1. #21121
    San'layn aren't zombie elves though, they're vampire elves.

    I'd prefer they go the SL Kael'thas route and allow Blood Elves to unlock this form:


  2. #21122
    I'll let you discover the definition of a vampire.

    Kaelthas is dead, only the dead will be able to follow his path.
    I hope for him that he will not be 100% venthyr at the end of his redemption otherwise the sun will be fatal to him.

  3. #21123
    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    Being able to express your character the way you want is one of the best things RPGs can allow you to do, with the increased customizations and the statement that customization is always on going and there isn't an end - it will happen with time.

    I think one of the biggest take-aways Blizzard learned from increased customizations is that there's a much much much larger sect of players that love the fact they can be more creative with how their race looks compared to someone playing the same exact race as them.

    As obvious as that should sound, it just shows that having 'uniquely restricted samey looks' is a thing of a bygone era. You can still be unique in so many ways despite having the same hair color as another in real life.

    Same thing should apply in RPGs imo, and the audience overwhelmingly approving the additional customizations proves that to Blizzard.
    I'm in the camp of "more options is always better". I can see no downside at all of increasing the amount of customization options we have. Obviously some options will stand out more than others, but in general, more options is better.

  4. #21124
    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    I'll let you discover the definition of a vampire.

    Kaelthas is dead, only the dead will be able to follow his path.
    I hope for him that he will not be 100% venthyr at the end of his redemption otherwise the sun will be fatal to him.
    I didn't say undead though, I said zombie. Zombies≠vampires.



    is not the same as


  5. #21125
    Quote Originally Posted by FossilFree View Post
    I didn't say undead though, I said zombie. Zombies≠vampires.



    is not the same as

    They just don't have anything alive.
    This type of undead elf is related to the scourge, nothing to do with blood elves.
    Last edited by Frenchvince; 2020-09-23 at 08:25 PM.

  6. #21126
    Quote Originally Posted by FossilFree View Post
    San'layn aren't zombie elves though, they're vampire elves.

    I'd prefer they go the SL Kael'thas route and allow Blood Elves to unlock this form:

    kael is not vampire or undead he is dead. and this is corrupt kael.

    normal kael now


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FossilFree View Post
    I didn't say undead though, I said zombie. Zombies≠vampires.



    is not the same as

    i'm sure that's a marvel comics character.

    but the reality is that the vampires of real European folklore are much more like the "zombies" than the movie stars created by the culture of Hollywood in the mid-twentieth century, it is more the first vampire movie is the most consistent with the description of what the mythological vampires were

  7. #21127
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    but the reality is that the vampires of real European folklore are much more like the "zombies" than the movie stars created by the culture of Hollywood in the mid-twentieth century, it is more the first vampire movie is the most consistent with the description of what the mythological vampires were
    Dude who cares about that? We are talking about a fantasy game, if you say vampire to anyone in the world they would think about Dracula-like vampires.

  8. #21128
    Quote Originally Posted by Josyel View Post
    Dude who cares about that? We are talking about a fantasy game, if you say vampire to anyone in the world they would think about Dracula-like vampires.
    you are giving me reason! when someone says what vampires should look like and shows a character created in the mid-twentieth century it is clearly not someone who knows what vampires are really like
    the perfect representation of dracula in a movie

    in revendreth we see real vampires


  9. #21129
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    you are giving me reason! when someone says what vampires should look like and shows a character created in the mid-twentieth century it is clearly not someone who knows what vampires are really like
    the perfect representation of dracula in a movie

    in revendreth we see real vampires

    There is no point in discussing vampires from both folklore and pop culture, it will only lead into endless argument war, because vampires have many interpretations through various books, movies, series...

    What actually matters is fact that there is a group of Undead elves we know for years which recently showed interest in finding their new place in the world alongside their kin. Horde chose to take them in. It was decision made by Sylvanas (and she let them do what they want), but Rokhan had no problem with them either.

    To sum up - San'layn have established lore in game, they have ties to blood elves and there actually is possible narrative which can lead to them being implemented playable. Not to mention there are people who request them for years.

    Venthyr on the other hand have little of that. I'm sure some players would like them, but san'layn have more potential and are way easier to implement.

  10. #21130
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    There is no point in discussing vampires from both folklore and pop culture, it will only lead into endless argument war, because vampires have many interpretations through various books, movies, series...

    What actually matters is fact that there is a group of Undead elves we know for years which recently showed interest in finding their new place in the world alongside their kin. Horde chose to take them in. It was decision made by Sylvanas (and she let them do what they want), but Rokhan had no problem with them either.

    To sum up - San'layn have established lore in game, they have ties to blood elves and there actually is possible narrative which can lead to them being implemented playable. Not to mention there are people who request them for years.

    Venthyr on the other hand have little of that. I'm sure some players would like them, but san'layn have more potential and are way easier to implement.
    the sanlyan who joined Sylvanas devoted to eating members of the horde and now they are dead

  11. #21131
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    There is no point in discussing vampires from both folklore and pop culture, it will only lead into endless argument war, because vampires have many interpretations through various books, movies, series...

    What actually matters is fact that there is a group of Undead elves we know for years which recently showed interest in finding their new place in the world alongside their kin. Horde chose to take them in. It was decision made by Sylvanas (and she let them do what they want), but Rokhan had no problem with them either.

    To sum up - San'layn have established lore in game, they have ties to blood elves and there actually is possible narrative which can lead to them being implemented playable. Not to mention there are people who request them for years.

    Venthyr on the other hand have little of that. I'm sure some players would like them, but san'layn have more potential and are way easier to implement.
    Undead elves have been a part of the forsaken since it's inception and the San'layn are undead elves that have all been killed off. Basically, the only difference between them and the standard dark ranger is the practice of blood magic. As Rhlor pointed out, most San'layn used the Belf DK models.

  12. #21132
    Quote Originally Posted by delus View Post
    Undead elves have been a part of the forsaken since it's inception and the San'layn are undead elves that have all been killed off. Basically, the only difference between them and the standard dark ranger is the practice of blood magic. As Rhlor pointed out, most San'layn used the Belf DK models.
    DK blood is a san'layn

  13. #21133
    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    They just don't have anything alive.
    This type of undead elf is related to the scourge, nothing to do with blood elves.
    Fun fact, most fiction still categorizes vampires as undead. Wow canon recognizes this pattern as San'layn were members of the Scourge raised by Arthas.

    The picture of Michael Morbius you showed is one of the very few examples of a living vampire. This was a decision made by the writers to get around the comics code of the time which didn't allow undead

  14. #21134
    Quote Originally Posted by delus View Post
    Undead elves have been a part of the forsaken since it's inception and the San'layn are undead elves that have all been killed off. Basically, the only difference between them and the standard dark ranger is the practice of blood magic. As Rhlor pointed out, most San'layn used the Belf DK models.
    Exactly, undead elves are part of the Horde since the very beginning, so I don't get why some people feel So bad about having this fantasy playable. We've seen Horde (blood elves included) being pretty tolerant towards undead, even if their actions were not always honorable. The only one who spoke against Forsaken was Drek'thar. Regarding San'layn, Rokhan said he is fine with being part of the Horde as long as they follow their rules. It is logical they would join up Forsaken more likely then their living kin, but I guess it is more easy to give undead skin options to blood elves (BE DK already have this option) then create whole set of customizations to Forsaken.

    As for model... Yes, they used DK skin because it was closest thing to represent them and I guess Blizz felt no need to create unique skins when they already have enough options thanks to DKs. Lorewise, San'layn are not DKs, or rather say, not all of them are DKs. Their leaders are mages with access to blood magic and most of no name NPCs were not DKs either. If you want to have san'layn blood knight, you are just fine right now, but it does not apply to other classes unfortunately. That's why people request it.

    We know that Prince Dreven's group was killed off. I would not be surprised to find out there are more san'layn in Icecrown. We've also seen Mawsworn ressurecting them during prepatch, so their demise is not ultimate obstacle.

  15. #21135
    The San'layn are unreliable to join the horde, you really have to do the alliance war campaign to understand, and then anyway they've all been exterminated by the alliance.
    They have no connection with the blood elves, except perhaps to serve as their blood distributors.

    The Dark Rangers are already part of the horde but they are with the Forsaken, not the Blood Elves.

    This is why I find it normal that these "undead elves" are not a customization option for blood elves.
    I think it is for these 2 reasons that Blizzard will not do it.

  16. #21136
    Eh, I wouldn't say they're unreliable. The San'layn who sought to join the Horde simply proved to be opportunistic. It wouldn't be unreasonable for another to seek to join in good faith or because it's a necessity to use the power of undeath to fight fire with fire much like how the exact same justification was used for Demon Hunters and Death Knights. Both of which who were also firmly in the 'enemy' camp at one point.

    I'd play one, personally. I've always liked the San'layn and I vastly preferred Blood Elves when they had more grit to them. Currently I play a Void Elf because they are now the ones to have the grit and 'victory at any cost' mentality.

  17. #21137
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    but aren't San'layn literally just Dark Rangers with extra steps?
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.

  18. #21138
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    but aren't San'layn literally just Dark Rangers with extra steps?
    They're both mid-tier undead, not quite death knights who are the lich king's chosen.

  19. #21139
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Exactly, undead elves are part of the Horde since the very beginning, so I don't get why some people feel So bad about having this fantasy playable. We've seen Horde (blood elves included) being pretty tolerant towards undead, even if their actions were not always honorable. The only one who spoke against Forsaken was Drek'thar. Regarding San'layn, Rokhan said he is fine with being part of the Horde as long as they follow their rules. It is logical they would join up Forsaken more likely then their living kin, but I guess it is more easy to give undead skin options to blood elves (BE DK already have this option) then create whole set of customizations to Forsaken.

    As for model... Yes, they used DK skin because it was closest thing to represent them and I guess Blizz felt no need to create unique skins when they already have enough options thanks to DKs. Lorewise, San'layn are not DKs, or rather say, not all of them are DKs. Their leaders are mages with access to blood magic and most of no name NPCs were not DKs either. If you want to have san'layn blood knight, you are just fine right now, but it does not apply to other classes unfortunately. That's why people request it.

    We know that Prince Dreven's group was killed off. I would not be surprised to find out there are more san'layn in Icecrown. We've also seen Mawsworn ressurecting them during prepatch, so their demise is not ultimate obstacle.
    yes, there are more sanlayn who are loyal to the jailer now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    Eh, I wouldn't say they're unreliable. The San'layn who sought to join the Horde simply proved to be opportunistic. It wouldn't be unreasonable for another to seek to join in good faith or because it's a necessity to use the power of undeath to fight fire with fire much like how the exact same justification was used for Demon Hunters and Death Knights. Both of which who were also firmly in the 'enemy' camp at one point.

    I'd play one, personally. I've always liked the San'layn and I vastly preferred Blood Elves when they had more grit to them. Currently I play a Void Elf because they are now the ones to have the grit and 'victory at any cost' mentality.
    sanlayn as customization void elf !! the void elf has DK customization anyway and there might be a sanlayn who wants to join the void elves

  20. #21140
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    yes, there are more sanlayn who are loyal to the jailer now.
    They are raised by Mawsworn now, so I guess that does not include giving them free will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    sanlayn as customization void elf !! the void elf has DK customization anyway and there might be a sanlayn who wants to join the void elves
    Well, when void elves were formed, san'layn were not part of Umbric's group, so I don't they should get that option. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind, but in that case, prepare for rivers of tears from blood elf community, which requests san'layn for blood elves. Most blood elf fans are not really happy how little customizations they get and complain all the time void elves got their skin tones, so void elves getting san'layn skins while blood elves don't will make a lot of people upset. I don't think it'd be fair to blood elves either.

    To be honest, best scenario would be san'layn allied race on the Horde to show they are their own independent group with selected classes fitting to them. I'm not sure if we ever get another allied race though.

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