Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Wired-Lain]

In fact I think that Ji and Aysa are losers too.

Let alone the fact that Vereesa was one of the main characters of MoP.

Rokhan? Moira? Muradin? Gazlowe? Voss? Shaw? Shandris? Garona?

Hell it took BFA for Lor'themar to get a unique model, and he leads the most popular race in the game. And even then he missed the start of it.

[Varodoc]

Rokhan? Moira? Muradin? Gazlowe? Voss? Shaw? Shandris? Garona?

Hell it took BFA for Lor'themar to get a unique model, and he leads the most popular race in the game. And even then he missed the start of it.

I called Rokhan a loser like last week, as for the others they aren't even worth mentioning.

Of course, the fact that there are a lot of losers in the world doesn't justify nor excuse Vereesa being one.

So Yes, she is a loser, loser, loser, who can't even get a unique model despite being a Windrunner.

[elbleuet]

I guess Vereesa is one of the few characters that has battled in 5 different capitals (Theramore, Orgrimmar, Suramar, Grim Batol and Dalaran).

Not that bad for a loser

I would like her to get her own, unique model. But she's fine as she is I like her outfit.

[Alanar]

@Ielenia

Again you are not listening I told you about the visual identity, but you clearly have no idea what you are talking about if you dismiss all examples given by multiple posters now.

You can even take druids or demon hunter as examples. But orcs are a enough of an example. It doesnt even matter if its in or out combat by you logic. What you are saying is.. basically an opinion.

Which is fine, but not as facts as you claimed before.

Again on Sylvanas.. stop with the nonsense that she isnt a forsaken. We are not talking about what you play.. how many times do I need to repeat myself? What comes afther is what the whole discussion was about is that players want to look like sylvanas and the second thing what you also ignored is that forsaken never excisted with just lorderean humans. Forsaken in wow is a race and its a erray of differnt undead creatures. Blizzard qualifies them as a race and no one is arguing of what they used to be in life. I understand its a complex thing and maybe confusing for you.

The undead Forsaken[1][2] (or simply the Forsaken or Undead)[3][4] are a race[5][6] and a faction[7][8] of intelligent undead

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I always feel like if you take the 3 sisters and theme a Ranger class off of them, you could do quite well. Shadow/Necromancy, Arcane and Void are all perfect for a magic-based Ranger class. That would give the characters a bigger role to play if they had a class of their own to be associated with.

But that would only work if they somehow redeem Sylvanas, and I'd rather them not do that.

It might be little late on that. This idea has been posted many times before, but A simmilar idea that was going around was to combine dark ranger/warden and shadow hunters in one.. never was a huge fan of that since all 3 options are kinda tied to certain races etc.

I rather see Dark ranger be a seperate thing. Vereesa and Alleria dont realy add enough to create their own thing. Vereesa is just a random hunter and alleria is this new thing, but also still feels like a enhanced hunter. Dark ranger coule bring a whole banshee theme with smokey teleports and maybe even some of the new powers to feed the dark ranger vibe. In those 15 years of Sylvanas/Nathanos and her dark rangers I feel like is just more to pull from, but this is just my opinion and not every one will agree ofc.

[Wired-Lain]

I called Rokhan a loser like last week, as for the others they aren't even worth mentioning.

Of course, the fact that there are a lot of losers in the world doesn't justify nor excuse Vereesa being one.

So Yes, she is a loser, loser, loser, who can't even get a unique model despite being a Windrunner.

If you think Voss, Shandris and Lor'themar aren't worth mentioning I don't think you actually play this game then. Or you're just out to shitpost.

[Varodoc]

If you think Voss, Shandris and Lor'themar aren't worth mentioning I don't think you actually play this game then. Or you're just out to shitpost.

They are not important, don't delude yourself. They are not important characters for the fandom, and they are not important characters for the storyline.

[Triceron]

do you think that? first people want the race, they got void elves, then they wanted the skin, now is the hair, do ou seriouslly think its going to stop there when we already saw examples of people wanting the others?

No, I said that people WOULD NOT stop suggesting ideas and this is something that *you* have to deal with if you are coming to the MMO-C forums. Telling people to stop suggesting more changes is meaningless.

Your best course of action? Stop coming to these types of threads.

If you don't like the noise of the suggestion threads, then don't go to the suggestion threads. You have your choice. You can't control what everyone else decides to do.

[Ielenia]

no, i call you out by tying to use something i cath you doing, you do red hearing all the time, i call you out for that, so its pretty funny that you are accusing me for that, your pedantry about "English teaching" just show that.

No, you just accuse me of red herring because you either don't want or cannot deal with the argument I present.

ah yes, the argumment of "how you know void elves re no eating a dark naaru on the dailly basis to be like alleria?, thats a fallacy

You were the one that made a statement of fact:

using void powers is completely out of the point here, she could use void powers fine and not be a void elf, only when she absord the naaru she got her racial to change, not before, that is a fact.

We know for a fact that is not the same as alleria, its up to you to prove it is

because it is a fact, unless you can proof they are, since you are the one onjecting this information

No, you are bringing nonsense, its the prime example of the appeal to ignorance, you are like a walking fallacy

Dude. Do you even know what "appeal to ignorance" means? It means, and I quote: "asserting a conclusion to be true because there is no evidence that disproves it".

And that is exactly what you are doing. You are asserting your conclusion to be true because there is no conclusive evidence against it. While I am offering alternate possibilities that fit within the available evidence.

Your nonsense is "how do you know void elvs are not eating a dark naaru" don't try to backpedal the nonsense you are saying.

Sorry, but no. At no point you specified that was what you were talking about, there. You made broad, sweeping generalizations about my arguments.

first, your hypothesis is just that, your damn hypotesis,

And your claims are just as much hypothesis as mine. The difference is that, unlike you, I'm not stating mine as fact.

lmao, you are chaning goalpoints,

So what if they don't go all the way, because "dark naarus" are a rare commodity to come by, especially one that falls "naturally".

you are making shit up

You literally accused me of "making shit up" when I mentioned how rare dark naaru are.

No, you are using double standarts and you have bein called out here not just by me.

And funny how everyone who "called me out" made the same mistake as you did: assuming I'm talking about two races sharing player models, when I'm not.

Void elves literally had their own visual identity muddled to comport high elves, they can literally not look like how they should look if they chose, and youa re telling me a forsaken, cannot look like an human or an elf when forsaken was always about then? with their leader being an elf since warcraft3?

No, because I'm not talking about textures, but the player MODEL. One would think me repeating the words "player model" over and over would clue you in on that.

you do not even know wtf you are tlking about, right? you ae going o throw shit on th wall hoping it sticks?

Again, this is you either accidentally or willfully misunderstanding my arguments. Considering the amount of times I've explained yet you insist on the misunderstanding, I'm leaning toward the latter.

unless they ate a dark naaru, they didn't. And that is canon until proves otherwise, not the other way around

until you can prove she does, she didn't, she could not.

That's not how it works. It can easily be either way. There is nothing, and I repeat, nothing in the lore that disproves the hypothesis that Alleria could already assume a void form prior to eating the dark naaru. You're assuming your headcanon as fact.

even funny comming from someone that entire topic is based on the appeal to ignore

"how do you know my absurd theory isn't true? you can't refute that!1!!

This is just blatant misrepresentation of my arguments considering I never presented my ideas as true, only that they could be true, i.e., they're a hypothesis. You're the one projecting since the only one who is making assertions of facts is you.

Before she was a high elf, she never claimed or stated she was anything beyond that. That is the proof.

No, it's not. She never claimed herself to be a void elf until after she rescued Umbric and his group.

She never transformed before, she never had those powers before, and it is stated that her metamorphosis

Her never transforming before is not evidence that she could not. And check the whole quote you posted: "that she could turn on and off at will". This was never stated anywhere, so it means this is the interpretation of whoever edited that part of the WoWPedia's article, considering it doesn't cite any sources.

The cinematic show her gaining new power as she absorb the naaru:


Locus-walker said is a newfound power, if she could do before, this would not be "new":

First, it's not Locus Walker that says the line you quoted. That is WoWPedia's interpretation of the cinematic.
Second, it is not stated that this "new power" is the ability to take on a void form.
Third, Locus Walker's actual words were: Locus-Walker yells: Seize the power of the portals, Alleria! It can become your weapon!
Meaning that there's a possibility these "new powers" she awakened with is the ability to create portals.

the racial article says that:


Everything state that she only had this power aftrf absorbing the dark naaru, you are the one brining up anedoctal "hypothesis" tryign to shift the focus, using appeal to ignorance, im not going to respond on this anymore, its done, you can live with your world of hypothesis.

First: next time, link a source. It's not hard. Second: this is not official information. This is just trivia which is observation of the mechanical functionalities of the ability. They're not necessarily canon information.

they are stated in the game as another race, and they ar until something proves otherwise, is how it works

Please learn the difference between playable race and actual race. Both are not the same, considering that Worgen are a separate playable race but they are not a different race than humans:

Can worgen reproduce naturally or only through a bite or blood? Would their child be a worgen or normal?
The worgen curse is exactly that: a curse. Its origins are rooted in the druidic "pack form" that was later altered by the Scythe of Elune. The end result is the worgen we see today, beings that can transmit their affliction to others via a single bite.
In theory, if two worgen were to mate and produce an offspring, that offspring would not be a worgen. The child would merely possess the genetic material of his or her parents, like any other child sans the curse.

you just didn't said they are the same race, you said they are the exact same race:

Yeah, bad wording on my part, there. What I meant is that both have the same origins, whereas the mag'har orcs come from a different dimension.

they never have being staed as a dying race but extinct, they always show as big numbers in evey horde battle, but of course, you ae going to use this dumb argument

For the first part, we don't have any official statement either way. As for the second half, you're using BfA numbers. Brown orcs were never in "big numbers in every Horde battle" before then.

the funny thing is how you do not realize this is applied to you, since you said there was mroe high elves than maghar,

I did not. You, on the other hand, did:

why they would even need a settlement? they live with other orcs, in their settlements, but Nagrand alone is more than any high elf hut that you call "settlment"

So, I'll repeat the question: how do you know? Did you count them all?

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If your argument is that races have a FIXED visual identity then your bogus statistic is neither factual or relevant.

You will almost always be a wolfman/woman every time group content is involved, and most of the time where solo grouping is involved. So, again, unless you're going to argue that "upright blood elf forsaken" will instantly and immediately turn into "hunched human forsaken" the moment they get in combat, using the worgen as example is not a good argument.

Read closely. The entire SiLHOUETTE changes. Your argument implied silhouettes should not be changed, and this is an example of a silhouette changing.

Not really. The arms are still just as bulky. And so are the legs. And so are the shoulders and the body. In other words: an upright orc still looks like an orc. What we're talking about is making another race be made to look like another race altogether all the time, regardless of the situation.

And the advent of Wildhammer and Sand Troll customizations have rendered that argument moot. Lore does not hold any value here if it is not being adhered to. Exiles Reach is Blizzard's solution to this.

Trolls are still trolls, and dwarves are still dwarves. Humans are not elves.

There is a difference in having an opinion, and making a claim that is backed by fallacies. You are doing the latter, and I am pointing out the errors of your argument.

Personally I have been absolutely clear to you where I stand in terms of what Blizzard does. I don't agree with Blood Elves on the Horde, I don't agree with allied races excluding Wildhammers, I don't agree with many many things they do.

But its clear to me that they are blurring the lines of visual identity and of racial lore by opening up customization, and I can see them opening that up even further with more and more options, including proportion changes if their technology supports it. I don't see reason in 'visual identity' playing any part in limiting this.

There are leagues of differences between making orcs stand upright and making allied races look like existing races, and making already existing races be able to look exactly alike another already existing race.

If the context is answering your initial question of 'How do you KNOW Kul Tirans look like regular (Stormwind) Humans', then no, the context does not have a LEAGUE of difference.

The context is the same - We have seen Kul Tiran Navy AND Nation as represented by their Naval army, and they looked like regular Humans. You were not questioning whether they could be diverse you were asking how we know they look THE SAME.

If you can't remember the context of your own argument, then maybe you should consider paying attention to your own words instead of just cherry picking the arguments and shifting your goalpost.

Because I am calling you out and holding you to your words. You have already claimed once to have not asked me to prove my words, and when I called you out on your own hypocrisy you just brushed it off like it didn't matter. Remember who you are replying to and the words you are using

If you use a word like Silhouette, then you should know the definition and know that 'they still look like an Orc!' does not change the fact your initial argument said silhouette specifically. This is especially the case when you have used this terminology specifically to defend some of your other statements regarding 'Visual identity'.

The bulk of your last few responses against me had you get all hang up on the specific wordings of my arguments, like when you did right here:

If your argument is that races have a FIXED visual identity

And now you engage in the exact same thing you're accusing me of, when you wrote "the full nation of Kul'Tiras". Why is it when you respond to my arguments, it's only the literal meaning of every single word that I write that matters, regardless of nuance and context, but when you do it, it's "context matters"? Seems like a case of "rules for thee but not for me", here. You're better than this.

[Triceron]

You will almost always be a wolfman/woman every time group content is involved, and most of the time where solo grouping is involved. So, again, unless you're going to argue that "upright blood elf forsaken" will instantly and immediately turn into "hunched human forsaken" the moment they get in combat, using the worgen as example is not a good argument.

Stop dodging here.

You CLAIMED that the visual identity of races are fixed. Meaning they do not change.

Worgen are a clear and relevant example of a race that does not have a FIXED visual identity, they can transform it at will into a form that resembles another playable race; Humans.

You can not claim that races have a fixed identity. When we apply this back to Forsaken, your argument does not hold any factual truth behind it.

Not really. The arms are still just as bulky. And so are the legs. And so are the shoulders and the body. In other words: an upright orc still looks like an orc. What we're talking about is making another race be made to look like another race altogether all the time, regardless of the situation.

This is your subjective opinion, not a standing fact.

The only fact you can allocate to this is whether the silhouette is broken or not. In this case, yes the silhouette is broken. You were wrong, you can not deflect this by saying 'Not really because I don't think so'.

Silhouette means outline. If you change the default standing posture, you are changing the silhouette.

Trolls are still trolls, and dwarves are still dwarves. Humans are not elves.

Forsaken are not only Humans though. This is the fallacy you have made. Forsaken are Undead races collectively united as a group.

If we are talking about people suggesting that to change, and we are factoring in that Blizzard has accomodate many of these suggestions, then there is no reason to assume that your argument holds a higher standard than those of any other. You could argue that Worgens shouldn't have tails because they currently don't, but current standards do not support what *should* or *should not* happen. That is not supporting evidence for your argument. It's the absence of evidence fallacy.

Considering the ambiguity behind the definition of Forsaken, it is equally viable that Forsaken is defined as 'Undead races' and could include an Elf model within its own customizable options. There is no denying this possibility. When pushing further to say that adding an Elf model option would break its visual identity, then it also holds no weight considering we have examples of other races breaking their visual identity such as with Worgens and Orcs; potentially more in the future.

And now you engage in the exact same thing you're accusing me of, when you wrote "the full nation of Kul'Tiras". Why is it when you respond to my arguments, it's only the literal meaning of every single word that I write that matters, regardless of nuance and context, but when you do it, it's "context matters"? Seems like a case of "rules for thee but not for me", here. You're better than this.

YOU are the one who asked How do we KNOW (Kul Tirans looked the same as regular Humans prior to BFA)

You are deflecting this again and again, and still refuse to address it. The context matters because you asked a question which I answered with FACTS, and you chose to attack a part of my reply that doesn't change the context of answering your question. In both cases, your question was answered factually.

The Kul Tiras Navy represents the people of its Nation in Rexxar's campaign. Every unit we see in the army in WC3 represents everything we've seen in BFA; Hydromancers representing the Tide Sages, Sea Lords representing the warriors and buccaneers. It's a very clear representation of the Kul Tirans, and definitely not simply 'Lordaeron refugees' as you implied earlier.

If you are asking if we know if the Kul Tirans looked like regular Humans, then you can't deny the facts by deflecting that there are Lordaeron refugees amongst that army. Do you not understand the context of answering your question and then shifting the goalpost?

The point of this is it's impossible to have a conversation with you when you do not even regard the context of the questions you ask. If you ask a question and I reply, and you counter the argument with something that is completely unrelated to your original question then you aren't having a conversation, you're just looking for 'gotcha' moments. That's completely dishonest. What I am pointing out to you is how you are taking something I said out of context, and making an argument outside of its context, rather than look at the full statement in context of your original question of 'How do we know Kul Tirans looked like regular Humans'. The distinction between Navy and Nation do not change the fact that the Kul Tirans are represented visually as standard Humans in WC3 and all of WoW prior to BFA.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

In fact I think that Ji and Aysa are losers too.

Let alone the fact that Vereesa was one of the main characters of MoP.

Main characters of MoP? Dude I love Vereesa and even I think that's a wild exaggeration of her role in the story lol.

[Varodoc]

Main characters of MoP? Dude I love Vereesa and even I think that's a wild exaggeration of her role in the story lol.

Playing a central role in the Alliance storyline of both patch 5.1 and 5.2, spearheading the Alliance offensive at the Siege of Orgrimmar, how would you call it?

I'm surprised you people are underestimating Vereesa so much, isn't this thread meant to be about High elf fanboys?

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I called Rokhan a loser like last week, as for the others they aren't even worth mentioning.

Of course, the fact that there are a lot of losers in the world doesn't justify nor excuse Vereesa being one.

So Yes, she is a loser, loser, loser, who can't even get a unique model despite being a Windrunner.

Now it just comes of as you having a tantrum and calling every character without an unique model a loser. What a sophisticated level of discourse.

[Triceron]

Playing a central role in the Alliance storyline of both patch 5.1 and 5.2, spearheading the Alliance offensive at the Siege of Orgrimmar, how would you call it?

I'm surprised you people are underestimating Vereesa so much, isn't this thread meant to be about High elf fanboys?

Did she do that?

I came back to WoW at the last months of MoP to get my Garrosh heirlooms, Alliance toon. I don't remember her being in Siege of Orgrimmar at all. I'm even looking at the WoWpedia page about the raid and it lists practically every Alliance (and Horde) faction cept the Silver Convenant and no mention of Vereesa.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Playing a central role in the Alliance storyline of both patch 5.1 and 5.2, spearheading the Alliance offensive at the Siege of Orgrimmar, how would you call it?

I'm surprised you people are underestimating Vereesa so much, isn't this thread meant to be about High elf fanboys?

The problem in this whole conversation is that you have zero grasp of nuance. Like Vereesa is a secondary character that shows up from time to time... that's it. And people like her. It's you the one that seems to only deal on the most ridiculous extremes.

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Did she do that?

I came back to WoW at the last months of MoP to get my Garrosh heirlooms, Alliance toon. I don't remember her being in Siege of Orgrimmar at all. I'm even looking at the WoWpedia page about the raid and it lists practically every Alliance (and Horde) faction cept the Silver Convenant and no mention of Vereesa.

She helps you during the Galakras encounter on the beach. That's pretty much it. And it's nice to see her there, but the amount of hyperbole Varodoc is pulling now is just wow

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Not rly, you fist set this blue hair color as some sort of parameter and since they share that it goes out of the window when this is just a minor thing in what im saying, you completely ignore the part where this blue hair does not make void elves unique, neither is much pertinent, so they should do more darker and exclusive options to void elves, like real dark hair, not this blue one

Exactly, as if a couple of hair colors doesn't define the aesthetics of a race...

But yeah, when you can just dismiss a dark hair color as something that doesn't define Void Elves and it's just a minor thing, but then an equivalent light hair is out of the question, that's just... hypocresy.

[Varodoc]

Now it just comes of as you having a tantrum and calling every character without an unique model a loser. What a sophisticated level of discourse.

Why are you so salty? I just made a joke about them not having a unique model lol, there's no reason to insult me.

The problem in this whole conversation is that you have zero grasp of nuance. Like Vereesa is a secondary character that shows up from time to time... that's it. And people like her. It's you the one that seems to only deal on the most ridiculous extremes.

She didn't "show up from time to time" in MoP, she literally serves as one of the main protagonists/antagonists of both 5.1 (Purge of Dalaran) and 5.2 (Isle of Thunder), and furthermore she is one of the main Alliance leaders at SoO alongside Varian and Jaina. To put this into perspective, Sylvanas and Theron are the Horde counterpart in that raid. Of all 5 leaders who spearhead the landfall at SoO, Vereesa is the only one without a unique model.

Did she do that?

I came back to WoW at the last months of MoP to get my Garrosh heirlooms, Alliance toon. I don't remember her being in Siege of Orgrimmar at all. I'm even looking at the WoWpedia page about the raid and it lists practically every Alliance (and Horde) faction cept the Silver Convenant and no mention of Vereesa.

Then I have serious doubts that whoever wrote that article for Wowpedia played SoO:



Vereesa spearheads the Alliance offensive into Orgrimmar alongside Varian and Jaina.

[Triceron]

Then I have serious doubts that whoever wrote that article for Wowpedia played SoO:

Vereesa spearheads the Alliance offensive into Orgrimmar alongside Varian and Jaina.

"Vereesa accompanies King Varian Wrynn's force to seize Bladefist Bay from Hellscream's forces, and takes part in the Galakras encounter. During the battle Vereesa wears a new outfit that more closely resembles her artwork."

That's whats in Vereesa's own WoWpedia page.

Also can confirm Thunder's post about her being present at the Galakrond fight.


I can't find anything about her spearheading the Alliance. That seems to be Varian's role in the entire thing. And by my own account, considering I ran that place multiple times to get my heirlooms, I would defer to trusting the WoWpedia source as well as those that reinforce my memory of the events. I can't find any source that says she spearheaded or lead the Alliance. At most, she lead the Silver Covenant in the attacks, and I don't consider that making her main character material. Secondary, for sure.

[Varodoc]

"Vereesa accompanies King Varian Wrynn's force to seize Bladefist Bay from Hellscream's forces, and takes part in the Galakras encounter. During the battle Vereesa wears a new outfit that more closely resembles her artwork."

That's whats in Vereesa's own WoWpedia page.

Also can confirm Thunder's post about her being present at the Galakrond fight.


I can't find anything about her spearheading the Alliance. That seems to be Varian's role in the entire thing. And by my own account, considering I ran that place multiple times to get my heirlooms, I would defer to trusting the WoWpedia source as well as those that reinforce my memory of the events. I can't find any source that says she spearheaded or lead the Alliance. At most, she lead the Silver Covenant in the attacks, and I don't consider that making her main character material.

She is literally standing next to Varian and Jaina during the initial landfall into Orgrimmar. Their Horde counterparts are Theron and Sylvanas, both leading their respective armadas. Stop arguing semantics, she is spearheading the Alliance landfall along with Varian and Jaina. They could've chosen Velen, Muradin, Moira, Mekkatorque, anyone to put on that ship as third Alliance leader, and they chose Vereesa.

[Triceron]

She is literally standing next to Varian and Jaina during the initial landfall into Orgrimmar. Their Horde counterparts are Theron and Sylvanas, both leading their respective armadas. Stop arguing semantics, she is spearheading the Alliance landfall along with Varian and Jaina. They could've chosen Velen, Muradin, Moira, Mekkatorque, anyone to put on that ship as third Alliance leader, and they chose Vereesa.

Mekkatorque appears later. Do you consider him main character material too? Not quite sure what you are defining as main character considering so many characters shared screen time during this raid.

She is present at the Landfall scenario, yes, but she is alongside a whole bunch of other characters that outrank her. I was under the impression from your initial statement that she was somehow solely responsible for this, making her considered as a main character, rather than be in a contributing role in the attacks for one fight.

[Varodoc]

Mekkatorque appears later. Do you consider him main character material too?

No, as he is not a main character in 5.1 (Vereesa plays a pivotal role in the Purge of Dalaran), nor in 5.2 (Vereesa plays a pivotal role at Isle of Thunder). Evidently, Blizzard deemed her not worthy of a unique character model, despite playing a pivotal role in the Alliance storyline of MoP.

[Triceron]

No, as he is not a main character in 5.1 (Vereesa plays a pivotal role in the Purge of Dalaran), nor in 5.2 (Vereesa plays a pivotal role at Isle of Thunder).

Ah, understandable then.

I don't consider Vereesa main character material either then even though she played pivotal roles. Secondary characters play pivotal roles too.