Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Alanar]

That argument is valid for Calia and Gallywix, and even Nathanos.

But not for Sylvanas.

Sylvanas is a different race than the forsaken player characters, and a whole different entity altogether. The forsaken players are basically self-aware zombies, while Sylvanas is a banshee inhabiting her dead body. And on top of that, Sylvanas is an elf while the forsaken players are humans.

People still wanted to look like her... thats the point.
So why isnt that valid? She might be a differnt race, but she was still a character many poeple looked up to and wanted her looks. Idk why it matters that she is a undead high elf. For undead its.. weird since looking at the lore many forsaken are suppose to be high elves anyway. So the question would be why isnt that option available.

[Vaedan]

The request for a Nathanos type of undead were defo out there in threads, maybe not as popular as sylvanas back in the day, but when he received that new model the interest was there for sure.

Yea I have to agree with sygefred here altho hes on ignore lol. If you give those colors to void elves you basically have 2 blood elves races, which is not realy fair. I would suggest some mixed colors or more pale like. Keep the void in void elves and dont make a blood elf 2.0.

Well, yes, I noticed some people requesting Nathanos look, but these were not really so popular. The thing is, there will be always people demanding basically anything which is non-playable to be made playable. People asked for ogres, vrykul, tuskarr, murlocs, jinyiu, gilblin and numerous other options. It doesn't mean Blizz have to implement these only because few people want it. They better keep focused on meaningful requests.

To be honest, I don't actually like the idea of copying all color pallete from blood elves to void elves either. I'd settle with black color, since void elf NPCs already have that option and specificaly black hair should be an option for goth styled race. I also want white hair option, since that color is available on all races except void elves, so it's hardly color associated strongly with blood elves, like red or blonde. At the end of the day, if void elves won't get any new hair colors, I'd be just fine with options they have now. Grey, silver and several shades of blue are enough for me.

I'm more interested in new hairstyles though. Again, I don't think Blizz should just copy all blood elf hairstyles to void elves. There are few hairstyles blood elves are sharing with humans, night elves and draenei, so I wouldn't mind seeing these hairstyles open for void elves too.

[Ielenia]

People still wanted to look like her... thats the point.

Yeah, but "wanting" it doesn't mean it can or even that it should be done. We're talking about completely different races, here. The forsaken player race is comprised of Lordaeron humans. That's kind of like me wanting my lightforged draenei to look like a human because of Turalyon.

So why isnt that valid? She might be a differnt race, but she was still a character many poeple looked up to and wanted her looks. Idk why it matters that she is a undead high elf. For undead its.. weird since looking at the lore many forsaken are suppose to be high elves anyway. So the question would be why isnt that option available.

You said it yourself: she is a different race. Not just while living (elf vs human) but also while undead (banshee vs zombie).

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And again you rip things out of context.

You asked my why I am here if I "don't care". And I answered it.

You're doing it intentionally because you are looking for a confrontation and you want to annoy people.

I asked why you are here arguing official lore when you stated you didn't care what the official lore states.

[Syegfryed]

Forsaken players cannot make their characters look like Sylvanas because their leader is a different race than the players. Forsaken players are humans, Sylvanas is a blood elf.

Blood elf players cannot make their characters look like Sylvanas because she is an undead. Blood elf players are living elves, Sylvanas is an undead elf.

Not a hard concept to grasp, I hope.

funny, and his come to the previous arguments of how Alleria isn't a void elf, but a high elf, so, why should void elves get her look? or this argument is dropped and people finally accept she is a void elf?

Forsaken was always about a faction of undead, see how it is "forsaken" and not "undead humans" in the race screen, it was not just about humans at all, we saw several other undeads being forsaken, include elves

If void elves can look like high elves, despite being void elves and not high elves, AKA, another race, why the forsaken can't pick from the different races the forsaken are made?

yeah because just because the leader look one way you don't have to look like that.

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Calia is actually not Forsaken leader as was stated in Shadow's Rising. She is kind of advisor for Voss who seems to be the one who will probably lead Forsaken in the future.

Calia is a co-leader and will be the defacto leader later on, she is a authority figure and still forsaken can't look like that, neither like their previous Leaders Like Nathanos and Sylvanas, so this is not rly a vallid point.

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I wonder what the next tantrum will be about.

What other options blood elves have that void elves don't? that will be

probably paladins too later

[Ardenaso]

And yet to this day forsaken (or blood elf) players cannot make their characters look like Sylvanas, who was their racial leader for 15 years or so. Void elves have been around for only 2 years and yet the entitlement level that they should look like Alleria is jaw dropping. The PC doesn't always get to look like leaders, leaders often have unique features to distinguish them from your "average joe".

that's why we need to push for Dark Rangers and San'layn for Forsaken!

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Probably because Sylvanas is a banshee piloting an Elven corpse while Alleria is the prototype for the entire void elf race. Sylvanas does not share anything in common with the Forsaken besides being dead

Dark Rangers are Forsaken. Forsaken is all things free willed undead

[Alanar]

Yeah, but "wanting" it doesn't mean it can or even that it should be done. We're talking about completely different races, here. The forsaken player race is comprised of Lordaeron humans. That's kind of like me wanting my lightforged draenei to look like a human because of Turalyon.


You said it yourself: she is a different race. Not just while living (elf vs human) but also while undead (banshee vs zombie).

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I asked why you are here arguing official lore when you stated you didn't care what the official lore states.

But I dont get why that is an issue for the point that was made. You keep telling me she is a differnt race, but it doesnt matter in that people always want to look like their leader. She is forsaken.. same as what you play.. a forsaken. The request by players to look.like her was and still is polular.

Your example of a dreanei to look like a human is somewhat extreme.. and sylvanas has been their leader for 15 years and the player was never able to look like her.
So in that case your argument is true that the player was never able to get that look.

In vanilla she used a night elf model.. the request came when she got her own unqiue model in wrath I believe.

About sylvanas.. well you can get a whole discussion on that she is still forsaken and most of the scourge who broke free had alot of elves. So you can even ask the question why we never had the option to be an undead elf in that sense. I mean are they called undead humans? I see your point, but I dissagree.

[vagnar]

I asked why you are here arguing official lore when you stated you didn't care what the official lore states.

I didn't come here to argue lore, it was thrown at me. I then conceded the point so I didn't have to argue it.

[shoc]

This thread is the worst thing to ever happen to MMO-Champ, it's cancer and I can't help but feel unsettling white supremacist sentiment from some of the posters.

[Alanar]

Well, yes, I noticed some people requesting Nathanos look, but these were not really so popular. The thing is, there will be always people demanding basically anything which is non-playable to be made playable. People asked for ogres, vrykul, tuskarr, murlocs, jinyiu, gilblin and numerous other options. It doesn't mean Blizz have to implement these only because few people want it. They better keep focused on meaningful requests.

To be honest, I don't actually like the idea of copying all color pallete from blood elves to void elves either. I'd settle with black color, since void elf NPCs already have that option and specificaly black hair should be an option for goth styled race. I also want white hair option, since that color is available on all races except void elves, so it's hardly color associated strongly with blood elves, like red or blonde. At the end of the day, if void elves won't get any new hair colors, I'd be just fine with options they have now. Grey, silver and several shades of blue are enough for me.

I'm more interested in new hairstyles though. Again, I don't think Blizz should just copy all blood elf hairstyles to void elves. There are few hairstyles blood elves are sharing with humans, night elves and draenei, so I wouldn't mind seeing these hairstyles open for void elves too.

Players want to look like their leader or want option that are not available to us is nothing new. But you cant speak for everyone that you dont find it meaningfull and focus on other stuff. I care about looks and options myself.

Nathanos was always pretty popular and the hate to him was only starting in legion. There were a couple of thread about hes looks and for him specially was linked instantly do a playable dark ranger class. Most of the discussion was about that eventually.

The point is that doesnt matter the race, their leaders always look differnt and stand out and sometimes certain looks become polular and you get requests.. only natural of you ask me.

Yea just new stuff would be the best option.. give void elves their own unique things and try to stay away from blood elves would be my suggestion. Hopefully allied races will get as much love.. lets not even start about nightborne.

[Vaedan]

I am not sure what you are trying to say realy..
Players want to look like their leader or want option that are not available to us is nothing new. But you cant speak for everyone that you dont find it meaningfull.

Nathanos was always pretty popular and the hate to him was only starting in legion. There were a couple of thread about hes looks and for him specially was linked instantly do a playable dark ranger class. Most of the discussion was about that eventually.

The point is that doesnt matter the race, their leaders always look differnt and stand out and sometimes certain looks become polular and you get requests.. only natural of you ask me.

My point was that we can't really focus on argument "but people will want this playable", because there will be always people asking for many things. The important thing is what vision Blizzard have with their game and so far, they express no interest in making any alternative models for undead players to allow them play in this dark ranger/nathanos style fantasy. On the other hand, they expressed they want to make high elf an option for players on both sides. They most likely decided to do so on behalf of long standing request of allowing high elf options.

Well, pre-Legion Nathanos looked like regular Forsaken. As he got his new appearance and his new portrayal, his popularity went downhill pretty quickly. I also don't have a problem with leaders looking different. I think it is OK they are distinctive... but there is a good question of what makes them unique compared to regular persons. I don't think hair colors in particular are as much important and defining feature for any race. When we got fair skin, having natural hair seems like a small issue now.

[Alanar]

My point was that we can't really focus on argument "but people will want this playable", because there will be always people asking for many things. The important thing is what vision Blizzard have with their game and so far, they express no interest in making any alternative models for undead players to allow them play in this dark ranger/nathanos style fantasy. On the other hand, they expressed they want to make high elf an option for players on both sides. They most likely decided to do so on behalf of long standing request of allowing high elf options.

Well, pre-Legion Nathanos looked like regular Forsaken. As he got his new appearance and his new portrayal, his popularity went downhill pretty quickly. I also don't have a problem with leaders looking different. I think it is OK they are distinctive... but there is a good question of what makes them unique compared to regular persons. I don't think hair colors in particular are as much important and defining feature for any race. When we got fair skin, having natural hair seems like a small issue now.

The hate wasnt about hes looks.. no it was about people finally noticing hes arrogant attitude that they for some reason never noticed, which is funny, because Nathanos is one of the most consistent characters in wow. Hes attitude didnt change a single bit vanilla-> bfa.

I am not sure if you can link hes appearance to the hate. Quite the opposite of you think about. Without that, the thread about him wouldnt excist. Hes change only increased the interest.

[Vaedan]

The hate wasnt about hes looks.. no it was about people finally noticing hes arrogant attitude that they for some reason never noticed, which is funny, because Nathanos is one of the most consistent characters in wow. Hes attitude didnt change a single bit vanilla-> bfa.

I am not sure if you can link hes appearance to the hate. Quite the opposite of you think about. Without that, the thread about him wouldnt excist. Hes change only increased the interest.

No, I didn't actually mean that hate for this character is based on his appearance. I believe his attitude worked well when you was not exposed to it for 90% of your time. I got that he was not impressed by us when we were mere adventurers doing dirty jobs, but as of BfA, we were champions of the Horde and his queen after all.

[Ielenia]

funny, and his come to the previous arguments of how Alleria isn't a void elf, but a high elf, so, why should void elves get her look? or this argument is dropped and people finally accept she is a void elf?

So much dishonesty and misrepresentation...

Alleria is a void elf now. Just like the player void elves are void elves now. The only difference is that Alleria arrived into "void-elf-ness" through a different and controlled and safer means. So, I'll repeat the question I posed to someone else, earlier:

The OG void elves' transformation was caused by a magical trap that intended to transform them into thralls of the void lords but got interrupted in the middle. Alleria's transformation was a controlled process.

Why do people act as if new void elves are being created by using the "interrupted trap" method that transformed the OG void elves, and not the safer method used by Locus Walker and Alleria?

Forsaken was always about a faction of undead, see how it is "forsaken" and not "undead humans" in the race screen, it was not just about humans at all, we saw several other undeads being forsaken, include elves

If void elves can look like high elves, despite being void elves and not high elves, AKA, another race, why the forsaken can't pick from the different races the forsaken are made?

But as forsaken players you are an undead human, because you're a lordaeronian who died when the Scourge first attacked Lordaeron, and Lordaeron is a human kingdom. And, like I said barely ten days ago in this very thread about san'layn customization for the forsaken players:

Because if one wants to add customization options to the forsaken character creation to make them into "dark ranger or san'layn", that requires a complete change of the player model since "dark rangers" and "san'layns" are ELVES, not humans.

yeah because just because the leader look one way you don't have to look like that.

True. However, Alleria is the exact same race as the people she commands, whereas Sylvanas is not the same race as the people she commands. Or commanded.

[Swnem]

I agree with you. I think the void elves should remain different from the blood elves for 2 reasons : first to not upset more Horde players, and second to add more iconic differences to this race, rather than simply make them the Alliance version of blood elves.

That's precisely why I'm not really asking for blond hairs but white/light blue and pale pink instead.

Give us also blue tattoos like Alleria and an option to set on/off tentacules and it'll be fine.

Honestly, even if they had the same customisation options void elves would still feel different. Entropic embrace procs all the time. It's impossible to not feel it's impact.
If anything, it's blood elves that need a more distinct look. The entitlement of blood elf players is the problem as they seem to prefer denying others than ask for unique features.

I am done trying to please them.

Void elves are not just the 2 dozen ones that got changed with Umbric in the ritual. Those were the first. But, in Telogrus rift or whatever it's called, you got other ex blood elves and high elves undergoing training to become rendorei.

Alleria proves that the training does not necessarely scar your body with void. If anything, umbric's group is the exception, not the rule cause their ritual went awry.

It's entropic embrace that makes them void elves.
Which is exactly what the blood elves don't have, a distinct feature. They started with one in tbc. The fel and their racial had that theme of stealing magic. But, since the Sunwell, they lost it and now are wishy washy between fel and light with the racial still being about stealing magic. Their identity is diluted. That is what needs fixing. Blizz needs to go deep on either the fel or light motif. Instead of trying to quell crying by adding high elf eyes, diluting it even more.

[Ielenia]

But I dont get why that is an issue for the point that was made. You keep telling me she is a differnt race, but it doesnt matter in that people always want to look like their leader. She is forsaken.. same as what you play.. a forsaken. The request by players to look.like her was and still is polular.

And Turalyon is a "soldier of the Army of the Light", just like all the lightforged draenei. Does that mean I am justified in asking that my lightforged draenei should be able to look like a human?

Your example of a dreanei to look like a human is somewhat extreme.. and sylvanas has been their leader for 15 years and the player was never able to look like her.
So in that case your argument is true that the player was never able to get that look.

In vanilla she used a night elf model.. the request came when she got her own unqiue model in wrath I believe.

So what? Time in power doesn't mean anything. Sylvanas being in power for 15 minutes or 15 years doesn't change the fact that Sylvanas is a different race than the player's forsaken character.

About sylvanas.. well you can get a whole discussion on that she is still forsaken and most of the scourge who broke free had alot of elves. So you can even ask the question why we never had the option to be an undead elf in that sense. I mean are they called undead humans? I see your point, but I dissagree.

Forsaken is not a race. It's a group. A 'nation'.

[Vaedan]

Forsaken is not a race. It's a group. A 'nation'.

Indeed. I wouldn't call Undead a race either. Undeath is a condition, not a race. They can't procreate naturally, they require magic to raise them. Forsaken are also not the only group which is made of free willed undead. As you said, it's more of ideological or political group.

[Syegfryed]

So much dishonesty and misrepresentation...

ah yes, cute.

Alleria is a void elf now. Just like the player void elves are void elves now. The only difference is that Alleria arrived into "void-elf-ness" through a different and controlled and safer means.

you can roll back to this very thread and see people saying alleria is not a void elf, even common faces here saying that same thing, now people have dropped that since its doesn't support their argument anymore, just wanted to pointed that hypocrisy here.

But as forsaken players you are an undead human, because you're a lordaeronian who died when the Scourge first attacked Lordaeron, and Lordaeron is a human kingdom.

and you as a void elf player, you are a void elf who undergo a ritual, you do not play as alleria, stop with the double standards

And, like I said barely ten days ago in this very thread about san'layn customization for the forsaken players:

completely pointless argument since the model already exist and are completely and fully capable of doing everything they can, people would nee to toggle and chose what they like more

True. However, Alleria is the exact same race as the people she commands, whereas Sylvanas is not the same race as the people she commands. Or commanded.

Sylvanas is a forsaken nevertheless, funny that you were the one nitpicking about race, and here you are

you still have nathanos and Calia who were forsaken, and human, not elf, and we do not have their model playable, Garrosh was brown, Current orc leader Agr,a is brown and green orcs don't have the brown skin, and so on

so again, its bullshit argument, not just because npc/leaders have something the player need/should have

[shoc]

If anything Alleria is MORE Void Elf than any of the rest. She has the power of a whole Void Naaru, normie Void Elves have kitchen scraps of Void power in comparison.

[Alanar]

And Turalyon is a "soldier of the Army of the Light", just like all the lightforged draenei. Does that mean I am justified in asking that my lightforged draenei should be able to look like a human?


So what? Time in power doesn't mean anything. Sylvanas being in power for 15 minutes or 15 years doesn't change the fact that Sylvanas is a different race than the player's forsaken character.

Weird wording.. Like players would need some kinda approval of what they can ask, why wouldnt you be justified to ask for a lightforged human or w/e?

Anyway Sylvanas has always been special on that front that she is a undead elf. But like I said earlier.. you can also ask yourself the question why we cant play a forsaken elf?
They are as much as humans part of that group that you play as a race( maybe you dont qualify that as a race, but blizz does here so that counts)

Same as calia and same as garrosh.. people cant look like those characters. Asking for options like that have been a thing since vanilla.. whats new.

Forsaken have elves in their rank since the beginning, so its only natural those request happen.

[Ielenia]

you can roll back to this very thread and see people saying alleria is not a void elf, even common faces here saying that same thing, now people have dropped that since its doesn't support their argument anymore, just wanted to pointed that hypocrisy here.

What hypocrisy? All I see is you trying to pass their opinions as my own. That's very dishonest of you. And a big misrepresentation of my position.

and you as a void elf player, you are a void elf who undergo a ritual, you do not play as alleria, stop with the double standards

It's not double-standards. We don't know the process that creates the PLAYER void elf character. Either way, we have two options:
• One, is that, for some insane reason (not to say inane) Umbric and Alleria have decided to use the same process that converted Umbric and his team into void elves, and then they found out a way to help purge some of the void energies in the void elves' bodies, allowing them to regain their natural skin tone.
• Two, is that, for good reason, Umbric and Alleria have decided to use the process that converted Alleria into a void elf. A much more controlled and safer process that allows void elves to retain their natural skin tone.

Whereas with Sylvanas and the forsaken player, we have two entities that were different races BEFORE their conversion. Sylvanas and the forsaken player character were an elf and a human while living, respectively.

It's not rocket science.

completely pointless argument since the model already exist and are completely and fully capable of doing everything they can, people would nee to toggle and chose what they like more

That's not the issue. The issue is that this completely changes the character's silhouette and model. It has nothing to do with "amount of work required" and more like messing with the visual identity of the player race. That's like saying we should give player customization to the human race to make them as short and as bulky as the dwarves. Or make orcs be able to be taller and much lankier like trolls.

Sylvanas is a forsaken nevertheless, funny that you were the one nitpicking about race, and here you are

Sylvanas being a forsaken or not is irrelevant because "forsaken" is not a race, it's a group. Just like Argent Dawn, the Ebon Blade and the Cenarion Circle.

you still have nathanos and Calia who were forsaken, and human, not elf, and we do not have their model playable, Garrosh was brown, Current orc leader Agr,a is brown and green orcs don't have the brown skin, and so on

Nathanos and Calia is highly unlikely to ever happen considering that those are human models, and orcs and humans are the Warcraft's faces. I doubt we'll see human models on the Horde just like I doubt we'll ever see orc models on the Alliance.

As for Aggra, I suppose you could ask for brown skin customization to orcs, but don't you have the Mag'har orcs with brown skin in the Horde already? Wouldn't that just make the two the exact same race even more than they already are?