Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Phaelia]

..but the Venthyr are so unappealing. (Definitely not Vincent Valentine) It's like how they made a majority of the Allied races not attractive. Let's not promote less alluring Allied races. We only got three out of ten that look good wearing mogs. We got two elves one was completely neglected (looks awkward in most armor) and the other received special treatment. *points to thread title*

Now I have heard the masses and they don't want more elves and I don't blame them. We have four playable elf races. We don't need no more !

They don't have to be elves to be desirable. I am personally rooting for some new type of alien species or some type of ancient civilization that gets unearthed in a later expansion. (Azeroth getting struck with that sword, could've unearthed something..)It can really just be any type of new species. People could think of lots of ways to implement them. Either way less clunky, ugly Allied races. Looking at you mechagnomes.

Uh, hi I would gladly play the “ugly” Venthyr. Sorry you don’t agree and are only attracted to superficial beauty but the fact remains many people will enjoy playing Venthyr. You sound a lot like someone on the WoW forums that was similarly minded. That only physical beauty is the way to go. Sad.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

tell me what is the ideological difference between blood elves vs high elves? being part of a faction is not an ideological difference. idiology is something that transcends nation states or geopolitical alliances! China and Vietnam, despite being ideologically communist, went to war with each other.

Do you know why the capitalist United States recognized communist China and practically betrayed capitalist China (Taiwan)? Because for the United States, having a country like China as an ally against the Soviet Union was something that geopolitically was much more useful!

Tell me then what would have been the ideological difference between the high elves and blood elves if in pandaria quelthalas had joined the alliance.

Dude, politics ARE ideology, there's no way to pretend otherwise, to pretend politics don't affect ideology. Ideology is not just one aspect about a group, but the all of their aspects that define them as such, it's impossibly to remove political affiliation when by definition affects their policies and ideologies.

Regardless, Blood Elves and Modern High Elves have distinct ideologies; the fact that for starters, one group chooses to name themselves after their fallen and the other doesn't makes very clear there ARE ideological differences; to pretend BE and HE are "the same" when they have gone through huge sociocultural changes dells both groups short.

And yes, even when politics OBVIOUSLY affect ideology -cause literally politics are themselves ideology- Modern High Elves and Blood Elves are culturally different, and would still be so if they were on the same faction. The only advantage is that if their politics allign, then they can more easily talk reunification.

But for real dude, the fact that Blood Elves and High Elves see themselves as differtent groups with different goals makes pretty darn obvious they ideologies do not match, Otherwise they would be united.

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Yeah thought so pretty much. Just wasn't sure because Night Elves have multiple tints of blue. Blue which apparently means arcane connection. White blue which leans more towards light. But there ain't a purple one so I wasn't sure. Nelves are inherently attuned to arcane anyway so it would make sense if they had the option to get purple eyes. I think.

Could be, II really don't have much more besides the former theory!

Well actually... I was having a stroll around SW to see how the NPC's have changed and all that, and since they added the Void Elf NPC's that are walking around now I saw these two, which assume are new? Atleast the one with the Void Elf must be, unless she was walking alone before.




So if these two High Elves are new, it can't be a bug and is most likely on purpose that they have purple eyes?

Edit: Also this could've very well been posted before so sorry if it has been.

Yeah, all those NPCs are there since 7.3. Just like any other HE females, they got purple eyes with the update -they used to have blue ones-.



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dunno how to explain it, forgive my language barrier but sure, a Blood Elf who has blue eyes is still a Blood Elf, but a High Elf who has green eyes has to be a Blood Elf, "former" at least; they would have to be in Silvermoon for quite some time after the schism and then have their eyes turn green due to exposure from the fel crystals

but yeah I prefer if they were simple oversights and be High Elves actually; considering that anyone with green eyes should feel hunted and prejudiced by the Alliance on hindsight

I would agree; a green eyed High Elf would be pretty rare, as would require them to have come in contact with fel radiation for a long time and didn't try to prevent it, which overall does make them plausible, but also highly unlikely to exist.

Cause if we have a HE warlock in Dalaran that kept his blue eyes, must mean it's not just about fel exposure and there are ways to prevent it, and any High Elf who doesn't want to be seen as a BE because of prejudice, would take such meassures.

High elves in Allerian stronghold should technically have green eyes. I imagine their exposure to fel would have been much greater than say farstrider blood elves residing predominantly in the forests outside of QT.

Or maybe the fact that none of the high Elves in Terrokar have green eyes just means that zone at least isn't as fel irradiated as other. In fact, the precence of Maghar as well also supports the theory that Outland isn't as seeped in fel as people like to think.

[Rhlor]

Dude, politics ARE ideology, there's no way to pretend otherwise, to pretend politics don't affect ideology. Ideology is not just one aspect about a group, but the all of their aspects that define them as such, it's impossibly to remove political affiliation when by definition affects their policies and ideologies.

Regardless, Blood Elves and Modern High Elves have distinct ideologies; the fact that for starters, one group chooses to name themselves after their fallen and the other doesn't makes very clear there ARE ideological differences; to pretend BE and HE are "the same" when they have gone through huge sociocultural changes dells both groups short.

And yes, even when politics OBVIOUSLY affect ideology -cause literally politics are themselves ideology- Modern High Elves and Blood Elves are culturally different, and would still be so if they were on the same faction. The only advantage is that if their politics allign, then they can more easily talk reunification.

But for real dude, the fact that Blood Elves and High Elves see themselves as differtent groups with different goals makes pretty darn obvious they ideologies do not match, Otherwise they would be united.

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Could be, II really don't have much more besides the former theory!



Yeah, all those NPCs are there since 7.3. Just like any other HE females, they got purple eyes with the update -they used to have blue ones-.



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I would agree; a green eyed High Elf would be pretty rare, as would require them to have come in contact with fel radiation for a long time and didn't try to prevent it, which overall does make them plausible, but also highly unlikely to exist.

Cause if we have a HE warlock in Dalaran that kept his blue eyes, must mean it's not just about fel exposure and there are ways to prevent it, and any High Elf who doesn't want to be seen as a BE because of prejudice, would take such meassures.





Or maybe the fact that none of the high Elves in Terrokar have green eyes just means that zone at least isn't as fel irradiated as other. In fact, the precence of Maghar as well also supports the theory that Outland isn't as seeped in fel as people like to think.

ideology is a set of values, political, economic, social and cultural.

I can understand that at the political level there are thalassians who are with the alliance, those thalassians can self identify themselves, as high elves, blood elves and void elves.

but that's all I think there is a self-identification of groups of people with a name but that does not define an idiology. I also do not see a cultural change since it is the same culture

[Icelin]

Uh, hi I would gladly play the “ugly” Venthyr. Sorry you don’t agree and are only attracted to superficial beauty but the fact remains many people will enjoy playing Venthyr. You sound a lot like someone on the WoW forums that was similarly minded. That only physical beauty is the way to go. Sad.

You're being presumptuous with calling me superficial. This isn't reality. I don't mean to be unkind in breaking this to you, but for WoW the most popular race is the epitome of superficial beauty. In fact it's what this whole topic over 1100ush + pages is about.

I want more desirable looking Allied races. I think there is nothing wrong with asking that. More so when 3 out of 10 actually met that demand (Why I request more. As the demand was not fulfilled.) and surprise, surprise.. which Allied race is the most popular?

Why would my tastes in a fake reality (videogame) bother you? It's for fun and apparently a majority of the playerbase have fun playing those superficial looking races. You can't argue with numbers...

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

ideology is a set of values, political, economic, social and cultural.

Indeed, so you can't divorce the politics any more than any of the others.

I can understand that at the political level there are thalassians who are with the alliance, those thalassians can self identify themselves, as high elves, blood elves and void elves.

but that's all I think there is a self-identification of groups of people with a name but that does not define an idiology.

No, the point is that each group exists BECAUSE they have different ideologies. If their ideologies truly match, they would be together! Even if it was JUST the political aspect, that by itself differing separates their ideologies as a whole.

I also do not see a cultural change since it is the same culture

And this is where you lose me; cause I don't know if I can mantain a conversation with someone that believes that current Blood Elf ideology is THE SAME thay High Elf ideology pre third war, let alone modern, alliance High Elf ideology. The differences are just too apparent IMO to accept in good faith someone not seeing them, so IDK how to even answer to that.

Blood Elves thematically rose like the Phoenix, reinventing themselves as a people willing to do everything for survival, far removed from their previous complacency, to dismiss the whole sociocultural change Blood Elves went through and what they became after their crucible, is truly a disservice to their narrative. That they call themselves Blood Elves is not just a swanky new name, but a whole paradigm shift from what we were.

And yet! Modern High Elves are as, if not MORE removed from Pre Third War High Elves, they now exist within a human context, without attempting sovereignty and instead assimilating; how is that not a huge ideological shift from being a kingdom? Their goals are clearly different than those of BE's, and Pre Third War HE's, so the sheer notion they have the same ideology, that even their culture is still the same when their contexts have changed so WILDLY since the Fall of Quel'thalas is just flat out wrong.

Only way BEs and modern HE's have the same culture is if you dismiss all they have gone through since the fall.

[Phaelia]

You're being presumptuous with calling me superficial. This isn't reality. I don't mean to be unkind in breaking this to you, but for WoW the most popular race is the epitome of superficial beauty. In fact it's what this whole topic over 1100ush + pages is about.

I want more desirable looking Allied races. I think there is nothing wrong with asking that. More so when 3 out of 10 actually met that demand (Why I request more. As the demand was not fulfilled.) and surprise, surprise.. which Allied race is the most popular?

Why would my tastes in a fake reality (videogame) bother you? It's for fun and apparently a majority of the playerbase have fun playing those superficial looking races. You can't argue with numbers...

Quite a hostile reply, but I guess I can’t be surprised. I’ll be happy when the Venthyr are playable, because they will be.

[Ielenia]

Danuser stated there was a reason why the blacksmith had blue eyes, so we know there intentionality behind that one at least. Alas, they ARE in game, so we can't just dismiss them as bugs because they don't fit a narrative.

https://twitter.com/stevedanuser/sta...87595542433792

Considering who we're talking about here, I'm leaning more toward the idea that it was just a mistake but the guy just said that to generate buzz.

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Well actually... I was having a stroll around SW to see how the NPC's have changed and all that, and since they added the Void Elf NPC's that are walking around now I saw these two, which assume are new? Atleast the one with the Void Elf must be, unless she was walking alone before.




So if these two High Elves are new, it can't be a bug and is most likely on purpose that they have purple eyes?

Edit: Also this could've very well been posted before so sorry if it has been.

I'm going on a limb here and throw a wild hypothesis here: Blizzard is 'seeding' a possible "void mage"-y class. I mean, the high elf sorceress has purple eyes, the color of the old void elf eyes, and then we look at Exile's March, and we have Meredy Huntswell, a dwarf mage (because she acts as the "mage trainer") who casts a void spell on you to polymorph you into an orgre.

[Ardenaso]

valeera lived in stormwind for years, there are blood elves in telogrus, saw has a blood elf spy as agent.

I mean in the time of WoD since the Purge of Dalaran was just recent; while Valeera is a special case considering she is known by everyone for some time

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Quite a hostile reply, but I guess I can’t be surprised. I’ll be happy when the Venthyr are playable, because they will be.

but why would afterlife care about the beforelife?

[Phaelia]

I mean in the time of WoD since the Purge of Dalaran was just recent; while Valeera is a special case considering she is known by everyone for some time

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but why would afterlife care about the beforelife?

I’m not sure how it would work but Revendreth looks more like a real place than any of the other realms we’ve seen thus far, with poor and rich alike. I could see some Venthyr fleeing from the endless cycle, and coming to Azeroth. They don’t burn in daylight per se, just the Holy Light. I could see them as one of the few races that can’t be Priests, as Holy Light could literally kill them. A lot to unpack but I would love to play one.

[Vaedan]

Tell me then what would have been the ideological difference between the high elves and blood elves if in pandaria quelthalas had joined the alliance.

Well, for a person who claims to love blood elves and their lore, that should be obvious.

Blood Elves:
- Chose to respect their past, but forge new future
- They decided to use any means necessary to ensure their survival
- They decided it's easier to exile all elves who disagree with a general trend then to find a common ground
- They never forget what they had to endure and what path they had to take, even though they now admit they did many things wrong and try to redeem themselves
- They are now Light worshippers, which was never before an important thing in thalassian society.

High Elves:
- They chose to respect their past in trying to preserve the image of what high elves used to be, on the contrary of blood elves who willingly redefined themselves
- They chose to not take extreme measures in order to survive
- They find it easier to leave their kin and stay with old Alliance allies in order to stay true to their believes
- They didn't forget or forgive blood elves what they put them through with the exile
- Belief in the Light is not crucial for them. Sure, there are Light users/worshippers amongs high elves, but nowhere near the practice sin'dorei has chosen.

With blood elves being on the same faction, I guess both groups could start unification, but it would not be an instant process. You can see that with void elves... there were no unification of Alliance high elves and void elves, so there is no reason to believe high elves would merge with blood elves immediately if they happen to be on the same faction. The fact they were separated in the time of greatest crisis of the nation, it forged them into different groups. Mistakes were made on both teams and right now, either group does not seem to be interested in a friendship.

And this is where you lose me; cause I don't know if I can mantain a conversation with someone that believes that current Blood Elf ideology is THE SAME thay High Elf ideology pre third war, let alone modern, alliance High Elf ideology. The differences are just too apparent IMO to accept in good faith someone not seeing them, so IDK how to even answer to that.

Blood Elves thematically rose like the Phoenix, reinventing themselves as a people willing to do everything for survival, far removed from their previous complacency, to dismiss the whole sociocultural change Blood Elves went through and what they became after their crucible, is truly a disservice to their narrative. That they call themselves Blood Elves is not just a swanky new name, but a whole paradigm shift from what we were.

And yet! Modern High Elves are as, if not MORE removed from Pre Third War High Elves, they now exist within a human context, without attempting sovereignty and instead assimilating; how is that not a huge ideological shift from being a kingdom? Their goals are clearly different than those of BE's, and Pre Third War HE's, so the sheer notion they have the same ideology, that even their culture is still the same when their contexts have changed so WILDLY since the Fall of Quel'thalas is just flat out wrong.

Only way BEs and modern HE's have the same culture is if you dismiss all they have gone through since the fall.

I think both blood elves and modern high elves (well, this alliance elf group should find their own name) were both trying to preserve an image of their kingdom as it used to be before Third War. Blood elves at first did not really felt it important, since they had to deal with threats encroaching on their lands, so they did what they thought was important for their survival. We've seen they are interested in returning to some of their traditions lately, but their heritage armor quest pretty much shows us that they will never forget what they went through. It changed them, so they no longer can be that same elves. They even don't want to be. High elves, on the other hand, had other problems. They had to cope with their addiction in their own way, with a help from the Alliance or without it. The fact that some of them resided in relative safety of Alliance cities, Dalaran or their remote lodges, gave them more space to actually uphold their old traditions and keep them. Given their low numbers, an absent leader and exposure to the human way of life eventually led to a degree of assimilation.

It is interesting that even though both groups tried to preserve themselves, both have changed fundamentally from their original forms. Both groups took something from the original high elves and had to change the rest. Perhaps, if they ever unite, they could together make Quel'thalas society similar to what it has been before, but we know it most likely won't happen.

[Rhlor]

Well, for a person who claims to love blood elves and their lore, that should be obvious.

Blood Elves:
- Chose to respect their past, but forge new future
- They decided to use any means necessary to ensure their survival
- They decided it's easier to exile all elves who disagree with a general trend then to find a common ground
- They never forget what they had to endure and what path they had to take, even though they now admit they did many things wrong and try to redeem themselves
- They are now Light worshippers, which was never before an important thing in thalassian society.

High Elves:
- They chose to respect their past in trying to preserve the image of what high elves used to be, on the contrary of blood elves who willingly redefined themselves
- They chose to not take extreme measures in order to survive
- They find it easier to leave their kin and stay with old Alliance allies in order to stay true to their believes
- They didn't forget or forgive blood elves what they put them through with the exile
- Belief in the Light is not crucial for them. Sure, there are Light users/worshippers amongs high elves, but nowhere near the practice sin'dorei has chosen.

With blood elves being on the same faction, I guess both groups could start unification, but it would not be an instant process. You can see that with void elves... there were no unification of Alliance high elves and void elves, so there is no reason to believe high elves would merge with blood elves immediately if they happen to be on the same faction. The fact they were separated in the time of greatest crisis of the nation, it forged them into different groups. Mistakes were made on both teams and right now, either group does not seem to be interested in a friendship.



I think both blood elves and modern high elves (well, this alliance elf group should find their own name) were both trying to preserve an image of their kingdom as it used to be before Third War. Blood elves at first did not really felt it important, since they had to deal with threats encroaching on their lands, so they did what they thought was important for their survival. We've seen they are interested in returning to some of their traditions lately, but their heritage armor quest pretty much shows us that they will never forget what they went through. It changed them, so they no longer can be that same elves. They even don't want to be. High elves, on the other hand, had other problems. They had to cope with their addiction in their own way, with a help from the Alliance or without it. The fact that some of them resided in relative safety of Alliance cities, Dalaran or their remote lodges, gave them more space to actually uphold their old traditions and keep them. Given their low numbers, an absent leader and exposure to the human way of life eventually led to a degree of assimilation.

It is interesting that even though both groups tried to preserve themselves, both have changed fundamentally from their original forms. Both groups took something from the original high elves and had to change the rest. Perhaps, if they ever unite, they could together make Quel'thalas society similar to what it has been before, but we know it most likely won't happen.

High Priest Vandellor was one of the most important people in Quelthalas. the worship of light was the official religion of the high elves.
The only group that went into exile for not wanting to eat the mana wrynn were those who today are wretched or neutral and lorthemar tried to make peace with them and they were never part of the alliance in the lore.

[Vaedan]

High Priest Vandellor was one of the most important people in Quelthalas. the worship of light was the official religion of the high elves.
The only group that went into exile for not wanting to eat the mana wrynn were those who today are wretched or neutral and lorthemar tried to make peace with them and they were never part of the alliance in the lore.

I'm not sure where you get the information that High Priest Vandellor was one of the most important people. He was close friend to Liadrin's family and her mentor, and that's basically most we know of him. Not to mention that Liadrin was not really important person prior to her status of Blood Knight Matriarch. Vandellor is not mentioned in most sources and he is present only briefly during blood elf heritage armor quest, where Liadrin had to put him down. Does not strike me as one of the most powerful man in the kingdom.

There was faith in the Light among the elves of Quel'thalas, but it was not as dominant as in human kingdoms. Elves had priests, but close to none paladins. The major organisations in Quel'thalas were Farstriders and Magisters. Another thing is that quite a lot of elven priests converted to blood knights, who manipulated the Light, using it forcefuly. It does not show they had Light in some great respect or reverence at all. Elven worship of the Light get serious after restoration of Sunwell and blood elves are first to fully dedicate themselves to the Light.

[Lady Atia]

I usually use that transmog with my bloodelf bloodknight (as homage to Liadrian's TBC gear), but it works so well with the Silver Covenant tabard!









I was initially unsure about the artifact shield, but it has grown on me and fits the colour scheme quite well - and I figured the high elves would use something forged from the scale of a Dragon Aspect ^.^

[Ardenaso]

I'm not sure where you get the information that High Priest Vandellor was one of the most important people.

he's a member of the Convocation of Silvermoon; he's pretty much the original Liadrin

[Lumineus]

that kinda looked more like the WC3 Lordaeronian armor, they have eagles too

I mean, first of all you have to understand that the humans' armor in the RTS games is generically Alliance, otherwise the prince of Lordaeron wouldn't be strutting around wearing Stormwind iconography. Secondly... c'mon man, it has the actual Silvermoon crest as the belt buckle.

[FlubberPuddy]

I was initially unsure about the artifact shield, but it has grown on me and fits the colour scheme quite well - and I figured the high elves would use something forged from the scale of a Dragon Aspect ^.^

Looks really great! Thank you for sharing!!

Honestly I'm still surprised by how well most of the 'non-normal hair colors' look and work with the alliance high elves looks. Very much appreciate all the sharings goings on, even from the cousin faction blood elf-high elf looks

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I mean, first of all you have to understand that the humans' armor in the RTS games is generically Alliance, otherwise the prince of Lordaeron wouldn't be strutting around wearing Stormwind iconography. Secondly... c'mon man, it has the actual Silvermoon crest as the belt buckle.

Also back in WC3 times Lordaeron may have had eagles because of the high elves that were among their ranks at the time. It's why Stromgarde Warfront has weapon/armor models with eagles on them, it's a homage to the time of large groups of high elves working with the Alliance.


http://classic.battle.net/war3/human/

"The Human Alliance is a conglomeration of Humans, Elves, and Dwarves. They are the most versatile army in Warcraft III, with good ground and air troops, excellent siege capability, and powerful spellcasters."

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Considering who we're talking about here, I'm leaning more toward the idea that it was just a mistake but the guy just said that to generate buzz.

Don't discount it, but it's the sort of thing one has to consider at face value. It's just bad praxis to deem something untruthful, but also not going to consider it a strong source, specially when it's incomplete it. As I see it, is just another example of blue eyes Blood Elves, which they already are possible by the context and lore, so I really don't feel a need to question what he says.

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I think both blood elves and modern high elves (well, this alliance elf group should find their own name) were both trying to preserve an image of their kingdom as it used to be before Third War. Blood elves at first did not really felt it important, since they had to deal with threats encroaching on their lands, so they did what they thought was important for their survival. We've seen they are interested in returning to some of their traditions lately, but their heritage armor quest pretty much shows us that they will never forget what they went through. It changed them, so they no longer can be that same elves. They even don't want to be. High elves, on the other hand, had other problems. They had to cope with their addiction in their own way, with a help from the Alliance or without it. The fact that some of them resided in relative safety of Alliance cities, Dalaran or their remote lodges, gave them more space to actually uphold their old traditions and keep them. Given their low numbers, an absent leader and exposure to the human way of life eventually led to a degree of assimilation.

It is interesting that even though both groups tried to preserve themselves, both have changed fundamentally from their original forms. Both groups took something from the original high elves and had to change the rest. Perhaps, if they ever unite, they could together make Quel'thalas society similar to what it has been before, but we know it most likely won't happen.

Exactly, both groups try to honor and preserve their own interpretation of what they use to be, yet is undeniable they have changed, because they have done things Pre Third War thalassians just never had to deal with. BE and Modern High Elves -which for easy-ness sake should change their name to something else- both deal with their trauma different way, becoming different from each other, and different from what they used to be.

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I'm not sure where you get the information that High Priest Vandellor was one of the most important people. He was close friend to Liadrin's family and her mentor, and that's basically most we know of him. Not to mention that Liadrin was not really important person prior to her status of Blood Knight Matriarch. Vandellor is not mentioned in most sources and he is present only briefly during blood elf heritage armor quest, where Liadrin had to put him down. Does not strike me as one of the most powerful man in the kingdom.

There was faith in the Light among the elves of Quel'thalas, but it was not as dominant as in human kingdoms. Elves had priests, but close to none paladins. The major organisations in Quel'thalas were Farstriders and Magisters. Another thing is that quite a lot of elven priests converted to blood knights, who manipulated the Light, using it forcefuly. It does not show they had Light in some great respect or reverence at all. Elven worship of the Light get serious after restoration of Sunwell and blood elves are first to fully dedicate themselves to the Light.

Light worship just doesn't seem to be as entrenched in Pre Third War HE culture, not in the way it does for Humans and Dwarves -the RPG, as non canon as they are, states that light worship did not penetrate as deep into HE society, which is in line with the portrayals we have seen.

And what we have seen, is that yes, light worship was a thing in their society, to the point there was a High Priest, not the games nor the books present light worship as a defining part of elven life and society

he's a member of the Convocation of Silvermoon; he's pretty much the original Liadrin

I can't find a reference of Vandellor being a part of the Convocation of Silvermoon, where would that be mentioned?

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Also back in WC3 times Lordaeron may have had eagles because of the high elves that were among their ranks at the time. It's why Stromgarde Warfront has weapon/armor models with eagles on them, it's a homage to the time of large groups of high elves working with the Alliance.


http://classic.battle.net/war3/human/

"The Human Alliance is a conglomeration of Humans, Elves, and Dwarves. They are the most versatile army in Warcraft III, with good ground and air troops, excellent siege capability, and powerful spellcasters."

But is eagle symbolism meant to be of elven origin? Specially now, that eagle symbolism in HE's has been downplayed and almost retconed. Cause IMO we have the BE phoenix bird symbolism now, and I do feel that gets retrioactively used for HE stuff -such as HE banners-

That's an issue I think, that HE's aesthetics are mostly represented by just reused stuff designed for BE's, does that make sense? Like you can see Quel'thalas was designed with a lot of what should be specifically BE iconography, even when it's mean from a former time -which could be read as eagle iconography, but it feels off given it's represented with mostly BE assets, and as not been addressed by itself?

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I'm going on a limb here and throw a wild hypothesis here: Blizzard is 'seeding' a possible "void mage"-y class. I mean, the high elf sorceress has purple eyes, the color of the old void elf eyes, and then we look at Exile's March, and we have Meredy Huntswell, a dwarf mage (because she acts as the "mage trainer") who casts a void spell on you to polymorph you into an orgre.

I really do like that idea, but I don't think the evidence is there, considering the purple eyes are now on every HE female -which seems like a bug considering the texture exist for males but unused- and those purple eyes could as well be arcane based rather than void. And besides, these Sorceress were added on 7.3, when their eyes were blue.



But I always liked the clear idea that High Elf scholars are interested in the Void and in good terms with their VE kin; honestly I have been expecting for something to be done with that since Legion :/

[Ielenia]

Don't discount it, but it's the sort of thing one has to consider at face value. It's just bad praxis to deem something untruthful, but also not going to consider it a strong source, specially when it's incomplete it. As I see it, is just another example of blue eyes Blood Elves, which they already are possible by the context and lore, so I really don't feel a need to question what he says.

I'm not saying he's lying, I'm just saying that I don't believe what he is saying to be true. The guy is infamous for his storytelling, and saying "I know what it is but I'm not telling" sounds rather immature, like it's the kind of stuff a child would say to tease the other kids.

I mean, it's not like we're talking about the fate of important NPCs the likes of Anduin, Sylvanas, Thrall or Genn and revealing it would spoil major expansion plot points. It's a frigging background NPC that shows up in a single instance and then never again. I mean, what harm to the lore would it cause to say that the guy is just a high elf that deserted to the blood elves, or that he's a blood elf that got blue eyes by drinking too much Kungaloosh in one sitting?

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I really do like that idea, but I don't think the evidence is there, considering the purple eyes are now on every HE female -which seems like a bug considering the texture exist for males but unused- and those purple eyes could as well be arcane based rather than void. And besides, these Sorceress were added on 7.3, when their eyes were blue.

https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/scree...-sorceress.jpg

But I always liked the clear idea that High Elf scholars are interested in the Void and in good terms with their VE kin; honestly I have been expecting for something to be done with that since Legion :/

Which is why I never gave the idea much credit until I saw the dwarf mage in the Exiles' Reach zone casting a void spell, and that got my brain thinking.

[FlubberPuddy]

But is eagle symbolism meant to be of elven origin? Specially now, that eagle symbolism in HE's has been downplayed and almost retconed. Cause IMO we have the BE phoenix bird symbolism now, and I do feel that gets retrioactively used for HE stuff -such as HE banners-

That's an issue I think, that HE's aesthetics are mostly represented by just reused stuff designed for BE's, does that make sense? Like you can see Quel'thalas was designed with a lot of what should be specifically BE iconography, even when it's mean from a former time -which could be read as eagle iconography, but it feels off given it's represented with mostly BE assets, and as not been addressed by itself?

Eagle probably originally was for High Elves, but then changed to Phoenix when Blood Elves became about as a sort of 'rebirth' type theme.

And yeah I believe the HEs stuff being reused BE stuff is because most likely they didn't think back in 2006-2010 (When BEs released TBC and we had HEs feature in WotLK) that they'd get as much community love for High Elves as they did. Also the idea of 'Allied Races' wasn't probably even a thought back when the main idea was 'feature a couple new races, one for each faction every other expac or so'.

So I like to think it's just a case of the game has moved so far ahead in design than what it used to be back then that they didn't think of those things before much at all, even though it was already there (like the Stromgarde Warfront stuff having eagle insignia and that Warfront specifically was made to harken back to WC3 times).

[Ardenaso]

I mean, first of all you have to understand that the humans' armor in the RTS games is generically Alliance, otherwise the prince of Lordaeron wouldn't be strutting around wearing Stormwind iconography. Secondly... c'mon man, it has the actual Silvermoon crest as the belt buckle.

ah, didn't see that Silvermoon crest; the upper portion looked like Uther's design, or at least a derivative of it

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I can't find a reference of Vandellor being a part of the Convocation of Silvermoon, where would that be mentioned?

I confused him with Belo'vir, my bad

but either way I'd think Vandellor's most likely on of the ruling houses