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  1. #401
    Horde is the most powerful for several reasons:

    Goblins still arguably possess the technology created during the Garrosh era - all this talk about Dwarven steam tanks and everyone seems to forget the giant metal scorpions with missile attachments and sawblade hands or the assortment of long-range artillery those apparently oh-so-crude and primitive Orcs have at their disposal. Orcs are bound to be more numerous now with the addition of Outland and Draenor to the universe, they're not a small group of refugees freshly crashed on Kalimdor anymore. Further, I haven't seen anyone mention the giant gun in the middle of Bilgewater Harbor with its sights set on Stormwind. Goodbye, Stormwind Navy. How many hits can Ironforge take with that thing?

    Forsaken plague has also been brought up, it goes without saying this would be devastating to the Alliance. Of course, there is the whole flying space ships of the Draenei to contend with - in my opinion, the only serious weapon against the Horde. But good luck getting them to use it against cities filled with civilian populations, and enjoy dodging mana bombs and suicidal zeppelin commanders. Its cute the Alliance think they stand a chance behind their teary eyed child king though.
    Last edited by DesmondCreighton; 2018-03-14 at 12:18 AM.

  2. #402
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by DesmondCreighton View Post
    Horde is the most powerful for several reasons:

    Goblins still arguable possess the technology created during the Garrosh era - all this talk about Dwarven steam tanks and everyone seems to forget the giant metal scorpions with missile attachments and sawblade hands or the assortment of long-range artillery those apparently oh-so-crude and primitive Orcs have at their disposal. Orcs are bound to be more numerous now with the addition of Outland and Draenor to the universe, they're not a small group of refugees freshly crashed on Kalimdor anymore. Further, I haven't seen anyone mention the giant gun in the middle of Bilgewater Harbor with its sights set on Stormwind. Goodbye, Stormwind Navy. How many hits can Ironforge take with that thing?

    Forsaken plague has also been brought up, it goes without saying this would be devastating to the Alliance. Of course, there is the whole flying space ships of the Draenei to contend with - in my opinion, the only serious weapon against the Horde. But good luck getting them to use it against cities filled with civilian populations, and enjoy dodging mana bombs and suicidal zeppelin commanders. Its cute the Alliance think they stand a chance behind their teary eyed child king though.
    Love your Arno Breker style avatar. Also, very good post to remind people of certain tools the Horde has in its arsenal.

    Horde and Alliance are more or less even when it comes to their military industry, demography and various other aspects that would determine power of each faction. Both have their perks and weak spots as well.

    I however must say that long term I see Horde being more powerful than Alliance. Migrating orcs from Outland and Draenor will be a tremendous boost for Orc population of Azeroth. Kalimdor falling to Horde armies will mean tons of resources that should be directed towards Iron Horde style industrialization.

  3. #403
    Deleted
    /watch?v=zpB_prsrZQA

  4. #404
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by DesmondCreighton View Post
    Horde is the most powerful for several reasons:

    Goblins still arguably possess the technology created during the Garrosh era - all this talk about Dwarven steam tanks and everyone seems to forget the giant metal scorpions with missile attachments and sawblade hands or the assortment of long-range artillery those apparently oh-so-crude and primitive Orcs have at their disposal. Orcs are bound to be more numerous now with the addition of Outland and Draenor to the universe, they're not a small group of refugees freshly crashed on Kalimdor anymore. Further, I haven't seen anyone mention the giant gun in the middle of Bilgewater Harbor with its sights set on Stormwind. Goodbye, Stormwind Navy. How many hits can Ironforge take with that thing?

    Forsaken plague has also been brought up, it goes without saying this would be devastating to the Alliance. Of course, there is the whole flying space ships of the Draenei to contend with - in my opinion, the only serious weapon against the Horde. But good luck getting them to use it against cities filled with civilian populations, and enjoy dodging mana bombs and suicidal zeppelin commanders. Its cute the Alliance think they stand a chance behind their teary eyed child king though.
    Assuming the gun in Bilgewater harbor is built by goblins, I'd bet it decimates half of Azshara along with the harbor in a catastrophic failiure before it hits any target of note half across the world.

    Not to mention in Mists the horde was ripped apart and suffered major losses in Orgrimmar due to Garrosh. Realistically the Horde should have less chances of a win from here, but developments in BfA may put them on par with the alliance, with the resources they can turn the even forests to.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazomir View Post
    Assuming the gun in Bilgewater harbor is built by goblins, I'd bet it decimates half of Azshara along with the harbor in a catastrophic failiure before it hits any target of note half across the world.

    Not to mention in Mists the horde was ripped apart and suffered major losses in Orgrimmar due to Garrosh. Realistically the Horde should have less chances of a win from here, but developments in BfA may put them on par with the alliance, with the resources they can turn the even forests to.
    Aww the "Goblin stuff always fails" thing that is only true when applied to small time personal jobs.

    Goblin stuff works. It just looks like it wont. When was the last time Goblin work failed?
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  6. #406
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazomir View Post
    Not to mention in Mists the horde was ripped apart and suffered major losses in Orgrimmar due to Garrosh.
    And Garrosh wiped a full contingent of Alliance elites with a single mana bomb, let alone ripping the entirety of their fleet apart. All of this before MoP even started.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  7. #407
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Aww the "Goblin stuff always fails" thing that is only true when applied to small time personal jobs.

    Goblin stuff works. It just looks like it wont. When was the last time Goblin work failed?
    When was the first time goblin work worked?

    As far as we know, there are no other super weapons of such size in the lore. Sure they can make a big bomb which is pretty simple. But a massive cannon of this size could be for showing off. Nevermind the fact that in the unlikely scenario it does work, it probably won't be able to hit a thing. Otherwise I see no reason why Sylvanas does not use it right away.

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazomir View Post
    When was the first time goblin work worked?

    As far as we know, there are no other super weapons of such size in the lore. Sure they can make a big bomb which is pretty simple. But a massive cannon of this size could be for showing off. Nevermind the fact that in the unlikely scenario it does work, it probably won't be able to hit a thing. Otherwise I see no reason why Sylvanas does not use it right away.
    honestly what use is there in simply taking a shot without a follow up plan? It's rather short sighted to just use it immediately with no reason beyond a desire to hrut the target (something sylvanas is repeatedly NOT shown as being what with all the plots and plans and schemes). Goblin tech is reliable in one particular field and that's explosive ordinance. A bomb or gun or fuel source? Goblin tech is where it's at. It's when they try and harness such effects for some other purpose that things get wonky (like turbo boots that often explode and send the user flying OR burn them alive)

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazomir View Post
    When was the first time goblin work worked?

    As far as we know, there are no other super weapons of such size in the lore. Sure they can make a big bomb which is pretty simple. But a massive cannon of this size could be for showing off. Nevermind the fact that in the unlikely scenario it does work, it probably won't be able to hit a thing. Otherwise I see no reason why Sylvanas does not use it right away.
    Since Warcraft 3?

    Goblins work has a far stronger history of working efficiently than not working, about the same track record as the sometimes malfunctioning Gnome stuff.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  10. #410
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Since Warcraft 3?

    Goblins work has a far stronger history of working efficiently than not working, about the same track record as the sometimes malfunctioning Gnome stuff.
    You got a point in saying goblin engineering works more often than not, but you are missing my point.

    I fail to remember any cannons that can shoot half across the world working in WoW Lore. Another couple of factors in the event that this cannon is actually operational here are accuracy, range, reliability, and re-usability.

    The closest we can get with a real world example (still smaller than what this cannon is) is the Schwerer Gustav, which had way less range than that and still was not that accurate.

    With that in mind, I fail to see how this goblin cannon has a reasonable chance to hit any important alliance target of note half across the world. If anything I'd the cannon has way more chance of malfunctioning after a few shots, either catastrophically or not.

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazomir View Post
    You got a point in saying goblin engineering works more often than not, but you are missing my point.

    I fail to remember any cannons that can shoot half across the world working in WoW Lore. Another couple of factors in the event that this cannon is actually operational here are accuracy, range, reliability, and re-usability.

    The closest we can get with a real world example (still smaller than what this cannon is) is the Schwerer Gustav, which had way less range than that and still was not that accurate.

    With that in mind, I fail to see how this goblin cannon has a reasonable chance to hit any important alliance target of note half across the world. If anything I'd the cannon has way more chance of malfunctioning after a few shots, either catastrophically or not.
    So your argument is, we haven't see it happen, so its not likely able to happen?
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by frogger237 View Post
    I'm dishonest that the Alliance quest mentions that everyone except for the pc is ordered only to observe?
    No, you're dishonest because you ignore the part where the Alliance PC is sent to blow up Horde shredders and steal their Azerite. That is obtainable only from dead Goblins because the Horde didn't leave any lying around, probably thinking it'd be enough to avoid having it stolen.


    Quote Originally Posted by frogger237 View Post
    Am I being dishonest that Blightcaller gives the pc a veiled threat and orders them to kill any Alliance they see?
    You're dishonest because you pretend Blightcaller giving the Horde PC this order equals Horde attacking first, because words = actions, apparently.


    Quote Originally Posted by frogger237 View Post
    AM I being dishonest that nearly all stealth kill quests have the stealth chars attack you because most classes cant detect stealth unless they are standing on them?
    Except the mechanic of stealthed NPCs becoming visible when you get too close has been in the game for years. At least since TBC. And given how the Alliance characters don't mention anything about their agents being discovered yet, but Horde questline starts with them being found out, Okham's razor dictates Alliance questline starts earlier. Which has been pointed out to you before. Which you deflected with "but muh Nathanos' orders equal actions". You're doing an awful job at arguing against your dishonesty. If anything, phrasing things the way you do here and brushing the actual dishonesty under the carpet is only more dishonesty on your part.


    Quote Originally Posted by frogger237 View Post
    Am I being dishonest that the Alliance quest specifically orders you to destroy inactive mechs?
    Them being inactive is irrelevant. If you blow up a car that's sitting in a parking you still commit a violent crime.


    Quote Originally Posted by frogger237 View Post
    The fact that Horde has kill on sight orders while the Alliance doesn't should make you realize that maybe your backing the wrong side in this conflict.
    If the Horde has kill on sight orders while the Alliance does not, but Alliance ends up attacking the Horde first anyway, the Horde having kill on sight order is meaningless to the topic of who struck first. Because words mean things.

    And Alliance had orders to steal Azerite. Which they do by killing Goblins. Given how there was no Azerite lying around, which the Alliance operatives giving the quest should know about given how they already had spies in the outpost (of which they inform the Alliance player right off the bat) and the Alliance character was told to get some anyway, they had to know that order meant killing Goblins carrying the Azerite. Them not spelling it outright matters little.


    Quote Originally Posted by frogger237 View Post
    Jesus dude you are so obsessed with the Horde its fucking scary. I should have realized not to engage you when I saw the shit you have spew at others claiming they are "facts"
    You failing to correct me contrary to your claims because you still want to pretend words equal action does not equate me being obsessed. It only equals you being wrong and your weak attempt at deflection failing to change the events of Silithus. Also, do quote what you're referring to in your second sentence as "shit" rather than hiding behind vague accusations like a paragon of courage. Chances are it'll end up with me quoting sources to you.


    Quote Originally Posted by frogger237 View Post
    BTW I play both factions and my main atm is a blood elf demon hunter and I have more horde chars than Alliance.
    About which I care very deeply.


    Quote Originally Posted by frogger237 View Post
    I don't mean Worgen means instant win, It does give you a boost to strength and durability so a single Orc is going to have a much harder time taking on a single worgen than a normal human. And the Horde gets owned by a couple quillboars. Bringing up shit like that is just silly when both sides have had shit like that happen to em.
    Which is still irrelevant. Orcs from internment camps alone were numerous enough that they could be successfully used to overthrow the Alliance of Lordaeron, Dalaran, Kul Tiras, Ironforge, Stormwind and Gnomeregan. That's more forces than humans of Stormwind (hint: a group of nations that include Stormwind is bound to have more forces than just Stormwind). And those aren't all Orcs that formed the New Horde, because Warsong Clan, Frostwolves and others were never captured.

    If just the internment camps Orcs were enough to defeat the Alliance after Stromgarde, Quel'Thalas and Gilneas left and after Alterac was destroyed, the internment camp Orcs combined with Orcs that eluded capture should outnumber just Stormwind humans greatly. So you could turn every citizen of Stormwind into a Worgen or even a Draconid or Ascended Elemental, that still wouldn't make the Alliance win.

    And the Horde never had a problem with Quillboars that threatened their very existence, as was the case with Stormwind and Gnolls. So you're comparing apples to oranges. Also, please. Your comment about Worgen directly followed the statement that the Horde realistically could not have a power relative to the Alliance.


    Quote Originally Posted by frogger237 View Post
    No but eventually the Alliance would take out any blight catapults aSAP and so she would need new tactics. Like burying blight mines and sacrificing a few soldiers to lead the Alliance army into an ambush.
    Which is super feasible when there's a wall and an army separating you from the catatpults.


    Quote Originally Posted by frogger237 View Post
    Do you really think if it wasn't for the plot that a couple gnome gyrocopters wouldn't have destroyed the blimp before it even got near em?
    When did Tides of War say anything about gyrocopters being present at Theramore? What I do recall it saying is that the aerial defense of the blimp was sufficient enough that it managed to hurt Kalecgos. Chances are grown up ancient dragons are more durable than gyrocopters.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2018-03-15 at 03:30 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Stuff
    Ok well since you apparently think Hitler did nothing wrong by ordering the death of the jews and only the people that actually did it are evil let me ask you this:

    How many destroyed mechs are in the Horde area? None? Why doesn't the Horde quest mention anything at all about being attacked?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wowhead View Post
    Hey <name>, I'm glad you're here. I'm in way over my head! Killer bugs, a strange substance... that GIANT sword sticking outta the ground... I don't have a good feelin' about this place! To make matters worse, I've been gettin' reports of Alliance spies snoopin' around the camp! Look kid, the Dark Lady has plans for this mysterious ore and I ain't going to be the one to dissapoint her, know what I mean? Get over to the mining camp and take out those SI:7 spies before they ruin the whole operation!
    http://www.wowhead.com/quest=50052/no-spies-allowed

    You would think if the Alliance attacked first they would make mention of the damage they caused or the people they killed and yet the quest only mentions spies......



    Is that finally enough proof?

  14. #414
    It seems the Horde is stronger. Thankfully the Horde is pretty stupid and usually weaken themselves with infighting(#teamSaurfang). Slyvanus is probably going to be LFR fodder. I hope Slyvanus' banshee screech causes alot of LFR wipes. Lmao.
    "Father, is it over? I see only darkness before me."

  15. #415
    but only to understand, really people are arguing that alliance blow up shredder without goblin in it because they are mercifull (despite this being still a military attack) and not because sabotaging is normally did in a way that dont having eyewitnesses is preferable, you know because they are infiltrating.

    and horde should be "evil" because nathanos ordered to kill spies? i mean, in our real world normally these spies are tortured to extrapolate informations...

    ok wanting to interpretate for your own ends. but this is over the top....

  16. #416
    alliance has only won against the horde when the horde goes into a civil war so.
    alliance sucks.
    alliance doubles sucks with their human masters.
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  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by frogger237 View Post
    Ok well since you apparently think Hitler did nothing wrong by ordering the death of the jews and only the people that actually did it are evil let me ask you this:
    Get lost with your slanderous nonsense. You not comprehending the difference between an order that was carried out before Jews did anything against Nazis and Nathanos making an order that is not carried out before Alliance sends a force into Horde territory is still not an argument. And is solely a problem with your comprehension and not proof of me thinking Hitler did nothing wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by frogger237 View Post
    How many destroyed mechs are in the Horde area? None? Why doesn't the Horde quest mention anything at all about being attacked?

    http://www.wowhead.com/quest=50052/no-spies-allowed

    You would think if the Alliance attacked first they would make mention of the damage they caused or the people they killed and yet the quest only mentions spies......

    Is that finally enough proof?
    Kinda forgot about this. First of all, we've been over this already. Arguing in circles is sad. Alliance quests don't mention them being attacked either. However, in the Alliance quest, the Alliance isn't discovered yet. In the Horde one, they are. Chronology is rather clear here. Secondly, you posting proof of Alliance violating the integrity of a Horde camp isn't exactly the retort you thought it to be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Get lost with your slanderous nonsense. You not comprehending the difference between an order that was carried out before Jews did anything against Nazis and Nathanos making an order that is not carried out before Alliance sends a force into Horde territory is still not an argument. And is solely a problem with your comprehension and not proof of me thinking Hitler did nothing wrong.




    Kinda forgot about this. First of all, we've been over this already. Arguing in circles is sad. Alliance quests don't mention them being attacked either. However, in the Alliance quest, the Alliance isn't discovered yet. In the Horde one, they are. Chronology is rather clear here. Secondly, you posting proof of Alliance violating the integrity of a Horde camp isn't exactly the retort you thought it to be.
    Unless you are saying the war between the Horde and Alliance hasn't ended then the Alliance has done nothing when Blightcaller orders you to kill any Alliance you see. And If the war hasn't ended then there is no reason they Alliance shouldn't have just ordered the Horde killed like Blightcaller does.

    There are no destroyed shredders and no dead goblins, Alliance attacked after the Horde. Silithus is neutral territory and the Alliance aren't in the Hordes camp they are in where they are mining. I guess Russia can just start drilling in the ocean near the US and its ok? And the Alliance does mention them needing some muscle as they are just spies which implies they were attacked.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by frogger237 View Post
    Unless you are saying the war between the Horde and Alliance hasn't ended then the Alliance has done nothing when Blightcaller orders you to kill any Alliance you see. And If the war hasn't ended then there is no reason they Alliance shouldn't have just ordered the Horde killed like Blightcaller does.

    There are no destroyed shredders and no dead goblins, Alliance attacked after the Horde. Silithus is neutral territory and the Alliance aren't in the Hordes camp they are in where they are mining. I guess Russia can just start drilling in the ocean near the US and its ok? And the Alliance does mention them needing some muscle as they are just spies which implies they were attacked.
    Quote Originally Posted by omeomorfismo View Post
    but only to understand, really people are arguing that alliance blow up shredder without goblin in it because they are mercifull (despite this being still a military attack) and not because sabotaging is normally did in a way that dont having eyewitnesses is preferable, you know because they are infiltrating.

    and horde should be "evil" because nathanos ordered to kill spies? i mean, in our real world normally these spies are tortured to extrapolate informations...

    ok wanting to interpretate for your own ends. but this is over the top....
    HE orders you to kill Any Alliance you see.

  19. #419
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Please avoid the use of real-world parallels to atrocities (e.g. WW2 and/or the Holocaust) for your examples concerning fantasy wars - applicable or not, they only distract and derail from the thread's general purpose.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  20. #420
    Pandaren Monk Forgottenone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by General Zanjin View Post
    alliance has only won against the horde when the horde goes into a civil war so.
    alliance sucks.
    alliance doubles sucks with their human masters.
    This comment alone should end the thread and enlighten everyone.


    Although I am curious because you brought up a good point, if the Horde hadn't gotten itself into civil wars/backstabbing would they have crushed the Alliance? During the first invasion it seems that one of the main reasons the old Horde lost was due to Gul'dan. The later war with Garrosh as leader again showed the main reason the "Iron Horde" lost was due to Garrosh' treatment of other races/his craziness. All of these threads are basically "What if" stuff anyways but I'd be genuinely interested to see how a fully united Horde does against the Alliance, assuming Sylvanas is allowed to Blight spam and rez dead Horde as her soldiers without anyone whining about it.

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