remember (2.4?) when blizzard made several multi-target abilities start ignoring cc'ed targets - avenging shield, the hunter multishot, to name 2.
    Part of using those abilities with cc active was knowing when not to use them.

    trapping was 'easy' once you learned but had a real and stressful learning curve to get there.

    I just don't see them letting all those skill-driven requirements stay in. I don't even see threat being allowed to remain as-was, unless the mobs you pull threat on have tickle and giggle as their main attacks (like retail in many cases)

    This isn't Vivendi's Blizzard, and it isn't 2004.
    Yep... you want current WoW then. Skill was skill thn... now it's just rotation. Breaking CC? How about not using AoE when there are CCd mobs around? How about not dotting up a target because you mindlessly tab targeted? Nah that is just too hardz for current WoW.

    I remember pulling a mob away from a pack and sheeping it. I also remember tanks that waited til CC was out and PULLING the free mobs away. But again.. .THAT is too hard... we must instead just all run in, stack up and AoE. Yuk.... You have that game now.. please keep it.

    The point is... vanilla WAS all that and we want it. If you don't, don't play it... simply load up live and have a ball.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    Yep... you want current WoW then. Breaking CC? How about not using AoE when there are CCd mobs around? How about not dotting up a target because you mindlessly tab targeted? Nah that is just too hardz for current WoW..
    The hardest thing about trapping as a hunter was not being able to be spell hit capped, so just wiping 8% of the time when your trap failed. At least that was fixed in TBC being able to gem for spell hit and use that gear in dungeons.

    All this talk about having to not AOE is ridiculous since hardly any classes even had any AOE abilities, and you never AOEd much anyway because tanks couldn't put out enough threat to reliably allow you to. Everything was kill skull, x, star in order.

    Dungeons are much harder now than they were then. By that I mean M+ dungeons with affixes.

    Skill was skill thn... now it's just rotation.
    Absolute horse shit.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    The hardest thing about trapping as a hunter was not being able to be spell hit capped, so just wiping 8% of the time when your trap failed. At least that was fixed in TBC being able to gem for spell hit and use that gear in dungeons.

    All this talk about having to not AOE is ridiculous since hardly any classes even had any AOE abilities, and you never AOEd much anyway because tanks couldn't put out enough threat to reliably allow you to. Everything was kill skull, x, star in order.

    Dungeons are much harder now than they were then. By that I mean M+ dungeons with affixes.



    Absolute horse shit.
    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Yep... having a CC spell resist was a thing... a part of the game that required some skill to recover from. Now the game is dumbed down... no threat, no CC, no misses, just mash 3 buttons and "SCORE!" What a joke of a game this has become.

    Mythic+? LOL Combatting an infinitely increasing level of difficulty of the same encounter over and over again isn't content... it's mindless drivel. It isn;t a test of skill... it's a test of whether you can mash the same 3 buttons for a longer period of time, or whether you have enough gear to defeat the instance before you wear out those 3 buttons.

    As I said. You have live if you think THAT is a skillfest. Good on you... I truly an glad you have such a game to play. Me? I'll take Vanilla over ti any day.... that was a GAME.

  15. #195
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    The hardest thing about trapping as a hunter was not being able to be spell hit capped, so just wiping 8% of the time when your trap failed. At least that was fixed in TBC being able to gem for spell hit and use that gear in dungeons.

    All this talk about having to not AOE is ridiculous since hardly any classes even had any AOE abilities, and you never AOEd much anyway because tanks couldn't put out enough threat to reliably allow you to. Everything was kill skull, x, star in order.

    Dungeons are much harder now than they were then. By that I mean M+ dungeons with affixes.



    Absolute horse shit.
    re trapping as a huntar(d), it probabaly was a 1-3 month curve (maybe less, this was obv. a long time ago) for me to fully fit all the pieces together (early bc) on how to properly trap and rarely double trap in dungeons. Was it really that obvious to you the minute you loaded up a hunter EXACTLY what needed to be done and not done?

    in the end i just dropped trap focused the target, attacked focus with distracting shot, and assisted the tank from there. there wasn't actually a guide that I was aware of at that time telling me to do that, it was mostly figured out trial and error. was my first (and only) mmo so take that into consideration.

    maybe I am just dense but then so are a lot of other people cuz there were some hunters that had no idea how to do it.

    are dungeons at appropriate gear level really harder now than bc heroics (or SOME bc heroics, like H. durnholde or shatt. halls.?) Question is quite serious, I have no idea. take into consideration changed mechanics and abilities too. is threat still an important mechanic in dungeons? cc?
    Last edited by Deficineiron; 2018-03-20 at 07:52 PM.
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, WM Hodgson, Fredrick Brown, Robert SheckleyJohn Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Stephen R Donaldon, and Jack L Chalker.

  16. #196
    And now what does a hunter do? tee hee.... just pew pew the target with 3 buttons.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    I get it, you don't like Classic. You are entitled to that, but please understand that Classic means Classic, with all the good things, and the bad ones as well. Altering gameplay makes it no longer Classic, it defeats the point of those servers in the first place.
    QoL changes have NOTHING to do with "altering" gameplay.

    I can live with feeding pets, but there's no "gameplay" in farming shards, or having to remember arrows or apply poisons/buffs every 30 seconds or other non-sense things i cannot remember now. These things have nothing to do with gameplay, they are simply NOT fun and a plain waste of time.

  18. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidfromsteamwheedlecarte View Post
    I see in vanilla wow community stating that they want classic to not be touched as it gives a true "vanilla experience"
    You guys are joking, right?

    There are many bugs in the game that were not intended, yet it gave an illusion to the players that it was a mechanic blizzard wanted.

    If you want true vanilla experience, that means no class balance, either? Yea good luck with that.

    I am pro for changes for classic realms, such changes are only for life improvements.

    Buffing whole raid every couple of mins? No thanks.
    Running 5 min From a long distance graveyard to the corpse? Nope.
    Small things that are annoying should be improved.

    Yup we want the vanilla experience. Not sure why this is so hard for you to get. People like myself have been asking for this for years. We played on vanilla realms for years because we want vanilla. We don't want vanilla plus. We want vanilla. This is why if Blizzard changes stuff they're going to open up a can of worms that they can never close again. Because if they change things NO ONE will be satisified. Youll have people who are asking why blank was changed, but blank wasn't. Or why do blank but not blank. When will blank be changed too? Where as if they give us vanilla as it was, then no complaints will be valid as they're giving us exactly what we asked for.

    Because no one was unified in asking for vanilla servers but with changes. So yeah I'll definitely take the buffing of the raid every couple of minutes. And I played a paladin who raided, I had to deal with 5 minute blessings. Yet I still am fine with that, because that's vanilla.

  19. #199
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    QoL changes have NOTHING to do with "altering" gameplay.

    I can live with feeding pets, but there's no "gameplay" in farming shards, or having to remember arrows or apply poisons/buffs every 30 seconds or other non-sense things i cannot remember now. These things have nothing to do with gameplay, they are simply NOT fun and a plain waste of time.
    you wont' get much agreement on this thread, but it is worth it for everyone to realize this is the attitude a/b has in fact catered to. One EXPECTS a/b customers to agree with this poster.

    essentially, many people do not care about RPG elements in this game.

    individually, each minute item (hunter ammo, enchant in person, etc) can be torn down and declared irrelevant and a waste of time - and this attitude can be and has been taken to even greater, almost absurd extremes - like eliminating the ranged slot for most classes? it is a waste of time anyway, so why keep it.

    In aggregate, these small 'rules' define a lot of the player interaction with the game and each other in wow.
    Last edited by Deficineiron; 2018-03-20 at 08:13 PM.
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, WM Hodgson, Fredrick Brown, Robert SheckleyJohn Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Stephen R Donaldon, and Jack L Chalker.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    you wont' get much agreement on this thread, but it is worth it for everyone to realize this is the attitude a/b has in fact catered to. One EXPECTS a/b customers to agree with this poster.

    essentially, many people do not care about RPG elements in this game.

    individually, each minute item (hunter ammo, enchant in person, etc) can be torn down and declared irrelevant and a waste of time - and this attitude can be and has been taken to even greater, almost absurd extremes - like eliminating the ranged slot for most classes? it is a waste of time anyway, so why keep it.

    In aggregate, these small 'rules' define a lot of the player interaction with the game and each other in wow.
    Comparing farming shards or apply 10 times the same buff in 50 minutes instead of ONE to enchants applying or potions making or even fishing is so silly that does not even deserve an answer.

    There's no RPG element in farming shards endlessly or applying endlessly the same buff every 5 minutes. And no, i'm sorry but this is not an opinion.

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