Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Triceron]

high elf isn't just a high elf because because blonde, people ahve being hammered down this many times isn't?, and, void elves are no high elves, its fine they getting some things, but all of then, when they are not said race, to me is too much

Yes but you are in the High Elf thread making statements about people should not ask for High Elf visuals lol

Which is why I say if you don't like hearing suggestions for High Elf then you have a choice to stay out of the thread. This is literally the High Elf thread. People aren't making suggestions for blonde hair void elf options outside of this thread here. You have made the choice to hang around in a High Elf discussion, what exactly are you expecting?

[Alanar]

Mostly, but not exclusively, therefore you can not make an argument that they should be exclusive to any one race.

Your fallacy is entirely based on thinking Forsaken can only be exclusively using the human model.

This is true and was trying to make that clear.
You can dissagree with that request of players, but you cant dismiss the fact that Forsaken qualify as a race and excists out of multiple undead creatures..

The undead elves have always been very representive in the forsaken for a long time, its not weird people will want to look like that.

[shoc]

You will get your undead elves but they will be Venthyr. Besides, they are glorious. What more could you want from undead elves? A thousand times more interesting than another brand of High Elf.

[Ardenaso]

I guess Vereesa is one of the few characters that has battled in 5 different capitals (Theramore, Orgrimmar, Suramar, Grim Batol and Dalaran).

Not that bad for a loser

I would like her to get her own, unique model. But she's fine as she is I like her outfit.

to be fair she was just there

and yeah; she doesn't have anything special like Sylvanas' death powers or Alleria's void powers or Zendarin's Demon Soul powers plus the fact that she is pretty much the most wanted terrorist and the enemy of the state (on the Blood Elves' perspective at least) I'd think that qualifies her to be a loser

[elbleuet]

to be fair she was just there

and yeah; she doesn't have anything special like Sylvanas' death powers or Alleria's void powers or Zendarin's Demon Soul powers plus the fact that she is pretty much the most wanted terrorist and the enemy of the state (on the Blood Elves' perspective at least) I'd think that qualifies her to be a loser

So being a regular and consistent character with normal powers is being a loser ?

So all the blood elf leadership is full of losers I guess.

[Syegfryed]

Yes but you are in the High Elf thread making statements about people should not ask for High Elf visuals lol

i never said anyone should stop doing anything here, just he other guy stop saying nonsenses, never said to people stop asking for it, i just gave my opinion that someone said it was petty, thats why you don't see me answering to anyone who ask that or other bullshit like void elf paladin.

[Ardenaso]

So being a regular and consistent character with normal powers is being a loser ?

oh yeah I forgot; she's bland but that's on Blizzard for forgetting 34432432423 characters in BFA including her

[Kyriani]

Personally, I think the moment Blizz makes the "sharing of assets" vision the way forward, we would see a lot of less pushback, and more conversations about what else can be shared by other races.

I hope that ends up being the case if Blizzard does decide to go that way. It can be tiring seeing so much arguing back and forth on a topic.

WW3. I can see it now "Homogenization of cosmetics" "cutting content" "lazy devs"

It's unfortunate that I think this is more likely

[Alanar]

You will get your undead elves but they will be Venthyr. Besides, they are glorious. What more could you want from undead elves? A thousand times more interesting than another brand of High Elf.

I have to agree tho, the Venthyr are the new wow vampires. I am also curious if we will see some venthyr crossing the veil, of that happends it will open a door if you know what I mean

Altho if you look at them, I hope the san layn get a mention somewhere, they always made us believe that they were the vampires of wow.

Some link, some hook idk I would love that.

As of undead high elves with red eyes, I would like that blizz would invest in w dark ranger class with banshee vibe, smokey teleports, death magic anf the explore more of that. It sounds intereating to me.

[Varodoc]

So being a regular and consistent character with normal powers is being a loser ?

So all the blood elf leadership is full of losers I guess.

I'm sure no one is denying that.

[Ielenia]

There is nothing even implying void elves did a proccess similar to alleri because they can't, they can't suck off a dark naaru on a dailly basis, therefore they are NOT like alleria

You're wrong in that regard, considering new void elves can have fair skin, something that is possible through Alleria's process, but apparently impossible through the "stopping void trap in the middle" process that created the OG void elves. However you slice it, it's way more likely that the void elves are being transformed through a process similar to Alleria's for three facts:
• One, it's a safer process;
• Two, it's a controlled process;
• Three, it allows the elves to retain their fair skin.

We goddamn know those things,

We don't. To assert either way is to assume headcanon as fact. Please stop assuming your headcanons as fact.

Thats because you ar using double standarts

I'm not. You're trying to force "double standards" into my arguments by attempting to shoehorn into my arguments something I never said to begin with. Again, the fact other races share similar silhouettes is irrelevant to my arguments regarding a race's own visual identity.

You are using double standarts everyone pointe out but you think you aren't.

Because those who are accusing me of "double standards" are doing the exact same thing you are doing: trying to inject something I never said into my arguments.

She got her power when she absorbed a naaru, that is the canon source,

No. It is not. It is "canon source" that Alleria got her power to create portals from the fallen Naaru: "Locus-Walker yells: Seize the power of the portals, Alleria! It can become your weapon!" It is not "canon source" the claim that moment was when Alleria was first able to take on a void form.

[quote]unless you have something to corroborate your nonsensical hypothesis that she could do before even if she didn't show to, didn't hint to(1), din't had nearly control of the void(2), locus walker saying it was a new power(3), and etecetera
(1) Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
(2) "Void form" doesn't seem to be that hard a technique to learn and control, considering shadow priests can do it rather early in their careers.
(3) The "new powers" Locus Walker was referring to was most likely the powers to open portals, as he pointed out, himself, during the fight.

Something that i also called you on in other topics, cute

Because I taught you that concept.

but just because they didn't said she could not transform before, doesn't mean she could,

It also doesn't mean she couldn't.

you are using the other way of the ignorance fallacy of evidence of absence

No, I'm not. The "appeal to ignorance" fallacy means asserting your conclusion as true because there is no evidence to the contrary. Which is what you are doing, by asserting as a fact that Alleria could not transform because she has never did so before eating the fallen naaru. And "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" means that just because there is no evidence to back up a proposition, it does not mean the proposition is false. Want an example? "We have never detected signs of intelligent extra-terrestrial life. Therefore intelligent extra-terrestrial life does not exist".

because you think so

Really? You're going to dismiss canon evidence, now? It's right there, black on white: "Locus-Walker yells: Seize the power of the portals, Alleria! It can become your weapon!"

you hypothesis, based on literally nothing is not "evidence that disproves" anything

You dismissing canon evidence and asserting your own headcanons as fact does not mean my propositions are based on "literally nothing".

- - - Updated - - -

Mostly, but not exclusively, therefore you can not make an argument that they should be exclusive to any one race.

Your fallacy is entirely based on thinking Forsaken can only be exclusively using the human model.

It's not a fallacy when it's a fact that the playable forsaken are humans from Lordaeron. And it's a fact that making a forsaken look like a blood elf completely changes the playable race's visual identity.

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@Ielenia

Again you are not listening I told you about the visual identity, but you clearly have no idea what you are talking about if you dismiss all examples given by multiple posters now.

Those "multiple examples" are either of two races sharing similar silhouettes, which have nothing to do with my argument, the orcs, which still look like an orc, hunched or otherwise, and the worgen, which again doesn't disprove my argument since 9/10 you're a worgen when engaged in the game's content. And 10/10 when you're in combat.

You can even take druids or demon hunter as examples.

Races aren't classes and classes aren't races. And you can still recognize which race the druids and the demon hunters are by looking at their forms.

[Triceron]

It's not a fallacy when it's a fact that the playable forsaken are humans from Lordaeron. And it's a fact that making a forsaken look like a blood elf completely changes the playable race's visual identity.

It is a fallacy that your reasoning assumes Forsaken WILL ALWAYS BE EXCLUSIVELY visually represented as Human. It is a fallacy that you claim races have a FIXED visual identity.

Context, you must remember context of your own argument.

The core problem you are using reasoning and evidence that reaches beyond your subjective opinion that they should stay represented as Humans. One example of your reasoning is that they have always been represented by Forsaken Human, implying they should always be. While this does support your argument, that reasoning also implies it can not be changed and that is simply wrong. It is wrong in context of how Blizzard has relaxed their rules on visual identity AND racial diversity (within a playable race) without stating it publicly. It is wrong in the face of Blizzard diversifying the visual identity of races, such as adding fat and thin humans or trolls that aren't all using the same body type. This absolutely applies to the Forsaken, who are uniquely referred to as a collective and not to any specific race. This is also important to note that the starting zone is now Exiles Reach, and that there are no longer going to be unique starting zones with lore limitations behind them. Sand Trolls can be added as customization because the Troll race is no longer exclusive to being Darkspear Tribesmen.

What you don't understand is we are addressing the reasons you are using, not making a statement ourselves that Blizzard SHOULD open up visual diversity within a race. This is not an attack on your beliefs, it is literally criticizing your understanding of what visual identity really means in WoW today. The context of keeping exclusive visual identity is absolutely meaningless today, by Blizzard's own standards. This is what we are pointing out to you.

The issue is not your belief, the issue is specifically your reasoning is outdated and irrelevant to the changes that Blizzard are making today. The Forsaken have never been exclusive to Humans, the Forsaken are not singularly visually represented by any race (considering we have plenty of non-Human Forsaken NPCS), the Player race Forsaken has customization options that break their silhouettes (Bones, no bones, possible hunch removal in the future). Even the lore states openly that the Forsaken are comprised of a number of different races collectively, which is very unique to them and not to any other playable race in the game. Pointing all of this out is NOT an attack on your beliefs.

Its like if someone said all Orcs shouldn't have straight backs, then that is a belief one can have. However if they say only Thrall can have a straight back because he was raised by humans while other Orcs were not, then that is not a good reason because it doesn't limit or exclude other Orcs from having straight back options. Nothing is wrong with having the opinion to keep Orcs with hunches, but everything is wrong with assuming Thrall can be the only Orc with a straight back because of his unique upbringing. If I point out the fallacy of the reasoning, I am not arguing against the belief that Orcs should keep their hunch exclusively. The point is that being raised by humans has no relevance to Player Orcs having posture customization options. The reasoning is unsound. Since Blizzard has implemented this feature with zero lore explanation, we can infer that Orcs kept a hunched back due to a technical limitations and overlooked customizations, instead of assuming the Orc hunch is a fixed visual identity.

[Alanar]

Races aren't classes and classes aren't races. And you can still recognize which race the druids and the demon hunters are by looking at their forms.

It doesnt matter if you are purely talking about fixed sillhouettes. Being race or class doesnt matter on that front. Your character can even be 100% of the time be an entirely differnt race with toys, so that would be confusing as well of you are refering to visual identity.

Maybe you are just not very clear on what you are refering to. Because a fixed sillhouette is broken when you can change your stance in a barbershop right?

[Yarathir]

1, maybe 2 more patches until blonde hair for Void Elves.

How are you feeling about it?

[Kyriani]

1, maybe 2 more patches until blonde hair for Void Elves.

How are you feeling about it?

I am more concerned about black and white hair myself... though I wouldn't mind a few other colors as well. I'm just not fixated on blonde specifically.

[Varodoc]

They'll give them more hair colours once ALL allied races receive the same amount of attention that core races got. It's a matter of when, not if.

I wonder what the haters will focus on after Void elves have blonde hair... maybe the colour of the lipstick? Or the colour of the in-game racial icons?

[Yarathir]

They'll give them more hair colours once ALL allied races receive the same amount of attention that core races got. It's a matter of when, not if.

I wonder what the haters will focus on after Void elves have blonde hair... maybe the colour of the nail polish? Or the colour of the in-game racial icons?

"nooo you will turn into a blueberry if you enter combat even though most rpers dont enter combat while rping!!!"
"nooo your name will still say VOID elf, it's not real, it's not real!! YOU'RE NOT REAL."

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

You will get your undead elves but they will be Venthyr. Besides, they are glorious. What more could you want from undead elves? A thousand times more interesting than another brand of High Elf.

Not gonna speak for everyone, but... yeah, If we got Venthyr over undead elves, I'm all in. Alternatively, undead/san'layn elves are also popular because as most AR, they are just reskins of existing models, so for most people they are more likely than Venthyr. At the end of the day, most elven variations would simply be more efficient across the board.

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I hope that ends up being the case if Blizzard does decide to go that way. It can be tiring seeing so much arguing back and forth on a topic.

Wanna be hopeful about it, but yeah, I do think how they have revisited the Void Elves from being made purposefully dichotomous to blood elves, to now give them a big overlap of skin tones and eye colors, does suggest a change of philosophy.

The faction war itself can't exist forever on the same form, and maybe a mercenary mode that lifts faction restrictions will happen someday, but who knows.

An Aside about Blood Elves

I really appreciate that there's an overlap between VE and BE where the "Traditional High Elf Fantasy" exists, but I does really make me wish BE's had something more on their end of the spectrum, and while to me that has usually been more undead class unrestricted options, I think I'm also into the idea of bringing fel back to a more prominent place -for example, by reintroducing illidari to BE society- It would bring the Blood Elves full circle just like Legion did with Illidan, with BE players more fel based options not limited to Demon Hunters and most importantly, set up the biggest contrast within a race, between Light Worshipers and Fel users. To actualize Blood Elves both as what they were introduced as and what they became at the end of BC would be swell.

[FossilFree]

If they add Venthyr, I hope they get a Stoneborn form. It could be like a racial version of metamorphosis or if Worgen form was a damage cooldown instead of permanent.

[Edward Wu]

I really hope they add the Maldraxxus gladiator race. I wouldn't mind playing a DK one.