1. #21821
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Wow, this is amazing, it's also funny how it suits perfectly the OG Void Elf skin tones, way better than the whitish spooky eyes they were delivered with.

  2. #21822
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    You know, while I deeply want white hair, the lack of black hair really feels like negligence, specially when NPCs get to use it. It's really so freaking weird VE's got shafted of both white or black as hair color, which is something EVERY race should have.

    (And I'm gonna be honest, I'm happy about blue eyes on VE because of what they mean lorewise, but these new ones are actually the pretties eye color they have added lol. Will fit my arcane mage perfectly, also my sub rogue VE heheh)
    I plan to use the new arcane eyes for my own arcane mage as well (see my avatar)! My sub rogue though, I changed his eyes to match his current transmog. And since I plan for him to go Necrolords, it looks thematically appropriate for their aesthetics!


  3. #21823
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    I plan to use the new arcane eyes for my own arcane mage as well (see my avatar)! My sub rogue though, I changed his eyes to match his current transmog. And since I plan for him to go Necrolords, it looks thematically appropriate for their aesthetics!

    Oh wow they almost appear greenish with the rest of the glow effects! noice!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    Wow, this is amazing, it's also funny how it suits perfectly the OG Void Elf skin tones, way better than the whitish spooky eyes they were delivered with.
    It's really crazy how good they fit, and that's what I LOVE of all the freedom new customization give us. A BE with these eyes? Has that arcane mage vibe, but on a VE, they read completely different. Awesome.

  4. #21824
    I totally get what you mean, MyWholeLifeIsThunder, and I think I might bow out again for now since I'm not really sure what else to add.
    Last edited by Jokubas; 2020-10-29 at 02:25 AM.

  5. #21825
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    If the context of your argument is 'Races have a fixed visual identity' then you're not addressing this at all. You're just saying it doesn't matter to you that this goes against your argument when doing certain types of content. For someone who is adamant on using facts over opinion, you seem to be okay with using your opinion to address the facts.

    If you make a claim that Ducks can't fly, and someone points out Ducks do fly, then you aren't countering the argument by saying 'Well only sometimes, but I don't regard that as real flying. They don't fly most of the time'. You're just backpedalling and defending a complete fallacy. You need to address the claim you made, and you definitely aren't doing so here.
    But that's the thing: worgen will always look like worgen when they're engaging with the content that requires them to fight something. Or when they're engaging in their all-fours "mount" run. That's why when a Horde meets a worgen, 9/10 they'll see a wolf-man. Or wolf-woman.

    You can't say the general silhouette is the same when unbent Orc literally changes the entire silhouette.
    No. It doesn't. An upright orc still looks like an orc. And again, there is leagues of differences between making a character walk upright, and making a hunched, zombified human become an upright blood elf.

    If Human can include a diverse range that includes Worgen and giant Kul Tiran, then there's no reason why you should be arguing against a Forsaken Elf allied race.
    And I never did. I never, ever did that. The only thing I'm arguing against is this idea that forsaken player characters should be able to choose if they want to look like a zombified, hunched human or a pale-skinned upright blood elf.

    'Forsaken' does not apply to any singular race and does not adhere to any singular 'visual identity'. The terminology we use is simply a catchall for a Human(based) Undead variation, yet at no point is it exclusive to Humans.
    The forsaken player is, considering the playable race is comprised of humans who died in Lordaeron.

    No matter how we look at this, Unbent Orcs and Worgen are exapmples of Blizzard providing racial options that break visual identity. This is a FACT.
    So you're okay with the idea that Blizzard could one day implement human customization that makes them look exactly like a draenei? Or a tauren look like a goblin? Or a gnome look like a void elf? And again: unbent orcs are still orcs, and worgen cannot be anything but worgen during combat.

    And both Worgens have the ability to break that silhouette. Your argument is 'Well only in some content' which doesn't actually address the issue here of having a race that is designed specifically to break its visual identity.
    And the fact that worgens can change into human form outside combat and automatically turn back into worgen when they enter combat is irrelevant, unless you're going to try to make a claim that "blood-elf forsaken players" automatically and immediately turn back into human forsaken when they enter combat.

    Repeat it as much as you want.
    And I will keep repeating as long as people insist on avoiding my actual argument and insist on arguing with the idea that multiple races share silhouettes, which has nothing to do with my argument.

    Ehh, now you're arguing semantics. For someone who is dedicated to facts and lore, you sure are keen at dodging the facts that matter in order to argue the difference between 'Kul Tiran Nation' and 'Kul Tiran Navy'.
    Come on, dude. This is not semantics. There are leagues of differences between saying "the full nation" and "part of the nation's navy". That's like saying you've seen the whole interior of a house when you've only seen the inside of the garage. Or that you've drunk the entire bottle when all you've done is take a sip from a shot glass.

  6. #21826
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokubas View Post
    I totally get what you mean, MyWholeLifeIsThunder, and I think I might bow out again for now since I'm not really sure what else to add.
    Deuces dude! Hopefully there will be more to talk about not much later!

  7. #21827
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    But that's the thing: worgen will always look like worgen when they're engaging with the content that requires them to fight something. Or when they're engaging in their all-fours "mount" run. That's why when a Horde meets a worgen, 9/10 they'll see a wolf-man. Or wolf-woman.
    If your argument is that races have a FIXED visual identity then your bogus statistic is neither factual or relevant.

    No. It doesn't. An upright orc still looks like an orc. And again, there is leagues of differences between making a character walk upright, and making a hunched, zombified human become an upright blood elf.
    Read closely. The entire SiLHOUETTE changes. Your argument implied silhouettes should not be changed, and this is an example of a silhouette changing.

    You can not deny this based on your own subjective opinion. 'Leagues of difference' is not a fact, it is your opinion.

    The forsaken player is, considering the playable race is comprised of humans who died in Lordaeron.
    And the advent of Wildhammer and Sand Troll customizations have rendered that argument moot. Lore does not hold any value here if it is not being adhered to. Exiles Reach is Blizzard's solution to this.

    So you're okay with the idea that Blizzard could one day implement human customization that makes them look exactly like a draenei? Or a tauren look like a goblin? Or a gnome look like a void elf? And again: unbent orcs are still orcs, and worgen cannot be anything but worgen during combat.
    There is a difference in having an opinion, and making a claim that is backed by fallacies. You are doing the latter, and I am pointing out the errors of your argument.

    Personally I have been absolutely clear to you where I stand in terms of what Blizzard does. I don't agree with Blood Elves on the Horde, I don't agree with allied races excluding Wildhammers, I don't agree with many many things they do.

    But its clear to me that they are blurring the lines of visual identity and of racial lore by opening up customization, and I can see them opening that up even further with more and more options, including proportion changes if their technology supports it. I don't see reason in 'visual identity' playing any part in limiting this.

    And the fact that worgens can change into human form outside combat and automatically turn back into worgen when they enter combat is irrelevant, unless you're going to try to make a claim that "blood-elf forsaken players" automatically and immediately turn back into human forsaken when they enter combat.
    It matters if you are claiming your argument is based on FIXED visual identities.

    Come on, dude. This is not semantics. There are leagues of differences between saying "the full nation" and "part of the nation's navy". That's like saying you've seen the whole interior of a house when you've only seen the inside of the garage. Or that you've drunk the entire bottle when all you've done is take a sip from a shot glass.
    If the context is answering your initial question of 'How do you KNOW Kul Tirans look like regular (Stormwind) Humans', then no, the context does not have a LEAGUE of difference.

    The context is the same - We have seen Kul Tiran Navy AND Nation as represented by their Naval army, and they looked like regular Humans. You were not questioning whether they could be diverse you were asking how we know they look THE SAME.

    If you can't remember the context of your own argument, then maybe you should consider paying attention to your own words instead of just cherry picking the arguments and shifting your goalpost.

    Because I am calling you out and holding you to your words. You have already claimed once to have not asked me to prove my words, and when I called you out on your own hypocrisy you just brushed it off like it didn't matter. Remember who you are replying to and the words you are using

    If you use a word like Silhouette, then you should know the definition and know that 'they still look like an Orc!' does not change the fact your initial argument said silhouette specifically. This is especially the case when you have used this terminology specifically to defend some of your other statements regarding 'Visual identity'.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2020-10-29 at 04:19 AM.

  8. #21828
    Oh wow they almost appear greenish with the rest of the glow effects! noice!
    Yea! With that almost sea-green color from the armor and weapons it kinda makes the eyes seem like they match!

  9. #21829
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    Not anymore. Her eyes are again blue.

    her eyes should be purple since she would get them from the Dalarani crystals
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.

  10. #21830
    With a little photoshop, here's what I should look like once Void Elves get black hair:


  11. #21831
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    With a little photoshop, here's what I should look like once Void Elves get black hair:

    I really hope we do!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    her eyes should be purple since she would get them from the Dalarani crystals
    Eh that's mostly fanon so far, there's no confirmation as to whether the type of arcane energy affects the eye color one way or the other, but I do agree it would be neat.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Traycor View Post
    I'm excited to see when they do the Allied Race cosmetic updates! Looking forward to more high elf hair colors so we can get a more true high elf experience.
    If all we are going to get is some options on VEs, at least make the best of it. Like it does suck HE's will never be their own AR, but what we already have is better than the alternative.

  12. #21832
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    So people shouldn't be asking for stuff they want because of slippery slopes? .
    do you think that? first people want the race, they got void elves, then they wanted the skin, now is the hair, do ou seriouslly think its going to stop there when we already saw examples of people wanting the others?


    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Well all I see is hypocrisy then, you say you don't see difference between those two dark hair colors, so then the whole idea of dichotomous aesthetics is already out of the window, and you just don't want VE's to have light hair at all because you are so petty it believes it "robs" BE's of their identity, as if their identity was was solely safeguarded by the color of their hair.

    What a useless discussion.
    Not rly, you fist set this blue hair color as some sort of parameter and since they share that it goes out of the window when this is just a minor thing in what im saying, you completely ignore the part where this blue hair does not make void elves unique, neither is much pertinent, so they should do more darker and exclusive options to void elves, like real dark hair, not this blue one

    And yes, it is a useless discussion, i already made myself clear, i don't think Void elves should get all blood elves customizations, to be essentially two race, epeciall when void elves are not sharing nothing with blood elves either. If you think is fine thats you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You opened the door when you decided to act as if you're an english teacher, when in fact you're just avoiding having to answer the question that catches you in the act.
    no, i call you out by tying to use something i cath you doing, you do red hearing all the time, i call you out for that, so its pretty funny that you are accusing me for that, your pedantry about "English teaching" just show that.

    You don't see red herrings in my posts. You see an argument you cannot refute so you dismiss it by claiming it as a fallacy. There's a difference.
    ah yes, the argumment of "how you know void elves re no eating a dark naaru on the dailly basis to be like alleria?, thats a fallacy

    This is a prime example. You cannot refute my arguments so you dismiss them as "unbelievable and nonsensical".
    No, you are bringing nonsense, its the prime example of the appeal to ignorance, you are like a walking fallacy
    Also, let's put in on record that you just called "unbelievable and nonsensical" my hypothesis that the void elves that are newly transformed are going through a safer method than what the OG void elves went through, a process that is highly likely to be similar to Alleria's, considering Locus Walker is in the Telogrus Rift.
    Your nonsense is "how do you know void elvs are not eating a dark naaru" don't try to backpedal the nonsense you are saying.

    first, your hypothesis is just that, your damn hypotesis, stop making your argument in a false or hypothetical premise, if they are not proven to be made like alleria, they are not like alleria therefore make sense for then to not b like alleria.


    So I'm making shit up when I say that naaru falling into the void are rare, especially those that fall naturally? Again, is that what you're calling me "making shit up"?
    lmao, you are chaning goalpoints, you ask me if they are rare or not and i proove to you, do you live in another reality?


    What you call "double standards" I call you not understanding my argument, either accidentally or willfully. Again, what I'm talking about has nothing to do with two or more races sharing a silhouette, but the race's own visual identity being muddled.
    No, you are using double standarts and you have bein called out here not just by me.

    Void elves literally had their own visual identity muddled to comport high elves, they can literally not look like how they should look if they chose, and youa re telling me a forsaken, cannot look like an human or an elf when forsaken was always about then? with their leader being an elf since warcraft3?

    Its literally double standarts.

    Different races having similar silhouettes in nothing affects my argument, since, once again, I'm not talking about different playable races sharing similar silhouettes. Get this through your head.
    you do not even know wtf you are tlking about, right? you ae going o throw shit on th wall hoping it sticks?
    Then show me the new void elves did not not "do the same shit" as Alleria. Oh, wait. You can't. Because the process has not been revealed.
    unless they ate a dark naaru, they didn't. And that is canon until proves otherwise, not the other way around

    Ah, so it's bait-and-switch now? Because your original statement was that "it's a fact that the void elves are not consuming dark naaru", but now you are trying to shift this to a "you said they are the same race".
    You litrally said both things, an in both things you were wrong.

    and:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Second, because unlike orcs and mag'har orcs, both are the exact same race
    you sai they were the same race, but keep backpedaling.

    One, it's not irrelevant, because it's very well possible she could take on void form before that;
    until you can prove she does, she didn't, she could not.
    and two, "reductio ad absurdum" does not make you any favors, here.
    even funny comming from someone that entire topic is based on the appeal to ignore

    "how do you know my absurd theory isn't true? you can't refute that!1!!


    A fact? Then show me the official, canon sources that say, in no uncertain terms, that: a) Alleria was not a void elf before she absorbed the dark naaru; and b) Alleria could not take on a void form before she absorbed the dark naaru. Oh, wait. You can't. Because there is none. This is, once again, you literally, undeniably stating your own headcanon as fact.
    Before she was a high elf, she never claimed or stated she was anything beyond that. That is the proof.

    She never transformed before, she never had those powers before, and it is stated that her metamorphosis

    . During the battle with L'ura he prompted Alleria to use the power of the Void rifts the dark naaru was opening, culminating in her absorbing L'ura's essence and transforming into a Void state.
    The cinematic show her gaining new power as she absorb the naaru:
    Death
    Cinematic plays.
    Alleria siphons whatever remains of L'ura. The void energies surges at Alleria and she collapses. Getting back on her feet, she awakens with the new powers given to her.
    Locus-walker said is a newfound power, if she could do before, this would not be "new":
    Locus-Walker says: Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We need to test the limits of this newfound power. Come.
    the racial article says that:
    Alleria Windrunner has a similar form that she gained after draining the dark naaru L'ura, but unlike Entropic Embrace's passive effect, Alleria can transform at will.
    Everything state that she only had this power aftrf absorbing the dark naaru, you are the one brining up anedoctal "hypothesis" tryign to shift the focus, using appeal to ignorance, im not going to respond on this anymore, its done, you can live with your world of hypothesis.

    Again: show me the official, canon source that states, in no uncertain terms, that the void elves are an actual new race,
    they are stated in the game as another race, and they ar until something proves otherwise, is how it works

    Nope. I absolutely never, ever did that. All I've ever said is that we don't have any confirmation either way.
    you just didn't said they are the same race, you said they are the exact same race:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Second, because unlike orcs and mag'har orcs, both are the exact same race
    How do you know? Did you count them?
    they never have being staed as a dying race but extinct, they always show as big numbers in evey horde battle, but of course, you ae going to use this dumb argument

    the funny thing is how you do not realize this is applied to you, since you said there was mroe high elves than maghar, did you count then? well at least in SoO alone there is more maghar than all the HE apparitions in the game.

  13. #21833
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    What? It's hardly relevant to the point, don't you realize? All those other characters are relevant because plot related reasons; the point is that Vereesa is just a regular leader of a faction, not a major lore figure. So to ask for what's essentially a secondary character to be dazzling seems like a tall order, not even Ji and Aysa, actual playable race representatives, get as much time spent on them
    In fact I think that Ji and Aysa are losers too.

    Let alone the fact that Vereesa was one of the main characters of MoP.

  14. #21834
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    In fact I think that Ji and Aysa are losers too.

    Let alone the fact that Vereesa was one of the main characters of MoP.
    Rokhan? Moira? Muradin? Gazlowe? Voss? Shaw? Shandris? Garona?

    Hell it took BFA for Lor'themar to get a unique model, and he leads the most popular race in the game. And even then he missed the start of it.

  15. #21835
    Quote Originally Posted by ript4 View Post
    Rokhan? Moira? Muradin? Gazlowe? Voss? Shaw? Shandris? Garona?

    Hell it took BFA for Lor'themar to get a unique model, and he leads the most popular race in the game. And even then he missed the start of it.
    I called Rokhan a loser like last week, as for the others they aren't even worth mentioning.

    Of course, the fact that there are a lot of losers in the world doesn't justify nor excuse Vereesa being one.

    So Yes, she is a loser, loser, loser, who can't even get a unique model despite being a Windrunner.

  16. #21836
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    I guess Vereesa is one of the few characters that has battled in 5 different capitals (Theramore, Orgrimmar, Suramar, Grim Batol and Dalaran).

    Not that bad for a loser

    I would like her to get her own, unique model. But she's fine as she is I like her outfit.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  17. #21837
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    @Ielenia

    Again you are not listening I told you about the visual identity, but you clearly have no idea what you are talking about if you dismiss all examples given by multiple posters now.

    You can even take druids or demon hunter as examples. But orcs are a enough of an example. It doesnt even matter if its in or out combat by you logic. What you are saying is.. basically an opinion.

    Which is fine, but not as facts as you claimed before.

    Again on Sylvanas.. stop with the nonsense that she isnt a forsaken. We are not talking about what you play.. how many times do I need to repeat myself? What comes afther is what the whole discussion was about is that players want to look like sylvanas and the second thing what you also ignored is that forsaken never excisted with just lorderean humans. Forsaken in wow is a race and its a erray of differnt undead creatures. Blizzard qualifies them as a race and no one is arguing of what they used to be in life. I understand its a complex thing and maybe confusing for you.

    The undead Forsaken[1][2] (or simply the Forsaken or Undead)[3][4] are a race[5][6] and a faction[7][8] of intelligent undead


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I always feel like if you take the 3 sisters and theme a Ranger class off of them, you could do quite well. Shadow/Necromancy, Arcane and Void are all perfect for a magic-based Ranger class. That would give the characters a bigger role to play if they had a class of their own to be associated with.

    But that would only work if they somehow redeem Sylvanas, and I'd rather them not do that.
    It might be little late on that. This idea has been posted many times before, but A simmilar idea that was going around was to combine dark ranger/warden and shadow hunters in one.. never was a huge fan of that since all 3 options are kinda tied to certain races etc.

    I rather see Dark ranger be a seperate thing. Vereesa and Alleria dont realy add enough to create their own thing. Vereesa is just a random hunter and alleria is this new thing, but also still feels like a enhanced hunter. Dark ranger coule bring a whole banshee theme with smokey teleports and maybe even some of the new powers to feed the dark ranger vibe. In those 15 years of Sylvanas/Nathanos and her dark rangers I feel like is just more to pull from, but this is just my opinion and not every one will agree ofc.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2020-10-30 at 08:32 AM.

  18. #21838
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I called Rokhan a loser like last week, as for the others they aren't even worth mentioning.

    Of course, the fact that there are a lot of losers in the world doesn't justify nor excuse Vereesa being one.

    So Yes, she is a loser, loser, loser, who can't even get a unique model despite being a Windrunner.
    If you think Voss, Shandris and Lor'themar aren't worth mentioning I don't think you actually play this game then. Or you're just out to shitpost.

  19. #21839
    Quote Originally Posted by ript4 View Post
    If you think Voss, Shandris and Lor'themar aren't worth mentioning I don't think you actually play this game then. Or you're just out to shitpost.
    They are not important, don't delude yourself. They are not important characters for the fandom, and they are not important characters for the storyline.

  20. #21840
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    do you think that? first people want the race, they got void elves, then they wanted the skin, now is the hair, do ou seriouslly think its going to stop there when we already saw examples of people wanting the others?
    No, I said that people WOULD NOT stop suggesting ideas and this is something that *you* have to deal with if you are coming to the MMO-C forums. Telling people to stop suggesting more changes is meaningless.

    Your best course of action? Stop coming to these types of threads.

    If you don't like the noise of the suggestion threads, then don't go to the suggestion threads. You have your choice. You can't control what everyone else decides to do.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2020-10-29 at 04:24 PM.

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