I never looked at momentum as the same sort of deal but it actually is pretty similar yeah, i don't really enjoy momentum though, i like its concept but i find it too problematic for raiding, pvp on the other hand i enjoy having it and hate myself if i don't proc it before a fel barrage.
Demonic yes i concede is another pseudo colossus smash but it's actually a fun one for me because it hides itself well, i never even actually considered it to be a type of colossus smash because everything changes, the ability you use, you're now in meta with godlike healing etc etc, it just feels great compared to boring old warrior colossus smash and i still would like to see demonic be a playstyle that you could extend your metas for a bit longer, If i suddenly start to dislike demonic before BFA though you're to blame for making me realise that
Well, yeah, I on the other hand really enjoy Momentum, especially in encounters where it was almost impossible to do well, it was really satisfactory to pull off what most didn't even attempt as they perceived it to be not humanly possible.
To be honest, the best design is the one that is based on simple principles but hides them well and is fun. While I understand your request for meta extensions based on skill, I'm afraid Blizzard would mess it up heavily and nerf us so hard that Meta wouldn't make a difference anymore.
Apologies, all I wanted was to clarify things
The meta nerf part is kind of my point of extended metas, they totally destroyed demon hunter self healing in pvp because of how strong meta is as a cd, if demonic was a viable pvp build by having a sustainable meta form we would actually have a proper sustain which we simply do not have right now and we are pretty much dead last on pvp self healing.
When i proposed the meta extensions i consider both pvp and pve for my suggestions, pve needs something more added, especially in bfa when it will become a dead talent due to loss of tier set bonus, in pvp dh needs an option for more viable sustain. Fel barrage is ofcourse the go to talent for pvp right now but with the restructure of talent rows it allows for the top tier to be gameplay changers, demonic, momentum and a completely new mechanic to remove nemesis. This would allow room for demonic to be a viable option in pvp, you can take momentum for the damage increase or you can take demonic for the increased healing.
I am well aware we are getting leech out of meta in bfa with soul rend but it is not enough outside of meta and nowhere near enough even with meta cd.
"It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~ Jesus of Nazareth
"把它放在我的屁股,爸爸" ~ Dalai Lama
Ge can solo those because of high lvl gear, setbonus and leggys combined with class mechanics. We have not even seen anything even remotely close to this in the Alpha yet...
so are we still looking like 1 button *fall asleep* after 10 minutes of gameplay?
This is the last impression I get from Havoc DH in BFA. With the alterations to EB, BD, and the talent lineup we are likely going to be rolling 3-5 buttons in a rotation of sorts. I'm thinking 3,2,1,x,1,x,3 is as close to a one button rotation as you can get but with EB having damage increased by 100% on single target and the return of BD, you're not looking at a CS only build.
That's also the wrong way to do that build anyway, to maximize CS you'd prolly use 3,2,3,x,3,x,1 and use Demonic windows with dark slash and a stored fel blade proc.
Hold your horses until we see all the Azerite gear choices, friends.
Honestly, I'm really excited for BfA havoc. As someone who loved how Havoc played in beta up to 7.1, I never could stand demon blades being as good as it was, and I have to say I'm loving how they revamped the talent tree. 131X231 looks like it will be extremely fun, and I find that there are other builds that have wonderful synergies with the talent tree.
Like, while I see your point I don't think a class should be flawed without a set or gear pieces. Havoc should be fun, rewarding, and capable WITHOUT Azerite gear. Otherwise, levels 110-120 are terrible and then we hope and pray we didn't just waste our damn time because the Azerite gear will fix the problems we have. I had this position before with Havoc and you know what, the set pieces didn't fix DH.
It's not a balance issue when literally every spec in the game is complaining they feel incomplete on alpha atm.
It's obviously by design. Step outside your box and actually read other class forums... This is not some unique snowflake situation everyone is feeling it.
Every class is waiting on Azerite abilities, right now the alpha is like playing legion without your artifact weapon. No shit it feels incomplete.
If you think every spec has an incomplete feeling in the alpha there is clearly no point in talking about this because that is objectively not the case. WW for instance is actually in a good place currently but why would we want to do that when we can make sweeping statements about every spec being incomplete.
SOME classes are incomplete and need to be roughed out to be functional, enjoyable, and different BEFORE the varied Azerite pieces change the way it plays. ESPECIALLY since these pieces might not make sweeping changes like the Artifact trait to reduce EB CD with Soul pickup. Demonic with DA is literally only playable because that trait and that is not acceptable considering CB was removed and Nemesis now shares a talent row with Demonic and Momentum.
Making a class fun before it gets additions in gear is the goal for every class and to shift it on to Azerite pieces perpetuates the problem if the pieces become less than good later in the expansion.
Oh let me guess WW is in a good place because they have cc utility
What is being in a good place on alpha right now?
No max level.
No raid testing.
No high level pvp testing.
No Azerite gear.
But by golly miss molly I tell you those WW monks are in a good place right now! They got leg sweep and ring of peace! World champions of alpha leveling!
Every spec feels like an alpha version of their spec. It's alpha, and not even far into it to boot.
Last edited by Tech614; 2018-03-18 at 12:58 AM.
It's about getting the current game to make the later game better instead of making the current less than good for the late game to be ok. But sure, let's break down into hyperbolic and emotional child-like antics because that's how we're capable of carrying ourselves as adults.