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  1. #1

    Question Theory: Kul'Tiran assets made with future Ogres in mind

    We've seen how most of these Allied Races have played out so far: take existing player races and tweak them. As a developer, it's just much easier than creating entirely new player models from scratch. So we get Nightborne that look a little too similar to Night Elves even though the NPC assets were already in game. Apparently, it's just much more feasible to move one player race to another.

    Battle for Azeroth is coming, and the focus is on Zandalar and Kul Tiras. Horde and Alliance need to make allies with these new islands. It is confirmed that the Horde will get the Zandalari Trolls for an Allied Race, and for the same of argument, I will assume Kul'Tiras humans will join the Alliance in time.

    Why did they make the Kul'Tirans the "fat humans" the message boards are irritated with? Why not use the existing human model and give it some flair, like the Highmountain and Lightforged Allied Races. Why go through all the trouble to make completely new models for an Allied Race of this stature and giant size? I have to conclude that they plan to reuse these models for another Allied Race in the future. And what race do we know of that the players have wished for for over a decade that are essentially "fat humans"?

    It makes complete sense that these models were created not only to give the Alliance some body diversity, but with the intention to reuse them for Ogres in the future. Look at these images for an idea of how simple it would be; and perhaps we have a glimpse into future female Ogres as well!


  2. #2
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Yeah, I could see it. And with reusing base models and updating cosmetics/some animations being the main theme at work for allied races, KT Humans do currently stand out as odd man out here, with unique models and skeletons.
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  3. #3
    They made Kul Tirans visually different so that Alliance would have at least one allied race with a visually distinct model like Zandalari/Nightborne, but you're right that they could be used for Ogres. I just don't think that's the main reason.

  4. #4
    Merely a Setback Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Could I see it? Sure.

    Do I think it happens during BFA? No.

    Feel like Ogres would work better with an Old World revamp, considering how most of the Horde-leaning Ogres are from Kalimdor.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Could I see it? Sure.

    Do I think it happens during BFA? No.

    Feel like Ogres would work better with an Old World revamp, considering how most of the Horde-leaning Ogres are from Kalimdor.
    Yeah, I think we're going to see something with Silvermoon and the Exodar getting revamps in a patch (because they are the last defense lines) which will in turn lead to Blizz cleaning up some areas visually next expansion.

  6. #6
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    They made Kul Tirans visually different so that Alliance would have at least one allied race with a visually distinct model like Zandalari/Nightborne, but you're right that they could be used for Ogres. I just don't think that's the main reason.
    Even then, both of those fellas use the night elf base (Zandalari females might use the stock troll female base, I need to take another look at them). Void elves look pretty visually distinct on the Alliance, as will Dark Irons; it feels odd that the KT Humans are the only allied race (okay, "potential," let's pretend they're not shoe-ins for the next Alliance allied race to go up against the Draenorcs) to use a unique model developed from scratch--it runs counter to one of the key features all allied races share amongst one another.
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  7. #7
    Merely a Setback Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    Yeah, I think we're going to see something with Silvermoon and the Exodar getting revamps in a patch (because they are the last defense lines) which will in turn lead to Blizz cleaning up some areas visually next expansion.
    I don't think so. I think if Blizz has plans of revamping anything, as opposed to phasing and war fronts, it'll be in 9.0 as a big expansion feature.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    Even then, both of those fellas use the night elf base (Zandalari females might use the stock troll female base, I need to take another look at them). Void elves look pretty visually distinct on the Alliance, as will Dark Irons; it feels odd that the KT Humans are the only allied race (okay, "potential," let's pretend they're not shoe-ins for the next Alliance allied race to go up against the Draenorcs) to use a unique model developed from scratch--it runs counter to one of the key features all allied races share amongst one another.
    Nightborne are very very close to Night Elves (both species and model wise): the fact that they aren't as unique as the NPCs is because it would be "unfair" if they looked completely different. Zandalari use the Nelf rigging 100% at the start, but they are being phased out with more and more unique animations. They are trying to make Zandalari and Kul Tirans the "most unique" race of the Allied Races.

    Again, not everything is going to be 1:1 (especially because of Nightborne) but Blizz tries to make it close.

  9. #9
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    Nightborne are very very close to Night Elves (both species and model wise): the fact that they aren't as unique as the NPCs is because it would be "unfair" if they looked completely different. Zandalari use the Nelf rigging 100% at the start, but they are being phased out with more and more unique animations. They are trying to make Zandalari and Kul Tirans the "most unique" race of the Allied Races.

    Again, not everything is going to be 1:1 (especially because of Nightborne) but Blizz tries to make it close.
    Right, right. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those sorts who sits here screaming "OMG LAZINESS," just that I'm pretty sure (80-95%) that the KT Human model is going to be reused for a Horde allied race in BFA's lifetime, if only because it seems odd to have a completely unique model and skeleton that reuses no assets amid all the other allied races, where the design intent is to reuse models, come up with unique animations, and crunch out more race options that way than they could by building unique models ground-up.
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  10. #10
    Mechagnome serendipity11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Futhark View Post
    We've seen how most of these Allied Races have played out so far: take existing player races and tweak them. As a developer, it's just much easier than creating entirely new player models from scratch. So we get Nightborne that look a little too similar to Night Elves even though the NPC assets were already in game. Apparently, it's just much more feasible to move one player race to another.

    Battle for Azeroth is coming, and the focus is on Zandalar and Kul Tiras. Horde and Alliance need to make allies with these new islands. It is confirmed that the Horde will get the Zandalari Trolls for an Allied Race, and for the same of argument, I will assume Kul'Tiras humans will join the Alliance in time.

    Why did they make the Kul'Tirans the "fat humans" the message boards are irritated with? Why not use the existing human model and give it some flair, like the Highmountain and Lightforged Allied Races. Why go through all the trouble to make completely new models for an Allied Race of this stature and giant size? I have to conclude that they plan to reuse these models for another Allied Race in the future. And what race do we know of that the players have wished for for over a decade that are essentially "fat humans"?

    It makes complete sense that these models were created not only to give the Alliance some body diversity, but with the intention to reuse them for Ogres in the future. Look at these images for an idea of how simple it would be; and perhaps we have a glimpse into future female Ogres as well!

    I like the idea. But there better be a 2 headed option... Then my mage becomes a two headed female ogre of pure ARCANE POWAH!!!!!!!
    Let's get 1 thing straight, I'm not

  11. #11
    I'm really skeptical on whether (bulky) Kul Tirans will be made an allied race to be honest. The models themselves seem to have less work on them than the vulpera models.

  12. #12
    Give me WC3:R, Blizz! The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Seems possible, yeah. I'd be good with it.

  13. #13
    TBH I feel that it's mostly Alliance players who keep pushing Ogres for Horde, and it's mostly some OCD completionism rather than a real desire to play them. Ogres were part of the Old Horde way back, before Warcraft III. Nowadays, with the direction our Horde took, Ogres don't really make any sense. Even in WoD they appeared primarily as oppressors to the Orcs. If I was to chose an imperialistic brutal race to play as today, I'd much rather go with Mogu.

  14. #14
    Mostly because there is no practical way to introduce reskinned or recolored humans as another human nation and make it believable at this point. There are no real color distinctions in the human population that dictates what nation they are from right now, so that a human from Stormwind will look like a human from Lorderon, or Kul'Tiras, or Dalaran, with no real difference.

    Therefore if Blizzard is going to implement another human nation as a playable race for the Alliance, that race either needs some super cool racials to stand out, or an entirely new model. So Kul'Tiras human (playable?) will have a new model that is possibly a half-Vrykul, instead of a baseline human.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Atethecat View Post
    I'm really skeptical on whether (bulky) Kul Tirans will be made an allied race to be honest. The models themselves seem to have less work on them than the vulpera models.
    How so? Keep in mind that horde content is further ahead in development than alliance content. The zones, npcs, etc are all further along in Zandalar than in Kultiras. I don't think the bulky kultirans have less work than vulpera. Vulpera have snouts and ears, but kultirans have actual hairstyles and beards.

  16. #16
    Merely a Setback Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coconut View Post
    TBH I feel that it's mostly Alliance players who keep pushing Ogres for Horde, and it's mostly some OCD completionism rather than a real desire to play them. Ogres were part of the Old Horde way back, before Warcraft III. Nowadays, with the direction our Horde took, Ogres don't really make any sense. Even in WoD they appeared primarily as oppressors to the Orcs. If I was to chose an imperialistic brutal race to play as today, I'd much rather go with Mogu.
    I mean there's that one person who has a whole Ogre Character Creator as well.

    There are some real Ogre fans out there, but I don't think they're a huge population. Of course you could say they have a bigger interest group than Lightforged or Highmountain.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugnomo View Post
    How so? Keep in mind that horde content is further ahead in development than alliance content. The zones, npcs, etc are all further along in Zandalar than in Kultiras. I don't think the bulky kultirans have less work than vulpera. Vulpera have snouts and ears, but kultirans have actual hairstyles and beards.
    As much as I like and want Vulpera to be an Allied Race, I do think Kul'tirans look better detailed. Just comparing faces to fur.

    Also doesn't help Vulpera use Goblin animations which are the last remnants of Pre-MoP quality.
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  17. #17
    It's very, very plausible and I've thought that for a while now. I'd love ogres as an allied race.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugnomo View Post
    How so? Keep in mind that horde content is further ahead in development than alliance content. The zones, npcs, etc are all further along in Zandalar than in Kultiras. I don't think the bulky kultirans have less work than vulpera. Vulpera have snouts and ears, but kultirans have actual hairstyles and beards.
    It's not as much as the model as it is animations. Ignoring the pretty diverse ear, face and color customization, vulpera clearly have animations with expressive faces, even for seemingly unnecessary emotes like /train. I haven't checked out the Kul Tiran models in a long time, but they seemed to be lacking.

  19. #19
    Merely a Setback Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atethecat View Post
    It's not as much as the model as it is animations. Ignoring the pretty diverse ear, face and color customization, vulpera clearly have animations with expressive faces, even for seemingly unnecessary emotes like /train. I haven't checked out the Kul Tiran models in a long time, but they seemed to be lacking.
    I actually checked Kul'tirans earlier today. They don't have near the amount of animations that Zandalari have.

    Heck they even lack an animation for using bows. Which to me seems more like "alpha is incomplete" than "they're just an NPC race."

    I mean if we're trying to suss out the missing Alliance Allied Race just by number of animations, we'd be certain it's Vulpera, and very confused by why broadcast text seems to have them being literally liberated by Horde.





    Also, personally, I wouldn't pay much attention to the Vulpera animations. They're using the Goblin animation set which we know is slated to get a total revamp sometime during BFA. So Vulpera likely will animate different come 8.1 or 8.2 than they do now.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Coconut View Post
    TBH I feel that it's mostly Alliance players who keep pushing Ogres for Horde, and it's mostly some OCD completionism rather than a real desire to play them. Ogres were part of the Old Horde way back, before Warcraft III. Nowadays, with the direction our Horde took, Ogres don't really make any sense. Even in WoD they appeared primarily as oppressors to the Orcs. If I was to chose an imperialistic brutal race to play as today, I'd much rather go with Mogu.
    There are already ogres in the New Horde, the Stonemaul and the Dunemaul Clans.

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