Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Rhlor]

Sir you are all over the place with your weird assumptions.
I wasnt even directly quoting anything from ely. I was refering to what danuser said about those things being canon. Even if it was.. I dont even know what your reaching at.

You are simply repeating what I already said..

So I would find it a better idea you stop quoting me to start some kind of pointless fight.

I still stand with the points I made and since you like repeating me and come with pointless assumption I have to tell you to stop. You are essentially not saying anything. Which is feat on itself.

If not, next time I will find my way to the ignore button, so anything else sir?

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Your point?

that if there are elves with green eyes in telogrus they could be a customization option for void elves

[Alanar]

that if there are elves with green eyes in telogrus they could be a customization option for void elves

Please try to quote what you want to quote in the post.. it makes it super vague what you are trying to say. This took 3 posts lmao.

Yea we know.. see the discussion with screenshits 2 or 3 pages ago.

[Rhlor]

This shows you're not even taking in what you're quoting. Rhlor gave you a snippet from Ely Cannon, not Danuser.

And there, Ely is saying High Elves were not really represented by player characters, Blood Elves were close, but now they're providing players with a few High Elf options and "ultimately we might do more in the future". Ely isn't talking about 'RP what you want'. Ely is literally saying they've now added High Elf options so that players can 'choose where they want to align and what fantasy to play out'.

AKA they've now given Alliance and Horde the opportunity to play with High Elf options on both sides, so the players can decide where they want their High Elves to align with (Alliance or Horde).

This is what I mean by your posts are strange, you seem more concerned with posting your thoughts while talking past others' posts rather than actually having a discussion on the points people are presenting to you.

It's so weird, never will understand why some people treat a forum like their blog.

this is what it is about, there is no "true high elf" the two sides have high elves.

[Alanar]

this is what it is about, there is no "true high elf" the two sides have high elves.

Perfect. This post and hes shows how you guys dont even understand what this is about.

True high elf look is a blizzard/player created look where the high elves had one look realy which is the fair skin blue eye blood elf. ( i am calling it like that, just to give that iconic look a name) When players see a blood elf with blue eyes(npcs in the past) they always refer that directly to being a high elf. The only way how they were shown on game from bc and onwards. Yes once again.. shadowlands gave the players the option to choose their sides for rp reasons.

Shadowlands changed that basically. Which i know...

[shoc]

Perfect. This post and hes shows how you guys dont even understand what this is about.

True high elf look is a blizzard/player created look where the high elves had one look realy which is the fair skin blue eye blood elf. ( i am calling it like that, just to give that iconic look a name) When players see a blood elf with blue eyes(npcs in the past) they always refer that directly to being a high elf. The only way how they were shown on game from bc and onwards. Yes once again.. shadowlands gave the players the option to choose their sides for rp reasons.

Shadowlands changed that basically. Which i know...

High Elves are Trolls. Think about it. The tribe of Dark Trolls that settled around the Well of Eternity evolved into Night Elves who evolved into the High Elves (and Nightborne). Blood Elves, High Elves, Void Elves, Nightborne, Night Elf, Zandalari Trolls, are all just part of one big genealogical Troll family. Just because they adapted to new magic or new environments doesn't make them not Trolls. You can take the Elf out of the Troll but you can't take the Troll out of the Elf. /thread

[Alanar]

High Elves are Trolls. Think about it. The tribe of Dark Trolls that settled around the Well of Eternity evolved into Night Elves who evolved into the High Elves (and Nightborne). Blood Elves, High Elves, Void Elves, Nightborne, Night Elf, Zandalari Trolls, are all just part of one big genealogical Troll family. Just because they adapted to new magic or new environments doesn't make them not Trolls. You can take the Elf out of the Troll but you can't take the Troll out of the Elf. /thread

Troll master race?

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

those things were suggest before, but they die shortly, i think there was also something about highvale elves, storm elves, light elves, wood elves, shit, there was a plethora of names, silver elves would be dope, but people are too much dead on on the name itself and the crusade(both sides) and they don't want to let the bone go, like i seeing before, letting the name go would mean "defeat" for then.

there is some problems with this "acceptance", some people dislike things like "modern usage" because it hijack meanings making then to be different, cause, what is the name of the race then? they stop being the race, because its now used for a selective group? more confusion happens, since not everyone know that much elf lore it causes the same chaos it is now, it feels they are being robbed for their own race.

In short, the problem is how the term still is used to define the race itself to this very day, becausein fac, is what it is, not just the alliance group, thats why a name change for their group would be way better, even for the identify problem, when they label themselves as high elves it gives the impression of the race itself, not just the alliance group, that include the elves of second war and before, when the alliance elves we have today, like you said, are far more different than that in ideology and politic, they did not retain more of the "high elf traits" than the blood elves to "deserve" the name more

the high elf race, splitting in the blood elf an silver elf group would just end the entire debate, and we would not even need void elves at all

Honestly that's such a sticking point for me; the whole point of the name is simply denominational and should not carry any value connotations, but yeah, people on both sides keep trying to use the nomenclature issue as some sort of win, when it's literally just a classification issue.

And while I would be the first to jump on an official name change, "High Elf" as the name for both the Pre-Third War and Modern incarnations is how it is, so we gotta learn to deal with that as a whole.

High Elf means both things, but we gotta learn to contextualize, so honestly the best choice would be to simply clarify within each context, because as much as you don't like the modern usage of the term, it's the only canonical way we have to them as entities. So the best I've got so far is Pre-Third War High Elves, and Modern High Elves. If they share the name, we gotta make a distinction.

Personally, I like to use the term "Thalassian" when referring to the race + derivatives as a whole as well, because that way you bypass the whole High Elf issue and refer to every group of post-exile Highborne (VE,HE,BE)

And not everyone cares about those nuances, thats why is so hard to come to a close end.

To me, by now they should completely erase the high elf name form the game and make the alliance elves undergo the transformation in void elves, now they have the look, they can just say the ritual is more controlled, the side effects are minor and you get the power/racials. Things can end there and we will have blood elf x void elf now in the future

Indeed; as I said, with things as they are, we gotta learn to talk about it, but boy would it be 100% much easier if the remaining High Elves just changed their name. The name's importance from our perspective is simply in terms of classification. The Highvale Elves already seemed to have changed their name by cataclysm; interestingly, they are never referred as High Elves, but Highvale Elves in their quests. That seems very interesting.

So honestly, for clarity's sake, and understanding that the name from our perspective only serves a purpose, I REALLY wish they changed it. Honestly if it came to actually just dropping the High and just referring to themselves as "elves" would be enough; that way we would simply add origin to any specific group -Like say, Silver Covenant Elves or Dalarani Elves-

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This is another place where there was a race, High Elves, in the game which hadn't really been represented on player characters. Blood Elves were the closest, but had felt green eyes. It was an opportunity where we had a number of elven races, and we could tie it back to their roots, letting players choose where they want to align and what fantasy to play out. We did have a lot of discussion about it, ultimately we might do more in the future, but for now we're providing the option to have a few High Elf customizations available.
Ely Cannon, Art Director for World of Warcraft

https://es.wowhead.com/news=316803/s...-customization

Dude, you have to learn to separate the aesthetics from the lore usage of the term "High Elf", otherwise this conversation is utterly fraught.

I keep saying that "High Elves as a group don't exist on the Horde" and you keep answering with "But they can look like High Elves" completely dismissing the nuance we are talking about, which is about what each group refers to themselves within the lore.

Do you understand there's a difference between High Elf as a race in the biological sense, and High Elf as a political/ideological group? It's the same thing as Tushuii/Huojin; they are both pandaren, the same race, but each group calls themselves differently.

And again, you can 100% call your blue eyed elf on the Horde a High Elf, but what I am saying -and you refuse to engage with as a statement- is that in the lore, there aren't any groups of self denominational High Elves in the Horde. Can you please try to understand that fact within the context I am presenting?

[FossilFree]

High Elves are Trolls. Think about it. The tribe of Dark Trolls that settled around the Well of Eternity evolved into Night Elves who evolved into the High Elves (and Nightborne). Blood Elves, High Elves, Void Elves, Nightborne, Night Elf, Zandalari Trolls, are all just part of one big genealogical Troll family. Just because they adapted to new magic or new environments doesn't make them not Trolls. You can take the Elf out of the Troll but you can't take the Troll out of the Elf. /thread

I just wonder what the trolls' ultimate origins are. Did they evolve from dinosaurs? Or birds maybe? They do share the backwards pointing toe with modern raptors (like eagles), only with nails instead of talons.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I guess its because of the heated discussion or hated thread this has become over the years and I think blizz just noticed and added the blue eyes to both races, thus making that choice were they belong to the players.

I mean I am not here to discuss where they belong. But the change kinda stopped the discussion which I though was a good choice. Idk about that in current lore.. they feel more like a kirin tor thing these days and now obviously they are repreaented on both sides. Thats why that discussion is dead.

I understand you feel this way.. but shadowlands made it so they are on both sides.. so no point in discussing why thry should be alliance with warcraft 2 to silver covenant arguments. Its done.

I dissagree on your point that lore is unaffected. Its a pretty sensitive subject as you probably know. So my guess they will just leave the high elves in the middle like they did for years. Over the years more and more places were high elves lived.. have all become wretched or worse. I always took that of a sign. But now things have changed to let players decide were they feel like they should belong. Remember your opinion on where they belong is only an opinion and lore moves forward right?

Its just a highly requested option for the alliance. Giving to both was the only option.. in the end.

Is it that hard to understand that not because a Blood Elf can get blue eyes they are now a High Elf? This is my issue with your argument, it's completely aesthetically surface.

I think people would be overjoyed to have blue eyes on the Horde as they claimed they wanted, but to keep saying "Now the horde has high elves" feels disingenuous to that point.

Blood Elves are as much High Elves as they were before getting blue eyes, unless we -in the lore- get a Horde group of self-denominational High Elves, things remain pretty much the same, with the groups that actually refer to themselves as High Elves being either on the alliance (Silver Covenant and scattered around the Alliance) or neutral (Dalaran)

But honestly, if all you are focusing is on the blue eyes as a litmus test to what a High Elf is, sure, go ahead. If aesthetics are all you are concerned about, that's no issue of mine and you do you.

[Rhlor]

Honestly that's such a sticking point for me; the whole point of the name is simply denominational and should not carry any value connotations, but yeah, people on both sides keep trying to use the nomenclature issue as some sort of win, when it's literally just a classification issue.

And while I would be the first to jump on an official name change, "High Elf" as the name for both the Pre-Third War and Modern incarnations is how it is, so we gotta learn to deal with that as a whole.

High Elf means both things, but we gotta learn to contextualize, so honestly the best choice would be to simply clarify within each context, because as much as you don't like the modern usage of the term, it's the only canonical way we have to them as entities. So the best I've got so far is Pre-Third War High Elves, and Modern High Elves. If they share the name, we gotta make a distinction.

Personally, I like to use the term "Thalassian" when referring to the race + derivatives as a whole as well, because that way you bypass the whole High Elf issue and refer to every group of post-exile Highborne (VE,HE,BE)



Indeed; as I said, with things as they are, we gotta learn to talk about it, but boy would it be 100% much easier if the remaining High Elves just changed their name. The name's importance from our perspective is simply in terms of classification. The Highvale Elves already seemed to have changed their name by cataclysm; interestingly, they are never referred as High Elves, but Highvale Elves in their quests. That seems very interesting.

So honestly, for clarity's sake, and understanding that the name from our perspective only serves a purpose, I REALLY wish they changed it. Honestly if it came to actually just dropping the High and just referring to themselves as "elves" would be enough; that way we would simply add origin to any specific group -Like say, Silver Covenant Elves or Dalarani Elves-

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Dude, you have to learn to separate the aesthetics from the lore usage of the term "High Elf", otherwise this conversation is utterly fraught.

I keep saying that "High Elves as a group don't exist on the Horde" and you keep answering with "But they can look like High Elves" completely dismissing the nuance we are talking about, which is about what each group refers to themselves within the lore.

Do you understand there's a difference between High Elf as a race in the biological sense, and High Elf as a political/ideological group? It's the same thing as Tushuii/Huojin; they are both pandaren, the same race, but each group calls themselves differently.

And again, you can 100% call your blue eyed elf on the Horde a High Elf, but what I am saying -and you refuse to engage with as a statement- is that in the lore, there aren't any groups of self denominational High Elves in the Horde. Can you please try to understand that fact within the context I am presenting?

There it says that it adds the high elves as a race! and that everyone can choose where they want their high elf (race) to align. if you play a blood elf with high elf customization you are a high elf and if you play a void elf with high elf customization you are a high elf.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

There it says that it adds the high elves as a race! and that everyone can choose where they want their high elf (race) to align. if you play a blood elf with high elf customization you are a high elf and if you play a void elf with high elf customization you are a high elf.

...And you are still unable or downright unwilling to understand what I am trying to say.

Dude, I literally said

And again, you can 100% call your blue eyed elf on the Horde a High Elf

So it's either willful ignorance or utter lack of reading comprehension.

[shoc]

Some people simply will not settle for anything less than the Silver Covenant High Elves being made playable, despite being a footnote in the lore with no future.

That's what they've worked themselves up to want over a decade of whining for playable High Elves and Void Elves (despite adding novel characteristics) hurts their precious sense of bizarre virtual racial purity.

[Ardenaso]

I just wonder what the trolls' ultimate origins are. Did they evolve from dinosaurs? Or birds maybe? They do share the backwards pointing toe with modern raptors (like eagles), only with nails instead of talons.

there's one certain animal that has tusks, same skin palette as Zandalari, and regenerates insanely; I think that one?

[Rhlor]

...And you are still unable or downright unwilling to understand what I am trying to say.

Dude, I literally said



So it's either willful ignorance or utter lack of reading comprehension.

is what the developers say! that the customizations represent races: high elf or sand trolls for example. high elves are a race for blizzard! that's the difference between you and me, that you talk about one thing and I say what the devs say!

[Xilurm]

You could say that.. I think many will dissagree.
There are currenrtly 2 people here having exact this discussion.

I was just thinking about that. It makes sense. You could just RP as a Blood Elf that wanted to join the Alliance but couldn't since everytime they tried it was thwarted and Alleria was the perfect chance.

[Rhlor]

I was just thinking about that. It makes sense. You could just RP as a Blood Elf that wanted to join the Alliance but couldn't since everytime they tried it was thwarted and Alleria was the perfect chance.

in the new book shadow rising there is a blood elf rogue who works for the alliance as a spy in the horde

[Phaelia]

What’s hilarious to me, is that now that it’s good for them, the prohelfers are super happy with what devs say and use it as law. Makes me smile.

[Xilurm]

in the new book shadow rising there is a blood elf rogue who works for the alliance as a spy in the horde

Why does that sound a lot like Valeera Sanguinar? In that case, she's been "alliance" since before Vanilla.

[Rhlor]

Why does that sound a lot like Valeera Sanguinar? In that case, she's been "alliance" since before Vanilla.

nope
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Narsilla_Keensight

[Xilurm]

nope
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Narsilla_Keensight

Ah, a mercenary sort of. Don't think I'd ever roleplay something like that but to each their own.

But still though. Considering Alleria is regarded as such a big hero it makes sense that there would be Blood Elves who'd want to side with her.