Bring back 7.2 BoS spec?

[Kaver]

I really miss the BoS spec from Nighthold. The BoS was arguably too long, but it was still really fun, especially just when it became viable. In the long run it became a bit boring but this happens with all builds when you have no viable alternative. I don't agree with the changes Blizzard made as a solution to the problem. In my opinion the synergy between BoS and HRW were completely fine. The problem was the undertuning of the Obliteration spec. In a perfect situation for me we would have the old BoS spec as the Risk-Reward spec for maximum damage and a viable Obliteration spec which would provide more flexibility for fights with more movement etc. The Obliteration spec should then provide ~90-95 % damage of the BoS spec on a stationary dummy fight.

One thing is sure for me: I don't like the current BoS spec. I have played the Obliteration spec sinse the release of Antorus and it is getting really boring by now. I feel the Obliteration spec is a nice alternative to something else, but as a cookie-cutter build it is just not challenging enough. I know people have different opinions on what is challenging and not, but I don't really use any brain power when playing with Obliteration. It is nice for mythic progress, but still... not fun as the only option.

What do you think? Do you hate or love the old BoS spec? Should Blizzard bring it back? Was it the right solution to change the 7.2 BoS spec or should they just have buffed the Obliteration spec? Are you okay with playing the Obliteration spec for the rest of the expansion with the occasional use of BoS on Kin'garoth?

[hasslehoof]

nh bos was an absolute clown fiesta of rng, if anything they should bring back WoD BoS similar to how it was for Unholy, where it actually rewarded good play outside of pre-pull shenanigans.

[Deleted]

I really miss the BoS spec from Nighthold. The BoS was arguably too long, but it was still really fun, especially just when it became viable. In the long run it became a bit boring but this happens with all builds when you have no viable alternative. I don't agree with the changes Blizzard made as a solution to the problem. In my opinion the synergy between BoS and HRW were completely fine. The problem was the undertuning of the Obliteration spec. In a perfect situation for me we would have the old BoS spec as the Risk-Reward spec for maximum damage and a viable Obliteration spec which would provide more flexibility for fights with more movement etc. The Obliteration spec should then provide ~90-95 % damage of the BoS spec on a stationary dummy fight.

One thing is sure for me: I don't like the current BoS spec. I have played the Obliteration spec sinse the release of Antorus and it is getting really boring by now. I feel the Obliteration spec is a nice alternative to something else, but as a cookie-cutter build it is just not challenging enough. I know people have different opinions on what is challenging and not, but I don't really use any brain power when playing with Obliteration. It is nice for mythic progress, but still... not fun as the only option.

What do you think? Do you hate or love the old BoS spec? Should Blizzard bring it back? Was it the right solution to change the 7.2 BoS spec or should they just have buffed the Obliteration spec? Are you okay with playing the Obliteration spec for the rest of the expansion with the occasional use of BoS on Kin'garoth?

BoS Frost was one of the least fun specs I've ever played, so.. No.

[Hellborne87]

I really enjoyed it. Now we're back to brainless button mashing. With BoS, it was high risk - high reward, much more engaging, and felt a lot more exciting to me. They absolutely crippled the talent tree because they couldn't tune / offer competitive alternatives. Not offering competitive alternatives is the real problem. BoS was some of the funnest Frost gameplay I've ever experienced and although I still enjoy playing my DK, things are rather uninteresting right now with Unholy being a joke and BoS not being a thing anymore. Would just be nice to have some options.

[Kaver]

BoS Frost was one of the least fun specs I've ever played, so.. No.

Fair enough. Do you like the current Obliteration spec then?

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I really enjoyed it. Now we're back to brainless button mashing. With BoS, it was high risk - high reward, much more engaging, and felt a lot more exciting to me. They absolutely crippled the talent tree because they couldn't tune / offer competitive alternatives. Not offering competitive alternatives is the real problem. BoS was some of the funnest Frost gameplay I've ever experienced and although I still enjoy playing my DK, things are rather uninteresting right now with Unholy being a joke and BoS not being a thing anymore. Would just be nice to have some options.

I always wondered why Blizzard couldn't just buff Obliteration with a small haste increase or something instead of "nerfing" the BoS spec.

For me the perfect Obliteration would be a combination of the current Obliteration and Hungering Rune Weapon

[Zorachus]

Thank the lords BoS spec is dead. Worst thing ever for DK dps. Was very difficult to get it just right to do high damage.

The current Obliteration is a million times better.

[Gungnir]

I really miss BoS.
Atleast it took some minor thought compared to the absolutely braindead spam the spec otherwise has. Had to switch my main for Antorus since I couldn't deal with the Obliteration "playstyle" if you can even call it a playstyle.

[Deleted]

Fair enough. Do you like the current Obliteration spec then?

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I enjoy the current Frost spec. It is simple, but I mean all specs are, and always have been (speaking specifically to the ridiculous myth that people thought specs were complex before the pruning, we are - generally speaking - looking at the most complex the specs have ever been).

My problem with BoS wasn't damage, it was fine, and wasn't difficulty, if you had done a fight before, you would know how and when to pop it and when not to for fear of losing uptime. It was just that I found the gameplay boring and all talents were picked to pair up with the final talent. I just did not find it enjoyable.

Having said that, a lot of people seemed to enjoy it so killing it completely didn't seem to be the right thing to do, an effort should have been made to get them both to as similar damage as possible.

[Volitar]

we are - generally speaking - looking at the most complex the specs have ever been)

[Kaver]

Having said that, a lot of people seemed to enjoy it so killing it completely didn't seem to be the right thing to do, an effort should have been made to get them both to as similar damage as possible.

This exactly! I would never agree with anybody being forced to play the BoS spec as it has a very specific playstyle that a lot of people don’t like, but I don’t understand why it was necessary to kill it off.

[Icosidodecahedron]

I'm glad it's dead. As much as people want to believe it was high skillcap or whatever, it was literally just press BoS and mash obliterate or press hungering rune weapon to keep generating RP. The legendary ring and belt made possible keeping it up for ridiculous amounts of time but if the boss happened to move away for a few seconds or you had to soak something or you had to switch to adds on the other end of the room (coupled with our general lack of mobility) you were fucked over cause breath just dropped. All that being said, it still has very niche applications like on mythic Kingaroth where breath can be reliably used on every add phase for great burst, and that's how it should stay. Situationally viable but definitely not the only choice.

[Deleted]

Please enlighten me as to a time where specs were more complex. And do not confuse complex with more buttons.

I'll wait.

[Noxina]

I guess you are one of those who though picking 1/2/3/4/5% more crit talents was good for the gameplay and healthy for the game?


Personally I'm not a huge fan of Obliteration spec, I do miss WoD BoS though, not the rubbish RNG fest we had in NH.
The best thing would to give us a choice to be honest, so when we grow tired of one, we can swap. Instead of just going with the same boring thing all the time, as you said - every spec grows boring in the end, if we don't get to option to play something else.

[Kaver]

I'm glad it's dead. As much as people want to believe it was high skillcap or whatever, it was literally just press BoS and mash obliterate or press hungering rune weapon to keep generating RP. The legendary ring and belt made possible keeping it up for ridiculous amounts of time but if the boss happened to move away for a few seconds or you had to soak something or you had to switch to adds on the other end of the room (coupled with our general lack of mobility) you were fucked over cause breath just dropped. All that being said, it still has very niche applications like on mythic Kingaroth where breath can be reliably used on every add phase for great burst, and that's how it should stay. Situationally viable but definitely not the only choice.

I do agree. The BoS rotation was not very difficult when you had practiced it for a few times. However it was a bit more punishing than the Obliteration spec in the context that if you were a bit sluppy and messed up the rotation, your dps would be reduced severely. And you're completely right that it was a pain in the ass for fights with a lot of movement, so the BoS spec should definitely not be the only viable spec.

I just hate that I can really only play the Obliteration spec right now. One or two bosses where I am able to use another spec is not enough for me. I don't want the Obliteration spec to be removed or anything, but I would just like another fun alternative that is viable for all fights not only 2-3 bosses. I don't see why one spec should exclude the other.

I really like Death Knight but in BoA I'm going to reroll to a class with 3 dps specs cause I'm tired of having only 2 specs to play when Blizzard apparently can't avoid making cookie cutter builds. In my opinion every spec in the game should have 3 viable builds based on the 3 level 100 talent, but I can see it is not going to happen... sadly.

[Deleted]

BoS still very much alive:

top 3 logs on Felhounds are all BoS

4 of the top 10 on AHC are BoS

Top 6 logs on portal are all BoS

Top 10 logs on kingaroth are all BoS

Basically it's more of a burst cleave spec now, and even on the ST fights there are plenty of BoS logs in the top 100. BoS however still has the same issues as NH, namely that it is ridiculously reliant on ME and belt procs, so when tuned equally, BoS rarely wins.

[Nemesquish]

BoS still very much alive:

top 3 logs on Felhounds are all BoS

4 of the top 10 on AHC are BoS

Top 6 logs on portal are all BoS

Top 10 logs on kingaroth are all BoS

Basically it's more of a burst cleave spec now, and even on the ST fights there are plenty of BoS logs in the top 100. BoS however still has the same issues as NH, namely that it is ridiculously reliant on ME and belt procs, so when tuned equally, BoS rarely wins.

Them being top has nothing to do with it being good, Thats all scumbag damage and borderline useless.

If a group wants to keep the dogs stacked and probably wipe, sure BoS is good, If a guild doesnt kill adds on HC and you get to pump on them, sure its good.Doesnt help you kill the boss, those adds are free...Sure it does great cheese damage on Kin, but those adds are free it doesnt help you kill the boss. See the pattern here?

Being a scumbag doesnt help you kill bosses, being Rank 1 doesnt mean you helped the raid the most, Same theory as kicking adds on Portal keeper right away to proc sehpuz, you're not helping anyone except yourself.

Priority damage>>>>>>Cheesy add damage, always will be.

[Kaver]

BoS still very much alive:

top 3 logs on Felhounds are all BoS

4 of the top 10 on AHC are BoS

Top 6 logs on portal are all BoS

Top 10 logs on kingaroth are all BoS

Basically it's more of a burst cleave spec now, and even on the ST fights there are plenty of BoS logs in the top 100. BoS however still has the same issues as NH, namely that it is ridiculously reliant on ME and belt procs, so when tuned equally, BoS rarely wins.

You're right about the facts of the logs. Can't argue with that.

My problem with the current BoS is that it just dont feel good for sustained damage. This is mainly because of Empowered Rune Weapon being a 3 min cool down. A quick fix would be to just make it a part of the BoS talent that the cd of ERW was reduced to 2 min.

I really want a great alternative for the Obliteration spec that can be used in all situations. No one should be forced to use Obliteration and no one should be forced to use BoS. But give us both alternatives in great versions and people can choose for themselves

For me, having 3 viable T100 talents for both Frost and Unholy would be like having 6 different specs. The T100 talent should change the style of the rotation (e.g. Dark Arbiter vs Soul Reaper) and the choice between single target damage and AOE should be in a different row. I would therefore for example move defile to a different row. The T100 talent would then be Dark Arbiter, Soul Reaper and a new third option which all gave the same in terms of performance but changed the rotation of the spec completely so it would feel almost like 3 individual specs (a little exaggerated maybe Also sorry for suddenly switching to Unholy but I felt it was great for my point)

[Tradu]

Them being top has nothing to do with it being good, Thats all scumbag damage and borderline useless.

If a group wants to keep the dogs stacked and probably wipe, sure BoS is good, If a guild doesnt kill adds on HC and you get to pump on them, sure its good.Doesnt help you kill the boss, those adds are free...Sure it does great cheese damage on Kin, but those adds are free it doesnt help you kill the boss. See the pattern here?

Being a scumbag doesnt help you kill bosses, being Rank 1 doesnt mean you helped the raid the most, Same theory as kicking adds on Portal keeper right away to proc sehpuz, you're not helping anyone except yourself.

Priority damage>>>>>>Cheesy add damage, always will be.

You what? The adds are literally the entire fight on Kin'garoth. And on dogs BoS is the best talent for the best speedkill strat, so that's pretty relevant.

[Grmmppff]

Please enlighten me as to a time where specs were more complex. And do not confuse complex with more buttons.

I'll wait.

ever played a feral? before pruning ofc...bleed snapshotting and stuff, was rather complex tbh...so much so that people whined about it being too complex....and well...BoS was more complex than the "press-the-flashing-button" nonsense we have now with almost every spec of every class

[Nemesquish]

You what? The adds are literally the entire fight on Kin'garoth. And on dogs BoS is the best talent for the best speedkill strat, so that's pretty relevant.

The adds stopped being important after the 1st week, Theres pretty much nothing to do for the last 10 seconds of those phases cause all the adds are dead....If our guild did more boss damage we would kill the boss much faster.

Basically the adds die without doing mongo bullshit. But if there was 1..(yes 1) fight that BoS is decent on, it would be Kin.

I was just using all the fights the quoted person listed as such it would be just as useful to the raid to not be BoS.