1. #20981
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    Possibly, but there are oother explanations.

    Green eyes may have been his original natural colour, or it was just that because all blood elf models had it.

    Gold eyes transition is because his daddy has enabled him to connect to the light at lightforged levels, so he is in effect a Lightforged Half elf, perhaps the only one atm.

    saying that, we must entertain the possibility he can train other high elves and half elves to tthat level, but are they able to reach it? lightforged is not something just anyone can become.

    The fact that he is the only also heavily suggests that is definitely an exception not the rule, maybe we should check some silver covenant paladins in Northrend to see if they swapped in golden eyes.
    Alleria was described to have natural green eyes long before elves begin to meddle with Fel. If elven eye color display the what power source they are tapping into, it is logical for Farstriders, who use (or at least used to) nature magics to some degree have green eyes... not fel green, but natural green.

    I also think lightforging can be applied to basicly any race. Turalyon himself is a human with signs of lightforging. As shown in lightforge draenei recruiting scenario, the most important factor during lightforging is your willpower and faith, both of these traits are typical for draenei, so they make natural fit for lightforging. I guess if some elves went through the lightforging ritual, they could succeed and become lightforged.

  2. #20982
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Alleria was described to have natural green eyes long before elves begin to meddle with Fel. If elven eye color display the what power source they are tapping into, it is logical for Farstriders, who use (or at least used to) nature magics to some degree have green eyes... not fel green, but natural green.

    I also think lightforging can be applied to basicly any race. Turalyon himself is a human with signs of lightforging. As shown in lightforge draenei recruiting scenario, the most important factor during lightforging is your willpower and faith, both of these traits are typical for draenei, so they make natural fit for lightforging. I guess if some elves went through the lightforging ritual, they could succeed and become lightforged.
    Hmm, which means the blue colour must be the physical evidence of her void enhancement, cos when we meet her in Argus, she has blue eyes, but she's already been void training a lot by that point.

    I didn't know she originally had green eyes.

    Did they officially explain the eye colour change?

    Speculation Bonanza
    And yes, I think Lightforging can happen to any race, but I don't think just anyone can do it, according to the Lightforged quest thing, it isn't an easy process at all, and even holier than thou Draenei aren't all able to achieve it. Turalyon seems to have a special destiny, which means he had that potential in him , from birth, cosmically chosen as such. I'm only guessing here, but Lightforging would be very difficult and very rare, and most would never be able to achieve it even if they're very pious.

    I can assume Turalyon as Lightforge is quite the exception, he doesn't have golden glowy eyes - Thalassian have that colour because of the Light magic, so they've gone a stage further, but as elves they probably react more to magic than other races do, so they adapt physical signs sooner, but it could also mean there capacity and reach in magical areas is also far greater which is why they are affected physically, despite other races able to wield the magics just as well for combat purposes. This also hasn't been clarified.

    I would assume blood elves with golden eyes have undergone something similar, and it's not exactly tied to being a priest or paladin, more some sort of virtue related inner strength and then will power to endure an acceleration of the light. Perhaps in the blood elves case it's far more easily attained because of the Sunwell's light half, an doso in them it's not an indication of special light selection or anything like that.

    Seeing they are also from night elves and night elves have these golden eyes, the Light effect of the Sunwell could have healed or reconnected something in them that produces this colour too and it's a gene they already have from their night elven roots, one that is light related, nature can also trigger it, but not in the way we thought, it was actually the love and devotion to nature that triggered more golden eyes, making love and devotion the real trigger nt nature, nature was just the vehicle that allowed the love and devotion to grow to the extent required to trigger some golden eyes in night elves.

    Anyway, the eye article in early wow is de-canonised - it is no longer canon lore. I noticed Malfurion had emerald dream green eyes in Legion, this is far more appropriate for nature users than golden eyes. It seemed a bit silly to change golden eyes from being a mark of destiny (not fully understood) to suddenly being nature related because Malfurion was the writers' pet or Metzen's pet.

    Hopefully they'll fix their inconsistencies soon.

  3. #20983
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    Hmm, which means the blue colour must be the physical evidence of her void enhancement, cos when we meet her in Argus, she has blue eyes, but she's already been void training a lot by that point.

    I didn't know she originally had green eyes.

    Did they officially explain the eye colour change?

    Speculation Bonanza
    And yes, I think Lightforging can happen to any race, but I don't think just anyone can do it, according to the Lightforged quest thing, it isn't an easy process at all, and even holier than thou Draenei aren't all able to achieve it. Turalyon seems to have a special destiny, which means he had that potential in him , from birth, cosmically chosen as such. I'm only guessing here, but Lightforging would be very difficult and very rare, and most would never be able to achieve it even if they're very pious.

    I can assume Turalyon as Lightforge is quite the exception, he doesn't have golden glowy eyes - Thalassian have that colour because of the Light magic, so they've gone a stage further, but as elves they probably react more to magic than other races do, so they adapt physical signs sooner, but it could also mean there capacity and reach in magical areas is also far greater which is why they are affected physically, despite other races able to wield the magics just as well for combat purposes. This also hasn't been clarified.

    I would assume blood elves with golden eyes have undergone something similar, and it's not exactly tied to being a priest or paladin, more some sort of virtue related inner strength and then will power to endure an acceleration of the light. Perhaps in the blood elves case it's far more easily attained because of the Sunwell's light half, an doso in them it's not an indication of special light selection or anything like that.

    Seeing they are also from night elves and night elves have these golden eyes, the Light effect of the Sunwell could have healed or reconnected something in them that produces this colour too and it's a gene they already have from their night elven roots, one that is light related, nature can also trigger it, but not in the way we thought, it was actually the love and devotion to nature that triggered more golden eyes, making love and devotion the real trigger nt nature, nature was just the vehicle that allowed the love and devotion to grow to the extent required to trigger some golden eyes in night elves.

    Anyway, the eye article in early wow is de-canonised - it is no longer canon lore. I noticed Malfurion had emerald dream green eyes in Legion, this is far more appropriate for nature users than golden eyes. It seemed a bit silly to change golden eyes from being a mark of destiny (not fully understood) to suddenly being nature related because Malfurion was the writers' pet or Metzen's pet.

    Hopefully they'll fix their inconsistencies soon.
    Alleria's green eyes are mentioned in Tides of Darkness. I don't think her having blue eyes was explained then, or if her former green eyes were just retconned. I think it is just minor detail. I think they went with blue eyes purely to label her as high elf and not mistake her with a blood elf to begin with, but your explanation that it could be caused by a void is logical.

    I think blood elves having gold eyes is the direct result of Sunwell's energies, which is now infused by the Light as well. Since all elves are connected spiritually to Sunwell, I think that Light energies radiates through them because of it and it is manifested by golden glow in their eyes. It is similar to fel green eyes elves got while they used Fel Crystals around Silvermoon. I'm not sure if I would call it lightforging... perhaps it is just small portion of what lightforging means. Lightforged draenei display Naaru tatoos, permanent Gift of the Naaru and all of them are able to call upon powers of the Light and when they die, Light erupts from their body. The only sign similar to that on blood elves are golden eyes, they lack all other signs of lightforging.

    I'm sure that if some blood elf, like Lady Liadrin, endure trials of lightforging, she can become proper Lightforged elf.

  4. #20984
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    There were others in the Silver Hand, Mehlar is just noted because he was Uther's apprentice.

    "A few were members of the Silver Hand, such as Mehlar Dawnblade, while others belonged to the high elven Royal Guard."

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Paladin_races

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    Quote Originally Posted by ript4 View Post
    IIRC currently its just the Dalaran trainer, the random troops you can recruit in the order hall (but I don't know if they're still a thing) and Arator.
    Yeah the random troops in Paladin Order Hall means they're common enough. It's not possible to check anymore though because Blizzard deactivated that specific Order Hall perk across all Order Halls. But here's a photo of them during Legion.


  5. #20985
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    There were others in the Silver Hand, Mehlar is just noted because he was Uther's apprentice.

    "A few were members of the Silver Hand, such as Mehlar Dawnblade, while others belonged to the high elven Royal Guard."

    Yeah the random troops in Paladin Order Hall means they're common enough. It's not possible to check anymore though because Blizzard deactivated that specific Order Hall perk across all Order Halls. But here's a photo of them during Legion.

    Quote Originally Posted by ript4 View Post
    IIRC currently its just the Dalaran trainer, the random troops you can recruit in the order hall (but I don't know if they're still a thing) and Arator.
    but they're all conceived post-BC

    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    There were others in the Silver Hand, Mehlar is just noted because he was Uther's apprentice.

    "A few were members of the Silver Hand, such as Mehlar Dawnblade, while others belonged to the high elven Royal Guard."
    that's news to me; High Elven Paladins really existed pre-Scourging I see
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.

  6. #20986
    There's also https://www.wowhead.com/npc=36624/caladis-brightspear and the T9 vendor with the joke name (hey, if Zen'kiki counts so does he)

    Also, while the Vanguard cooldown was deprecated with the release of BfA, you can still get High Elf troops as randos from the mission table recruiters.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  7. #20987
    I want void elf paladins because the Twilight's Hammer employed paladins amidst their armies, and we all know the Twilight's Hammer was the exact opposite of Light fanatics. So if Twilight's Hammer can employ paladins, there's no reason why the Ren'dorei can't.

    You don't even need to mention high elves to justify why void elf paladins make sense storywise.



    There's no way around this, void paladins have existed since Cataclysm, I don't care what anyone has to say.
    The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!

  8. #20988
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I want void elf paladins because the Twilight's Hammer employed paladins amidst their armies, and we all know the Twilight's Hammer was the exact opposite of Light fanatics. So if Twilight's Hammer can employ paladins, there's no reason why the Ren'dorei can't.

    You don't even need to mention high elves to justify why void elf paladins make sense storywise.



    There's no way around this, void paladins have existed since Cataclysm, I don't care what anyone has to say.
    We all know that Void is actually related to the Light. Xal'atath claimed Naaru are misguided but beloved siblings to them, which will see the truth in the end. I can certainly imagine paladins drawing their powers from the Void instead of Light. We've seen shadows can be used offensively, but also as a tool for healing and defense.

    All it takes is for Blizzard to finaly invent class skins, introducing paladins with void animations.

  9. #20989
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I want void elf paladins because the Twilight's Hammer employed paladins amidst their armies, and we all know the Twilight's Hammer was the exact opposite of Light fanatics. So if Twilight's Hammer can employ paladins, there's no reason why the Ren'dorei can't.

    You don't even need to mention high elves to justify why void elf paladins make sense storywise.



    There's no way around this, void paladins have existed since Cataclysm, I don't care what anyone has to say.
    were the twilight's hammer infused with the void the Void elves?
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  10. #20990
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    but they're all conceived post-BC
    The Silver Hand existed before BC. Just because something isn't shown at a particular time in the game doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It would be like saying the Kyrians never existed until Shadowlands when those spirit rezzers this whole time were Kyrian, just never mentioned by that name till now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    that's news to me; High Elven Paladins really existed pre-Scourging I see
    Yeah, while it wasn't very commonplace, they did exist.

    It's the same justification people gave for Zandalari Paladins "we are known to fight some freethinkers/prelates so they should be an available class!" were the reasons before they included the prelates of Rezan.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    Also, while the Vanguard cooldown was deprecated with the release of BfA, you can still get High Elf troops as randos from the mission table recruiters.
    Now that's a key find!! So proof still exists of High Elf Paladins in game!

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    Quote Originally Posted by General Zanjin View Post
    were the twilight's hammer infused with the void the Void elves?
    Elements of magic come from anywhere, so the answer to this question would be: it doesn't matter.

  11. #20991
    Actually I really want Blizzard to do another expansion like Cataclysm that vastly expands the race/class combinations (the only new combo they added since then was gnome hunter). Void elf paladins are a must, and so are blood elf druids. Why is it that if you want to play druid on Horde side you can only pick the ugly races?
    The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!

  12. #20992
    Undead lightforged draenei and the light raising the dead into undeath, such as Calia, are a travesty to the established lore. Since they've gone there, they should make void elf paladins a thing too and then just throw everything related to the cosmic powers' lore concepts out of the window. Mechagnome druids, Forsaken druids, void elf paladins, troll demon hunters, you name it.

  13. #20993
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I want void elf paladins because the Twilight's Hammer employed paladins amidst their armies, and we all know the Twilight's Hammer was the exact opposite of Light fanatics. So if Twilight's Hammer can employ paladins, there's no reason why the Ren'dorei can't.

    You don't even need to mention high elves to justify why void elf paladins make sense storywise.



    There's no way around this, void paladins have existed since Cataclysm, I don't care what anyone has to say.
    Except they use Light. Their source of power is their faith in N'zoth. Also, they are normal blood elves with no corruption on them.

    I believe Ren'dorei don't have such faith. Also, they are creatures of the Void, which makes them unable to use Light.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  14. #20994
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Alleria was described to have natural green eyes long before elves begin to meddle with Fel. If elven eye color display the what power source they are tapping into, it is logical for Farstriders, who use (or at least used to) nature magics to some degree have green eyes... not fel green, but natural green.

    I also think lightforging can be applied to basicly any race. Turalyon himself is a human with signs of lightforging. As shown in lightforge draenei recruiting scenario, the most important factor during lightforging is your willpower and faith, both of these traits are typical for draenei, so they make natural fit for lightforging. I guess if some elves went through the lightforging ritual, they could succeed and become lightforged.
    TBH for me that sounds more like a slight retcon/codification of how High Elf eyes look; before WoW pretty much gave all HE's glowing blue eyes and BE's glowing green, elves were described with just human eye colors -same with Lor'themar, who is described as having dark brown eyes in Tides of Darkness. At best we could say that Alleria's natural eye color -under the blue glow- is green, and that maybe she used to have little glow on them, same for Lor'themar.

    But pretty much yeah, pre WoW there was no codification of elven eyes as glowing, and even then it took a while before it became more consistent through media.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Except they use Light. Their source of power is their faith in N'zoth. Also, they are normal blood elves with no corruption on them.

    I believe Ren'dorei don't have such faith. Also, they are creatures of the Void, which makes them unable to use Light.
    The big issue here is if the Twilight Vindicators are meant to use light or they only do because of limited game mechanics. We have to note that none of their abilities refer to Light itself (Divine Storm, Hammer of Wrath, Retribution Aura), cause it should be obvious that Twilight cultists wouldn't be using Light, because the whole point of what is deemed "holy" is subjective -such as Tyrant Velhari- in contrast of Holy as a school of magic, and related to game mechanics.

    Regardless of any issue of VE paladins, I really don't think Twilight Vindicators -who are also human and dwarf and tauren- are meant to be still using light.
    Last edited by MyWholeLifeIsThunder; 2020-09-10 at 07:21 PM.

  15. #20995
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Except they use Light. Their source of power is their faith in N'zoth. Also, they are normal blood elves with no corruption on them.

    I believe Ren'dorei don't have such faith. Also, they are creatures of the Void, which makes them unable to use Light.
    Twilight magic is a combination of holy and shadow, which you can clearly see on their weapons. Even if holy is part of the equation, so is shadow. That means that there are indeed paladins who harness shadow magic.

    Now a pure void paladin would be newly created lore afaik, but Blizz can add new things anytime. Prior precedent is not required. It does fit their one actual requirement though: it meets the requirements for the Rule of Cool.

  16. #20996
    Quote Originally Posted by FossilFree View Post
    Twilight magic is a combination of holy and shadow, which you can clearly see on their weapons. Even if holy is part of the equation, so is shadow. That means that there are indeed paladins who harness shadow magic.

    Now a pure void paladin would be newly created lore afaik, but Blizz can add new things anytime. Prior precedent is not required. It does fit their one actual requirement though: it meets the requirements for the Rule of Cool.
    I don't know... I think the idea of Paladin that draws its power from the void instead of the light (but is otherwise mechanically identical) sounds pretty cool.

  17. #20997
    We spent months searching every inch of Azeroth for any sign of Sylvanas, only to learn that my sister has crossed into the realm of the dead.

    <Alleria's eyes narrow.>

    How fitting.

    Though I long to join the hunt for her, right now my place is here. The Alliance must rebuild its strength, and I will aid Turalyon in that effort.

    But when the time comes, I will see Sylvanas answer for what she had done.
    Alleria will be helping Turalyon rebuild the Alliance after the genocidal war started by the psycho Sylvanas, that is reassuring (though the last line hints that she might appear when Sylvanas dies). As a void elf player it is very nice to know that my racial leader will basically act as "high queen" of the Alliance. Go queen!

    And, huh, I guess Vereesa can help too.
    The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!

  18. #20998
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    I don't know... I think the idea of Paladin that draws its power from the void instead of the light (but is otherwise mechanically identical) sounds pretty cool.
    It's not really a paladin anymore if they draw their power from the void. Sounds like a completely different class to me all together.

    I don't think the lore behind paladins should be retconned simply so that void elves can play a "dark paladin".
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  19. #20999
    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post

    Elements of magic come from anywhere, so the answer to this question would be: it doesn't matter.
    Void and Light cant work together.
    and that doesnt answer my question.
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  20. #21000
    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    It's not really a paladin anymore if they draw their power from the void. Sounds like a completely different class to me all together.

    I don't think the lore behind paladins should be retconned simply so that void elves can play a "dark paladin".
    I mean if it's mechanically the same as a Paladin under the hood but you'd rather it not be called "paladin", we could call it Void Knight or something I guess. But if it's a paladin under the hood, has a beacon placing healing spec, a shield throwing tanking spec, and a two-handed melee dps spec, has the same exact skills as a paladin but with different names and visuals... is it really a completely different class? A completely different theme for sure, but mechanically speaking it would still be a paladin no?

    As to the lore, the lore doesn't need retconning if the lore simply doesn't acknowledge them as paladins but rather as these hypothetical "Void Knights". Paladins would be the light wielding plate wearers with a beacon placing healing spec, a shield throwing tank spec, and a two-handed melee dps spec, and the hypothetical "Void Knights" would be the void wielding plate wearers with a beacon placing healing spec, a shield throwing tank spec, and a two-handed melee dps spec.

    I wouldn't get too worked up over this little flight of fancy though. I don't think Blizzard would ever actually do such a thing. Especially not just to give Void Elves Paladins but "not paladins". For anything like this to happen Blizzard would have to want to open paladins up to a wider range of races overall, not just one allied race. And they'd have to come up with some compelling lore to make it work and have it make sense. I don't see any of that happening... I just think the concept of a "dark paladin/void knight" fits the "rule of cool" qualifier.
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2020-09-11 at 02:23 AM.

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