Shadow is the worst spec I have ever played

[Deleted]

I'll reiterate, I completely understand where you're coming from - I just don't want an entire talent row to dictate my spec. I want my spec to dictate my spec, and I want impactful talent choices that give different gameplay decisions that can be adjusted per fight, per raid, per dungeon, etc.

The only way you can truely achieve that with shadow is with 3 steroid talents like wods cop. Like you are asking specifically for steroid talents without steroid talents. If you look back to wod they were going the steroid route with CoP, AS and VE. We had AS for progression and CoP for when AS fell behind, unfortunately blizz dropped the ball with balancing this and designing it, then gave it all up to give us this shitty insanity crap.

Also the void IS shadow.

[Aggrodesiac]

The only way you can truely achieve that with shadow is with 3 steroid talents like wods cop. Like you are asking specifically for steroid talents without steroid talents. If you look back to wod they were going the steroid route with CoP, AS and VE. We had AS for progression and CoP for when AS fell behind, unfortunately blizz dropped the ball with balancing this and designing it, then gave it all up to give us this shitty insanity crap.

Also the void IS shadow.

The steroid talent, as you have described it, is exactly what I don't want my entire spec dictated by. I felt the CoP vs AS vs VE decision in WoD sucked, and in the end I gave up on Shadow for much of that expansion. Now, I know many liked the CoP playstyle, but I disliked it vehemently.

As for the Void is Shadow and Void vs. Shadow debates... I think a lot of the lore for Shadow Priests has changed with this new Void Form/insanty focus. In my mind, Priest breaks down in four ways now:

• Holy Priest: A Holy Priest worships the Light and channels it to heal allies (the simplest of the four to explain).
• Discipline Priest: A Priest that has given up on the Light as the sole source of healing and aiding allies, and implements multiple disciplines to do so.
• Shadow Priest: A Priest that has forsaken the light and embraced darkness, allowing Shadow magic from the Void to overtake them and influence their magical prowess in the form of damage over time abilities that warp, decay, and destroy their opponents. They take on Shadow Form to do so.
• Void Priest: Fully embrace the Void, losing themselves in the power of the Old Gods. So much so, that many of their abilities have only previously been seen used by Faceless Ones, for example. They take on an enhanced Shadow Form, in this case a Void Form, and teeter on the edge of madness, channelling the true power of the Old Gods and dealing high direct damage.

You are correct, Shadow is Void, but in this case I feel that there's a distinct line that can be drawn, and one that I think could be really interesting to see. And again, I know this is all super farfetched and I even found it a little silly typing it all out, but I think it could be a very interesting direction to take Priests, and one that could really start tackling issues DPS priests have these days.

[HealeRaphael]

I totally agree. I have to say the void form of shadow priest in Legion is interesting and fun and I like it no less than the Spriest in Cataclysm. However, World of Warcraft is an ONLINE game in that player interactions are the MOST IMPORTANT things! Spriest in Legion will be a interesting spec if it was in the PC game and it will be a good choice for the players who want to challenge themselves. But the Spriest in an online game is a truly failure. No utility, no mobility, no aoe, low single damage, long ramp-up time, Spriest are the worst at everything except raiding.

No player would like to enjoy the game with Spriest outside the gate of raid because all we do is to pull our teammates back. It is never be ordinary when a dps spec may generate less damage than a healer or a tank in low-level content (heroic dungeon, mythic dungeon and low level mythic+); it is never be ordinary that a dps spec finishes the world quests much slower than a healer; it is never be ordinary that a dps spec in legion cannot easily enjoy the contents in previous expansion. Who would like to choose such a spec? No one will care whether a spec is interesting or not if it is a drag on gameplay and no one will play such an "interesting" spec when the spec is treated unequal.

[Dristereau]

I don't think it's completely terrible, as in it works fine and is viable. However as you've said whole build up and management is horrific in what is quite often a time based environment, or in lower content, you might as well be afk. The AoE is dumb, DoT and apparently mind flay will start to cleave, but I do think the way Voidform works is fun.

Would I play this spec as my Main? Never in a million years. Having played it in PVP with insta Void Eruption I now hate it in PVE. The spec needs some decent AoE beyond DoTing, especially with the AoE damage Holy can do. If you ever have a Heroic Dungeon I would expect the Holy Priest to outdamage a Shadow one on trash with how fast trash dies. Holy Nova is crazy, yet Shadow has pretend mind sear and Dots. Also it doesn't really feel unique enough to me right now. You're essentially an Affliction Warlock with less utility, damage and smaller toolkit, and Affliction Warlocks can also change up their DPS playstyle with Demo/Destro.

[Ariss]

Cata shadowpriest was Best :/

Oh good Lord, those were glorious days... Firelands felt like they were designed for us.

[Fumu]

While I would never use it in a dungeon for obvious reasons, I actually really like how shadow "feels" overall. It feels like Vanilla, but better. Then again I felt meh about spriests in Cata and HATED orbs, so my opinion is probably a minority.

[Ophenia]

Also the void IS shadow.

Yep so we should rename "Voidform" to "Shadowform but a bit darker because why not".

[Deleted]

Legion Shadow is terrible. Of course some people like it, there will always be fans of every spec - but throughout Legion there has been lots of discontent aimed at the spec.

Aside from the spec needing 60 seconds+ to get going, the playstyle doesn't work in all areas of gameplay, and for this reason I cannot believe it actually ever shipped.

The crux of the spec is, get into Void Form and maintain it for as long as possible. That doesn't work questing. It doesn't work between packs in 5 man content, it doesn't always work in PvE (unless you are allowed to stand back and DoT multiple players without being targeted).

Legion Shadow is nice in theory, but far from great in practise.

Also; the theme is dreadful. Out of nowhere we are borderline insane priests worshipping the old gods. What the hell was Blizzard thinking. Shadow Priests should not be involved with tentacles, ever.

[draynay]

BC and Cata were great, now is just tolerable.

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

From SM/SM Warlocks [/B]

threw up in my mouth a little when that shit was brought up, UA spec fo lyf

[Kazuchika]

In the same game where Frost Mage and Balance Druid exist Shadow cannot possibly be the worst spec.

[kail]

It's not the worse spec, but is the worse iteration of shadow for as long as I played it since tBC. Instead of being the dot maintainer that is used to be, it's a 3 button CD spam (4 during execution).

[krille20]

I like the spec actually. I know it has flaws and can be quite annoying some times compared to other specs but my main problem with spec is that you need so much haste in order to play the spec properly it feels like. My priest is currently at 940 ilvl (I know its very low) with around 13k haste, with Sephuz and belt as legendaries but I still feel like I need way more haste in order to do the same damage as the other classes with similar ilvl.

It's very possible I could be doing something wrong with the rotation but I really dont think so. It's not that hard.

TLDR; I like the spec but I feel like the haste requirements is a little out of hand.

[Fumu]

If the spec had better burst options and actual AOE, I would die happy. As it stands I'm already going to make Holy my healing main again because shadow is way more fun in the open world than feral (rip speed boosts and stealth, though).

That being said, the entire game has gotten burstier and burstier and long ramp-up DoT specs feel handicapped outside of raids. They really need to address this - maybe a talent that lowers the final dps potential overall but adds a huge buff to Mind Blast/flay so that you can at least do decent overworld mob/dungeon pack dps. Also Mind Sear is balls, it's been a boring and underwhelming skill since conception so I really hope there's better AOE options in BfA.

Honestly I don't care what happens as long as we never get Orbs again.

[Drakain]

Don’t enjoy it. The AE stink, the ramp up time means the only time you get to feel like a real dps class is on long encounters. I don’t think it’s a good design to manage both dots and a power gauge that depletes fairly quickly. There needs to be better options for solo/leveling too bmuch cause leveling as shadow is just miserable - except when you actually have a full gauge at the start of a fight.

[Chemii]

People talking about the old days, did you even play shadow? It's practically the same as it is now other than the fact you enter void form occasionally. Still gotta maintain the same dots, still gotta clip mindflay, still gotta press mindblast.

In-fact the old shadow was so retarded you could make a macro to do the entire rotation and press one button the whole fight and you want that back, to improve a lack of burst and aoe? What planet are you on. Shadow priest was a meme for a long time, there is even a video of tom cruise edited to rip the piss out of Shadow.

Shadow suffers from the same problems it always has, it also excels in the same places it did before, with some minor improvements to gameplay. If you can't play it well, you just suck but you have to accept you won't out AoE anyone without sufficient time.

No one in their right mind wants shadow orbs or mind spike spam to come back.

[Jervaise]

People talking about the old days, did you even play shadow? It's practically the same as it is now other than the fact you enter void form occasionally. Still gotta maintain the same dots, still gotta clip mindflay, still gotta press mindblast.

In-fact the old shadow was so retarded you could make a macro to do the entire rotation and press one button the whole fight and you want that back, to improve a lack of burst and aoe? What planet are you on. Shadow priest was a meme for a long time, there is even a video of tom cruise edited to rip the piss out of Shadow.

Shadow suffers from the same problems it always has, it also excels in the same places it did before, with some minor improvements to gameplay. If you can't play it well, you just suck but you have to accept you won't out AoE anyone without sufficient time.

No one in their right mind wants shadow orbs or mind spike spam to come back.

We never had a 1 min ramp up... Or extreme punishment for moving/not being able to cast for 3 seconds. This current iteration is almost identical to CoP play style on single target = zero dot management, just 2 casts and an instant, with few complimentary occasionals.

Edit: I hated CoP dotweaving due to memorized opener/repeater. At least in the current version it's again priority management.

[Priority]

As a raider and pvp player I completely agree with the OP. Valid that people feel it is a fun spec to play, and it is a valid spec in a good raiding comp. Currently I feel it is a terrible spec, and a one trick as the OP stated.

It is a good raiding spec, outside of progression. With its long ramp up, plus progression fights not making it into execute phases, it just sucks...

Also that feeling when you pop void form and realize you are now doing the same amount of dmg that everyone else is...

If they want this spec to be counted as something non-niche, they would need to do something with resource management + stacks. Either focus on one or the other, not both. I think the problem lies there, but as the op stated it is tied to the long ramp up.

[Ophenia]

People talking about the old days, did you even play shadow? It's practically the same as it is now other than the fact you enter void form occasionally. Still gotta maintain the same dots, still gotta clip mindflay, still gotta press mindblast.

And you're talking after that of people who "don't know how to play the spec" ? We never maintain DoTs, we put them once per fight. Except when the bosses goes away for more than 30 seconds then yeah we may eventually have to re-apply them (unlikely for VT though).

And with this kind of thinking, no specs ever changed.

Why ? Because before :
- We had Devouring Plague (either a normal DoT or consuming orbs)
- Mind Blast and Mind Spike consumed Orbs so you could perfectly time them if needed, plus Mind Blast gave a DoT buff you had to maintain.
- We could if needed have a look at our friends' health (divine star, halo, cascade were never top DPS skills, but they provided nice assist healing AND HEALING SPELLS PROC'D TWIST OF FATE TOO).
- We had to re-apply DoTs based on our current power (DoT snapshotting)
- We could use Shadow Word: Death to replenish our Mana through Masochism (that was actually enjoyable)
- We actually had a (small, but still) compensation for high-movement, with the Shadowy apparitions proc'ing more while moving.
- Max Orbs set to 5 allowed us to bank them for an important burst without losing much.
- We could actually use Shadowfiend when we wanted. Current iteration of Shadowfiend/Mindbender blocks us to Mindbender'ing only when reaching a given amount of stacks, so that's dumb gameplay without any kind of thinking. You can't delay it or use it earlier because if you do so, you can as well AFK for the next minute or so.
- Hell, we could even Mind Spike if a Stop DPS was needed, even this possibility is gone

In-fact the old shadow was so retarded you could make a macro to do the entire rotation and press one button the whole fight and you want that back, to improve a lack of burst and aoe? What planet are you on. Shadow priest was a meme for a long time, there is even a video of tom cruise edited to rip the piss out of Shadow.

Are you saying it's perfectly impossible to macro the current Shadow Priest rotation ? Lol
The fact that I can tell you your cycle, from memory, from first second to last health point of the enemy, is enough to tell you how much this gameplay sucks.
Stop trying to make us believe this frenetic "VoidBolt>MindBlast>MindFlay>repeat until 25-30 stacks where you'll thrown in the Mindbender then continue the next 30 seconds" is some superior gameplay requiring you to be the best player ever.

All it requires is a 2ms connection, minor environmental disturbances, and muscle memory. There is literally no thinking required behind this gamestyle.

[Chemii]

And you're talking after that of people who "don't know how to play the spec" ? We never maintain DoTs, we put them once per fight. Except when the bosses goes away for more than 30 seconds then yeah we may eventually have to re-apply them (unlikely for VT though).

And with this kind of thinking, no specs ever changed.

Why ? Because before :
- We had Devouring Plague (either a normal DoT or consuming orbs)
- Mind Blast and Mind Spike consumed Orbs so you could perfectly time them if needed, plus Mind Blast gave a DoT buff you had to maintain.
- We could if needed have a look at our friends' health (divine star, halo, cascade were never top DPS skills, but they provided nice assist healing AND HEALING SPELLS PROC'D TWIST OF FATE TOO).
- We had to re-apply DoTs based on our current power (DoT snapshotting)
- We could use Shadow Word: Death to replenish our Mana through Masochism (that was actually enjoyable)
- We actually had a (small, but still) compensation for high-movement, with the Shadowy apparitions proc'ing more while moving.
- Max Orbs set to 5 allowed us to bank them for an important burst without losing much.
- We could actually use Shadowfiend when we wanted. Current iteration of Shadowfiend/Mindbender blocks us to Mindbender'ing only when reaching a given amount of stacks, so that's dumb gameplay without any kind of thinking. You can't delay it or use it earlier because if you do so, you can as well AFK for the next minute or so.
- Hell, we could even Mind Spike if a Stop DPS was needed, even this possibility is gone

Are you saying it's perfectly impossible to macro the current Shadow Priest rotation ? Lol
The fact that I can tell you your cycle, from memory, from first second to last health point of the enemy, is enough to tell you how much this gameplay sucks.
Stop trying to make us believe this frenetic "VoidBolt>MindBlast>MindFlay>repeat until 25-30 stacks where you'll thrown in the Mindbender then continue the next 30 seconds" is some superior gameplay requiring you to be the best player ever.

All it requires is a 2ms connection, minor environmental disturbances, and muscle memory. There is literally no thinking required behind this gamestyle.

When I talk about old shadow I mean old shadow, not MoP or WoD.

I acknowledged the problems inside the post you quoted and at no point did I say it was perfect or that it was even enjoyable.

What I won't accept is people talking about TBC, Wrath or Cata as if it was so much fun, when it's practically the same as now. The spec has regressed significantly in a lot of ways, those you acknowledge and that was my point.

However, I am not an avid fan of Mindspike and never was outside of PvP. I am a firm believer that a spec should not excel in every aspect of the game and I feel like a lot of the complaints here are misplaced by people complaining about a lack of damage in certain scenarios rather than how the spec actually plays in those scenarios - two different things.

Most importantly people now think Shadow is hard to play and that just isn't true at all.