Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Strippling]

I mean if it's mechanically the same as a Paladin under the hood but you'd rather it not be called "paladin", we could call it Void Knight or something I guess. But if it's a paladin under the hood, has a beacon placing healing spec, a shield throwing tanking spec, and a two-handed melee dps spec, has the same exact skills as a paladin but with different names and visuals... is it really a completely different class? A completely different theme for sure, but mechanically speaking it would still be a paladin no?

As to the lore, the lore doesn't need retconning if the lore simply doesn't acknowledge them as paladins but rather as these hypothetical "Void Knights". Paladins would be the light wielding plate wearers with a beacon placing healing spec, a shield throwing tank spec, and a two-handed melee dps spec, and the hypothetical "Void Knights" would be the void wielding plate wearers with a beacon placing healing spec, a shield throwing tank spec, and a two-handed melee dps spec.

I wouldn't get too worked up over this little flight of fancy though. I don't think Blizzard would ever actually do such a thing. Especially not just to give Void Elves Paladins but "not paladins". For anything like this to happen Blizzard would have to want to open paladins up to a wider range of races overall, not just one allied race. And they'd have to come up with some compelling lore to make it work and have it make sense. I don't see any of that happening... I just think the concept of a "dark paladin/void knight" fits the "rule of cool" qualifier.

This is the call of the paladin: to protect the weak, to bring justice to the unjust, and to vanquish evil from the darkest corners of the world. These holy warriors are equipped with plate armor so they can confront the toughest of foes, and the blessing of the Light allows them to heal wounds and, in some cases, even restore life to the dead.

Straight from the WoW website.

Paladins are holy warriors who use the light. A "void themed" paladin would A) break the lore of the class, and B) be an entirely different class altogether.. as paladins are a class specifically defined by their "holy" warrior theme. The void fits no where in the paladin class fantasy. A void knight would be an entirely different class. Let's not ruin the lore of well established classes simply because of "muh void elf paladin"

[Beloren]

This is the call of the paladin: to protect the weak, to bring justice to the unjust, and to vanquish evil from the darkest corners of the world. These holy warriors are equipped with plate armor so they can confront the toughest of foes, and the blessing of the Light allows them to heal wounds and, in some cases, even restore life to the dead.

Straight from the WoW website.

Paladins are holy warriors who use the light. A "void themed" paladin would A) break the lore of the class, and B) be an entirely different class altogether.. as paladins are a class specifically defined by their "holy" warrior theme. The void fits no where in the paladin class fantasy. A void knight would be an entirely different class. Let's not ruin the lore of well established classes simply because of "muh void elf paladin"

Yeah, that's the traditional paladin, after which the class you play is named, not the adapated versions. Faces, it when certain classes cross to certain races, it's better they have a more racaially themeved version.

It is the developers that can't be bothered to adapt classes, in at least fx/ ability names and lore to be individual to each race. Face it, elven hunters are far more magical than non-elven ones, draenei , gnome , dwarf goblins woudl be far more engeineering and tech based, and in didfferen ways for each of them. Taht distinction is not made at all, they're all just hunters, rather than the elven ones being RAngers, dwarven ones being Mountaineers, and where warranted, some races having individual names. for essentially the same class.

WE saw that dilemma with Moon Priests, Forsaken Shadow priests and and Darkspear Loa Priests, who were just given the Light priest kit, because they refused to make the distinction, yet when the blood elves cam eout, they introduced the Blood Knight - which were paladins, but did not use the Light in that traditional sense, since then we have had similar unique iterations that is th elore version of the class, but teh actual class you play doesn't reflect that.

As a blood elf hunter you're in lore a ranger Farsrider, but you are called a hunter - although you're a ranger, the calss set is hunter. SAme with Kult'iran Tidesage, which isn't a traditional shaman, but may fall under the calss set Shaman.

It's become clear that the classes in wow are more like class sets, while the main themes have particular fanasies they have adaptations. The blood elves mage adaptiation is very fire and sun based magic, while the Highborne and Nightborne has that star and moon based magic, which is very differennt to fros and the type of arcane traditional human/high elf uses, which all mage classes are based on. The troll Arcanitol is obviously a differnet type of mage but really hasn't been expanded on yet.

Until they do, we can only wait.

[Kyriani]

This is the call of the paladin: to protect the weak, to bring justice to the unjust, and to vanquish evil from the darkest corners of the world. These holy warriors are equipped with plate armor so they can confront the toughest of foes, and the blessing of the Light allows them to heal wounds and, in some cases, even restore life to the dead.

Straight from the WoW website.

Paladins are holy warriors who use the light. A "void themed" paladin would A) break the lore of the class, and B) be an entirely different class altogether.. as paladins are a class specifically defined by their "holy" warrior theme. The void fits no where in the paladin class fantasy. A void knight would be an entirely different class. Let's not ruin the lore of well established classes simply because of "muh void elf paladin"

A hypothetical "Void Knight" that has all the mechanics of the Paladin class under the hood, but the class name, spell names, icons, and visual effects of the spells look different:

A) Doesn't break the lore of the class - because as far as the lore is concerned it's a Void Knight, not a Paladin
B) It would not be an entirely different class - because it's the exact same class mechanically "under the hood" even if it wears a veneer of void.

You seem to be conflating the out of lore, game mechanical aspects of the paladin class, with the in game lore aspects of the paladin class.

Perhaps I was unclear. I am not looking to actually get a void themed Paladin. I even said, in the very post you quoted mind you, that I don't think Blizzard would ever actually do such a thing. Especially not just to give Void Elves Paladins but "not paladins". I don't see any of that happening... I just think the concept of a "dark paladin/void knight" fits the "rule of cool" qualifier.

Paladins are holy warriors who use the light.
Hypothetical Void Knights would be darkly empowered warriors who use the void.

Both have the exact same skill kit, but entirely different themes. Under the hood they are both paladins. As far as the in game lore is concerned, the holy user is a Paladin and the void user is a (hypothetical) Void Knight. Is it really so hard to separate what are game mechanics and what is lore? Especially in the case of a hypothetical where I explicitly say "I don't see any of that happening... I just think the concept of a "dark paladin/void knight" fits the "rule of cool" qualifier."?

[FlubberPuddy]

i pretty sure was before the recton. Light and Void cant work together. (at the same time) priests channel magic.

Maybe bring evidence that doesn't work anymore to the wiki contributors and they'll change it. They keep the pages as accurate as possible.

i didnt say use the same magic. i asked if the twilight hammer was infused with the void like void elves.

Answer is still 'Yes'.

[matrix123mko]

Twilight magic is a combination of holy and shadow, which you can clearly see on their weapons. Even if holy is part of the equation, so is shadow. That means that there are indeed paladins who harness shadow magic.

Except they use pure light, not twilight.

Now a pure void paladin would be newly created lore afaik, but Blizz can add new things anytime. Prior precedent is not required. It does fit their one actual requirement though: it meets the requirements for the Rule of Cool.

That would require making an entire new spec.

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The big issue here is if the Twilight Vindicators are meant to use light or they only do because of limited game mechanics. We have to note that none of their abilities refer to Light itself (Divine Storm, Hammer of Wrath, Retribution Aura), cause it should be obvious that Twilight cultists wouldn't be using Light, because the whole point of what is deemed "holy" is subjective -such as Tyrant Velhari- in contrast of Holy as a school of magic, and related to game mechanics.

Regardless of any issue of VE paladins, I really don't think Twilight Vindicators -who are also human and dwarf and tauren- are meant to be still using light.

They theoretically can. Fanatism is all you need to use Light.

[Beloren]

A hypothetical "Void Knight" that has all the mechanics of the Paladin class under the hood, but the class name, spell names, icons, and visual effects of the spells look different:

A) Doesn't break the lore of the class - because as far as the lore is concerned it's a Void Knight, not a Paladin
B) It would not be an entirely different class - because it's the exact same class mechanically "under the hood" even if it wears a veneer of void.

You seem to be conflating the out of lore, game mechanical aspects of the paladin class, with the in game lore aspects of the paladin class.

Perhaps I was unclear. I am not looking to actually get a void themed Paladin. I even said, in the very post you quoted mind you, that I don't think Blizzard would ever actually do such a thing. Especially not just to give Void Elves Paladins but "not paladins". I don't see any of that happening... I just think the concept of a "dark paladin/void knight" fits the "rule of cool" qualifier.

Paladins are holy warriors who use the light.
Hypothetical Void Knights would be darkly empowered warriors who use the void.

Both have the exact same skill kit, but entirely different themes. Under the hood they are both paladins. As far as the in game lore is concerned, the holy user is a Paladin and the void user is a (hypothetical) Void Knight. Is it really so hard to separate what are game mechanics and what is lore? Especially in the case of a hypothetical where I explicitly say "I don't see any of that happening... I just think the concept of a "dark paladin/void knight" fits the "rule of cool" qualifier."?

Correct. I'm astonished how this can escape players , even with examples in game like Night elf priests, Elven hunters who actually in lore Rangers, but hunters under the hood, then more obvious examples like Blood Knight paladins (TBC generation) and Tidesage Kul'tiran Shaman, Zandalari and Kul'tiran druids - all come under different classes or category of the class, bt are that class nder the hood.

I think it's more interesting this way, although ti would be so nice if blizzard dressed the class to fit the race theme. Like a class skin, which would involve unique names and special effect even possibly animations for the unique version.

SWTOR did it, and it was glroious.. you can barely recognise the SAge and the Sorceror, or the Imperial Agent and the Smuggler.. the most diverse would perhaps have been the Bounty hunter and Mercanry, identical class, but by the time they inished theming it and dressing it..it looked so different.

Now every race in wow can't have the same treatment for every class it can be, but some do warrant it.

Blood elf hunter - i.e. the Ranger
Blood Knight
Moon Priestess
Void and Forsaken shadow priests
Lightforged priests
Loa Oriests
Night elf and Nightborne mages
Blood elf sun/blood mage kits
Troll shadow hunters
Troll shaman witch doctors
Blood troll priest skin
Dwarf titan priest

ANd also use it to give new options
Elven shaman based on teh arcane
Void elf druids - void infused nature
Blood elf botanists - i.e. druids
Nightborene valewalkers i.e. blaance druids
Void Knights - i.e. paladins
Night warrriors - i.e. NElf paladins

To be honest if they just gave one of these with each patch, it would cause a lot of excitement.. or maybe gave 2 per patch. One in each faction.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

They theoretically can. Fanatism is all you need to use Light.

Possibly, yet it is noticeable the Twilight Vindicators don't actually use any actual Light based attacks/abilities, hence the question; are they meant to just be Paladins seduced by the void which weild both, or are they meant to be former paladins that are now filling a void based analogous roles -like Tyrant Velhari does for Fel-?

[FossilFree]

Except they use pure light, not twilight.

Mechanically yes, they didn't feel the need to give such a minor hostile NPC a new set of spells and animations. Lorewise, they are using twilight though. Otherwise, their weapons would be glowing with light, not twilight like they currently do.

This is the problem that a Void Knight class skin will fix though: the imbalance between lore and game mechanics. It will force them to spend the extra time to make proper spell effects instead of just doing the cost-cutting copypaste thing.

[FlubberPuddy]

This is the problem that a Void Knight class skin will fix though: the imbalance between lore and game mechanics. It will force them to spend the extra time to make proper spell effects instead of just doing the cost-cutting copypaste thing.

I don't believe so as this is the whole point of Glyphs nowadays, like a Shadowfiend can be literally turned into a Lightspawn for Priests. Completely opposite beings, yet mechanically the same.

https://www.wowhead.com/item=153031/...the-lightspawn

Likewise some Paladin glyphs can change your horse to a void-based mount

https://www.wowhead.com/item=153176/...hots:id=674465

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Also before anyone comments on the light glow, that's' from another Paladin glyph

https://www.wowhead.com/item=41100/g...minous-charger

[matrix123mko]

Possibly, yet it is noticeable the Twilight Vindicators don't actually use any actual Light based attacks/abilities, hence the question; are they meant to just be Paladins seduced by the void which weild both, or are they meant to be former paladins that are now filling a void based analogous roles -like Tyrant Velhari does for Fel-?

They surely don't use void spells.

- - - Updated - - -

Mechanically yes, they didn't feel the need to give such a minor hostile NPC a new set of spells and animations. Lorewise, they are using twilight though. Otherwise, their weapons would be glowing with light, not twilight like they currently do.

This is the problem that a Void Knight class skin will fix though: the imbalance between lore and game mechanics. It will force them to spend the extra time to make proper spell effects instead of just doing the cost-cutting copypaste thing.

I am sure they weren't addressed by lore at all.

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I don't believe so as this is the whole point of Glyphs nowadays, like a Shadowfiend can be literally turned into a Lightspawn for Priests. Completely opposite beings, yet mechanically the same.

https://www.wowhead.com/item=153031/...the-lightspawn

Likewise some Paladin glyphs can change your horse to a void-based mount

https://www.wowhead.com/item=153176/...hots:id=674465

- - - Updated - - -

Also before anyone comments on the light glow, that's' from another Paladin glyph

https://www.wowhead.com/item=41100/g...minous-charger

Glyphs are not enough.

[FlubberPuddy]

Glyphs are not enough.

I'm not saying Glyphs are enough, I am saying that they're a perfect example of Blizzard not caring about 'imbalance between lore and game mechanics'.

You can turn a Shadowfiend into a being of Light as a Priest. As a Paladin, one can ride on a Void/Shadow infused Horse. There's no lore explanation, and no game mechanics are effected.

Just like if there was to be a 'Void Knight' that is literally a Paladin in mechanics and/or lore and just the spell colorations are Void/Shadow colored instead of Gold/Yellow.

[FossilFree]

I'm not saying Glyphs are enough, I am saying that they're a perfect example of Blizzard not caring about 'imbalance between lore and game mechanics'.

You can turn a Shadowfiend into a being of Light as a Priest. As a Paladin, one can ride on a Void/Shadow infused Horse. There's no lore explanation, and no game mechanics are effected.

Just like if there was to be a 'Void Knight' that is literally a Paladin in mechanics and/or lore and just the spell colorations are Void/Shadow colored instead of Gold/Yellow.

I think the next customization step after the appearance options in SL will be class ones. There are just too many thematic class skin possibilities to pass up. We could get a whole bunch of what feels like new classes visually, but use all the mechanics and balancing of the core class they are based on. They could either skin individual specs or the entire class across all the specs (I'd prefer the latter). I'd do something along these lines:

Death Knight - Bolvar fire, or even dragonfire like his source (Alexstrasza)
Demon Hunter - Warden, throws glaives and/or chakrams with no fel (maybe nature or something?)
Druid - Nightmare red, like Emerald Nightmare raid
Hunter - Dark Ranger, shadow with some necro stuff
Mage - Astromancer, spacey stuff like Star Augur Etraeus
Monk - Sha monk, sha colors (pride, anger, or hatred)
Paladin - Void Knight, void effects like Void Elf heritage armor/mount glass
Priest - Moonpriest, always should have been there due to Night Elf priests
Rogue - Blademaster, elemental and 2h
Shaman - Shaman of the Black, old god shaman
Warlock - Necromancer, undead pets and necro abilities in place of demon ones
Warrior - Spellbreaker, arcane effects

[Wired-Lain]

This is the call of the paladin: to protect the weak, to bring justice to the unjust, and to vanquish evil from the darkest corners of the world. These holy warriors are equipped with plate armor so they can confront the toughest of foes, and the blessing of the Light allows them to heal wounds and, in some cases, even restore life to the dead.

Straight from the WoW website.

Paladins are holy warriors who use the light. A "void themed" paladin would A) break the lore of the class, and B) be an entirely different class altogether.. as paladins are a class specifically defined by their "holy" warrior theme. The void fits no where in the paladin class fantasy. A void knight would be an entirely different class. Let's not ruin the lore of well established classes simply because of "muh void elf paladin"

A Paladin by most definitions is simply a religious knight. The default in WoW wields the light yes, but the class has expanded beyond that. Sunwalkers are more like heavily armored militant druids. Zandalari Prelates simply fight for a Loa of their choice. Theoretical Night Elf paladins would be crusaders of Elune. Much like how the priest class is a vague umbrella for many different faiths (just unplayable) so could the Paladin. So long as the appropriate cosmetics are in place I don't have a problem with widening it to include more possible fantasies.

[Vaedan]

This is the call of the paladin: to protect the weak, to bring justice to the unjust, and to vanquish evil from the darkest corners of the world. These holy warriors are equipped with plate armor so they can confront the toughest of foes, and the blessing of the Light allows them to heal wounds and, in some cases, even restore life to the dead.

Straight from the WoW website.

Paladins are holy warriors who use the light. A "void themed" paladin would A) break the lore of the class, and B) be an entirely different class altogether.. as paladins are a class specifically defined by their "holy" warrior theme. The void fits no where in the paladin class fantasy. A void knight would be an entirely different class. Let's not ruin the lore of well established classes simply because of "muh void elf paladin"

The precedent has been already set in game. Druids are using powers of Life and Nature, yet Kul Tiran druids are drawing their power from Death, which is the exact opposite. Ulfar's speech also indicates there are differencies between druids and thornspeakers, yet Kul Tirans are labeled as druids, having exact same animations as other druids, safe for forms.

In that logic, I don't know why void knights should be a problem.

[matrix123mko]

I'm not saying Glyphs are enough, I am saying that they're a perfect example of Blizzard not caring about 'imbalance between lore and game mechanics'.

You can turn a Shadowfiend into a being of Light as a Priest. As a Paladin, one can ride on a Void/Shadow infused Horse. There's no lore explanation, and no game mechanics are effected.

Just like if there was to be a 'Void Knight' that is literally a Paladin in mechanics and/or lore and just the spell colorations are Void/Shadow colored instead of Gold/Yellow.

Gaze upon this:



I would love something like this for Holy/Discipline Priest.

[Alixie]

Ugh, they still havnt fixed the normal skin tones for the void elves on the PTR. My mage wears thongs, and when Entropic Embrace procs, it materializes velf boxers. Totally ruins my mog, man.

[FlubberPuddy]

Gaze upon this:



I would love something like this for Holy/Discipline Priest.

Yes I have seen your thread and commented on which ones are my favorites in there! I believe this may have been one of them

But yeah I would love more 'Class Skins' essentially.

[matrix123mko]

Yes I have seen your thread and commented on which ones are my favorites in there! I believe this may have been one of them

But yeah I would love more 'Class Skins' essentially.

If they made an expansion based only on class skins, I would enjoy it.

[Strippling]

The precedent has been already set in game. Druids are using powers of Life and Nature, yet Kul Tiran druids are drawing their power from Death, which is the exact opposite. Ulfar's speech also indicates there are differencies between druids and thornspeakers, yet Kul Tirans are labeled as druids, having exact same animations as other druids, safe for forms.

In that logic, I don't know why void knights should be a problem.

The Kul Tirans can be Druids which draw upon their magic from the Drust. Ulfar teaches the inhabitants of Kul Tiras who wish to learn the ancient ways. While Drust magic is death magic, Ulfar explains that life and death are different parts of the cycle of nature.

Nature revolves around a life and death cycle, and druids are all about nature.

Druids harness the vast powers of nature to preserve balance and protect life. With experience, druids can unleash nature’s raw energy against their enemies, raining celestial fury on them from a great distance, binding them with enchanted vines, or ensnaring them in unrelenting cyclones.

Paladins on the other hand are specifically holy warriors who rely on the light. Druids rely on nature, whether it be its life cycle or death cycle. It's a natural cycle nonetheless. A paladin is defined by their holy theme. A void knight who wields the power of the void is ultimately a different class/concept altogether.

[Vaedan]

The Kul Tirans can be Druids which draw upon their magic from the Drust. Ulfar teaches the inhabitants of Kul Tiras who wish to learn the ancient ways. While Drust magic is death magic, Ulfar explains that life and death are different parts of the cycle of nature.

Nature revolves around a life and death cycle, and druids are all about nature.

Druids harness the vast powers of nature to preserve balance and protect life. With experience, druids can unleash nature’s raw energy against their enemies, raining celestial fury on them from a great distance, binding them with enchanted vines, or ensnaring them in unrelenting cyclones.

Paladins on the other hand are specifically holy warriors who rely on the light. Druids rely on nature, whether it be its life cycle or death cycle. It's a natural cycle nonetheless. A paladin is defined by their holy theme. A void knight who wields the power of the void is ultimately a different class/concept altogether.

Well, most of the powers druids are using are drawing from Life which is direct opposite of the Death. Nature is more of an medium in which both forces coexist, but yet, they are opposite forces.

We also know that Light and Void are connected in some way. Xal'atath says that Naaru are beloved brethren who are yet to see the right path (it is random quote when you enter Netherlight temple). Speaking of Naaru, they are beigns of pure Light, yet they turn into Void when killed.

It is not really explained how exactly are Light and Void connected, but from all we know, I can imagine introduction of an order, labeled as paladin for gameplay purposes, who use void instead.

I also don't have a problem with Void Knight being a separate class in lore, not being actually a real paladin. Don't forget there are Sunwalkers, who are in fact druids using powers of the Sun, who are either more casters (priests) or fighters (paladins). They are priests and paladins only for gameplay, in lore, they are part of the tauren druidic society. Priest and paladin trainers in Thunder Bluff also resides alongside druids. In the same way, void knights could be paladins only for gameplay.