Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Lady Atia]

Looks really great! Thank you for sharing!!

Honestly I'm still surprised by how well most of the 'non-normal hair colors' look and work with the alliance high elves looks. Very much appreciate all the sharings goings on, even from the cousin faction blood elf-high elf looks

Well, I use crazy hair colors in real life too, so I'm all in for them on my characters :P let's hope they add some more blues and reds to all races in the future *_*

[Kyriani]

Which is why I never gave the idea much credit until I saw the dwarf mage in the Exiles' Reach zone casting a void spell, and that got my brain thinking.

I get that the illusion spell being cast by the dwarf uses what we would consider a void-colored spell animation, but other than that, there's nothing indicating that it's actually a void-based spell. It's an illusion spell... much like the mage spell Illusion (learned from https://www.wowhead.com/item=136799/...-tome-illusion). I wouldn't put much credence behind the animation used.

[Ielenia]

I get that the illusion spell being cast by the dwarf uses what we would consider a void-colored spell animation, but other than that, there's nothing indicating that it's actually a void-based spell. It's an illusion spell... much like the mage spell Illusion (learned from https://www.wowhead.com/item=136799/...-tome-illusion). I wouldn't put much credence behind the animation used.

Considering the multitude of spell animations that exist within the game, I'd say that the spell animation chosen does have some meaning, at least to some extent.

However, discussing potential new class ideas is off-topic to this thread, so let's leave it at that.

[Edoll]

I get that the illusion spell being cast by the dwarf uses what we would consider a void-colored spell animation, but other than that, there's nothing indicating that it's actually a void-based spell. It's an illusion spell... much like the mage spell Illusion (learned from https://www.wowhead.com/item=136799/...-tome-illusion). I wouldn't put much credence behind the animation used.

The NPC says it’s void magic in her gossip text, and also Druidic.

[Kyriani]

The NPC says it’s void magic in her gossip text, and also Druidic.

Oh! I didn't see that gossip text! I'll have to be on the look out for that next time I do Exile's Reach! Thanks for mentioning that!

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I'm not saying he's lying, I'm just saying that I don't believe what he is saying to be true. The guy is infamous for his storytelling, and saying "I know what it is but I'm not telling" sounds rather immature, like it's the kind of stuff a child would say to tease the other kids.

I mean, it's not like we're talking about the fate of important NPCs the likes of Anduin, Sylvanas, Thrall or Genn and revealing it would spoil major expansion plot points. It's a frigging background NPC that shows up in a single instance and then never again. I mean, what harm to the lore would it cause to say that the guy is just a high elf that deserted to the blood elves, or that he's a blood elf that got blue eyes by drinking too much Kungaloosh in one sitting?

Honestly I kinda agree, that's why I think just accepting there's a reason why that BE has blue eyes -even if we don't know the reason- is the best we can do with the presented information.

Which is why I never gave the idea much credit until I saw the dwarf mage in the Exiles' Reach zone casting a void spell, and that got my brain thinking.

I really hope it's one of those things they didn't intended, but for are going for, so fingers crossed. If we get 4th specs someday, which now that we are moving away for spec restriction again seems more feasible than ever, mage is one of the perfect classes to add a Void based spec; there could be a very cool gameplay based on spatial alteration.

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I confused him with Belo'vir, my bad

but either way I'd think Vandellor's most likely on of the ruling houses

Maybe, but yeah, the fact there's so little regarding what the High Priest role was on Thalassian culture, just further compounds how light worship is far down below the list of most important/relevant roles in thalassian culture.

It was a part, but we can't confidently say how important or intrinsic it was for Pre Third War thalassian ideology as a whole. Basically that's what I am saying.

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Eagle probably originally was for High Elves, but then changed to Phoenix when Blood Elves became about as a sort of 'rebirth' type theme.

And yeah I believe the HEs stuff being reused BE stuff is because most likely they didn't think back in 2006-2010 (When BEs released TBC and we had HEs feature in WotLK) that they'd get as much community love for High Elves as they did. Also the idea of 'Allied Races' wasn't probably even a thought back when the main idea was 'feature a couple new races, one for each faction every other expac or so'.

So I like to think it's just a case of the game has moved so far ahead in design than what it used to be back then that they didn't think of those things before much at all, even though it was already there (like the Stromgarde Warfront stuff having eagle insignia and that Warfront specifically was made to harken back to WC3 times).

Indeed, so that's what muddles the issue for me, cause a lot of the origin of the iconography was retconed to be phoenixes on BC, and the War3 origins and meanings of bird symbolism just have not been delved into at all post WoW, so it seems as if the phoenix iconography as retroactively supplanted that. It's kinda weird that we don't see High Elves in WoW use any bird-like symbolism beyon reused BE assets meant to be phoenixes, so overall there's just a big inconsistency of how HE aesthetics gave way to BE ones.

And part of the issue is that High Elves pre Third War just didn't seem to have a strong iconography, to the point eagle symbolism that we assumed of elven origin on the alliance in current depictions it just comes across as of Lordaeron origin, specifically around Hillsbrad.



Which makes the bird/eagle iconography we see currently in the alliance more likely to have that origin instead of the kinda retconned HE imagery.

As a tangential, even on Alleria herself the bird imagery seems to be downplayed, replaced by leafs and vines on her design, only her bow resembling any avian features



Which then leads me to another theory; given the lack of actual eagles on Quel'thalas, it seems more likely that the avian imagery we see in high elves would be Dragonhawks, not eagles. Unlike eagles, who as a species has no appearances on Quel'thalas, Dragonhawks are as common place as lynxes, so it kinda makes more sense the vague avian iconography of high elves comes from dragonhawks given the context. They look a lot like hawks, it's part of their name so the ressemblance is there; they have feathers which explain the recurring feather motifs on thalassian armor -including Alleria's- even when there are no native bird of prey species on QT.

[Ielenia]

Honestly I kinda agree, that's why I think just accepting there's a reason why that BE has blue eyes -even if we don't know the reason- is the best we can do with the presented information.

I think the simplest and most adequate answer, for what we know so far, is that it's a mistake from Blizzard's part that they never noticed and didn't bother fixing it after they found out.

I believe if there was really something actually tangible in the lore that explains why the NPC has blue eyes instead of green, it'd have been revealed by now. But all we have is Danuser's "I'm not telling, teheh~" statement that doesn't mean anything. And considering that tweet was done back during MoP (I think? I couldn't find the actual tweet to confirm) and nothing else about that particular NPC has been exposed so far, leads me to believe that Danuser was talking out of his ass.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I think the simplest and most adequate answer, for what we know so far, is that it's a mistake from Blizzard's part that they never noticed and didn't bother fixing it after they found out.

I believe if there was really something actually tangible in the lore that explains why the NPC has blue eyes instead of green, it'd have been revealed by now. But all we have is Danuser's "I'm not telling, teheh~" statement that doesn't mean anything. And considering that tweet was done back during MoP (I think? I couldn't find the actual tweet to confirm) and nothing else about that particular NPC has been exposed so far, leads me to believe that Danuser was talking out of his ass.

Yeah but that's the thing, you are putting more weight on your theory that it's a bug because you don't wanna believe Danuser is being truthful -his tweet is from sept 2019 btw https://twitter.com/stevedanuser/sta...87595542433792 I had already linked it-

So like, it's bad praxis to try to discredit a source because it doesn't fit a desired narrative. Like if I'm being honest,I wouldn't have given BE blue eyes, but it's not my decision, and Lanesh isn't the only BE with blue eyes, so trying to discredit Danuser himself doesn't sit well with me, because if we deem him untrusworthy in general, then nothing of what he says has any validity, even when he is the Lead Narrative Designer?

At most I can take what he says with a pinch of salt, but I can't be hypocritical and just discount what he says when my whole ethos about the thing is to look at the sources and find consistent interpretations.

And again, ultimately, Lanesh is not the only Blood Elf with blue eyes, so whatever validity this tweet has, is just one part. They could all be bugs, but until they are confirmed to be bugs, we really can't decide that for ourselves.

[Syegfryed]

And again, ultimately, Lanesh is not the only Blood Elf with blue eyes, so whatever validity this tweet has, is just one part. They could all be bugs, but until they are confirmed to be bugs, we really can't decide that for ourselves.

why there is a thing about blood elves getting blue eyes? they have several canon ways of having it

1) blood elves never affected by fel energies, not in silvermoon/quelthalas at time they used the crystal
2) high elves who came back after the sunwell got cleaned/after they opened the portal to outland
3)the fel taint was cleaned by the sunwell
4) We know for a fact that elves eyes glow with energy they use, and if you use one it will overwrite the last one, so, they just start using arcane more and got blue-eyes

Which is why elves should get a big more pallet of eye colors in general, like both getting purple arcane eyes and void elves getting some purple back for the void.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

why there is a thing about blood elves getting blue eyes? they have several canon ways of having it

1) blood elves never affected by fel energies, not in silvermoon/quelthalas at time they used the crystal
2) high elves who came back after the sunwell got cleaned/after they opened the portal to outland
3)the fel taint was cleaned by the sunwell
4) We know for a fact that elves eyes glow with energy they use, and if you use one it will overwrite the last one, so, they just start using arcane more and got blue-eyes

Which is why elves should get a big more pallet of eye colors in general, like both getting purple arcane eyes and void elves getting some purple back for the void.

Exactly; they could have enforced a distinction WHY BE's couldn't get blue eyes, but it has been a while where there have been multiple ways blue eyes for BE's could feasibly be a thing, so it feels kinda moot questioning the validity of one NPC when he's not the only one even.

Sure, we don't have a confirmed sole reason, but it really can be any of the above, so I don't really think it's worth the hassle to ponder if Danuser is being truthful about that one NPC *shrug*

Personally, the only reason I saw for not giving BE's was a metatextual one, not an in-universe one. If they wanted to keep races looking distinct regarding faction, that would be one way -specially considering they made VE's to look as off from BE's as they could- but since they made VE and BE share eye colors and skin tones, there really isn't any reason why BE shouldn't have blue eyes, in universe or meta ones-

Is as ridiculous than Void Elves not having more natural hair colors -ostensibly the thing about one's appearance most easy to change- but being able to retain natural skin tones and eye colors.

[Ielenia]

Yeah but that's the thing, you are putting more weight on your theory that it's a bug because you don't wanna believe Danuser is being truthful -his tweet is from sept 2019 btw https://twitter.com/stevedanuser/sta...87595542433792 I had already linked it-

Ah, so it's way more recent than I imagined. Still, doesn't really change what I said regarding the lore of the character.

So like, it's bad praxis to try to discredit a source because it doesn't fit a desired narrative. Like if I'm being honest,I wouldn't have given BE blue eyes, but it's not my decision, and Lanesh isn't the only BE with blue eyes, so trying to discredit Danuser himself doesn't sit well with me, because if we deem him untrusworthy in general, then nothing of what he says has any validity, even when he is the Lead Narrative Designer?

I'm not discrediting him "because it doesn't fit my narrative". I'm discrediting what him for basically one reason: his answer literally doesn't say anything of value. He could have responded the question with "I like pie" and would have answered the question just as much as the original answer.

And again, ultimately, Lanesh is not the only Blood Elf with blue eyes, so whatever validity this tweet has, is just one part. They could all be bugs, but until they are confirmed to be bugs, we really can't decide that for ourselves.

But we can decide for ourselves, as long as we don't try to pass off our interpretation of the information (and what little there is of it) as canon fact. And again, it's a random background NPC with no importance whatsoever to the story. Danuser's words, if we take them at face value, heavily imply that this character is important to an important story. However, the character is literally a nobody: he doesn't have any dialogue lines, he doesn't offer or end any quests, or even participate in any quest. To suddenly elevate him like this feels really cheap and contrived.

Which, incidentally, fits my opinion of Danuser's writing, so there's that.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Ah, so it's way more recent than I imagined. Still, doesn't really change what I said regarding the lore of the character.


I'm not discrediting him "because it doesn't fit my narrative". I'm discrediting what him for basically one reason: his answer literally doesn't say anything of value. He could have responded the question with "I like pie" and would have answered the question just as much as the original answer.


But we can decide for ourselves, as long as we don't try to pass off our interpretation of the information (and what little there is of it) as canon fact. And again, it's a random background NPC with no importance whatsoever to the story. Danuser's words, if we take them at face value, heavily imply that this character is important to an important story. However, the character is literally a nobody: he doesn't have any dialogue lines, he doesn't offer or end any quests, or even participate in any quest. To suddenly elevate him like this feels really cheap and contrived.

Which, incidentally, fits my opinion of Danuser's writing, so there's that.

IDK man, the part where you think his backstory is important seems more your interpretation. The way I read it, Danuser is saying there's a story behind he hopes to tell in game, not that's he will be suddenly very important, and that kinda comes across bias against Danuser, because he's basically saying "oh yeah, there's a reason that guy has blue eyes, hope we address that in game"

And that's pretty much it, Danuser -again, whether we like him or not- is the Lead Narrative Designer, so if he basically says "there's a reason this guy has blue eyes" is pretty arrogant to say otherwise.

Mind you, all it means it's not a bug, we still don't know the specifics of it -because most likely it's not that interesting of a story- That's it; it confirms it's not a bug.

[Syegfryed]

Sure, we don't have a confirmed sole reason, but it really can be any of the above, so I don't really think it's worth the hassle to ponder if Danuser is being truthful about that one NPC *shrug*

no everything need to be detailed explained anyway, if it was like that, people would no take as true a lot of shit in this game and stat to nitpick every single thing

Is as ridiculous than Void Elves not having more natural hair colors -ostensibly the thing about one's appearance most easy to change- but being able to retain natural skin tones and eye colors.

i think void elves should not get the lighter hair colors, at least is one thing to show their mutation of the void, darkening at least the hair, black is fair game, but white and yellow should be something unique to blood elves, let then have t least one thing.

[Lahis]

I get that the illusion spell being cast by the dwarf uses what we would consider a void-colored spell animation, but other than that, there's nothing indicating that it's actually a void-based spell. It's an illusion spell... much like the mage spell Illusion (learned from https://www.wowhead.com/item=136799/...-tome-illusion). I wouldn't put much credence behind the animation used.

She explicitly calls the illusion a mixture of nature and void magic.

[Frenchvince]

i think void elves should not get the lighter hair colors, at least is one thing to show their mutation of the void, darkening at least the hair, black is fair game, but white and yellow should be something unique to blood elves, let then have t least one thing.

Alleria is a void elf who keeps her high elf appearance, so she keeps her hair blonde as well.
The demand for hair colors is legitimate and necessarily possible.

Anyway now, there are no longer any differences between a Void Elf and a Blood Elf in full armor.

[Vaedan]

i think void elves should not get the lighter hair colors, at least is one thing to show their mutation of the void, darkening at least the hair, black is fair game, but white and yellow should be something unique to blood elves, let then have t least one thing.

White and blond hair colors are not unique for blood elves in any way. In fact, from all playable races, void elves are ONLY race who don't have white hair option. Alleria have blonde hair, so I would not restrict void elves to that color either. Blood elves also got blue hair color tones, which is something what was void elf thing before (well, different tones, but still blue).

I also don't think hair colors are the most optimal options for maintaining unique feature of the race. I'd rather see blood elves getting runic tattoos and similar stuff and void elves getting something different for these races having different flavors.

On the other hand, if there have to be some differences in hair colors, I think brown and red color tones are the best candidates to remain on blood elves only.

[Varodoc]

Anyway now, there are no longer any differences between a Void Elf and a Blood Elf in full armor.

3 years ago, you mean? Since there was no way to distinguish a fully-plated Void elf from a fully-plated Blood elf.

No, you won't notice ear colour in the game.

[Ielenia]

IDK man, the part where you think his backstory is important seems more your interpretation. The way I read it, Danuser is saying there's a story behind he hopes to tell in game, not that's he will be suddenly very important, and that kinda comes across bias against Danuser, because he's basically saying "oh yeah, there's a reason that guy has blue eyes, hope we address that in game"

Well, yes. I thought that was obvious. And yes, I do believe his words imply that this "story" he claims he wants to tell is important, because, if it wasn't, I think he'd just have outright say it instead of going "I know but I'm not telling, teheh~"

And that's pretty much it, Danuser -again, whether we like him or not- is the Lead Narrative Designer, so if he basically says "there's a reason this guy has blue eyes" is pretty arrogant to say otherwise.

Well, of course there is a reason. And his words imply that the reason for it is not mundane, otherwise I don't see any reason why he wouldn't just say stuff like "he's a former Silver Covenant elf that returned to Silvermoon", for example.

Mind you, all it means it's not a bug, we still don't know the specifics of it -because most likely it's not that interesting of a story- That's it; it confirms it's not a bug.

It doesn't, really. It does not, at all. Because it could just be a PR cover story. Like 2K games saying they "didn't intend to put unskippable adds during loading screens" in their latest NBA game when it was clear it was intended.

Think about it: the high elf discussion has been one of, if not the most heated and long-discussed topic in WoW. I think, from a PR standpoint, it's better to throw fuel to the fire than to quench the discussion.

[Syegfryed]

Alleria is a void elf who keeps her high elf appearance, so she keeps her hair blonde as well.
The demand for hair colors is legitimate and necessarily possible.

lets not pretend this is about alleria, and she is a special case because ate a dark naaru, she always was, wanting to be like he and not doing hat she did seems unfair, especially when we have npcs with things that we also can't dp.

Anyway now, there are no longer any differences between a Void Elf and a Blood Elf in full armor.

people said it never had before too.

White and blond hair colors are not unique for blood elves in any way

compared to void elves they have, you have to compare on the same subrace not outside, like normal orcs don't have brown skin, normal dwarves don't have dark iron skin, void elves should no even get the skin, but they did, at least let the hair color be different.

In fact, from all playable races, void elves are ONLY race who don't have white hair option. Alleria have blonde hair, so I would not restrict void elves to that color either. Blood elves also got blue hair color tones, which is something what was void elf thing before (well, different tones, but still blue).

nothing blood elves got was from void elves, they get their death knight option.

I also don't think hair colors are the most optimal options for maintaining unique feature of the race. I'd rather see blood elves getting runic tattoos and similar stuff and void elves getting something different for these races having different flavors.

people will ask for the same tattoos later down the road, cause reasons, so thing should stop somewhere before void elvs became virtually 2 races

On the other hand, if there have to be some differences in hair colors, I think brown and red color tones are the best candidates to remain on blood elves only.

why brown?

red, white and blonde seems fair.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

i think void elves should not get the lighter hair colors, at least is one thing to show their mutation of the void, darkening at least the hair, black is fair game, but white and yellow should be something unique to blood elves, let then have t least one thing.

Nah, it really makes no sense in universe when, unlike skin and eye color, you can dye hair.

To limit Void Elves to only dark hair colors would simply be an arbitrary forced distinction from a meta level, specially when their leader has natural blonde color, and now VE's can have her skin tone AND eye color.

If it's arbitrary, it's just arbitrary.

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It doesn't, really. It does not, at all. Because it could just be a PR cover story. Like 2K games saying they "didn't intend to put unskippable adds during loading screens" in their latest NBA game when it was clear it was intended.

Think about it: the high elf discussion has been one of, if not the most heated and long-discussed topic in WoW. I think, from a PR standpoint, it's better to throw fuel to the fire than to quench the discussion.

Dude if you wanna start a conspiracy theory about this I'm not your guy. What if Danuser has just wanted to give blue eyes to Blood Elves for a while and he has peppered some here and there? If he says there was a reason that guy has blue eyes, to contradict that you are simply saying he is lying.

Because you are literally saying he is not being truthful when he says there is a reason -possibly a very unimportant one- that guy had blue eyes and instead you chose to believe it's a conspiracy theory PR cover story? That's just ilogical

Dude, the lead narrative designer said there was a reason, it's not a bug. Even if it started as a bug they changed their mind. What are you even arguing against? The official statement is that there's a reason for his eyes, so it's really you just not accepting the facts because they don't suit you. Hardly any different than all those people that said HE's are un-viable as an AR despite the facts.

All of this is you simply not wanting Blood Elves to have blue eyes. just like Syegfryed not wanting VE's to have white and blonde hair -despite Alleria having blonde hair.
Y'all need to check your biases, pretty please.

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Alleria is a void elf who keeps her high elf appearance, so she keeps her hair blonde as well.
The demand for hair colors is legitimate and necessarily possible.

Anyway now, there are no longer any differences between a Void Elf and a Blood Elf in full armor.

Trying to enforce strict aesthetic differences when they have already been discounted as unnecessary -silhouette argument, coloration argument- and contradict lore depictions -Alleria's blonde hair, specially when her skin tone and eye color are available to players- is just illogical bias at this point