1. #21701
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    personal insults should not be allowed I hope they are mod
    This is beyond personal insults already, I started to report.

  2. #21702
    Grunt Tinniel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    If you're that upset you should probably take a break. Trust me, I did in WoD and it took me 4 years to come back and come in terms with the fact that Blizzard's storytelling isn't as good as I'd like it to be.
    I am terrified how upset and angry. After such coughing in my face, as well as in the face of hundreds of other high elves who were waiting and asking - including those who remained faithful to the original idea of ​​high elves in this thread, I will express deep respect to them - I have nothing happy, but only hatred for Blizzard. And wild contempt for the "disguised" Judas and those who simply bent down, who first came running on the tumblr, Twitter and now this thread. They climb into someone else's thread - as a comrade above was, that for Alleria and Ren'dorei he drowns, but for the "high elves" he seems to be for and here he will overwrite the "correct" opinion. Normal people have started leaving Warcraft, and I also think I should leave. F*ck this Blizzard, not my money and respect for such a boorish and disgusting attitude.
    This is for the high elves, for violating their own lore, another hacky retcon and piggy responses from Steve Danuser, from the now fired Jennifer and also from Jon Hazzikostas. So to speak, "thanks" to them for the spoiled hopes and love for the once beloved fantasy of childhood. :'(

  3. #21703
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinniel View Post
    I am terrified how upset and angry. After such coughing in my face, as well as in the face of hundreds of other high elves who were waiting and asking - including those who remained faithful to the original idea of ​​high elves in this thread, I will express deep respect to them - I have nothing happy, but only hatred for Blizzard. And wild contempt for the "disguised" Judas and those who simply bent down, who first came running on the tumblr, Twitter and now this thread. They climb into someone else's thread - as a comrade above was, that for Alleria and Ren'dorei he drowns, but for the "high elves" he seems to be for and here he will overwrite the "correct" opinion. Normal people have started leaving Warcraft, and I also think I should leave. F*ck this Blizzard, not my money and respect for such a boorish and disgusting attitude.
    This is for the high elves, for violating their own lore, another hacky retcon and piggy responses from Steve Danuser, from the now fired Jennifer and also from Jon Hazzikostas. So to speak, "thanks" to them for the spoiled hopes and love for the once beloved fantasy of childhood. :'(
    Very clearly people aren't leaving WoW because of Void elves, since they are one of the most played Alliance races by far and easily the most successful allied race (along with Zandalari trolls for Horde).
    Some will tell you that the Light is the only path. The only weapon that can stop the enemies of Azeroth. But we see alternatives. Many roads, many possibilities, that are open to us. There will be those who doubt you. Who question your resolve, your ability to harness powers that have caused the downfall of weaker wills. Together, we will prove them wrong.

  4. #21704
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    The Ren'dorei are and have always been High elves, as they are Blood elves mutated by the Void, but the Blood elves are biologically High elves.

    I also theorized in the past that the Ren'dorei are actually closer to the Highvale/Silver Covenant elves than the Blood elves, because their eyes are blue, not green. Thus I believe that the Void cleansed them of their Fel mutation (i.e. green eyes), making them biologically much closer to Vereesa and co. than the Blood elves of the Horde.
    The Ren'dorei are former Blood Elves - Umbric and all of his people bear the Fel-tinted green eyes of Blood Elves prior to their transformation into Void Elves. The transformation into Void Elves wasn't a cleansing by any means, either; and the Void Elves are manifestly further from their High Elven roots than their Blood Elven peers are, given their near-complete transformation into Void beings. This not to say that High Elven exiles can't also become Void Elves (either now or at some future point), but it's not known if this can or has happened yet canonically.

    Magister Umbric prior to transformation:


    Click here for a larger image better showcasing his eye color.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  5. #21705
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    The Ren'dorei are former Blood Elves - Umbric and all of his people bear the Fel-tinted green eyes of Blood Elves prior to their transformation into Void Elves. The transformation into Void Elves wasn't a cleansing by any means, either; and the Void Elves are manifestly further from their High Elven roots than their Blood Elven peers are, given their near-complete transformation into Void beings. This not to say that High Elven exiles can't also become Void Elves (either now or at some future point), but it's not known if this can or has happened yet canonically.

    Magister Umbric prior to transformation:


    Click here for a larger image better showcasing his eye color.
    I'm talking after the transformation, their green eyes are changed to an azure color, and all traces of Fel magic are removed.
    Some will tell you that the Light is the only path. The only weapon that can stop the enemies of Azeroth. But we see alternatives. Many roads, many possibilities, that are open to us. There will be those who doubt you. Who question your resolve, your ability to harness powers that have caused the downfall of weaker wills. Together, we will prove them wrong.

  6. #21706
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I'm talking after the transformation, their green eyes are changed to an azure color, and all traces of Fel magic are removed.
    I don't really know about that, per se. It's hard telling if a second transformative process overwrites an existing one or more or less overlays it, so to speak. I tend to lean more toward the latter, and I doubt that the Void Elves have had all traces of Fel magic removed, although I'd say the distinction is rather meaningless in light of the changes done to them. The glow of their eyes is simply more reflective of their new natures, and has no real bearing on either their former status as High Elves nor their status as Blood Elves - similar to becoming a Death Knight. It's not the same glow as a High Elf, after all.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  7. #21707
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I don't really know about that, per se. It's hard telling if a second transformative process overwrites an existing one or more or less overlays it, so to speak. I tend to lean more toward the latter, and I doubt that the Void Elves have had all traces of Fel magic removed, although I'd say the distinction is rather meaningless in light of the changes done to them. The glow of their eyes is simply more reflective of their new natures, and has no real bearing on either their former status as High Elves nor their status as Blood Elves - similar to becoming a Death Knight. It's not the same glow as a High Elf, after all.
    Well, we are able to tell that the Sin'dorei are biologically altered by the Fel because their eyes turned green, but since the Void elves had their eyes restored to blue/azure, it can be inferred that the Fel corruption has been cleansed away. Or maybe it's still there at a molecular level, but we can't tell for certain because the green eyes have been reverted to azure.

    Plus didn't Blizzard mention how the rejuvenated Light Sunwell will cleanse the corruption of the Sin'dorei? If Light can do that, then I imagine Void can too. They are two sides of the same coin, after all.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-10-06 at 06:42 PM.
    Some will tell you that the Light is the only path. The only weapon that can stop the enemies of Azeroth. But we see alternatives. Many roads, many possibilities, that are open to us. There will be those who doubt you. Who question your resolve, your ability to harness powers that have caused the downfall of weaker wills. Together, we will prove them wrong.

  8. #21708
    Probably an unpopular opinion here but i kind of wish they did not add HElf customizations to VElfs?
    if VElfs are supposed to be their own thing, caving to HElf customizations seems to dilute their race identity. Sure you will still have people running around in 'traditional' VElf customization but there will be far more HElf looking characters running around instead.
    But i guess Blizzard could not just go "yeah we made a mistake adding VElfs when clearly every1 wanted HElfs" and remove VElfs altogether. i suppose It is a meet-in-the-middle kind of thing.

  9. #21709
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Well, we are able to tell that the Sin'dorei are biologically altered by the Fel because their eyes turned green, but since the Void elves had their eyes restored to blue/azure, it can be inferred that the Fel corruption has been cleansed away. Or maybe it's still there at a molecular level, but we can't tell for certain because the green eyes have been reverted to azure.

    Plus didn't Blizzard mention how the rejuvenated Light Sunwell will cleanse the corruption of the Sin'dorei? If Light can do that, then I imagine Void can too. They are two sides of the same coin, after all.
    I think I'd probably balk at the sense of the term "restoration" to describe the transformation into Void Elves. Both Fel and Void definitely altered them, that's pretty much incontrovertible, but I don't think the Void transformation necessarily undid the one that made them Blood Elves or in any way reverted them into being High Elves (prior to the changes made by the Fel). The restored Sunwell may well cleanse the Fel taint of the Blood Elves in time (or rather invoke changes of its own), but that's neither here nor there insofar as the Void Elves are concerned, as they no longer appear to be bound to the Sunwell due to their new natures.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  10. #21710
    Quote Originally Posted by HadesBlessYou View Post
    Probably an unpopular opinion here but i kind of wish they did not add HElf customizations to VElfs?
    if VElfs are supposed to be their own thing, caving to HElf customizations seems to dilute their race identity. Sure you will still have people running around in 'traditional' VElf customization but there will be far more HElf looking characters running around instead.
    But i guess Blizzard could not just go "yeah we made a mistake adding VElfs when clearly every1 wanted HElfs" and remove VElfs altogether. i suppose It is a meet-in-the-middle kind of thing.
    Ren'dorei are indeed meant to be their own unique race, however their leader Alleria Windrunner is a void elf who retains her fair-skin form, and that's part of their identity. Much like how Undead elves like Sylvanas are part of the Forsaken identity, and many Forsaken players constantly ask for Sylvanas-like customization options. The fair-skin options for Void elves should've been available since the start.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I think I'd probably balk at the sense of the term "restoration" to describe the transformation into Void Elves. Both Fel and Void definitely altered them, that's pretty much incontrovertible, but I don't think the Void transformation necessarily undid the one that made them Blood Elves or in any way reverted them into being High Elves (prior to the changes made by the Fel). The restored Sunwell may well cleanse the Fel taint of the Blood Elves in time (or rather invoke changes of its own), but that's neither here nor there insofar as the Void Elves are concerned, as they no longer appear to be bound to the Sunwell due to their new natures.
    The point is that the Void elves are now infused with the Void, which is the mirror of the Light. So if the Sunwell's Light energies can cleanse the Blood elves of their Fel corruption, then the Void corruption that was forced on the Ren'dorei should theoretically do the same thing, No? After all, Light and Void are shown to work in very similar ways and have similar properties.
    Some will tell you that the Light is the only path. The only weapon that can stop the enemies of Azeroth. But we see alternatives. Many roads, many possibilities, that are open to us. There will be those who doubt you. Who question your resolve, your ability to harness powers that have caused the downfall of weaker wills. Together, we will prove them wrong.

  11. #21711
    Quote Originally Posted by HadesBlessYou View Post
    Probably an unpopular opinion here but i kind of wish they did not add HElf customizations to VElfs?
    if VElfs are supposed to be their own thing, caving to HElf customizations seems to dilute their race identity. Sure you will still have people running around in 'traditional' VElf customization but there will be far more HElf looking characters running around instead.
    But i guess Blizzard could not just go "yeah we made a mistake adding VElfs when clearly every1 wanted HElfs" and remove VElfs altogether. i suppose It is a meet-in-the-middle kind of thing.
    Basically, Blizzard seems to be moving away from allied races that are just spin-offs of existing races and instead adding customization options to the base races so players can make their spin-offs. But since the only playable "base race" Thalassian on Alliance are Void Elves, their "spin-off" is High Elf customization. It's no different than Dwarves getting Wildhammer options (also a popular allied request), Trolls getting Sandfury (and other troll tribe) customization options, etc. Yes, it ends up being a bit weird in the case of Void Elves, but it was the only path open to Blizzard without making an entirely separate High Elf allied race for Alliance and adding a third reuse of the Thalassian model (and having to come up with another allied race for Horde to match).

    Not for nothing though, adding these customization options to Void Elves offers the Alliance High Elves the opportunity to move forward in the lore. From vanilla till now, the Alliance High Elves (the people as a whole, not specific organizations like the Silver Covenant) have basically just been in stasis, doing nothing really to progress beyond where they were after splitting from their kin in Silvermoon. Through the Ren'dorei, the High Elves that join Alleria can lead the charge going forward and start building a new future.

  12. #21712
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    The point is that the Void elves are now infused with the Void, which is the mirror of the Light. So if the Sunwell's Light energies can cleanse the Blood elves of their Fel corruption, then the Void corruption that was forced on the Ren'dorei should theoretically do the same thing, No? After all, Light and Void are shown to work in very similar ways and have similar properties.
    The Light and Void are cosmological opposites and work in the opposite way from one another. The Light is the energy of unity and cohesion to the point of being a veritable monolith, whereas the Void is the essence of division and separation as represented by its thousand paradoxically simultaneous truths. The Light heals by reuniting what is sundered, whereas the Void harms by enforcing divisions and tearing things asunder at the fundamental level. So no, I really don't think these two essences would behave in similar fashions or produce the same results.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  13. #21713
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    The point is that the Void elves are now infused with the Void, which is the mirror of the Light. So if the Sunwell's Light energies can cleanse the Blood elves of their Fel corruption, then the Void corruption that was forced on the Ren'dorei should theoretically do the same thing, No? After all, Light and Void are shown to work in very similar ways and have similar properties.
    Any major use of one energy would override the fel taint with elves, since it was not a corruption and more a side effect of being nearby fel magic, void, arcane or light would do that just fine, what we have today is a reflect of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    Not for nothing though, adding these customization options to Void Elves offers the Alliance High Elves the opportunity to move forward in the lore. From vanilla till now, the Alliance High Elves (the people as a whole, not specific organizations like the Silver Covenant) have basically just been in stasis, doing nothing really to progress beyond where they were after splitting from their kin in Silvermoon. Through the Ren'dorei, the High Elves that join Alleria can lead the charge going forward and start building a new future.
    the "alliance high elves" will not charge going forward building a new future, the ones who will are void elves, the "alliance high elves" who are not void elves(like silver covenant) will stay in the same limbo they were before, because there was lots of reasons of why they story didn't progress, unless they turn into voi elves

    I know things are all all wild these days with people making up stuff and adapting others, but the void elves are still void elves(not high elves shadow priests), regardless if they look like a high elf, they are not the same race, and seems like a lot of people completely forget/ignore that, thinking HE is a state of spirit/faction allegiance/appearance when for years they fought against some of those concepts

  14. #21714
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I really don't think these two essences would behave in similar fashions or produce the same results.
    They might not behave in similar fashions but they do seem to produce similar results, at least in some cases.

    Consider this. The Light in the Sunwell is cleansing the Fel taint from the Blood Elves thus their eyes returning to blue (or gold in the case of those strongly tied to the Light - Holy priests/Paladins?)

    In the case of Void Elves, Silvermoon Scholars that join the Ren'dorei are having their Fel taint consumed by the Void energy thus their eyes returning to blue (or perhaps the new purple for those who become strongly tied to the Void - Shadow priests perhaps?)

    They may function differently but they have a similar end result. In both cases the Fel taint is removed. Obviously player choice trumps canon lore as we can have Blood Elf Warlocks with golden eyes, but you get the gist of what I'm saying right?

    The Light can heal wounds. The Void can also heal wounds. They may not do it in the same manner, but they do have a similar end result (wounds are healed).

    - - - Updated - - -
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    the "alliance high elves" will not charge going forward building a new future, the ones who will are void elves, the "alliance high elves" who are not void elves(like silver covenant) will stay in the same limbo they were before, because there was lots of reasons of why they story didn't progress, unless they turn into voi elves

    I know things are all all wild these days with people making up stuff and adapting others, but the void elves are still void elves(not high elves shadow priests), regardless if they look like a high elf, they are not the same race, and seems like a lot of people completely forget/ignore that, thinking HE is a state of spirit/faction allegiance/appearance when for years they fought against some of those concepts
    Well the game director says Void Elves are High Elves so I'm inclined to take his word over yours.

  15. #21715
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    They might not behave in similar fashions but they do seem to produce similar results, at least in some cases.

    Consider this. The Light in the Sunwell is cleansing the Fel taint from the Blood Elves thus their eyes returning to blue (or gold in the case of those strongly tied to the Light - Holy priests/Paladins?)

    In the case of Void Elves, Silvermoon Scholars that join the Ren'dorei are having their Fel taint consumed by the Void energy thus their eyes returning to blue (or perhaps the new purple for those who become strongly tied to the Void - Shadow priests perhaps?)

    They may function differently but they have a similar end result. In both cases the Fel taint is removed. Obviously player choice trumps canon lore as we can have Blood Elf Warlocks with golden eyes, but you get the gist of what I'm saying right?

    The Light can heal wounds. The Void can also heal wounds. They may not do it in the same manner, but they do have a similar end result (wounds are healed).

    - - - Updated - - -


    Well the game director says Void Elves are High Elves so I'm inclined to take his word over yours.
    there are elves with green eyes in telogrus
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Silvermoon_Scholar

  16. #21716
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Listen, this is starting to get weird. You quoted me remember?

    I made my point about why blood elves look like high elves and what tbe point is in rping as one. That is the conversation. My point still stands and that is that blood elves look like proper high elves and void elves not so much.

    Ps; I edited my comment, because I though It was to short and felt bit heated, which wasnt the case. Reread it if you want, but the conversation was about the rp element which is the whole point of high elves today.
    Sure, let's go with that.

    High elves are dead in terms of where so they belong.. I thought that was clear by now. Both factions got the eye color and in wow high elves are blood elves with blue eyes and fair skin. So saying there is no true high elf look is false. There isnt much else to it I am afraid.
    But like, again, this isn't like some obscure knowledge or difficult to understand posture; regardless of playability, the alliance has groups of high elves, and it has since vanilla.

    So that you say that aesthetically you can be closer to a HE on the horde might be a very surface take but its fine, and then go on saying that "high elves are dead in terms of where they belong" when a large part of them has been alliance since vanilla is pretty odd.

    As moot your aesthetic point is -and never having said that there's no true high elf look so you kinda are confounding the issue- the fact that you still try to deny that lorewise High Elves are part of the alliance -as well as a neutral group- seems pretty pointed.

    Like let's be honest, that BE and VE both get customizations that make them look like a high elf, so far hasn't affected the lore at all, where again, High Elves -through the SC, Highvale and other groups- are alliance.

    But again, already pointed out that wasn't the level of nuance you weren't going for; the point was to call attention at how surface level your comment was.

  17. #21717
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    They might not behave in similar fashions but they do seem to produce similar results, at least in some cases.

    Consider this. The Light in the Sunwell is cleansing the Fel taint from the Blood Elves thus their eyes returning to blue (or gold in the case of those strongly tied to the Light - Holy priests/Paladins?)

    In the case of Void Elves, Silvermoon Scholars that join the Ren'dorei are having their Fel taint consumed by the Void energy thus their eyes returning to blue (or perhaps the new purple for those who become strongly tied to the Void - Shadow priests perhaps?)

    They may function differently but they have a similar end result. In both cases the Fel taint is removed. Obviously player choice trumps canon lore as we can have Blood Elf Warlocks with golden eyes, but you get the gist of what I'm saying right?

    The Light can heal wounds. The Void can also heal wounds. They may not do it in the same manner, but they do have a similar end result (wounds are healed).

    Well the game director says Void Elves are High Elves so I'm inclined to take his word over yours.
    My argument is that neither this "cleaning" or "consuming" is really tantamount to either term - the Sunwell is overlaying the Fel energies with those of the Arcane and/or Light, which is still a different mix than the High Elves prior to the Third War were subject to, whereas the Void is overlaying them with Void energies which are an entirely different thing. The end-result itself isn't even really the same, as the eye glow of the Void Elves isn't the same as that of the High Elves - the color might be similar, but so is the color of the eyes of Death Knights (and they have nothing to do with either energy source).

    This doesn't really intersect at all with the previous debate of Void Elves or Blood Elves being High Elves, as it were; as both groups can lay claim to the title from a lore sense. Functionally, however, neither Blood Elves nor Void Elves are the same thing as the High Elven exiles - not from a gameplay standpoint, and not even a from a lore one as they belong to different cultures now. The Void Elves are an emergent culture due to their radical alteration, whereas the Blood Elves' culture has diverged greatly from its previous roots. Void Elves and Blood Elves are High Elves, yes; but there's still a significant division between the various variants of High Elves that now exist (e.g. Blood, Void, and exile).
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  18. #21718
    Pit Lord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    bottom line is, new generation of Void Elves don't have to go through whatever that Void Lord's cosmetics and tanning services did to Umbric and the first generation - and I doubt they'll be stupid enough to risk their lives to go throught the process that was only saved by Alleria on a 1% close shave
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged custom models that intends to fill the gaps in the Reforged campaign

  19. #21719
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Assuming Blizzard cares. With the whole "we giving you these options because we want players to be whoever they want to be" is there much point anymore? Wouldn't be surprised if they just randomize npc placements and sooner or later you'll see Blood Elf npc's in a BE camp with blue eyes.
    That's not an issue; like, the whole point I am trying to make here is that a blue eyed blood elf is still a blood elf, it doesn't magically get renamed a High Elf, because Blood elf and High Elf are sociopolitical identities, they are inexorably linked to a wider context beyond aesthetic, which includes ideology, culture environment and politics. That would only change when Blizzard introduces in lore a group of blue eyed elves that calles themselves high elves, but are aligned with the Horde and Silvermoon.

    The aesthetics helps us get closer to a High Elf fantasy that was already there -Silver Covenant, 7th Legion, Highvale, etc- but the lore itself has not changed with this.

  20. #21720
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Yes, I'm aware of your stance on the matter, I guess most of posters who watch this topic are. I agree, it's nothing strange on wanting options to look like your racial leader and I personally wanted at least one pink skin for void elves from the beginning too. Though I was one of the pro-helfers, I actually accepted void elves quickly and I grew fond of them. Now it's clear win for most of us, since void elf fans have chance to look like their leader and pro-helfers have the closest option to high elves on the Alliance. Just few more details.

    Good thing is that the crusade is finaly over and anti-helfers realized their fight is lost.
    I see this as the only reasonable compromise, because the devs probably would not add another Elven race in the near future, if any. You get your High Elf looks, but the race is still dubbed Void Elf. It ultimately shows that High Elf fans are only there for the looks. *shrugs*
    My Void Elves will be proudly showing their new colours. The future belongs to them.

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