How do we feel these days about M+ scoring?

[enlly]

You'll have to order pizza while answering the poll I guess. I'll bring the beer.

Can I go ¿?

[munkeyinorbit]

The biggest issue with the score is that it punishes people for avoiding certain dungeons.

The score should be an average of your best runs rather a total which records zero for dungeons you haven't done.

People have valid reasons for sticking to the same dungeons (gear mostly). Doesn't make them bad players, but raider.io score rates players who stick to a small roster of dungeons very badly.

That would unfairly inflate scores for people who are shit. Why bother "risking" your score by doing some of the notoriously difficult ones? Either scrap the whole system or base it on every dungeon, even the ones you haven't done. If you cannot be arsed getting your score up or are too bad to even get a high score then tough shit. The player base correctly labels you bad and you must take the consequences. BTW my score is probably terrible. I did a 10 once and I don't even care if I can get into a mythic+. If I feel like doing it, it'll be for fun and it'll be with friends.

[Ophenia]

This score is bullshit for the simple reason that the fact you successfully ran SotT+10 and all other dungeons in +25 with fortified affixes doesn't mean you'll be the perfect choice for a SotT+15 Tyrannical.

But your Score will be somewhere around 4k so yeah you're the best player ever. Lol sure.

I have nearly 3k on my Demon Hunter because I played with my friend during the Volcanic/Fortified/Quaking week and did a lot of 20+. But there are still a few dungeons I hate (= I have avoided them all the xpac) where I wouldn't know when to use defensive cooldowns for a few tyrannical encounters.

[Reavers]

Firatha
I tried to pm you but couldn’t
I’m looking for a guy named bercilak
Were you a part of runescape reavers?

[ID811717]

This score is bullshit for the simple reason that the fact you successfully ran SotT+10 and all other dungeons in +25 with fortified affixes doesn't mean you'll be the perfect choice for a SotT+15 Tyrannical.

This assumes that there are no transferable skills, and you start from a blank page in each dungeon. That is ridiculous.
For players that have all 22+ keys on farm, any new dungeon on +15 will be very easy. (On +25 fortified the bosses have a bit more health than in +21 tyrannical, and they hit a bit harder than in +23 tyrannical, so +22 seems a good sweet point for generalizations).

I timed (the overtuned) SotT+15 tyrannical on the first week it was released (September) in a full pug party where each of us had all +18-20 keys on farm. With Antorus gear and after SotT received many nerfs, it's a complete joke now, sorry (that's true for the hypothetical experienced M+ players that previously avoided SotT keys... I don't want to claim that it's easy for more casual players).

[Ophenia]

Those guys taking everything literally. Hyperbole not allowed around them !

MMO-Champ is really boring these days. Too many elitist guys who can't understand basic stuff.

[ID811717]

If you actually ment "you won't necessarily be good at SotT+15 tyrannical even if you did all other dungeons on +17" then you are right. May be also applies to+18? Doubtful about +19. Once you get into +20, I'm certainly calling you out. If your hyperbole inflates that to +25, you no longer make any sense whatsoever.

[Lord Pebbleton]

It sucks.
It may be good in top end mythics when you are going for M18+. But as an ilvl969 I shouldn't even be checked for a pitiful +15. I don't know if that was ever a reason for being declined, but I'd be pretty angry if that thing was even remotely responsible.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I voted option #7, because I've been told that Raider.Io only takes into the account only the players that do their Mythic+ runs at the first half of the week, but I usually only have the time to do my runs at the weekend, at that point I'm not even considered for a good score because of that.

That used to be an issue, but Blizz increased the number of results they report from top 100 to top 500, allowing Raider.IO to do the same. You should have no problem getting your runs recorded.

- - - Updated - - -

It sucks.
It may be good in top end mythics when you are going for M18+. But as an ilvl969 I shouldn't even be checked for a pitiful +15. I don't know if that was ever a reason for being declined, but I'd be pretty angry if that thing was even remotely responsible.

I had a 970 healer in a +16 this week that was terribad. Died 12 times and I finally gave up trying to brez. We essentially 4-manned the dungeon. You can get 970 gear in a casual guild just running H because titan forged. A casual guild might not mind carrying that nice person who grey parses but is fun to hang out with. In a 5 man, however, one weak player can really hold back the team (especially tank or healer).

[Ielenia]

That used to be an issue, but Blizz increased the number of results they report from top 100 to top 500, allowing Raider.IO to do the same. You should have no problem getting your runs recorded.

Maybe. I kind of just slowly stopped doing high M+ past 15, and have only been doing it once per week. Got tired of being denied since of low score, so I just usually do it with my guild.

[Quag]

I like it. Completely accept that it has its flaws, and I might be in the minority here but I almost never pug M+ and run with guildies most evenings. One f the attractions for me is that it actually gives me an incentive to run dungeons that I don't need gear from, and I have really enjoyed seeing our guild progress through the mythics.

At first even unlocking at 10 or a 15 key was a real achievement that only a few of us could manage, now we are trying our best to complete every dungeon on a 20 in time, and I know I can only speak from my perspective, but for me I really enjoy this type of progression.

But as I dont PUG, most of the disadvantages discussed so far have little to no impact on me.

[Ophenia]

If you actually ment "you won't necessarily be good at SotT+15 tyrannical even if you did all other dungeons on +17" then you are right. May be also applies to+18? Doubtful about +19. Once you get into +20, I'm certainly calling you out. If your hyperbole inflates that to +25, you no longer make any sense whatsoever.

We don't really give a damn about Fortified performances during Tyrannical weeks, especially in Legion where you can mostly stunlock every single trash mob from pull to death.

Fortified weeks are usually zerged, inflating your MM+ score, which does not reflect your real skill anymore. Plus, the fact you're good in a dungeon doesn't mean you won't be a burden on another one.

I've done a few runs with 2k5-3k+ people in SotT, and as they probably never set a foot there in a serious setup (either high key or middle tyrannical key), they often don't know what to do here. As a result, "intermission" phase on first boss lasts forever (sometimes coupled with this awesome Lust on pull), bird and 3rd boss never gets interrupted (or only when we shouldn't waste interrupts), and bloodlust is randomly used on L'ura or void bolts not soaked etc.
I like SotT but it's painful to PUG because a lots of people don't care about this dungeon or dislike it completely.

If you really believe this score is enough to know your pickup-mates skills, that's awesome. Really.
That's the same as artificially inflating your ilvl by equipping (or just keeping, now) whatever bullshit you have in your bags with random stats. You'll still be a burden, and if you believe the guy will perform well because whatever addon shows you this guy has 3k MS and 960ilvl, that's really a low knowledge of everything about this game's content.

[Lord Pebbleton]

I had a 970 healer in a +16 this week that was terribad. Died 12 times and I finally gave up trying to brez. We essentially 4-manned the dungeon. You can get 970 gear in a casual guild just running H because titan forged. A casual guild might not mind carrying that nice person who grey parses but is fun to hang out with. In a 5 man, however, one weak player can really hold back the team (especially tank or healer).

I can agree with that, but I've been clearing +15s for months now. I don't want to go higher because the rewards cap at 15; but I feel like I sometimes get rejected because group leaders want to act all important by setting high requisites when the key doesn't usually call for it. Now don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want the requisites to be dropped (like the guy in the "out of control" thread with the ghost logs), I'd just be annoyed if my latest unlucky run were to skew my chances in a group. I usually get invited by the second-third group I apply to anyway. I don't even exactly know how it works... For example, in my last group we had this guy that died maybe 10 times and always blamed everything but himself (we didn't do it in time); does this lower my score or something?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I can agree with that, but I've been clearing +15s for months now. I don't want to go higher because the rewards cap at 15; but I feel like I sometimes get rejected because group leaders want to act all important by setting high requisites when the key doesn't usually call for it. Now don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want the requisites to be dropped (like the guy in the "out of control" thread with the ghost logs), I'd just be annoyed if my latest unlucky run were to skew my chances in a group. I usually get invited by the second-third group I apply to anyway. I don't even exactly know how it works... For example, in my last group we had this guy that died maybe 10 times and always blamed everything but himself (we didn't do it in time); does this lower my score or something?

Nah your scores are based on your best runs for each instance. If someone wants, they can pull up all your runs, but that's not likely to happen unless you're applying to a 20+ with an elite group.

[ID811717]

We don't really give a damn about Fortified performances during Tyrannical weeks, especially in Legion where you can mostly stunlock every single trash mob from pull to death.

Fortified weeks are usually zerged, inflating your MM+ score, which does not reflect your real skill anymore.

The bosses on (X+2) fortified always deal more damage than bosses on +X tyrannical.
You can use the scaling numbers to compare the difficulty across fortified/tyrannical keys.

If you really believe this score is enough to know your pickup-mates skills, that's awesome. Really.
That's the same as artificially inflating your ilvl by equipping (or just keeping, now) whatever bullshit you have in your bags with random stats. You'll still be a burden, and if you believe the guy will perform well because whatever addon shows you this guy has 3k MS and 960ilvl, that's really a low knowledge of everything about this game's content.

Not sure whether that's aimed at me, since I did not volunteer to defend M+ scores as the definite skill metric. I do not think that way, but the scores are still very useful. Especially in the form of a carrot-on-a-stick, which motivates players to improve so they can get higher scores. Sure, getting from 2500 score to 2700 score does not mean you actually improved, but by the time you reach, say, 4.5k score, I bet you learned a lot on your way there.

As far as this hypothetical "3k MS and 960 ilvl" guy is concerned: I will instant-reject him from +23 and instant-invite him to +10. And based on his score, I have a rough idea how I would act for most other key difficulties (depending on dungeon/affixes/group composition). For +15, I will almost always instant-invite this player, expect for very specific cases. As the key difficulty increases, I will be more likely to check his raider.io profile to see his past runs in the specific dungeon.

Also, as I mentioned above, this all depends on my own experience. If +15 was a progress content for me, I would spend more time on background checking players that I invite to +15. The more experience I have, the more I can carry groups in lower keys, the more careless I can be with invites.

At the end of the day, scores provide a very rough metric of player's experience. You can use it in smart ways and benefit from it a lot, or you can try to perceive it as a definite skill indicator, get burned, and start hating the scores. (You might also hate it because people set unreasonable requirements for easy keys... That's a valid reason, I have certainly been rejected a lot on my alts in the distant past, I know the frustration).

[Deleted]

Didn't know about it.

[Spotnick]

It's a good system for people pushing keys.

It's a ridiculous system however when you just want to do your weekly +15.

The only important info then is to know if the people had success with current affixes and current dungeon you queue for.. the global score is only important if you are planning multiple runs with people...

Good for me I main a healer, usually when people see 976 ilvl they don't really bother with the artificial epeen score. but it's a real thing if you try to do it on your dps alts, that's for sure. But I also noticed it's a lot easier to get in groups on mondays before the reset, people are less selective.

[Fappy]

I never pug keys so I have never had a reason to boost my score. Mine is pretty low because my guildies straight up don't run certain keys, which I am fine with. Sounds like a pretty annoying system for those that live in the pug world though.

[david0925]

I think it should be normalized by spec but otherwise it's fine.

Doing a 22 on a warlock is a very different experience than on an Enhancement Shaman, for instance.

[Alphatorg]

The way I see it:
if you're running with friends/guild: m+score doesn't affect you
if you're running running high keys with strangers: m+score is a very useful asset to your group building
if you're an antisocial, lazy and enjoy acting like an entitled brat: you go to mmo-champion and complain because m+score may or may not lock you out of groups.