Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Varodoc]

I seriously do not believe that. Void Elves just aren't like High Elves, and the demand will still be there. If anything it makes it more likely, because now that we already have the Blood Elf model, on the Alliance side, it's less of a big deal to give us real High Elves. Because the one point people raised prior to Void Elves was "they're not gonna give the same race to both factions". But they did give a Night Elf variant to the Horde and a Blood Elf variant to the Alliance. So that barrier has been broken down. The rest is a formality. It all depends on how much demand there is for it. The reason we got so far with Void Elves and blue eyes is because you people demanded it. If you keep demanding real High Elves, they will give in eventually, even if it takes another 15 years.

If I play a Void Elf, I want it to be a Void Elf. Pretending a Void Elf with blue eyes or even blonde hair is a High Elf is not doing it for me. My character window will still say Void Elf. My racial is still a void portal. My home is still a void rift. My leader is still a Void Elf (that they have completely ruined lore wise). My mount is still a void chicken and my heritage armor is still all purple. It's just never gonna be enough.

1) Alleria isn't ruined, she's one of the best Alliance characters by far.

2) That's because the pink-skin void elf is either meant to be a void elf who retains their fair-skin form like Alleria, or a high elf scholar who is studying the Void in Telogrus Rift. So of course a high elf scholar would use the Void.

You can RP your high elf however you want, but that is the base idea of a high elf/pink-skin void elf, and that's not changing. Just like how Classic Humans ALWAYS come from the Kingdom of Stormwind, despite many roleplaying them as Lordaeronians.

[kflay]

1) Alleria isn't ruined, she's one of the best Alliance characters by far.

sorry no

bye

[Varodoc]

sorry no

bye

Hahaha you can't even explain your reasoning, your only argument is "bye".

[kflay]

As much as I'd love to see proper High Elf allied race, I think odds are pretty low to make it happen now.

People said the same thing for years until Void Elves have happened. For years people said we're never gonna get High Elves because they're not gonna give the same race to both factions. Now that that has happened it has turned to "oh we're not gonna get real High Elves". We're already almost there. Most of the walking has been done. We're almost at the end of the path. You only have to let Blizzard know that you still want them, and they'll eventually give them to the players.

[Kyriani]

People said the same thing for years until Void Elves have happened. For years people said we're never gonna get High Elves because they're not gonna give the same race to both factions. Now that that has happened it has turned to "oh we're not gonna get real High Elves". We're already almost there. Most of the walking has been done. We're almost at the end of the path. You only have to let Blizzard know that you still want them, and they'll eventually give them to the players.

I wish it had gone otherwise, but it does seem that Blizzard intends for us to have our Alliance High Elves via Void Elves. It's not the ideal no, but it's more likely that Blizzard would add more ways to make Void Elves into High Elves than they would add High Elves as an Alliance allied race.

The veneer idea I proposed awhile back is probably the best thing we could hopeful at this point.

While I don't foresee (or want) Blizzard allowing us to just swap racials around, I would not object to a "veneer" for racials. If they ever add some sort of option to change our displayed racial tag (so the race says High Elf instead of Void Elf), then the "veneer" could change the names, icons and visual effects of the racials while maintaining their functions. For example, if I select the "High Elf" option my race would display as High Elf and the "veneer" on my racials would make them change thus:

Entropic Embrace becomes Arcane Legacy: The visual effect, icon and name change but otherwise it mechanically works exactly the same.

Spatial Rift becomes Arcane Jaunt: The visual effect, icon and name change but otherwise it mechanically works exactly the same.

Preternatural Calm becomes Focused Mind: The icon and name change but otherwise it mechanically works exactly the same.

Ethereal Connection becomes Friend of a Friend: The icon and name change but otherwise it mechanically works exactly the same.

Chill of Night becomes Against the Darkness: The icon and name change but otherwise it mechanically works exactly the same.

Basically the "veneer" and racial tag display change would allow subraces within a given race. The same concept could be applied to other races, such as Wildhammer Dwarves, Sand Trolls, Grimtotem Tauren, Dragonmaw Orcs, etc.

I believe there's a better shot of THAT happening than a High Elf allied race at this point.

[kflay]

I wish it had gone otherwise, but it does seem that Blizzard intends for us to have our Alliance High Elves via Void Elves.

Just like they intended for us to not have Void Elves at all, until they added Void Elves.

[Vaedan]

People said the same thing for years until Void Elves have happened. For years people said we're never gonna get High Elves because they're not gonna give the same race to both factions. Now that that has happened it has turned to "oh we're not gonna get real High Elves". We're already almost there. Most of the walking has been done. We're almost at the end of the path. You only have to let Blizzard know that you still want them, and they'll eventually give them to the players.

I'll repeat myself. I don't think there was a problem of having two almost same races on both factions (pandaren pretty much make it way more likely). The issue now is to have two almost identical races on the same side. I don't really see it possible for Blizzard to waste their resources on developing new race which can be actually implemented by customizations to existing one. It's the exactly same route Wildhammer dwarves are being implemented as playable variant of dwarves.

There is also difference between requests now and then. Before void elves, we had no thalassian option on Alliance. You just couldn't be high elfor you had to go to extreme measures to play as human/night elf and pretend you are high/half elf or highborne, which was not even close to the point we got at the end of Legion with void elves and now at SL launch, we are closest to high elf fantasy we've ever been. Blizzard actually acknowledged 15 years old request for Alliance high elf and finally allowed us to play one of the Alliance signature races in form of void elves. If you want to be high elf, you have an option now on both faction. I agree it is more complicated on the Alliance, but I'm possitive it will get better in the future.

The only scenario where high elves are possible alongside void elves is when void elves are build heavily upon their void/cultist/old god theme without getting any proper high elf options. In that case, void elves can't fullfil your high elf fantasy and serve more as a dark cultist race so there is a place for original pure high elf archetype. All points Blizz will go different route, adding high elf options to void elves, saving AR spot for some other race (if we ever get another AR in the future).

[Lahis]

Wait, void elves are getting light blue hair? I’ll have to grind Dragonwrath out so my elf can turn into a blue dragon!

Nope. The blue hair is Blood Elf DK haircolor, now available to all Blood Elf classes.

Void Elves are still locked in their It's not a phase! -phase.

[Kyriani]

Just like they intended for us to not have Void Elves at all, until they added Void Elves.

It's really not the same thing. Void Elves became the gateway for High Elves through customization. There is no easy way to implement High Elves as their own allied race at this point even if Blizzard was inclined to make yet another Thalassian elf allied race, which I just don't see them doing.

I believe that going forward, allied races will be more like the Vulpera, standing as their own thing and not just a spin off of an existing race. If you're taking the fact that we have Void Elves as some sort of indication that means there's a chance for High Elves as an allied race, I'm sorry to say but I think it's the exact opposite. The fact that Void Elves exist all but guarantees we won't get High Elves as their own allied race, and the customizations basically nailed the coffin shut. I'm not saying it's impossible, but the likelihood is so low considering all the above, I personally feel it best to devote my efforts towards making Void Elves able to fulfill the High Elf fantasy as well as they can.

The skin options were a big start. Some typical human hair colors along with a tentacle toggle alone would essentially complete the High Elf look. More hairstyles would just add to the variety. The "veneer" idea I mentioned before would allow Void Elves to completely fulfill the High Elf request, with only the Paladin class being unavailable. And frankly, I don't think the Paladin class is necessary for Alliance High Elves. Would it be a nice thing to have? Sure. Is it necessary to be a High Elf? Absolutely not.

But keep trying to fight for High Elves as an allied race. I wish you the best of luck because I'd play that allied race. I just don't see it actually happening though, so my energies will be devoted to the direction Blizzard seems to be going - Customizations to answer the calls for certain sub-races/splinter groups.

[Monster Hunter]

Maghar got the new tusk, piercings and necklace customization from regular orcs. Void Elves also got new void-style eyes. Blue and purple shades.

We've also seen Kultirans and Maghar get their facial hair spread out into seperate options. Which to me seems like more work than altering hair textures to deal with the jewelry problem.

What he means is blizz have stated allied races aren't the focus, some stuff will be easy to port over, they may get and have gotten a few things but the main focus for SL has been to update the old races options.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

What he means is blizz have stated allied races aren't the focus, some stuff will be easy to port over, they may get and have gotten a few things but the main focus for SL has been to update the old races options.

Indeed, AR so far had gotten only QoL adjustments, nothing actually new added specifically to them except for recolored eyes. The ostensibly gamechanger normal skins on VE, while great, are a port from the BE's in much the same way Mechagnomes also got a port of Gnome skins.

Allied Races have not gotten anything *new*, which is fine, since I think it says they will get their own pass later -as implied by the devs saying Core Races are the priority for now- tho I can't say how long it will take.

That or *conspiracy hat on* we will be seeing a mayor paradigm shift with what Allied Races even are.

- - - Updated - - -

I seriously do not believe that. Void Elves just aren't like High Elves, and the demand will still be there. If anything it makes it more likely, because now that we already have the Blood Elf model, on the Alliance side, it's less of a big deal to give us real High Elves. Because the one point people raised prior to Void Elves was "they're not gonna give the same race to both factions". But they did give a Night Elf variant to the Horde and a Blood Elf variant to the Alliance. So that barrier has been broken down. The rest is a formality. It all depends on how much demand there is for it. The reason we got so far with Void Elves and blue eyes is because you people demanded it. If you keep demanding real High Elves, they will give in eventually, even if it takes another 15 years.

Just disagree with that; if they ever intended to give High Elves as their own AR, they just wouldn't get VE's so close to HE aesthetics. I do think that speaks volumes of the current design philosophies. Of course someone, in the future, could change their mind about that, but as it is now, I think we see a clear intentionality. If we are seeing most of the HE aesthetics on VE's now, it means they don't plan to add HE's on their own.

If I play a Void Elf, I want it to be a Void Elf. Pretending a Void Elf with blue eyes or even blonde hair is a High Elf is not doing it for me. My character window will still say Void Elf. My racial is still a void portal. My home is still a void rift. My leader is still a Void Elf (that they have completely ruined lore wise). My mount is still a void chicken and my heritage armor is still all purple. It's just never gonna be enough.

And that's up to you, but people have been playing High Elves -or other unavailable races like Wildhammers- for years with whatever is closer in terms of options. So if I have a character with a normal skin color, use a silver covenant hippogryph as mount and the SC tabard, and wears the same armor HE npc's use, holistically they are closer to a HE than a VE contrasted to a name tag and racials.

And that's a personal choice, and if you are willing to wait 15 more years to get that *true* High Elf fantasy, that's just up to you, so good luck.

Also that you say that "Alleria is ruined" kinda just says that whatever deviation from what you consider the right choice is bad. Kinda tells me whatever vision you have of High Elves in your head will never live up to the reality of them.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.wowhead.com/item=46815/queldorei-steed

if you like to have more high res mount, I think any unicorn mount added since Legion will work just fine.

ABOUT THAT! The new Mount Drop from Sundancer in Bastion is like literally an up-ressed Quel'dorei Steed

https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/item=180773/sundancer



A must have if there was any.

[Vaedan]

Indeed, AR so far had gotten only QoL adjustments, nothing actually new added specifically to them except for recolored eyes. The ostensibly gamechanger normal skins on VE, while great, are a port from the BE's in much the same way Mechagnomes also got a port of Gnome skins.

Allied Races have not gotten anything *new*, which is fine, since I think it says they will get their own pass later -as implied by the devs saying Core Races are the priority for now- tho I can't say how long it will take.

Most notable customizations added to core races are actually sub-race features (wildhammers, sand trolls, etc). Allied races are kind of sub-races on their own, so I don't expect anything "huge" added on this front, there is little potential among most of AR for this. To be honest, some AR like LF draenei or Highmountain Tauren should also be just customizations since the only difference to their core race are tatoos, horns and color palette, which is exactly what new customizations are covering for other sub-races.

That or *conspiracy hat on* we will be seeing a mayor paradigm shift with what Allied Races even are.

I really hope something will happen. If we will ever see new AR, I believe it should be different in greater way in some to its core race, like Kul Tiran to regular humans.

ABOUT THAT! The new Mount Drop from Sundancer in Bastion is like literally an up-ressed Quel'dorei Steed

https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/item=180773/sundancer



A must have if there was any.

That's definitely a must have for proper high elf look. It complement our options pretty well:

- Wild Dreamrunner: a green unicorn from Dreamweaver paragon cache - not perfect, but still usable for ranger looks
- Pureheart Courser: a light blue unicorn from 100 exalted reputation achievement - actually really great option for high elves, but getting 100 exalted reputation is a heartbreaking grind
- Lucid Nightmare: black/purple unicorn rewarded for hidden and insane puzzle - probably more fitting to void elf fantasy
- Prestigious mounts: rewards for reaching various honor levels, different color variants, equiped with additional armor compared to previous unicorns

that makes pretty good selection of high elven mounts. Great news is these unicorns will learn to fly in Shadowlands. If there is anybody not comfortable with flying unicorns, you have access to two dragonhawk mounts and dragons or hippogryffs will work just fine as well.

[delus]

I guess it depends on how you view things. If you see void elves as high elves that learned use the void then it does fulfill the high elf fantasy.

[Strippling]

The funny thing is that what do you really consider HOLY, then?

Sorry for the late reply, been away for work.

I consider HOLY in the WoW universe to be directly associated with the LIGHT. It'd kinda be weird to associate HOLY with something such as the VOID. To my knowledge, any spells in WoW that have the word "holy" in them are light based spells. Haven't heard or seen a void/shadow spells with the term "holy" in them.

Stormwind church of Light considers themself holy. Draenei vindicator and anchorites consider themself holy. Scarlet crusade tortured innocent victims and they considered themselves holy and were able to channel light just fine. Priestesses of the moon consider their faith pure and their rites sacred. Scourge also had pretty deep devotion to their cause and considered Icecrown holy. Legion also considered inner sanctum of Antorus to be holy for them. Zandalari are also holy warriors, yet until very recently, they were acting as our enemies. What faith do Forsaken have? Forgotten shadow...

In RL society the word holy could technically be used to define something "holy" or sacred to someone, but in WoW the word holy almost always is directly associated with the light. So, a holy warrior (or in other words a Paladin) is specifically a warrior of the light... hence, a warrior of the void would and should be something different altogether. Again, like I said above, find me a spell with the term "holy" that isn't a light based spell.

What is crucial for paladins in my view is their faith. They need to follow some code which they find sacred, or as you say, holy. Following those principles give paladins their strenght and conviction. What it makes even easier for Void Knights is that Light and Void are connected to each other and we've seen a Light beigns turning into Void.

What is crucial for paladins is that they use HOLY powers in combat, or in other words, they use the light in combat. They do not use the void, which is antithetical to what they actually use (the light). Void knights are as different to paladins as death knights are to them.

Again, I have no issue with the concept of void knights, but if anyone thinks it'd be fitting for them to be a "paladin skin" then they're either marred by a personal bias or they don't understand what a paladin actually is.

This is from a Forbes interview with Ion Hazzikostas and Alex Afrasiabi regarding allied races and playable classes:


Newman (interviewer): If I’m a druid, which doesn’t often get new races, is there going to be a playable allied race for me to choose on both factions?

Alex Afrasiabi: Yeah. We’ve seen Highmountain Tauren of course.

Hazzikostas: Not currently on the Alliance, no. Because for Void Elves, Lightforged Draenei, and Dark Iron Dwarves, none of those, again—asking the question, does it make sense for any of them? Are they in touch with those primal forces and restoration and shapeshifting? The answer’s no.

Newman: Shadow bear!

Afrasiabi: Void bear?

Hazzikostas: Not quite buying it. I don’t think they’d be too welcome in the Moonglade.

Newman: Are there other examples like that, where there are classes that just don’t make any sense at all with the selections available at launch?

Afrasiabi: Paladin for Void Elves, because that’s weird.

Hazzikostas: Exactly. But on the Alliance side, Dark Iron Dwarves can be paladins when those come around. We’re not approaching it from a perspective of, every box needs to be ticked and we’ll shoehorn something in if it doesn’t feel like a natural fit. But of course, in the future, this is a system that opens the door for more expansion and the addition of new races to both factions. That’s something we’ll keep in mind.

[Lahis]

So Entropic Embrace effect is not really a spell effect, but it is actually a skintone. Which means Void Elves will change their underwear midfight when it procs if they use normal skintones.

[Eric Arthur Blair]

So Entropic Embrace effect is not really a spell effect, but it is actually a skintone. Which means Void Elves will change their underwear midfight when it procs if they use normal skintones.

How much you wanna bet they decided that if Void Elves get underwear options, everyone needs to?

They are probably working on an underwear customization slider.

[FlubberPuddy]

How much you wanna bet they decided that if Void Elves get underwear options, everyone needs to?

It's not about getting underwear options, it's the fact that the skin tones Void Elves are inheriting from Blood Elves are "simply" copy/paste which is why they carry the BE underwear.

There's confirmation from a CM that the underwear will get changed to be the kind Void Elves have, sometime later - we don't really know when.

What Lahis pointed out is really just that the Entropic Embrace proc itself temporarily giving your character a different, void-ified, skin tone. Hence it has the original underwear that VEs have.

VEs aren't meant to have a choice in underwear color, though I don't doubt it's a place Blizzard could customize if they wanted. The Entropic Embrace proc proves it.

All that said, yeah we already see many solely Blood Elf players already moaning about 'not getting barely anything while VEs get all our options' so yes I definitely wouldn't be surprised to see the same solely Blood Elf players also moaning about not having underwear options.

[Ardenaso]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Archmage_Lan%27dalock

this guy seemed to be friends with a Shivarra, and she became "friendly" after Magtheridon fell; I assume he's one of the elves who were part of Kael's group that somehow went back to the Alliance?

[Wired-Lain]

All that said, yeah we already see many solely Blood Elf players already moaning about 'not getting barely anything while VEs get all our options' so yes I definitely wouldn't be surprised to see the same solely Blood Elf players also moaning about not having underwear options.

Which is really weird cause void elves didn't get anything blood elves didnt (outside of those voidy eye colors I guess?) I'm not sure why I keep seeing this sentiment.

Blood Elves have


25 hairstyles (female), 21 hairstyles (male)
17 hair colors
13 beard options
18 eye colors
3 ear options
3 necklaces
3 armbands
6 bracelets
13 earrings
2 jewelry color options


Conversely Void Elves are sitting at

11 hairstyles (female), 13 hairstyles (male)
8 hair colors
8 beard options
7 eye colors
4 earrings

The only thing void elves really have over them is the amount of skin tones, but even then all the new ones they got they share with the blood elves. I don't think blood elves are in any danger of being overshadowed on customization. Even if they went ahead and dumped some old hairstyles and colors onto the velfs they'd still come out far ahead in terms of variety.

[delus]

They could just add some of those customization options to void elves and give blood elves some light elf customization to even things out.