Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Kyriani]

Thats literally him saying they are different, not the same, unless you thing another flavour is the same flavour

I'm just telling you what the game director said. He said that Void Elves are a flavor of High Elves. Ergo, Void Elves are High Elves. Whatever mental gymnastics you want to go through to convince yourself otherwise are none of my concern.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

High elf before being anything else and the subversion was/is the race of elves who came from the night elves, thats why blood elves are high elves, sure the race have different groups, but the main problem lies when one group want take the name of the race, use to name themselves, changing the meaning of it, so people think this group is that race alone or when the other part of the discussion think the groups are no different whatsoever.

and thats why those "debates" will never die, things would be so much simple if the ones in the alliance named themselves as i dunno arcane elves. or if everyone became void elf, but well

I actually agree with this; things would be so much easier to understand if the "Modern High Elves" changed their name to anything else -IDK Silver Elves? anything would be clearer.

Cause again, it's simply an issue of self-denomination at this point, and unlike real life where there's little incentive to make sense from a narrative perspective, this is a constructed world, and the whole discussion would be far more streamlined if we could simply say:

"High Elves split into two groups; Blood Elves in the majority and Silver Elves in the minority. The former exists predominantly on the Horde, while the latter does so on the Alliance and Dalaran"

And I do believe wholeheartedly we would have faaar les cyclical arguments if this were true, but I also think things would go on a lot smoother if some people just accepted that the modern usage of High Elf is distinct from its pre Third-War incarnation, and I don't get the insistence of willingly obfuscating the issue.

-And like I get there will be some people saying "High Elves are the true High Elves because of the name" but I think everyone that actually cares about the nuance know that's just not accurate. Won't deny that's an easy branding to position a group as the true inheritors regardless, so we are back to it being far more simple if Modern High Elves changed their name to something else-

[Kyriani]

I don't get the insistence of willingly obfuscating the issue.

I just chalk that up to either a desire to try and upset those on the pro-side or a desire to fan the flames between the pro's and anti's to troll the whole lot.

[Syegfryed]

I'm just telling you what the game director said. He said that Void Elves are a flavor of High Elves. Ergo, Void Elves are High Elves. Whatever mental gymnastics you want to go through to convince yourself otherwise are none of my concern.

He literally said they are different(ergo a subrace), you are distorting what he said to fit your point, and that is not my concern indeed, we can end here

I actually agree with this; things would be so much easier to understand if the "Modern High Elves" changed their name to anything else -IDK Silver Elves? anything would be clearer.

Cause again, it's simply an issue of self-denomination at this point, and unlike real life where there's little incentive to make sense from a narrative perspective, this is a constructed world, and the whole discussion would be far more streamlined if we could simply say:

"High Elves split into two groups; Blood Elves in the majority and Silver Elves in the minority. The former exists predominantly on the Horde, while the latter does so on the Alliance and Dalaran"

those things were suggest before, but they die shortly, i think there was also something about highvale elves, storm elves, light elves, wood elves, shit, there was a plethora of names, silver elves would be dope, but people are too much dead on on the name itself and the crusade(both sides) and they don't want to let the bone go, like i seeing before, letting the name go would mean "defeat" for then.

but I also think things would go on a lot smoother if some people just accepted that the modern usage of High Elf is distinct from its pre Third-War incarnation, and I don't get the insistence of willingly obfuscating the issue.

there is some problems with this "acceptance", some people dislike things like "modern usage" because it hijack meanings making then to be different, cause, what is the name of the race then? they stop being the race, because its now used for a selective group? more confusion happens, since not everyone know that much elf lore it causes the same chaos it is now, it feels they are being robbed for their own race.

In short, the problem is how the term still is used to define the race itself to this very day, becausein fac, is what it is, not just the alliance group, thats why a name change for their group would be way better, even for the identify problem, when they label themselves as high elves it gives the impression of the race itself, not just the alliance group, that include the elves of second war and before, when the alliance elves we have today, like you said, are far more different than that in ideology and politic, they did not retain more of the "high elf traits" than the blood elves to "deserve" the name more

the high elf race, splitting in the blood elf an silver elf group would just end the entire debate, and we would not even need void elves at all

-And like I get there will be some people saying "High Elves are the true High Elves because of the name" but I think everyone that actually cares about the nuance know that's just not accurate. Won't deny that's an easy branding to position a group as the true inheritors regardless, so we are back to it being far more simple if Modern High Elves changed their name to something else-

And not everyone cares about those nuances, thats why is so hard to come to a close end.

To me, by now they should completely erase the high elf name form the game and make the alliance elves undergo the transformation in void elves, now they have the look, they can just say the ritual is more controlled, the side effects are minor and you get the power/racials. Things can end there and we will have blood elf x void elf now in the future

[Shibito]

Finally my kul tiran can enjoy the high elf rpers having sex in goldshire.

[Xilurm]

I'm just telling you what the game director said. He said that Void Elves are a flavor of High Elves. Ergo, Void Elves are High Elves. Whatever mental gymnastics you want to go through to convince yourself otherwise are none of my concern.

But that would mean Blood Elves are High Elves too. Aren't Void Elves just a group of Blood Elves that got banished for researching void magic?

Edit: Thing is though... In Telogrus Rift, you see both Blood Elves and High Elves there, probably willing to dabble in and research void magic. So technically, your character can be either of them.

Edit 2: The only thing that's forced upon you is having to side with the Alliance, probably because both of your leaders are Alliance.

[Kyriani]

But that would mean Blood Elves are High Elves too. Aren't Void Elves just a group of Blood Elves that got banished for researching void magic?

Edit: Thing is though... In Telogrus Rift, you see both Blood Elves and High Elves there, probably willing to dabble in and research void magic. So technically, your character can be either of them.

Edit 2: The only thing that's forced upon you is having to side with the Alliance, probably because both of your leaders are Alliance.

Yup Blood Elves are High Elves too. Now if you want to talk about the group that still calls themselves "High Elves", you can find some of them in Telogrus like you said.

So while the initial group of Void Elves were originally just Blood Elves that got caught in a trap, the new recruits are implied to be a mix of both Silvermoon Scholars who've defected from the Horde, and High Elf Wayfarers coming in from Stormwind (you see them arrive from the Stormwind portal), which makes Void Elves both High Elves in the sense of being of Thalassian ancestry, and also in the sense that they may be (depending on your own personal story/RP) one of the High Elves who chose exile from Silvermoon and stayed with the Alliance. And you can also go full on void options and choose being part of Umbric's original group that got zapped as your origin! Ain't options grand?

[Xilurm]

Ain't options grand?

If they make sense, yes. Otherwise no.

[Kyriani]

If they make sense, yes. Otherwise no.

Seems to make sense to me.

First Void Elf is Alleria... she mastered the Void through edumacation + absorbing power from void beings

Umbric's batch were next... got caught in prince Durzaan's trap that was supposed to turn them into Void Ethereals but it got interrupted before completion. They got void-ified. Alleria takes them under her wing

New recruits in the form of Silvermoon Scholars and High Elf Wayfarers start showing up to take void 101 classes from Alleria and Locus Walker. Which makes for a nice clean in-game explanation as to why they might not look like Umbric's void-ified group.

Obviously it would be nice if Blizzard added some lore stuff in-game to actually tell us all that, but the implications are there.

[Xilurm]

Seems to make sense to me.

First Void Elf is Alleria... she mastered the Void through edumacation + absorbing power from void beings

Umbric's batch were next... got caught in prince Durzaan's trap that was supposed to turn them into Void Ethereals but it got interrupted before completion. They got void-ified. Alleria takes them under her wing

New recruits in the form of Silvermoon Scholars and High Elf Wayfarers start showing up to take void 101 classes from Alleria and Locus Walker. Which makes for a nice clean in-game explanation as to why they might not look like Umbric's void-ified group.

Obviously it would be nice if Blizzard added some lore stuff in-game to actually tell us all that, but the implications are there.

Sorry, I was talking in-general.

But yes, this does make sense. Lore stuff would be nice but even without them you can see the NPC's inside the game and that's really the bare minimum required imo.

[FlubberPuddy]

Obviously it would be nice if Blizzard added some lore stuff in-game to actually tell us all that, but the implications are there.

I'm pretty sure going forward they will sprinkle in more High Elf NPCs here and there. They've already said they're going to diversify some of the existing rando non-descript NPCs (ones just called like "Stormwind Citizen" or w/e) and when Blood Elves got their Golden Eyes then Blizzard added it onto some Priest/Paladin NPCs to reflect the new option. Just like how there's a few Night Warrior Night Elves post Tyrande succession.

I think like many things, people gotta give it time. This is the biggest customization overhaul the game's ever had and Blizzard is looking to port it into their NPCs as well. It'll be a huge show of diversity!!

[Kyriani]

I'm pretty sure going forward they will sprinkle in more High Elf NPCs here and there. They've already said they're going to diversify some of the existing rando non-descript NPCs (ones just called like "Stormwind Citizen" or w/e) and when Blood Elves got their Golden Eyes then Blizzard added it onto some Priest/Paladin NPCs to reflect the new option. Just like how there's a few Night Warrior Night Elves post Tyrande succession.

I think like many things, people gotta give it time. This is the biggest customization overhaul the game's ever had and Blizzard is looking to port it into their NPCs as well. It'll be a huge show of diversity!!

I agree that it may just need some time, and I really hope it does happen. It'll be great seeing a wide array of diversity among the npc's populating the cities!

[Rhlor]

Good, because this is not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that no group of thalassians in the horde refer to themselves as High Elves, because the High Elves in the horde chose to name themselves Blood Elves.

Or did you think that Blood Elves were a whole different race because they couldn't have blue eyes? It's not a matter of race, but about how group self defines.

But since you are so hellbent; why do you want to call yourself a High Elf on the Horde? cause ultimately, that's what I don't get.

And from a personal level, it's not for me to get, that's why my foremost point is to simply state that there are no groups of high elves on the horde... because they refer to themselves as blood elves.

It's over 1k pages in, you gotta learn to separate the surface of high elven aesthetics from more nuanced conversations about high elves as ideological and political entities, cause otherwise we are parroting the same "Blood Elves are High Elves" discussions of years past.

This is another place where there was a race, High Elves, in the game which hadn't really been represented on player characters. Blood Elves were the closest, but had felt green eyes. It was an opportunity where we had a number of elven races, and we could tie it back to their roots, letting players choose where they want to align and what fantasy to play out. We did have a lot of discussion about it, ultimately we might do more in the future, but for now we're providing the option to have a few High Elf customizations available.
Ely Cannon, Art Director for World of Warcraft

https://es.wowhead.com/news=316803/s...-customization

[Vaedan]

This is another place where there was a race, High Elves, in the game which hadn't really been represented on player characters. Blood Elves were the closest, but had felt green eyes. It was an opportunity where we had a number of elven races, and we could tie it back to their roots, letting players choose where they want to align and what fantasy to play out. We did have a lot of discussion about it, ultimately we might do more in the future, but for now we're providing the option to have a few High Elf customizations available.
Ely Cannon, Art Director for World of Warcraft

https://es.wowhead.com/news=316803/s...-customization

Blizzard was pretty incosistent on this matter, Ion himself stating blue eyes for blood elves does not make sense just one month before this announcement. It shows they most likely had some internal talks on this matter and decided to please both factions.

Alliance was asking for high elves or high elf customizations for void elves for years.
Some blood elf fans were asking for blue eyes. My personal impression was that most of these people just wanted to trigger high elf crowd with constant repeating of "blood elves are true high elves".

It seems Blizzard finaly decided to end this fight and give all factions what they were asking for. Alliance got their doorway to high elves and blood elves got blue eyes. It was also pretty funny to watch these people who were asking for blue eyes on blood elves to be disappointed they didn't get more and instead of constructive feedback, they just complained in a style "BUT VOID ELVES TOOK OUR SKINZ" or "BUT NIGHT ELVES GOT LEAVEZ IN THE HAIR... BLIZZ WE NEED TO BE PRETTIEST ELVEZ!!!". I thought the original intention was to give void elves skin tones from blood elves to finaly provide high elf fantasy on the Alliance (which was hinted on in the past regarding void elves), and to give blood elves something in return, they got blue eye option with a RP possibility "I'm a high elf", which does not really make that big difference, since blood elves somewhat filled this fantasy already.

In the end, with new customizations added to SL so far, almost everybody got what they asked for, but there is still place for more features on many races. I only hope people who complained about lack of distinctive options for blood elves will realize it's not void elves or night elves fault blood elves got so little. It's up to blood elf fans to tell Blizzard what they want.

[Alanar]

Your comments are so strange. First you only kept saying high elves are 'fair skin with blue eyes', now when someone gives you an example of fair skin and blue eyes you say that light hair color is needed for it to be 'a high elf'. It's like those fellows who went, 'lol as long as you can't make a fair skin, blue eyed Paladin on Alliance then it's not a 'true' high elf!!' when Paladin has never been the deciding factor for whether a high elf is a high elf.

All of it seems like a roundabout way to say that only Blood Elves are high elves, when that's not true as every version of a thalassian is a high elf, whether they're blood elves or void elves (both of these were regarded as 'flavors of high elves') or the ones that continue calling themselves High Elves.

Also it's weird for you to point out that the tag for Alliance high elves will say void elf and yet completely never mention that Blood Elf rpers will face the same condition: their tag will always refer to them as a blood elf regardless of if they're RPing as a high elf.

Your commentary comes off as pedantic, especially when the developers themselves have said these new customizations coming in for Void Elves and Blood Elves are High Elf customization and that they may do more in the future in regards to the High Elf customization and the racial tag focused solely on Void Elves yet not Blood Elves.

Its the most common thing about high elves what I said. Nothing is new or strange in that regard. What are you on about? You make alot of assumptions in one post my god.

Anyway... erm

It should be obvious the same can be said about blood elves with the high elf tag and yea this was an rp element... always was the intention. On the high elf look, Blizzard kinda created this in bc with the blood elf model having blue eyes. Thus creating the wow high elf. I called it the true high elf or iconic high elf look because it is..surw you can have black hair or what ever.. I never said you cant. But when players see a blood elf with blue eyes prior shadowlands, they would be: oo hi its a high elf. Thats why.

You make this confusing.. Everything I said was said before either in a blue post or common sense.

If you feel like a high elf.. you are free to do so.. never said it wasnt. Yea you are still a void or blood elf in the end. It feels more like you reaching or trying something. I cant make much out of your post or why you quoted me for.

[Rhlor]

Blizzard was pretty incosistent on this matter, Ion himself stating blue eyes for blood elves does not make sense just one month before this announcement. It shows they most likely had some internal talks on this matter and decided to please both factions.

Alliance was asking for high elves or high elf customizations for void elves for years.
Some blood elf fans were asking for blue eyes. My personal impression was that most of these people just wanted to trigger high elf crowd with constant repeating of "blood elves are true high elves".

It seems Blizzard finaly decided to end this fight and give all factions what they were asking for. Alliance got their doorway to high elves and blood elves got blue eyes. It was also pretty funny to watch these people who were asking for blue eyes on blood elves to be disappointed they didn't get more and instead of constructive feedback, they just complained in a style "BUT VOID ELVES TOOK OUR SKINZ" or "BUT NIGHT ELVES GOT LEAVEZ IN THE HAIR... BLIZZ WE NEED TO BE PRETTIEST ELVEZ!!!". I thought the original intention was to give void elves skin tones from blood elves to finaly provide high elf fantasy on the Alliance (which was hinted on in the past regarding void elves), and to give blood elves something in return, they got blue eye option with a RP possibility "I'm a high elf", which does not really make that big difference, since blood elves somewhat filled this fantasy already.

In the end, with new customizations added to SL so far, almost everybody got what they asked for, but there is still place for more features on many races. I only hope people who complained about lack of distinctive options for blood elves will realize it's not void elves or night elves fault blood elves got so little. It's up to blood elf fans to tell Blizzard what they want.

the point is that if you play with those customizations according to blizz you are a high elf, just as you can be a sand troll or a wildhammer. you choose where you want your high elf to align

scars and tattoos are customizations blood elves players have been asking for for years! rommath has tattoos and lorthemar scar is normal that the players also like them.It is very obvious and more in the male options that the blood elves received less than other races

[Graden]

the point is that if you play with those customizations according to blizz you are a high elf, just as you can be a sand troll or a wildhammer. you choose where you want your high elf to align

scars and tattoos are customizations blood elves players have been asking for for years! rommath has tattoos and lorthemar scar is normal that the players also like them.It is very obvious and more in the male options that the blood elves received less than other races

Give Blood Elves more customizations, like more beard, scars, tattoo options etc. Give Void Elves some new hairstyles / colors (they don't have to copy paste em from the Blood Elves this time) and some blue tattoos like Alleria to please the High Elven fans, and purple for the pure Void Elves fans out there. End of story, almost everyone save a few people are gonna be happy.

[Alanar]

Sure, let's go with that.



But like, again, this isn't like some obscure knowledge or difficult to understand posture; regardless of playability, the alliance has groups of high elves, and it has since vanilla.

So that you say that aesthetically you can be closer to a HE on the horde might be a very surface take but its fine, and then go on saying that "high elves are dead in terms of where they belong" when a large part of them has been alliance since vanilla is pretty odd.

As moot your aesthetic point is -and never having said that there's no true high elf look so you kinda are confounding the issue- the fact that you still try to deny that lorewise High Elves are part of the alliance -as well as a neutral group- seems pretty pointed.

Like let's be honest, that BE and VE both get customizations that make them look like a high elf, so far hasn't affected the lore at all, where again, High Elves -through the SC, Highvale and other groups- are alliance.

But again, already pointed out that wasn't the level of nuance you weren't going for; the point was to call attention at how surface level your comment was.

I guess its because of the heated discussion or hated thread this has become over the years and I think blizz just noticed and added the blue eyes to both races, thus making that choice were they belong to the players.

I mean I am not here to discuss where they belong. But the change kinda stopped the discussion which I though was a good choice. Idk about that in current lore.. they feel more like a kirin tor thing these days and now obviously they are repreaented on both sides. Thats why that discussion is dead.

I understand you feel this way.. but shadowlands made it so they are on both sides.. so no point in discussing why thry should be alliance with warcraft 2 to silver covenant arguments. Its done.

I dissagree on your point that lore is unaffected. Its a pretty sensitive subject as you probably know. So my guess they will just leave the high elves in the middle like they did for years. Over the years more and more places were high elves lived.. have all become wretched or worse. I always took that of a sign. But now things have changed to let players decide were they feel like they should belong. Remember your opinion on where they belong is only an opinion and lore moves forward right?

Its just a highly requested option for the alliance. Giving to both was the only option.. in the end.

- - - Updated - - -

I think the void elves should also have green eyes. The silvermoon scholar are part of the void elves.

You could say that.. I think many will dissagree.
There are currenrtly 2 people here having exact this discussion.

[Rhlor]

I guess its because of the heated discussion or hated thread this has become over the years and I think blizz just noticed and added the blue eyes to both races, thus making that choice were they belong to the players.

I mean I am not here to discuss where they belong. But the change kinda stopped the discussion which I though was a good choice. Idk about that in current lore.. they feel more like a kirin tor thing these days and now obviously they are repreaented on both sides. Thats why that discussion is dead.

I understand you feel this way.. but shadowlands made it so they are on both sides.. so no point in discussing why thry should be alliance with warcraft 2 to silver covenant arguments. Its done.

I dissagree on your point that lore is unaffected. Its a pretty sensitive subject as you probably know. So my guess they will just leave the high elves in the middle like they did for years. Over the years more and more places were high elves lived.. have all become wretched or worse. I always took that of a sign. But now things have changed to let players decide were they feel like they should belong. Remember your opinion on where they belong is only an opinion and lore moves forward right?

Its just a highly requested option for the alliance. Giving to both was the only option.. in the end.

- - - Updated - - -



Dissagree..

Blood elves change to become void elves.

in telogrus

[Alanar]

This is another place where there was a race, High Elves, in the game which hadn't really been represented on player characters. Blood Elves were the closest, but had felt green eyes. It was an opportunity where we had a number of elven races, and we could tie it back to their roots, letting players choose where they want to align and what fantasy to play out. We did have a lot of discussion about it, ultimately we might do more in the future, but for now we're providing the option to have a few High Elf customizations available.
Ely Cannon, Art Director for World of Warcraft

https://es.wowhead.com/news=316803/s...-customization

Thanks for linking this. Players can choose to rp as one.. and are free to do so. You are still a void/blood elf tho.
Sute danuser said its canon, but in reality you are still a void or blood elf for most players with differnt eye color.

- - - Updated - - -

in telogrus

???
Quoted the entire post with a picture that points out void elves used to be blood elves? I already told you that lol.
Void elves are either blood or high elves.