Fire legendary bracers makes a comeback as a talent in BfA.

[Deleted]

*snip*

I agree to some degree. Classic was kind of messy, but since leveling took ages and you got the abilities step by step you had time to get to know each and every ability even if it only had limited uses. What they're doing now is in my opinion even worse when it comes to new players. You level quickly until max level with almost broken specs and like 3-4 abilities and once you reach max level you have multiple convoluted systems stacked ontop one another.

You have to go through countless artifact traits, try to understand synergies between legendaries or how to use or combine them properly and find out how the netherlight crucible works. When you've gone through everything you have in most cases in my opinion very fun classes. But once you get into a new expansions everything is thrown out the window. Now you lose the flexibility you had before of having artifact abilities base line or being able to swap legendaries in and out. Instead you now have to lock yourself into specific talents and the grind to make your class actually work begins again. Expansions are not supposed to feel like losing something at first.

But the majority of player base (and the newer players), the one blizzard caters to, would have a hard time sorting through all the abilities and performing, resulting in them getting shit on by elitist, resulting in them not giving blizzard money.

This is SO true for players going blindly into legion. They're getting completely and utterly demolished by experienced players. I have never seen something like this before. How you use this as an example to defend the current systems is beyond me.

[Sparklelord]

You level quickly until max level

Are we playing the same game? Leveling is no longer quick. Next argument please.

Instead you now have to lock yourself into specific talents and the grind to make your class actually work begins again.

Yeah because you could respec talents/PvPtalents/artifact traits and there's no way blizzard would do a similar system. Again, are we playing the same game?

Expansions are not supposed to feel like losing something at first.

Yeah, except all your gear that you grinded so hard being replaced by quest greens and the part where that's (losing abilities) happened literally EVERY expansion. Some abilities just evolve. Hell, a lot of them legit replace older moves. See Sin rogues using Sinister Strike till they get Mutilate at level 40 and then it replaces Sinister Strike in both functionality and outright as an ability. Would you prefer to keep Sinister Strike in the books? I think not cause then you legit have newer/casual players spamming Sinister Strike instead of the optimal ability.

Remember, Blizzard wants the game on autopilot for newer/casual players, aka they want to raise the skill floor and lower the skill ceiling and bring all players much closer in line. It's legit the reason (there's a quote out there somewhere, see Poison Bomb) why they leave RNG abilities/traits in game. Like it or not, that's how it is. I don't care for it as I lean into the above-average playgroup and I like options but I see how it's a necessary evil, much like addons. You remove addons from the game, drop the skill floor and raise the ceiling and you'll have an even more dead MMORPG than you already do. As it is, those things all bridge the skill gap a fair amount and make it possible to play with friends that aren't amazing or raid with a casual guild.

This is SO true for players going blindly into legion. They're getting completely and utterly demolished by experienced players. I have never seen something like this before. How you use this as an example to defend the current systems is beyond me.

Again, happens ever expansion. If anything, this expansion, according to you, was testament to the fact that 'more abilities=more player confusing=more players getting shit on'. This is exactly why blizzard wants to remove options and choices. They're removing LFR and making the who game LFR+mythic raiding/mythic+ dungeons for the esport aspect. If you don't understand this I can't help you. All we can do is sitback and enjoy the ride while it lasts.

[Deleted]

Are we playing the same game? Leveling is no longer quick. Next argument please.

Compared to classic/bc/wrath there is not even a comparison in terms of leveling speed not even considering the max level boost.

Yeah because you could respec talents/PvPtalents/artifact traits and there's no way blizzard would do a similar system. Again, are we playing the same game?

Did you even read what i wrote?

Yeah, except all your gear that you grinded so hard being replaced by quest greens and the part where that's (losing abilities) happened literally EVERY expansion. Some abilities just evolve. Hell, a lot of them legit replace older moves. See Sin rogues using Sinister Strike till they get Mutilate at level 40 and then it replaces Sinister Strike in both functionality and outright as an ability. Would you prefer to keep Sinister Strike in the books? I think not cause then you legit have newer/casual players spamming Sinister Strike instead of the optimal ability.

Completely beside the point I was making. The new quest greens are still an improvement for your character and you can always keep the looks you farmed through tmog. I was talking about gameplay the color of the items you are wearing doesn't affect the way your spec plays. Not sure what point you wanted to make with your sinister strike example but k.

Again, happens ever expansion. If anything, this expansion, according to you, was testament to the fact that 'more abilities=more player confusing=more players getting shit on'. This is exactly why blizzard wants to remove options and choices. They're removing LFR and making the who game LFR+mythic raiding/mythic+ dungeons for the esport aspect. If you don't understand this I can't help you. All we can do is sitback and enjoy the ride while it lasts.

What are you even talking about. The artifact, legendary and netherlight crucible gave you ONE ability. So using it as an example for a correlation between amount of abilities and difficulty to get into as a new player makes no sense. "They're removing LFR and making the who game LFR+mythic raiding/mythic+ dungeons for the esport aspect. If you don't understand this I can't help you." - Yep I don't understand that. Maybe you could help me by forming a cohesive sentence?

[Sparklelord]

Compared to classic/bc/wrath there is not even a comparison in terms of leveling speed not even considering the max level boost.

Maybe compared to classic or BC but it's def a lot slower now. Have you even tried leveling now? Without heirlooms? You know, those things new players most likely won't have? Yeah, no one mentioned level boost (normally not a max level boost, just 10 levels behind) until I destroyed your argument. In that regard there are these things called 'class trials', maybe you've heard of them. Still rough getting thrown into that as a new player but least it helps. New players should probably avoid popping their leveling boost til they've leveled one char a fair amount anyways.

Did you even read what i wrote?

Yeah, it's right here:

Instead you now have to lock yourself into specific talents and the grind to make your class actually work begins again.

I just figured you were somehow talking about the Azerite gear because there's no way you'd be so asanine as to complain about 'locking' (whatever that means) yourself into talents. You know, a system that has existed since the start of the game and hasn't changed much outside of Dual Spec and eventually out right changing spec/talents whenever you want. I know you're apparently new and all so you probably didn't know but you used to have to go to your class trainer to respec (re-specialize/redo) your talents. You couldn't just pop a tome in the middle of raid and completely change your class. No to mention the gold cost associated with that was quite a bit higher. If anything was 'locked in' it was back then and even then it still wasn't locked in so not sure what you're going on about.

You know, unless of course you're referring to there always being one talent that's always best and everyone running a cookie cutter build which, as a reminder, is EVERY expansion EVER. 'But Sparkle, the legendaries, they let me shake up my playstyle' No they don't. You either pick your playstyle and have fun at the expense of subpar damage/healing/tanking or you do what the majority of players do and 'lock' yourself into a cookie cutter build. Spoiler: Both options have ALWAYS been present

Completely beside the point I was making. The new quest greens are still an improvement for your character and you can always keep the looks you farmed through tmog. I was talking about gameplay the color of the items you are wearing doesn't affect the way your spec plays.

Oh okay, I thought when you said you felt like you were "LOSING" something you meant it, not this extremely narrow "but my ability :<". A handful of the artifact abilities are becoming baseline for classes and you're getting new shit.

Not sure what point you wanted to make with your sinister strike example but k.

The sinister strike example, since you somehow couldn't put 2 and 2 together (4 btw) was that you can lose abilities and get new ones in their place. Seriously, what's the difference between an ability evolving into a better version vs being given that better version and getting to keep the subpar version (worse in everyway)? Just to have a bigger spellbook? That's called bloat my friend. If there's some other reason go ahead and fill me in. I'll wait.

What are you even talking about. The artifact, legendary and netherlight crucible gave you ONE ability. So using it as an example for a correlation between amount of abilities and difficulty to get into as a new player makes no sense.

Yeah because people juggling legendaries and new artifact abilities/traits (don't forget PvP talents) didn't offer a greater array of customization than players have seen in a long time. That was the point. That you're asking for more customization (or a really bloated/GCD hungry rotation) and saying at the same time that it confuses newer/casual players. Once again, Blizzard wants to keep it as simple as possible for new players/casuals (still nothing wrong with that, don't roast me, bro)

Yep I don't understand that. Maybe you could help me by forming a cohesive sentence?

Beginning to realize you're either the world's worst troll or you live under a rock (say hi to Patrick for me). You're honestly beyond help.
I thought you'd figure out that the 'casual/LFR' was separate from the 'mythic esports', guess I was wrong, again. Let me break it down for you like I would a small child (the statement not the child):
Blizzard wants a big esports market (they have a fairly large one at this point)
Blizzard is pushing Arena/mythic dungeons and to a lesser extent mythic world first raiding
(Potential) players see this and also want to play so they hop on WoW and wanna get right into but they're not nearly as good
The bulk of the game is turbo LFR/causual/new player friendly
Blizzard is currently designing systems to procedurally generate new content without having to do it themselves and they've already streamlined the new race creation process (read: all models use the same wireframe skeleton so they don't have to animate each new class they design)
Put it all together yet?
Esports = extra revenue/hype for games to draw new players in
Casual/LFR = Keeping (most) players in
Spam Allied Races = New stuff to keep players excited/interested
Game auto designs itself = They get to sit back and collect your monies
You seeing it yet? Probably not. I give up.

[Deleted]

I get the feeling that's what the legendaries were. A way to float a ton of new ideas out. Then they find the couple that end up working. As in make the rotation interesting and maybe just a bit more fun. Now that shit is getting dumped into the tree. This next expansion will likely do the same with a couple dozen things in some manner.

Its a way to introduce things without being committed completely to it.

Guess I was in the minority who never found hard casting Pyroblast fun

[Ragnork58]

I am really happy for this change. I felt since day one that the bracer proc felt like a necessity for the spec. Adding that little extra to the spec to make it feel fun. Now if only they do something about that one tier with Ring of Frost and Ice Ward.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Guess I was in the minority who never found hard casting Pyroblast fun

I don't think hard casting pyro is exactly fun. But the game play that a proc happens that has me make a choice within the rotation kind of is when it isn't over done. It is more or less do something outside of the standard "rotation" thats rewarding when done right and punishing when not. Where it kind of falls flat is being very RNG. Where I have done almost a mil more DPS because procs were insane on one pull and a half mill less because procs were so few and far between. A smoother proc line would have made it a lot superior.

[XzistencE]

I don't think hard casting pyro is exactly fun. But the game play that a proc happens that has me make a choice within the rotation kind of is when it isn't over done. It is more or less do something outside of the standard "rotation" thats rewarding when done right and punishing when not. Where it kind of falls flat is being very RNG. Where I have done almost a mil more DPS because procs were insane on one pull and a half mill less because procs were so few and far between. A smoother proc line would have made it a lot superior.

This was my feeling as well. I actually like the bracer proc as it makes you do something different outside of fireball/fireblast/pyro chains which is cool. What isn't cool? Going long periods of no procs on one fight and on the next, having what feels like an unlimited amount of procs. Your DPS varying by such a large margin that has no bearing on your play of the class feels rough. Such is the life of RNG I guess.

It would be interesting I think if they made the new proc ability have some bad luck protection like fireball hot streak casts do...

[Deleted]

This was my feeling as well. I actually like the bracer proc as it makes you do something different outside of fireball/fireblast/pyro chains which is cool. What isn't cool? Going long periods of no procs on one fight and on the next, having what feels like an unlimited amount of procs. Your DPS varying by such a large margin that has no bearing on your play of the class feels rough. Such is the life of RNG I guess.

It would be interesting I think if they made the new proc ability have some bad luck protection like fireball hot streak casts do...

Doesn't the bracer proc use the card RNG system? This one. If not they could just do that.

[Deleted]

Doesn't the bracer proc use the card RNG system? This one. If not they could just do that.

Aye. The rng in getting the procs at the right time would still be there, but number would be better. It is difficult tho, because it also means if you get 3 at pull, you know your rotation would be zzz until 20 casts of. Pyro is over.

[XzistencE]

Doesn't the bracer proc use the card RNG system? This one. If not they could just do that.

I would have expected it to (didn't really know about this btw) but I don't see the bracers listed in the group on that site, though the list could be outdated. I don't know the exact best way to make it work, but I do know it can be frustrating when it doesn't proc and maddening when no procs happen inside combust windows.

[TyrianFC]

Added in a new build I just noticed: Pyroclasm (aka the Legion legendary bracer effect) now has a UI graphic popup above your character when it procs. (Similar to Hot Streak, Ice lance etc)

I'm sure most people who use the Legion bracer were using Weak Auras or similar to track when it procced, but now its part of the default UI.

[Deleted]

I would have expected it to (didn't really know about this btw) but I don't see the bracers listed in the group on that site, though the list could be outdated. I don't know the exact best way to make it work, but I do know it can be frustrating when it doesn't proc and maddening when no procs happen inside combust windows.

Asked about it in the mage discord, someone (winnrie, apparently it was discussed in #research) said it was true RNG.

[Ladyoftheforest]

I was/am hoping that the legendary headpiece would be merged into a perk or talent. I think the bracers don't do much for the Glacial Spike talent.

[Deleted]

Yeah. Having 100% mobility on your rotation for 30% of the encounter is simply way too good to pass up on any fight that isnt patchwerk.

There is also the fact that current my scorch crits hit higher then my non crit pyro's.

[Valkaneer]

I am not a fan of the level 100 talents, pretty much none of them are any good except in a raid or Mythic plus. Mainly because you never get to use them due to long cooldowns and low proc rates.

[Deleted]

I am not a fan of the level 100 talents, pretty much none of them are any good except in a raid or Mythic plus. Mainly because you never get to use them due to long cooldowns and low proc rates.

Really? I'd have thought that Meteor is pretty decent for outdoor/leveling stuff and probably fine for pvp as well, even though I'm not too well informed on that front.

[Valkaneer]

Really? I'd have thought that Meteor is pretty decent for outdoor/leveling stuff and probably fine for pvp as well, even though I'm not too well informed on that front.

I think my highest meteor was 4500 damage my highest pyroclasm was 18000, and the dot from meteor was meh. I mean yeah so long as you're just fighting normal mobs meteor is what you'll be using probably because some damage is better than no damage and the spell is more redibly available, but if you want to fight rares and elites your own level or higher pyroclasm is better.

[Gungnir]

I am not a fan of the level 100 talents, pretty much none of them are any good except in a raid or Mythic plus. Mainly because you never get to use them due to long cooldowns and low proc rates.

Good thing nothing in WoW actually matters outside of raid or mythic plus.
Leveling and world content stopped mattering in WotLK.

[Valkaneer]

Good thing nothing in WoW actually matters outside of raid or mythic plus.
Leveling and world content stopped mattering in WotLK.

Of course it matters, when a lock can do his world quest in half the time it takes you because he has use of lvl 100 DPS abilities that are helpful in and outside of a raid you're spending a lot more time than he is for the exact same things. This means he has time to do dungeons and mythics that you dont. It all adds up. To and try to solo 4 mobs your own level all at one time and then try that same thing on a lock, Hunter, shaman, Rogue in Alpha. Your going to find you either have a very hard time or just plain can't do it. While most everyone else can, and fire is suppose to be our higher AoE spec.