If Sylvanas dies so does the Horde

[Deleted]

I just want you to think about how many racial leaders we've lost so far:

(1) Thrall began being shit when he left the Horde and began his 'spiritual awakening' or whatever it was he was on about, his character became worse and worse until he eventually cheated in Mak'gora and gave his iconic weapon to a random shaman 'champion' that as far as we know could've been alliance (think Varian's sword going to any warrior instead of Anduin)

(2) Cairne Bloodhoof died at the hands of Garrosh who had his weapon poisoned by accident

(3)Garrosh, who's only real mistake (albeit an unforgivable one) was being racist towards the other Horde members, was eventually ousted by the Horde and Alliance then killed by Thrall

(4) Vol'jin got stabbed by some random demon then died

Also, from the comics (Son of the Wolf, released in Legion), we know that Anduin will live to be an old man and that he will be the de-facto leader against the void, whether this is by Horde submission or willing compliance remains to be seen.

My point is that if the Horde loses another faction leader, especially one that has played such an important role in WoW since Warcraft 3, then nothing is sacred anymore. Love her or hate her Sylvanas represents our last bastion of Horde identity as a collective faction under one main leader, otherwise Bliz will be able to put any random npc pleb on the Warcheif merry go-round (who knows might even be the player one day).

[Lord Pebbleton]

Mmmh...
1. I agree that Thrall messed everything up. For the longest time, a lot of people were angry at him because he went full "lol ur fault" on Garrosh after being the one to put him in charge, and then he even cheated in that sacred duel. Glad the elements left him for that.

2. Cairne was the only reason I respected tauren. I am 100% Alliance but I always found him to be like a beacon of courage and strength, all the way from Warcraft 3. Then Magatha happened. She was the one to poison Garrosh's axe, and not only she is still alive and not impaled on a pike, she is a follower for shamans! And guess what, I have a tauren shaman! My leader was killed by this utter failure and I have to keep her around camp. Totally lost all interest in the whole race for that.

3. Garrosh was cool. He had ideas and plans. He did something. Not the right things, but at least he tried.

4. Vol'jin was the exact opposite. He didn't do anything and then died.

That is all to say, yes, you only have Sylvanas left. But having her doesn't seem like a good thing. The best thing for the horde right now would be keeping her around while new characters are developed to carry the Horde forward.

Of course, I still have hope for you; at least, until Blizzard decides that AU Grom "lol i drank deomn blod my dps is huge" Hellscream should become the new warchief. Then I'd probably pretend the Horde doesn't exist anymore...

[Dudas]

The Horde does not die with one leader. Even if all our cities are razed the horde races will always fight. From the orcs that will not accept slave pens and camps to the trolls that will summon and kill their Loa Gods to empower themselves so they can rebel, goblins will bomb an entire continent if they have to, forsaken that will just fill everything in their path with the plague and then retreat creating front lines and the blood elves that after the Scourge invasion nothing will ever impress or catch them unprepared.

Regarding leaders I agree Sylvanas is the last one with valid military experience and has the necessary pragmatism that the Horde needs in those times of war. Imo she is the best that the horde has to offer at this point. She is not the best warchief in history atm, maybe future actions will give her that title or ruin her legacy so hard that she will be hated more than Garrosh (doubt it) but we have no one else at the moment that can lead a faction war. If she dies someone will pick up the mantle. All warchiefs had supporters and counterparts that despised every second of their leadership. I like the fact that we see something else than shouts and stupid charges. People will hate her tactics and the way she sees/does war, even the forsaken will question her methods, but at the end of the day the only thing that will matter is the outcome. And until then we can just speculate. And those that follow after her will do their best, either to repair her mistakes, or continue what she started if they agree with her vision.

"In the end death claims us all... But the Horde will live on!"

[FelPlague]

im pretty sure in cata the plan was for us to kill off sylvanas, the lich king comment, fenris isle, soutshore, gilneas, deploying the plague after being ordered to stop.
meanwhile garrosh was about honor in stonetalon and led his troops head first into twilight highlands and would not let his horde fall.
i feel though that for some reason they backed off from sylvanas and moved it to garrosh instead, cause it makes no sense of how he just does a 180 flip

[Dudas]

im pretty sure in cata the plan was for us to kill off sylvanas, the lich king comment, fenris isle, soutshore, gilneas, deploying the plague after being ordered to stop.
meanwhile garrosh was about honor in stonetalon and led his troops head first into twilight highlands and would not let his horde fall.
i feel though that for some reason they backed off from sylvanas and moved it to garrosh instead, cause it makes no sense of how he just does a 180 flip

The same can be said about Sylvanas. She just got her vengeance and killed her nemesis in Arthas. And the first thing you do when you get home after wotlk is mimic Arthas behavior?

The team that wrote the lore for Cataclysm seem like fools that clearly didn't understand the characters and sometimes I wish I could ignore everything that happened with the main characters during that period. So we just take it as it is... written by a team of fools that didn't do enough research.

[Leodok]

There's no actual Horde while she's alive.

[Syegfryed]

Are you serious? they already fucked up with Vol'jin, and fucked up even more putting her as warchief, anything who come after this is a Win, there re a lot of horde characters who could get some kind of development and keep the horde Forward

and in any universe or alternative reality sylvanas represent the "last bastion of Horde identity", this is just wrong.

Besides, any character arc should end at some point, they can't just keep forcing her forever for the sake of the fanbase, or the character become toxic to the history and insufferable (like her and Thrall)

[Dudas]

There's no actual Horde while she's alive.

Yes yes... There was no horde during Garrosh, there was no Germany during Hitler, there was no Russia during Stalin, there was no UK during Churchill, there was no France resistance during WW2, there will be no more EU after brexit, There is no US during Trump... yes yes tell me more. Btw statements like that should be backed up with arguments.

Just because you miss killing peasants with your fellow orc " fel bros" that does't mean there is no horde. It's a different horde. One that seems weak and that has been drawn into the dust in the recent years with constant rebellions/losses/wars. So the horde has to change. Adapt and follow or rebel and replace with something better. For now you can't do any of these, which makes you look even more foolish.

[baskev]

I just want you to think about how many racial leaders we've lost so far:

(1) Thrall began being shit when he left the Horde and began his 'spiritual awakening' or whatever it was he was on about, his character became worse and worse until he eventually cheated in Mak'gora and gave his iconic weapon to a random shaman 'champion' that as far as we know could've been alliance (think Varian's sword going to any warrior instead of Anduin)

(2) Cairne Bloodhoof died at the hands of Garrosh who had his weapon poisoned by accident

(3)Garrosh, who's only real mistake (albeit an unforgivable one) was being racist towards the other Horde members, was eventually ousted by the Horde and Alliance then killed by Thrall

(4) Vol'jin got stabbed by some random demon then died

Also, from the comics, we know that Anduin will live to be an old man and that he will be the de-facto leader against the void, whether this is by Horde submission or willing compliance remains to be seen.

My point is that if the Horde loses another faction leader, especially one that has played such an important role in WoW since Warcraft 3, then nothing is sacred anymore. Love her or hate her Sylvanas represents our last bastion of Horde identity as a collective faction under one main leader, otherwise Bliz will be able to put any random npc pleb on the Warcheif merry go-round (who knows might even be the player one day).

A couple of remarks:
- first the comic of old Anduin is not cannon as far as i know.
- Nope the horde can ( and will ) loose her ( small change that she lives seen below why). Alliance also lost people. Or does lone dog and mr the light will protect me not say anything to you. Or arthas or uther etc etc.

I agree Vol' jin death was a big mistake. But the only reason to do it is to make room for a other story/hero. Sylvanas
Meaning she is going to be more then just a replacement Warchief ( witch sadly was vol'jin , just a filler warchief). Meaning there is a deeper thought around her story. It might become that she is a good person. Or that she is making room for a warchief with both honor but small hatred that will keep the war between horde and allaince going. Vol'jin was like Varian in the end. To much respect for each others factions ( atleast that is how i read most of their actions) .
And the horde has still some back up warchiefs. You have cow jr, grey orc, jezus orc, lor'themar.
I think the alliance has a bigger problem with leadership. You have:
- crazy mage women
- Mad dog
- sleeping druid
- sleeping druids wife , aka hardcore horde hater
- 3 stooges ( dwarfs)
Non of them storywise could be a replacement for Anduin.

But i do agree with you. I think they are writing themselves into a corner.



btw this is all a theories not facts .

[Varitok]

This is getting out of hand guys.

[Skoll Shorties]

I don't blame and I wont blame Thrall for what's happened. Garrosh made his own choices and those choiced led the World and the Horde to where it is now. I do agree that once Sylvanas dies that's our last OG(Original) Leader gone and it will feel like all of the torches have gone out and are only left by small embers.

We still technically have Thrall (should he rejoin as a Leader) and that is both possible but also unlikely. But other than Thrall, the Alliance still basically have all of their original leaders (Varian and Magni are the only two really gone) while the Horde only has Sylvanas. I really hope Blizzard doesn't do the obvious and kill Sylvanas off, hell i'm up for some development for her finally, but death? No sir or ma'am we've had that aplenty.

At least there are rumors of Vol'jin's return so that's three OG leaders alive.

[Tripzzz]

Are you serious? they already fucked up with Vol'jin, and fucked up even more putting her as warchief, anything who come after this is a Win, there re a lot of horde characters who could get some kind of development and keep the horde Forward

and in any universe or alternative reality sylvanas represent the "last bastion of Horde identity", this is just wrong.

Besides, any character arc should end at some point, they can't just keep forcing her forever for the sake of the fanbase, or the character become toxic to the history and insufferable (like her and Thrall)

Next expansion the Horde will get a Vulpera as the Warchief. Lmao.

[SreeTmoker]

Read Sylvanas Windrunner: Edge of Night its a free short story.
The Dark lady still has 7 valkyrs SEVEN.
Sylvanas is not dying anytime soon.

[Syegfryed]

Next expansion the Horde will get a Vulpera as the Warchief. Lmao.

Personally, i would prefer vulpera than what we have now

[Dudas]

Are you serious? they already fucked up with Vol'jin, and fucked up even more putting her as warchief, anything who come after this is a Win, there re a lot of horde characters who could get some kind of development and keep the horde Forward

and in any universe or alternative reality sylvanas represent the "last bastion of Horde identity", this is just wrong.

Besides, any character arc should end at some point, they can't just keep forcing her forever for the sake of the fanbase, or the character become toxic to the history and insufferable (like her and Thrall)

Sorry to say but I don't see her as a mistake as warchief considering the other options. Imo she is the only one that can lead at this moment. All the other faction leaders are good for their respective factions but not good for the horde as a whole. This is where the challenge comes. I don't see Saurfang leading blood elves and nightborne into battle just as I don't see Lor'themar shouting orders to taurens and orcs on the front lines. At least with Sylvanas as Warchief she can use all of them in an effective way and give them clear orders cause she looks more capable at knowing what the other races are capable of and what she can ask from them. I can't see the other leaders planning an effective siege or defend key points with the current Horde.

[Tripzzz]

Personally, i would prefer vulpera than what we have now

I hope Saurfang chops her head off and takes his rightful place as Warchief. Sad they would try to do him dirty just to appease the toxic forsaken fans.

[Syegfryed]

Sorry to say but I don't see her as a mistake as warchief considering the other options. Imo she is the only one that can lead at this moment. .

thats totally subjective, i can name 3 or 5 who could lead without a problem, and would fit way more thematically with the horde and his values, but i don't want trigger anyone, those topics always end up in mess

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I hope Saurfang chops her head off and takes his rightful place as Warchief. Sad they would try to do him dirty just to appease the toxic forsaken fans.

its more easy to kill him of to promote her, like they did with vol'jin

[Dudas]

thats totally subjective, i can name 3 or 5 who could lead without a problem, and would fit way more thematically with the horde and his values, but i don't want trigger anyone, those topics always end up in mess

Ofc it's subjective. Your picks are also subjective regardless of who they are. But me and many fellow horde players don't see anyone else better fit for the job nobody wants at the moment. The horde looks like a bunch of headless chickens.

[Qualia]

- first the comic of old Anduin is not cannon as far as i know.

It is. Everything released by Blizzard (from as low as in-game stuffs to Twitter posts, to the comics, novels & other side materials books) is canon unless Blizzard explicitly state otherwise, or retcon it with another release later.

[Syegfryed]

Ofc it's subjective. Your picks are also subjective regardless of who they are. But me and many fellow horde players don't see anyone else better fit for the job nobody wants at the moment. The horde looks like a bunch of headless chickens.

Saurfang would be better. objectively. the only argument against is "he is old" "he don't want to"

Others would be better subjectively.

about "who fit" the job more, what terms are we using? protagonist? plot armor? others have same or more credentials to "fit the job" fine