Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

So is Khadgar, so is Magni, so is Wrathion, the list goes on...

What? It's hardly relevant to the point, don't you realize? All those other characters are relevant because plot related reasons; the point is that Vereesa is just a regular leader of a faction, not a major lore figure. So to ask for what's essentially a secondary character to be dazzling seems like a tall order, not even Ji and Aysa, actual playable race representatives, get as much time spent on them

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Danuser spoke about the female high elf purple eyes:

Having purple-eyed female high elves everywhere was indeed a bug. And in the process of tracking that down, we decided that it would be a nice bonus to throw in the purple eyes for players.

So the NPCs' loss is your gain!

https://twitter.com/SteveDanuser/sta...969605632?s=20

I knew it! VINDICATION

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I like these eyes, but I have to say the way the whole blood elf/void elf customization thing has been handled has been very confusing.

This makes me realize how Void Elves as Void Elves themselves are getting the short end of the stick, despite them getting options when other Allied Races aren't. I really do like the idea of the partway Void skin color, and as I think I might have mentioned before, I'd actually love to see that built into the way the skin color works for them in general. Make it where Void Elves choose a natural skin tone and a Void one, and then have a drop-down for how much the Void color covers them. Those N'Zoth eyes are really neat, too, and it makes me realize that it's sort of weird how few actual "Voidy" options they have.

Okay but that's literally the point; No Allied Races are getting any major fantasy updates, all VE's are getting are is reused BE assets. So let's hope that when AR get updated, we actually see more Void Elf stuff for Void Elves.

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I always feel like if you take the 3 sisters and theme a Ranger class off of them, you could do quite well. Shadow/Necromancy, Arcane and Void are all perfect for a magic-based Ranger class. That would give the characters a bigger role to play if they had a class of their own to be associated with.

But that would only work if they somehow redeem Sylvanas, and I'd rather them not do that.

Yeah; tbh while it would be nice that Vereesa used more arcane as her thing, the problem at the core she just didn't get enough development as a character, and with Sylvanas soon to be done -maybe- becomes kinda moot?

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except you can still do that, blood elf dark color is not near close to void elf color

they can share this - not so dark - hair color, but then you ad more darker and different colors for void elves, that look voidish, neat, they now have different and exclusive hair colos to enforce their racial and thematic identiy.



that is the difference you want? i can barelly see a difference here



when their fantasies overlap and rob other races of their own fantasy is where we draw the line, pettiness is wanting verything other race have because spite, you don't rly need blonde hair to be a high elf, im seeing the argument fall apart over the years, before it as lore, then skin color, now hair color, what is next?

lat down the road you are going to ask to change their racials, the screen name, paladin class and you are going to say we are being petty to not want that, a line need to be drawned somewhere.

Well all I see is hypocrisy then, you say you don't see difference between those two dark hair colors, so then the whole idea of dichotomous aesthetics is already out of the window, and you just don't want VE's to have light hair at all because you are so petty it believes it "robs" BE's of their identity, as if their identity was was solely safeguarded by the color of their hair.

What a useless discussion.

[Frenchvince]

Danuser spoke about the female high elf purple eyes:

Having purple-eyed female high elves everywhere was indeed a bug. And in the process of tracking that down, we decided that it would be a nice bonus to throw in the purple eyes for players.

So the NPCs' loss is your gain!

https://twitter.com/SteveDanuser/sta...969605632?s=20

It's really cool for VE and BE.

I know of another bug that a lot of people would also like to have as a customization option, the black hair color of some Void Elf NPCs.

[Jokubas]

Okay but that's literally the point; No Allied Races are getting any major fantasy updates, all VE's are getting are is reused BE assets. So let's hope that when AR get updated, we actually see more Void Elf stuff for Void Elves.

I just mean that in the quest for high elf options, I often see the conversation turn toward whether the void elves are getting too many things. It just doesn't seem fair to the void elves to judge them for having too many options when none of those options are void elf options. To put it another way, I wouldn't want to see void elves skipped when the Allied Race pass comes because of the perspective that they've already received too many options.

That's also part of why I said this whole thing is confusing at this point, because it just feels messy. It's vindicating the fear that the Alliance is stealing options from blood elves, but the official explanation for these options has never mentioned high elves, so what's actually going on? Not to sound ungrateful, as many have shown the great high elf looks you can make now, but for the sake of blood elves, high elves, and void elves, I think they need to do something definitive and rip off that bandage. Because in the meantime, blood elf players are feeling like they're getting stolen from (which is especially unfortunate as the original premise of this very thread was to come up with ways to not steal things), high elf fans are still being saddled with void elf lore and limited options, and void elf players are getting criticized for getting special attention when that attention doesn't benefit them.

[Kyriani]

The new eye color looks amazing on the VE skin tones as well. Like I'm shook the old female HE eye texture would look so good with a bit of glow thrown in.

It really does look great! I can't wait till this goes live! All I'll need now is black hair and my character will look exactly the way I want her to!

[Ielenia]

thts just you assuming you don't have more arguments? talking about people writing wrong? like you himself also write shit wrong all the time? i am dyslexic boy, sometimes i do that yes, i fail to see how this make your arguments less nonsensical

what a lot of horseshit you are nittpicking, you don't have much to stand on and you are going for this, this is like the low bar of discussions, guess we are luck that you didn't use the Godwin's law

You opened the door when you decided to act as if you're an english teacher, when in fact you're just avoiding having to answer the question that catches you in the act.

i call out you about the red hearing fallacy, that you constantly use in your arguments, and your are pedantic saying im the one using, showing you are just a hypocrite

You don't see red herrings in my posts. You see an argument you cannot refute so you dismiss it by claiming it as a fallacy. There's a difference.

"alternate possibilities" no, you are bringing up irrelevant shit trying to disprove something, is the appeal to ignorance, you keep making unbelieble and nonsensical claims that are simple bullshit and waiting people to refut your nonsense, again, tis a low bar on the internet discussion.

This is a prime example. You cannot refute my arguments so you dismiss them as "unbelievable and nonsensical".

Also, let's put in on record that you just called "unbelievable and nonsensical" my hypothesis that the void elves that are newly transformed are going through a safer method than what the OG void elves went through, a process that is highly likely to be similar to Alleria's, considering Locus Walker is in the Telogrus Rift.

because you ar doing that

So I'm making shit up when I say that naaru falling into the void are rare, especially those that fall naturally? Again, is that what you're calling me "making shit up"?

Agin, bullshit, because they alrea\dy messed up with the visual identiy of a playable race( blood elves) giving to void elves

your double tandarts of this being off-limits because "playable races have silhoutes" is fucking laughable.

What you call "double standards" I call you not understanding my argument, either accidentally or willfully. Again, what I'm talking about has nothing to do with two or more races sharing a silhouette, but the race's own visual identity being muddled.

you re so above your own head you cannot see how "more than one silhouette make.no,fucking.difference

Because you say so?

and what you do with diffeent races having the same silhoute in different factions? yes you put your rgumment in the trash.

Different races having similar silhouettes in nothing affects my argument, since, once again, I'm not talking about different playable races sharing similar silhouettes. Get this through your head.

you can't undergo the same process if you don't do the same shit, is not hard to grasp

Then show me the new void elves did not not "do the same shit" as Alleria. Oh, wait. You can't. Because the process has not been revealed.

You said they are the same race, you make the claim, and didn't prove shit, while we have the game saying they are a different race of elves, its you with your own illusion.

Ah, so it's bait-and-switch now? Because your original statement was that "it's a fact that the void elves are not consuming dark naaru", but now you are trying to shift this to a "you said they are the same race". Which I never did, by the way. I said that we don't have confirmation that the void elves are an actual separate race from the blood elves. You seem to have a problem figuring the difference between "offering a possibility" and "stating a fact".

Again, brining up irrelevant shit, "we do not know that alleria coul notsprout an void tentcle of her ass, so you can't say she can't"

One, it's not irrelevant, because it's very well possible she could take on void form before that; and two, "reductio ad absurdum" does not make you any favors, here.

using void powers is completely out of the point here, she could use void powers fine and not be a void elf, only when she absord the naaru she got her racial to change, not before, that is a fact.

A fact? Then show me the official, canon sources that say, in no uncertain terms, that: a) Alleria was not a void elf before she absorbed the dark naaru; and b) Alleria could not take on a void form before she absorbed the dark naaru. Oh, wait. You can't. Because there is none. This is, once again, you literally, undeniably stating your own headcanon as fact.

They are a new race

unti something says otherwise they are a new race

Again: show me the official, canon source that states, in no uncertain terms, that the void elves are an actual new race, and not just simply "transformed blood/high elves". We can't say they are a new race unless stated otherwise because we have precedent for my hypothesis: the children of two worgen is a non-worgen human, meaning the worgen are not a new race, despite being a playable race of their own.

you said they are the same race,

Nope. I absolutely never, ever did that. All I've ever said is that we don't have any confirmation either way. You're misrepresenting my arguments in a failed attempt to shift the burden of proof onto my shoulders. Again: the only one making statements of fact here, and therefore the one that actually has to prove evidence, is you.

why they would even need a settlement? they live with other orcs, in their settlements, but Nagrand alone is more than any high elf hut that you call "settlment"

How do you know? Did you count them?

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1: Worgen do not have fixed silhouettes. They can actively take up a form of another playable race; Human.

Outside the world while questing or PvP'ing or raiding (which is what matters) you're in worgen form, regardless if you want it or not.

2: Some races have customizable options that change their animations or silhouette. Unbent Orcs, Forsaken without bone protrusions, Pandaren with and without tails.

But the general silhouette of the character remains the same. An orc is still an orc, bent or unbent. A forsaken still looks like a forsaken, bone protrusions or not.

3: Genders are already examples of multiple silhouettes within a race. We don't even consider Male Draenei and Female Draenei as anything other than Draenei.

Gender is irrelevant. All female draenei have the same basic silhouette. So do all male tauren. Gender dimorphism is not a strong argument to make.

4: Multiple (allied) races share the same silhouette, meaning distinct or unique silhouettes are not necessary to distinguish any given race. Confusing a Forsaken Elf for a Blood Elf has no more impact than confusing a Mag'har for an Orc, a Worgen for a Human etc. Visual identity is a non-issue when these lines are blurred between multiple, separate playable races.

I will repeat what I have said multiple times: this is about a race's own visual identity. This has nothing to do about two races sharing the same silhouette.

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Sylvanas was a high elf in life and banshee as undead who claimed her body and eventually forming and calling themselves only as Forsaken. Forsaken is a race you play

Forsaken is the name of the group you play. The "race" you play is "zombified human".

Forsaken is not a race. Undeath is not a race.

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Er, Rexxars campaign had you fighting against the Kul Tiran Navy. People from Kul Tiras. Alongside the Lordaeron troops that looked no different from them.

You said, and I quote, "We have seen the full nation of Kul Tiras in Warcraft 3." You didn't say "the entirety of Kul'Tiras navy" or even "part of Kul'Tiras navy". You said "the full nation of Kul'Tiras".

And just part of the navy (which is what we see in Warcraft 3) is not a representative of the full nation of Kul'Tiras.

[Jokubas]

I really like the eyes. I think they look better with distinct sclera and would love to get more like this.

[Traycor]

I'm excited to see when they do the Allied Race cosmetic updates! Looking forward to more high elf hair colors so we can get a more true high elf experience.

[Triceron]

Outside the world while questing or PvP'ing or raiding (which is what matters) you're in worgen form, regardless if you want it or not.

If the context of your argument is 'Races have a fixed visual identity' then you're not addressing this at all. You're just saying it doesn't matter to you that this goes against your argument when doing certain types of content. For someone who is adamant on using facts over opinion, you seem to be okay with using your opinion to address the facts.

If you make a claim that Ducks can't fly, and someone points out Ducks do fly, then you aren't countering the argument by saying 'Well only sometimes, but I don't regard that as real flying. They don't fly most of the time'. You're just backpedalling and defending a complete fallacy. You need to address the claim you made, and you definitely aren't doing so here.

But the general silhouette of the character remains the same. An orc is still an orc, bent or unbent. A forsaken still looks like a forsaken, bone protrusions or not.

You can't say the general silhouette is the same when unbent Orc literally changes the entire silhouette. You do understand what silhouette means right? It is not 'basic shape', it is not textures, it is the *outline*. The general silhouette does *not* remain the same. Thrall does *not* have the same general silhouette of a hunched-over Orc.

And the general silhouette of the Worgen does not stay the same at all considering they can shift forms. There are no facts behind your argument, your beef with the visual identity being broken is completely subjective.

If Human can include a diverse range that includes Worgen and giant Kul Tiran, then there's no reason why you should be arguing against a Forsaken Elf allied race. 'Forsaken' does not apply to any singular race and does not adhere to any singular 'visual identity'. The terminology we use is simply a catchall for a Human(based) Undead variation, yet at no point is it exclusive to Humans.

No matter how we look at this, Unbent Orcs and Worgen are exapmples of Blizzard providing racial options that break visual identity. This is a FACT.

Gender is irrelevant. All female draenei have the same basic silhouette. So do all male tauren. Gender dimorphism is not a strong argument to make.

But it does work against the notion that any given race has any singular visual identity. If we accept both the male and female Forsaken as two different visual identities for the Forsaken, then there is plausible reason to expand that to more. This is the very reason why Worgen are not deemed problematic or visually confusing, considering it is *within their identity* to take on Human form.

I will repeat what I have said multiple times: this is about a race's own visual identity. This has nothing to do about two races sharing the same silhouette.

Repeat it as much as you want.

This statement is absolutely irrelevant to the context of races having distinct visual identities. The fact of the matter is they no longer do considering some races can change that identity, some races share their general silhouettes with other races (including of the other faction) and the fact that visual identity is not something Blizzard adheres to themselves in the context of how Allied Races have been presented.

You said, and I quote, "We have seen the full nation of Kul Tiras in Warcraft 3." You didn't say "the entirety of Kul'Tiras navy" or even "part of Kul'Tiras navy". You said "the full nation of Kul'Tiras".

And just part of the navy (which is what we see in Warcraft 3) is not a representative of the full nation of Kul'Tiras.

Ehh, now you're arguing semantics. For someone who is dedicated to facts and lore, you sure are keen at dodging the facts that matter in order to argue the difference between 'Kul Tiran Nation' and 'Kul Tiran Navy'.

Fact - Kul Tirans were represented by standard Humans in all media prior to BFA. BFA CHANGES that identity by associating and representing them with larger humans in playable form. What we considered as Human-only Kul Tiran prior to BFA is now open to accepting Large and Skinny variations. Which means any concept of a Lordaeron Human-based Forsaken can also be effectively CHANGED to include Forsaken Elf and/or Calia-style 'Lightbound' Forsaken.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

It really does look great! I can't wait till this goes live! All I'll need now is black hair and my character will look exactly the way I want her to!

You know, while I deeply want white hair, the lack of black hair really feels like negligence, specially when NPCs get to use it. It's really so freaking weird VE's got shafted of both white or black as hair color, which is something EVERY race should have.

(And I'm gonna be honest, I'm happy about blue eyes on VE because of what they mean lorewise, but these new ones are actually the pretties eye color they have added lol. Will fit my arcane mage perfectly, also my sub rogue VE heheh)

[Jokubas]

The blue eye thing surprised me because in many cases, high elves just had natural, human-like eyes, with a human-like range in colors. I thought that's what could make high elves different. I think that's part of why I like the new eyes, too, because it's closer to that. Then again, a mass proliferation of glowing eyes is something the game has faced as a whole, which unfortunately makes it less cool as an option.

As for hair colors, yeah I'm kind of baffled void elves haven't always had white and black hair colors. Black obviously fits with the inky darkness of the void, and white is something we often associate in fiction with supernatural trauma, both of which fit well with the void elves.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I just mean that in the quest for high elf options, I often see the conversation turn toward whether the void elves are getting too many things. It just doesn't seem fair to the void elves to judge them for having too many options when none of those options are void elf options. To put it another way, I wouldn't want to see void elves skipped when the Allied Race pass comes because of the perspective that they've already received too many options.

That's also part of why I said this whole thing is confusing at this point, because it just feels messy. It's vindicating the fear that the Alliance is stealing options from blood elves, but the official explanation for these options has never mentioned high elves, so what's actually going on? Not to sound ungrateful, as many have shown the great high elf looks you can make now, but for the sake of blood elves, high elves, and void elves, I think they need to do something definitive and rip off that bandage. Because in the meantime, blood elf players are feeling like they're getting stolen from (which is especially unfortunate as the original premise of this very thread was to come up with ways to not steal things), high elf fans are still being saddled with void elf lore and limited options, and void elf players are getting criticized for getting special attention when that attention doesn't benefit them.

But see that's other people trying to steer the conversation away and pit VE and HE fans against each other. Like I don't think we can expect HE's as their own thing anymore, so every Thalassian fan kinda has to make do with the options we have; which seem to be the unplayable HE aesthetic is getting split between BE and VE.

And BE got unique things on the update -I will admit the lazied about with the males- so it stands to reason VE's wil get VE things when it's their turn, but it's obvious that RN AR are not the focus, and all we are seeing is the reuse of assets , which is not the same than VE's getting more stuff than other races, or VE's getting updated to be less VE. Cause again, no AR has gotten a revamp beyond inheriting stuff from their core race or new eye colors.

I think HE fans should start to accept this is going to be pretty much it for us, AT MOST we are going to see a reflection on the lore with the High Elves working or uniting with the Void Elves, because VE's are gonna get their update, and things may very well get very voidy and we don't get anything else to serve that VE aesthetic, so more hair colors is the most we can expect now -and maybe tattoos, but only as a VE aesthetic that we can use for HE's-

It really feels that a lot of BE stallwarts believed that blue eyes "belonged" to them so they don't seem to hold the real weight of being given that option that just a while ago was denied. And it really comes across as only being worth it if it's "exclusive" which feels kinda petty to me. So instead of BE's getting historically HE eye colors and VE's getting BE skin tones been seen as a swap that benefits both, there's a lot of of rethoric of BE's just loosing stuff because in their eyes, blue eyes already belonged to them -because everything thalassian belongs to them-

And honestly that's just a crappy attitude, why not be happy we ALL have more options? The new eye color is literally made of the old High Elf female eye color, that's something that literally "belonged" to high elves. We should all be happy that there are more options to fit our fantasy, yet I still keep seeing people digging their heels every step of the way because the thought of sharing anything is poison, even if now is just a simiular shade of hair. It's so tiring to deal with that sort of selfishness, of being denied something you'd like not because of scarcity, but because you wanna feel "unique".

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The blue eye thing surprised me because in many cases, high elves just had natural, human-like eyes, with a human-like range in colors. I thought that's what could make high elves different. I think that's part of why I like the new eyes, too, because it's closer to that. Then again, a mass proliferation of glowing eyes in something the game has faced as a whole, which unfortunately makes it less cool as an option.

As for hair colors, yeah I'm kind of baffled void elves haven't always had white and black hair colors. Black obviously fits with the inky darkness of the void, and white is something we often associate in fiction with supernatural trauma, both of which fit well with the void elves.

A lot has to do with how things are represented, and for a while Blizz decided the easiest way to represent HE's was glowing blue eyes -when they used to have just human like eyes- these new eyes are indeed pretty neat, by being based of the female NPC HE eyes, they have white sclera, unlike all the other elven eyes that are all colored, so do offer some welcomed variety.

Also the first VE we saw in full void mode had white hair, it really feels like a bruh moment VE's didn't get that shade, for real.



Like it literally implies that void energies turn light blonde hair white/pinkish, but then they -for just differentiation's sake- segregate VE and BE aesthetics. I'm glad that rn that doesn't seem to be a concern, so I hope they don't enforce it in something as trivial as hair color of all things.

[Luck4]

Wow, this is amazing, it's also funny how it suits perfectly the OG Void Elf skin tones, way better than the whitish spooky eyes they were delivered with.

[Kyriani]

You know, while I deeply want white hair, the lack of black hair really feels like negligence, specially when NPCs get to use it. It's really so freaking weird VE's got shafted of both white or black as hair color, which is something EVERY race should have.

(And I'm gonna be honest, I'm happy about blue eyes on VE because of what they mean lorewise, but these new ones are actually the pretties eye color they have added lol. Will fit my arcane mage perfectly, also my sub rogue VE heheh)

I plan to use the new arcane eyes for my own arcane mage as well (see my avatar)! My sub rogue though, I changed his eyes to match his current transmog. And since I plan for him to go Necrolords, it looks thematically appropriate for their aesthetics!

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I plan to use the new arcane eyes for my own arcane mage as well (see my avatar)! My sub rogue though, I changed his eyes to match his current transmog. And since I plan for him to go Necrolords, it looks thematically appropriate for their aesthetics!

Oh wow they almost appear greenish with the rest of the glow effects! noice!

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Wow, this is amazing, it's also funny how it suits perfectly the OG Void Elf skin tones, way better than the whitish spooky eyes they were delivered with.

It's really crazy how good they fit, and that's what I LOVE of all the freedom new customization give us. A BE with these eyes? Has that arcane mage vibe, but on a VE, they read completely different. Awesome.

[Jokubas]

I totally get what you mean, MyWholeLifeIsThunder, and I think I might bow out again for now since I'm not really sure what else to add.

[Ielenia]

If the context of your argument is 'Races have a fixed visual identity' then you're not addressing this at all. You're just saying it doesn't matter to you that this goes against your argument when doing certain types of content. For someone who is adamant on using facts over opinion, you seem to be okay with using your opinion to address the facts.

If you make a claim that Ducks can't fly, and someone points out Ducks do fly, then you aren't countering the argument by saying 'Well only sometimes, but I don't regard that as real flying. They don't fly most of the time'. You're just backpedalling and defending a complete fallacy. You need to address the claim you made, and you definitely aren't doing so here.

But that's the thing: worgen will always look like worgen when they're engaging with the content that requires them to fight something. Or when they're engaging in their all-fours "mount" run. That's why when a Horde meets a worgen, 9/10 they'll see a wolf-man. Or wolf-woman.

You can't say the general silhouette is the same when unbent Orc literally changes the entire silhouette.

No. It doesn't. An upright orc still looks like an orc. And again, there is leagues of differences between making a character walk upright, and making a hunched, zombified human become an upright blood elf.

If Human can include a diverse range that includes Worgen and giant Kul Tiran, then there's no reason why you should be arguing against a Forsaken Elf allied race.

And I never did. I never, ever did that. The only thing I'm arguing against is this idea that forsaken player characters should be able to choose if they want to look like a zombified, hunched human or a pale-skinned upright blood elf.

'Forsaken' does not apply to any singular race and does not adhere to any singular 'visual identity'. The terminology we use is simply a catchall for a Human(based) Undead variation, yet at no point is it exclusive to Humans.

The forsaken player is, considering the playable race is comprised of humans who died in Lordaeron.

No matter how we look at this, Unbent Orcs and Worgen are exapmples of Blizzard providing racial options that break visual identity. This is a FACT.

So you're okay with the idea that Blizzard could one day implement human customization that makes them look exactly like a draenei? Or a tauren look like a goblin? Or a gnome look like a void elf? And again: unbent orcs are still orcs, and worgen cannot be anything but worgen during combat.

And both Worgens have the ability to break that silhouette. Your argument is 'Well only in some content' which doesn't actually address the issue here of having a race that is designed specifically to break its visual identity.

And the fact that worgens can change into human form outside combat and automatically turn back into worgen when they enter combat is irrelevant, unless you're going to try to make a claim that "blood-elf forsaken players" automatically and immediately turn back into human forsaken when they enter combat.

Repeat it as much as you want.

And I will keep repeating as long as people insist on avoiding my actual argument and insist on arguing with the idea that multiple races share silhouettes, which has nothing to do with my argument.

Ehh, now you're arguing semantics. For someone who is dedicated to facts and lore, you sure are keen at dodging the facts that matter in order to argue the difference between 'Kul Tiran Nation' and 'Kul Tiran Navy'.

Come on, dude. This is not semantics. There are leagues of differences between saying "the full nation" and "part of the nation's navy". That's like saying you've seen the whole interior of a house when you've only seen the inside of the garage. Or that you've drunk the entire bottle when all you've done is take a sip from a shot glass.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I totally get what you mean, MyWholeLifeIsThunder, and I think I might bow out again for now since I'm not really sure what else to add.

Deuces dude! Hopefully there will be more to talk about not much later!

[Triceron]

But that's the thing: worgen will always look like worgen when they're engaging with the content that requires them to fight something. Or when they're engaging in their all-fours "mount" run. That's why when a Horde meets a worgen, 9/10 they'll see a wolf-man. Or wolf-woman.

If your argument is that races have a FIXED visual identity then your bogus statistic is neither factual or relevant.

No. It doesn't. An upright orc still looks like an orc. And again, there is leagues of differences between making a character walk upright, and making a hunched, zombified human become an upright blood elf.

Read closely. The entire SiLHOUETTE changes. Your argument implied silhouettes should not be changed, and this is an example of a silhouette changing.

You can not deny this based on your own subjective opinion. 'Leagues of difference' is not a fact, it is your opinion.

The forsaken player is, considering the playable race is comprised of humans who died in Lordaeron.

And the advent of Wildhammer and Sand Troll customizations have rendered that argument moot. Lore does not hold any value here if it is not being adhered to. Exiles Reach is Blizzard's solution to this.

So you're okay with the idea that Blizzard could one day implement human customization that makes them look exactly like a draenei? Or a tauren look like a goblin? Or a gnome look like a void elf? And again: unbent orcs are still orcs, and worgen cannot be anything but worgen during combat.

There is a difference in having an opinion, and making a claim that is backed by fallacies. You are doing the latter, and I am pointing out the errors of your argument.

Personally I have been absolutely clear to you where I stand in terms of what Blizzard does. I don't agree with Blood Elves on the Horde, I don't agree with allied races excluding Wildhammers, I don't agree with many many things they do.

But its clear to me that they are blurring the lines of visual identity and of racial lore by opening up customization, and I can see them opening that up even further with more and more options, including proportion changes if their technology supports it. I don't see reason in 'visual identity' playing any part in limiting this.

And the fact that worgens can change into human form outside combat and automatically turn back into worgen when they enter combat is irrelevant, unless you're going to try to make a claim that "blood-elf forsaken players" automatically and immediately turn back into human forsaken when they enter combat.

It matters if you are claiming your argument is based on FIXED visual identities.

Come on, dude. This is not semantics. There are leagues of differences between saying "the full nation" and "part of the nation's navy". That's like saying you've seen the whole interior of a house when you've only seen the inside of the garage. Or that you've drunk the entire bottle when all you've done is take a sip from a shot glass.

If the context is answering your initial question of 'How do you KNOW Kul Tirans look like regular (Stormwind) Humans', then no, the context does not have a LEAGUE of difference.

The context is the same - We have seen Kul Tiran Navy AND Nation as represented by their Naval army, and they looked like regular Humans. You were not questioning whether they could be diverse you were asking how we know they look THE SAME.

If you can't remember the context of your own argument, then maybe you should consider paying attention to your own words instead of just cherry picking the arguments and shifting your goalpost.

Because I am calling you out and holding you to your words. You have already claimed once to have not asked me to prove my words, and when I called you out on your own hypocrisy you just brushed it off like it didn't matter. Remember who you are replying to and the words you are using

If you use a word like Silhouette, then you should know the definition and know that 'they still look like an Orc!' does not change the fact your initial argument said silhouette specifically. This is especially the case when you have used this terminology specifically to defend some of your other statements regarding 'Visual identity'.

[Kyriani]

Oh wow they almost appear greenish with the rest of the glow effects! noice!

Yea! With that almost sea-green color from the armor and weapons it kinda makes the eyes seem like they match!

[Ardenaso]

Not anymore. Her eyes are again blue.

her eyes should be purple since she would get them from the Dalarani crystals