Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Kyriani]

I'm pretty sure going forward they will sprinkle in more High Elf NPCs here and there. They've already said they're going to diversify some of the existing rando non-descript NPCs (ones just called like "Stormwind Citizen" or w/e) and when Blood Elves got their Golden Eyes then Blizzard added it onto some Priest/Paladin NPCs to reflect the new option. Just like how there's a few Night Warrior Night Elves post Tyrande succession.

I think like many things, people gotta give it time. This is the biggest customization overhaul the game's ever had and Blizzard is looking to port it into their NPCs as well. It'll be a huge show of diversity!!

I agree that it may just need some time, and I really hope it does happen. It'll be great seeing a wide array of diversity among the npc's populating the cities!

[Rhlor]

Good, because this is not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that no group of thalassians in the horde refer to themselves as High Elves, because the High Elves in the horde chose to name themselves Blood Elves.

Or did you think that Blood Elves were a whole different race because they couldn't have blue eyes? It's not a matter of race, but about how group self defines.

But since you are so hellbent; why do you want to call yourself a High Elf on the Horde? cause ultimately, that's what I don't get.

And from a personal level, it's not for me to get, that's why my foremost point is to simply state that there are no groups of high elves on the horde... because they refer to themselves as blood elves.

It's over 1k pages in, you gotta learn to separate the surface of high elven aesthetics from more nuanced conversations about high elves as ideological and political entities, cause otherwise we are parroting the same "Blood Elves are High Elves" discussions of years past.

This is another place where there was a race, High Elves, in the game which hadn't really been represented on player characters. Blood Elves were the closest, but had felt green eyes. It was an opportunity where we had a number of elven races, and we could tie it back to their roots, letting players choose where they want to align and what fantasy to play out. We did have a lot of discussion about it, ultimately we might do more in the future, but for now we're providing the option to have a few High Elf customizations available.
Ely Cannon, Art Director for World of Warcraft

https://es.wowhead.com/news=316803/s...-customization

[Vaedan]

This is another place where there was a race, High Elves, in the game which hadn't really been represented on player characters. Blood Elves were the closest, but had felt green eyes. It was an opportunity where we had a number of elven races, and we could tie it back to their roots, letting players choose where they want to align and what fantasy to play out. We did have a lot of discussion about it, ultimately we might do more in the future, but for now we're providing the option to have a few High Elf customizations available.
Ely Cannon, Art Director for World of Warcraft

https://es.wowhead.com/news=316803/s...-customization

Blizzard was pretty incosistent on this matter, Ion himself stating blue eyes for blood elves does not make sense just one month before this announcement. It shows they most likely had some internal talks on this matter and decided to please both factions.

Alliance was asking for high elves or high elf customizations for void elves for years.
Some blood elf fans were asking for blue eyes. My personal impression was that most of these people just wanted to trigger high elf crowd with constant repeating of "blood elves are true high elves".

It seems Blizzard finaly decided to end this fight and give all factions what they were asking for. Alliance got their doorway to high elves and blood elves got blue eyes. It was also pretty funny to watch these people who were asking for blue eyes on blood elves to be disappointed they didn't get more and instead of constructive feedback, they just complained in a style "BUT VOID ELVES TOOK OUR SKINZ" or "BUT NIGHT ELVES GOT LEAVEZ IN THE HAIR... BLIZZ WE NEED TO BE PRETTIEST ELVEZ!!!". I thought the original intention was to give void elves skin tones from blood elves to finaly provide high elf fantasy on the Alliance (which was hinted on in the past regarding void elves), and to give blood elves something in return, they got blue eye option with a RP possibility "I'm a high elf", which does not really make that big difference, since blood elves somewhat filled this fantasy already.

In the end, with new customizations added to SL so far, almost everybody got what they asked for, but there is still place for more features on many races. I only hope people who complained about lack of distinctive options for blood elves will realize it's not void elves or night elves fault blood elves got so little. It's up to blood elf fans to tell Blizzard what they want.

[Alanar]

Your comments are so strange. First you only kept saying high elves are 'fair skin with blue eyes', now when someone gives you an example of fair skin and blue eyes you say that light hair color is needed for it to be 'a high elf'. It's like those fellows who went, 'lol as long as you can't make a fair skin, blue eyed Paladin on Alliance then it's not a 'true' high elf!!' when Paladin has never been the deciding factor for whether a high elf is a high elf.

All of it seems like a roundabout way to say that only Blood Elves are high elves, when that's not true as every version of a thalassian is a high elf, whether they're blood elves or void elves (both of these were regarded as 'flavors of high elves') or the ones that continue calling themselves High Elves.

Also it's weird for you to point out that the tag for Alliance high elves will say void elf and yet completely never mention that Blood Elf rpers will face the same condition: their tag will always refer to them as a blood elf regardless of if they're RPing as a high elf.

Your commentary comes off as pedantic, especially when the developers themselves have said these new customizations coming in for Void Elves and Blood Elves are High Elf customization and that they may do more in the future in regards to the High Elf customization and the racial tag focused solely on Void Elves yet not Blood Elves.

Its the most common thing about high elves what I said. Nothing is new or strange in that regard. What are you on about? You make alot of assumptions in one post my god.

Anyway... erm

It should be obvious the same can be said about blood elves with the high elf tag and yea this was an rp element... always was the intention. On the high elf look, Blizzard kinda created this in bc with the blood elf model having blue eyes. Thus creating the wow high elf. I called it the true high elf or iconic high elf look because it is..surw you can have black hair or what ever.. I never said you cant. But when players see a blood elf with blue eyes prior shadowlands, they would be: oo hi its a high elf. Thats why.

You make this confusing.. Everything I said was said before either in a blue post or common sense.

If you feel like a high elf.. you are free to do so.. never said it wasnt. Yea you are still a void or blood elf in the end. It feels more like you reaching or trying something. I cant make much out of your post or why you quoted me for.

[Rhlor]

Blizzard was pretty incosistent on this matter, Ion himself stating blue eyes for blood elves does not make sense just one month before this announcement. It shows they most likely had some internal talks on this matter and decided to please both factions.

Alliance was asking for high elves or high elf customizations for void elves for years.
Some blood elf fans were asking for blue eyes. My personal impression was that most of these people just wanted to trigger high elf crowd with constant repeating of "blood elves are true high elves".

It seems Blizzard finaly decided to end this fight and give all factions what they were asking for. Alliance got their doorway to high elves and blood elves got blue eyes. It was also pretty funny to watch these people who were asking for blue eyes on blood elves to be disappointed they didn't get more and instead of constructive feedback, they just complained in a style "BUT VOID ELVES TOOK OUR SKINZ" or "BUT NIGHT ELVES GOT LEAVEZ IN THE HAIR... BLIZZ WE NEED TO BE PRETTIEST ELVEZ!!!". I thought the original intention was to give void elves skin tones from blood elves to finaly provide high elf fantasy on the Alliance (which was hinted on in the past regarding void elves), and to give blood elves something in return, they got blue eye option with a RP possibility "I'm a high elf", which does not really make that big difference, since blood elves somewhat filled this fantasy already.

In the end, with new customizations added to SL so far, almost everybody got what they asked for, but there is still place for more features on many races. I only hope people who complained about lack of distinctive options for blood elves will realize it's not void elves or night elves fault blood elves got so little. It's up to blood elf fans to tell Blizzard what they want.

the point is that if you play with those customizations according to blizz you are a high elf, just as you can be a sand troll or a wildhammer. you choose where you want your high elf to align

scars and tattoos are customizations blood elves players have been asking for for years! rommath has tattoos and lorthemar scar is normal that the players also like them.It is very obvious and more in the male options that the blood elves received less than other races

[Graden]

the point is that if you play with those customizations according to blizz you are a high elf, just as you can be a sand troll or a wildhammer. you choose where you want your high elf to align

scars and tattoos are customizations blood elves players have been asking for for years! rommath has tattoos and lorthemar scar is normal that the players also like them.It is very obvious and more in the male options that the blood elves received less than other races

Give Blood Elves more customizations, like more beard, scars, tattoo options etc. Give Void Elves some new hairstyles / colors (they don't have to copy paste em from the Blood Elves this time) and some blue tattoos like Alleria to please the High Elven fans, and purple for the pure Void Elves fans out there. End of story, almost everyone save a few people are gonna be happy.

[Alanar]

Sure, let's go with that.



But like, again, this isn't like some obscure knowledge or difficult to understand posture; regardless of playability, the alliance has groups of high elves, and it has since vanilla.

So that you say that aesthetically you can be closer to a HE on the horde might be a very surface take but its fine, and then go on saying that "high elves are dead in terms of where they belong" when a large part of them has been alliance since vanilla is pretty odd.

As moot your aesthetic point is -and never having said that there's no true high elf look so you kinda are confounding the issue- the fact that you still try to deny that lorewise High Elves are part of the alliance -as well as a neutral group- seems pretty pointed.

Like let's be honest, that BE and VE both get customizations that make them look like a high elf, so far hasn't affected the lore at all, where again, High Elves -through the SC, Highvale and other groups- are alliance.

But again, already pointed out that wasn't the level of nuance you weren't going for; the point was to call attention at how surface level your comment was.

I guess its because of the heated discussion or hated thread this has become over the years and I think blizz just noticed and added the blue eyes to both races, thus making that choice were they belong to the players.

I mean I am not here to discuss where they belong. But the change kinda stopped the discussion which I though was a good choice. Idk about that in current lore.. they feel more like a kirin tor thing these days and now obviously they are repreaented on both sides. Thats why that discussion is dead.

I understand you feel this way.. but shadowlands made it so they are on both sides.. so no point in discussing why thry should be alliance with warcraft 2 to silver covenant arguments. Its done.

I dissagree on your point that lore is unaffected. Its a pretty sensitive subject as you probably know. So my guess they will just leave the high elves in the middle like they did for years. Over the years more and more places were high elves lived.. have all become wretched or worse. I always took that of a sign. But now things have changed to let players decide were they feel like they should belong. Remember your opinion on where they belong is only an opinion and lore moves forward right?

Its just a highly requested option for the alliance. Giving to both was the only option.. in the end.

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I think the void elves should also have green eyes. The silvermoon scholar are part of the void elves.

You could say that.. I think many will dissagree.
There are currenrtly 2 people here having exact this discussion.

[Rhlor]

I guess its because of the heated discussion or hated thread this has become over the years and I think blizz just noticed and added the blue eyes to both races, thus making that choice were they belong to the players.

I mean I am not here to discuss where they belong. But the change kinda stopped the discussion which I though was a good choice. Idk about that in current lore.. they feel more like a kirin tor thing these days and now obviously they are repreaented on both sides. Thats why that discussion is dead.

I understand you feel this way.. but shadowlands made it so they are on both sides.. so no point in discussing why thry should be alliance with warcraft 2 to silver covenant arguments. Its done.

I dissagree on your point that lore is unaffected. Its a pretty sensitive subject as you probably know. So my guess they will just leave the high elves in the middle like they did for years. Over the years more and more places were high elves lived.. have all become wretched or worse. I always took that of a sign. But now things have changed to let players decide were they feel like they should belong. Remember your opinion on where they belong is only an opinion and lore moves forward right?

Its just a highly requested option for the alliance. Giving to both was the only option.. in the end.

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Dissagree..

Blood elves change to become void elves.

in telogrus

[Alanar]

This is another place where there was a race, High Elves, in the game which hadn't really been represented on player characters. Blood Elves were the closest, but had felt green eyes. It was an opportunity where we had a number of elven races, and we could tie it back to their roots, letting players choose where they want to align and what fantasy to play out. We did have a lot of discussion about it, ultimately we might do more in the future, but for now we're providing the option to have a few High Elf customizations available.
Ely Cannon, Art Director for World of Warcraft

https://es.wowhead.com/news=316803/s...-customization

Thanks for linking this. Players can choose to rp as one.. and are free to do so. You are still a void/blood elf tho.
Sute danuser said its canon, but in reality you are still a void or blood elf for most players with differnt eye color.

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in telogrus

???
Quoted the entire post with a picture that points out void elves used to be blood elves? I already told you that lol.
Void elves are either blood or high elves.

[delus]

The Ren'dorei are and have always been High elves, as they are Blood elves mutated by the Void, but the Blood elves are biologically High elves.

I also theorized in the past that the Ren'dorei are actually closer to the Highvale/Silver Covenant elves than the Blood elves, because their eyes are blue, not green. Thus I believe that the Void cleansed them of their Fel mutation (i.e. green eyes), making them biologically much closer to Vereesa and co. than the Blood elves of the Horde.

Yeah, but with the new customizations we see void elves that are physically changed little if any and they don't side with the horde, maintaining their culture.

[Rhlor]

Thanks for linking this. Players can choose to rp as one.. and are free to do so. You are still a void/blood elf tho.
Sute danuser said its canon, but in reality you are still a void or blood elf for most players with differnt eye color.

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???
Quoted the entire post with a picture that points out void elves used to be blood elves? I already told you that lol.
Void elves are either blood or high elves.

that elf with green eyes lives in telogrus with other void elves

[FlubberPuddy]

Thanks for linking this. Players can choose to rp as one.. and are free to do so. You are still a void/blood elf tho.
Sute danuser said its canon, but in reality you are still a void or blood elf for most players with differnt eye color.

This shows you're not even taking in what you're quoting. Rhlor gave you a snippet from Ely Cannon, not Danuser.

And there, Ely is saying High Elves were not really represented by player characters, Blood Elves were close, but now they're providing players with a few High Elf options and "ultimately we might do more in the future". Ely isn't talking about 'RP what you want'. Ely is literally saying they've now added High Elf options so that players can 'choose where they want to align and what fantasy to play out'.

AKA they've now given Alliance and Horde the opportunity to play with High Elf options on both sides, so the players can decide where they want their High Elves to align with (Alliance or Horde).

This is what I mean by your posts are strange, you seem more concerned with posting your thoughts while talking past others' posts rather than actually having a discussion on the points people are presenting to you.

It's so weird, never will understand why some people treat a forum like their blog.

[Alanar]

This shows you're not even taking in what you're quoting. Rhlor gave you a snippet from Ely Cannon, not Danuser.

And there, Ely is saying High Elves were not really represented by player characters, Blood Elves were close, but now they're providing players with a few High Elf options and "ultimately we might do more in the future". Ely isn't talking about 'RP what you want'. Ely is literally saying they've now added High Elf options so that players can 'choose where they want to align and what fantasy to play out'.

AKA they've now given Alliance and Horde the opportunity to play with High Elf options on both sides, so the players can decide where they want their High Elves to align with (Alliance or Horde).

This is what I mean by your posts are strange, you seem more concerned with posting your thoughts while talking past others' posts rather than actually having a discussion on the points people are presenting to you.

It's so weird, never will understand why some people treat a forum like their blog.

Sir you are all over the place with your weird assumptions.
I wasnt even directly quoting anything from ely. Even if it was.. I dont even know what your reaching at. I reread your post and your previous post and its funny when there is no ground for calling my posts weird, when you are just repeating what I already said 3 pages ago. It makes you and your posts strange.

You are simply repeating what I already said..

So I would find it a better idea you stop quoting me to start some kind of pointless fight.

I still stand with the points I made and since you like repeating me and come with pointless assumption I have to tell you to stop. You are essentially not saying anything. Which is feat on itself.

If not, next time I will find my way to the ignore button, so anything else sir?

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that elf with green eyes lives in telogrus with other void elves

Your point?

[Rhlor]

Sir you are all over the place with your weird assumptions.
I wasnt even directly quoting anything from ely. I was refering to what danuser said about those things being canon. Even if it was.. I dont even know what your reaching at.

You are simply repeating what I already said..

So I would find it a better idea you stop quoting me to start some kind of pointless fight.

I still stand with the points I made and since you like repeating me and come with pointless assumption I have to tell you to stop. You are essentially not saying anything. Which is feat on itself.

If not, next time I will find my way to the ignore button, so anything else sir?

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Your point?

that if there are elves with green eyes in telogrus they could be a customization option for void elves

[Alanar]

that if there are elves with green eyes in telogrus they could be a customization option for void elves

Please try to quote what you want to quote in the post.. it makes it super vague what you are trying to say. This took 3 posts lmao.

Yea we know.. see the discussion with screenshits 2 or 3 pages ago.

[Rhlor]

This shows you're not even taking in what you're quoting. Rhlor gave you a snippet from Ely Cannon, not Danuser.

And there, Ely is saying High Elves were not really represented by player characters, Blood Elves were close, but now they're providing players with a few High Elf options and "ultimately we might do more in the future". Ely isn't talking about 'RP what you want'. Ely is literally saying they've now added High Elf options so that players can 'choose where they want to align and what fantasy to play out'.

AKA they've now given Alliance and Horde the opportunity to play with High Elf options on both sides, so the players can decide where they want their High Elves to align with (Alliance or Horde).

This is what I mean by your posts are strange, you seem more concerned with posting your thoughts while talking past others' posts rather than actually having a discussion on the points people are presenting to you.

It's so weird, never will understand why some people treat a forum like their blog.

this is what it is about, there is no "true high elf" the two sides have high elves.

[Alanar]

this is what it is about, there is no "true high elf" the two sides have high elves.

Perfect. This post and hes shows how you guys dont even understand what this is about.

True high elf look is a blizzard/player created look where the high elves had one look realy which is the fair skin blue eye blood elf. ( i am calling it like that, just to give that iconic look a name) When players see a blood elf with blue eyes(npcs in the past) they always refer that directly to being a high elf. The only way how they were shown on game from bc and onwards. Yes once again.. shadowlands gave the players the option to choose their sides for rp reasons.

Shadowlands changed that basically. Which i know...

[shoc]

Perfect. This post and hes shows how you guys dont even understand what this is about.

True high elf look is a blizzard/player created look where the high elves had one look realy which is the fair skin blue eye blood elf. ( i am calling it like that, just to give that iconic look a name) When players see a blood elf with blue eyes(npcs in the past) they always refer that directly to being a high elf. The only way how they were shown on game from bc and onwards. Yes once again.. shadowlands gave the players the option to choose their sides for rp reasons.

Shadowlands changed that basically. Which i know...

High Elves are Trolls. Think about it. The tribe of Dark Trolls that settled around the Well of Eternity evolved into Night Elves who evolved into the High Elves (and Nightborne). Blood Elves, High Elves, Void Elves, Nightborne, Night Elf, Zandalari Trolls, are all just part of one big genealogical Troll family. Just because they adapted to new magic or new environments doesn't make them not Trolls. You can take the Elf out of the Troll but you can't take the Troll out of the Elf. /thread

[Alanar]

High Elves are Trolls. Think about it. The tribe of Dark Trolls that settled around the Well of Eternity evolved into Night Elves who evolved into the High Elves (and Nightborne). Blood Elves, High Elves, Void Elves, Nightborne, Night Elf, Zandalari Trolls, are all just part of one big genealogical Troll family. Just because they adapted to new magic or new environments doesn't make them not Trolls. You can take the Elf out of the Troll but you can't take the Troll out of the Elf. /thread

Troll master race?

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

those things were suggest before, but they die shortly, i think there was also something about highvale elves, storm elves, light elves, wood elves, shit, there was a plethora of names, silver elves would be dope, but people are too much dead on on the name itself and the crusade(both sides) and they don't want to let the bone go, like i seeing before, letting the name go would mean "defeat" for then.

there is some problems with this "acceptance", some people dislike things like "modern usage" because it hijack meanings making then to be different, cause, what is the name of the race then? they stop being the race, because its now used for a selective group? more confusion happens, since not everyone know that much elf lore it causes the same chaos it is now, it feels they are being robbed for their own race.

In short, the problem is how the term still is used to define the race itself to this very day, becausein fac, is what it is, not just the alliance group, thats why a name change for their group would be way better, even for the identify problem, when they label themselves as high elves it gives the impression of the race itself, not just the alliance group, that include the elves of second war and before, when the alliance elves we have today, like you said, are far more different than that in ideology and politic, they did not retain more of the "high elf traits" than the blood elves to "deserve" the name more

the high elf race, splitting in the blood elf an silver elf group would just end the entire debate, and we would not even need void elves at all

Honestly that's such a sticking point for me; the whole point of the name is simply denominational and should not carry any value connotations, but yeah, people on both sides keep trying to use the nomenclature issue as some sort of win, when it's literally just a classification issue.

And while I would be the first to jump on an official name change, "High Elf" as the name for both the Pre-Third War and Modern incarnations is how it is, so we gotta learn to deal with that as a whole.

High Elf means both things, but we gotta learn to contextualize, so honestly the best choice would be to simply clarify within each context, because as much as you don't like the modern usage of the term, it's the only canonical way we have to them as entities. So the best I've got so far is Pre-Third War High Elves, and Modern High Elves. If they share the name, we gotta make a distinction.

Personally, I like to use the term "Thalassian" when referring to the race + derivatives as a whole as well, because that way you bypass the whole High Elf issue and refer to every group of post-exile Highborne (VE,HE,BE)

And not everyone cares about those nuances, thats why is so hard to come to a close end.

To me, by now they should completely erase the high elf name form the game and make the alliance elves undergo the transformation in void elves, now they have the look, they can just say the ritual is more controlled, the side effects are minor and you get the power/racials. Things can end there and we will have blood elf x void elf now in the future

Indeed; as I said, with things as they are, we gotta learn to talk about it, but boy would it be 100% much easier if the remaining High Elves just changed their name. The name's importance from our perspective is simply in terms of classification. The Highvale Elves already seemed to have changed their name by cataclysm; interestingly, they are never referred as High Elves, but Highvale Elves in their quests. That seems very interesting.

So honestly, for clarity's sake, and understanding that the name from our perspective only serves a purpose, I REALLY wish they changed it. Honestly if it came to actually just dropping the High and just referring to themselves as "elves" would be enough; that way we would simply add origin to any specific group -Like say, Silver Covenant Elves or Dalarani Elves-

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This is another place where there was a race, High Elves, in the game which hadn't really been represented on player characters. Blood Elves were the closest, but had felt green eyes. It was an opportunity where we had a number of elven races, and we could tie it back to their roots, letting players choose where they want to align and what fantasy to play out. We did have a lot of discussion about it, ultimately we might do more in the future, but for now we're providing the option to have a few High Elf customizations available.
Ely Cannon, Art Director for World of Warcraft

https://es.wowhead.com/news=316803/s...-customization

Dude, you have to learn to separate the aesthetics from the lore usage of the term "High Elf", otherwise this conversation is utterly fraught.

I keep saying that "High Elves as a group don't exist on the Horde" and you keep answering with "But they can look like High Elves" completely dismissing the nuance we are talking about, which is about what each group refers to themselves within the lore.

Do you understand there's a difference between High Elf as a race in the biological sense, and High Elf as a political/ideological group? It's the same thing as Tushuii/Huojin; they are both pandaren, the same race, but each group calls themselves differently.

And again, you can 100% call your blue eyed elf on the Horde a High Elf, but what I am saying -and you refuse to engage with as a statement- is that in the lore, there aren't any groups of self denominational High Elves in the Horde. Can you please try to understand that fact within the context I am presenting?