Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Ielenia]

Er, they are dictated by the creator, but our wants and needs are not defined by what the creator gives us.

That's irrelevant, though, considering, once again, I never claimed what one can or cannot give as ideas or suggestions, or can or cannot have as an opinion.

The creator could just as easily listen to the fans desires and have it influence the creative. Opinions are not below or above the canon. Look at the classes we got playable instead of a Tinker. Look at the return of 'dead' characters like Illidan, and likely even thr return of Arthas in Shadowlands. Popular opinion has a direct influence to this creative.

Just below you accuse me of using conjecture, and here you are doing the same. First off: your "tinker" example contradicts your claim, as if it was true, we would have had that class by now. As for the return of Illidan and Arthas, I'll repeat: that is conjecture, because I don't recall Blizzard every saying "back by popular demand".

Because obvious examples are obvious. No one is gonna care if you say Protoss in Azeroth is unlikely, but people are gonna turn heads if you say Anduin getting married is highly unlikely.

How do you know it's not the other way around?

But that is simply conjecture.

Is it, though? Conjecture is making a conclusion based in incomplete data. Are you going to tell me somewhere else in Warcraft there is an area in which the ratio of people meeting AND getting married is so abnormally high that it would skew the probability of Anduin and Taelia getting married just because they met from 'highly unlikely' to 'likely'?

Also you are ignoring rhe presence of a main character, you are only addressing statistics of any two given people, not of major characters.

Because it has no weight. Vol'jin did not get married. Baine did not get married. Jaina did not get married. Bolvar did not get married. Lor'themar did not get married. Etc, etc.

This is like saying no one will beat the next bad guy in Dragonball because the lore said the villain has been undefeated.

That's a misrepresentation since I never said that Anduin and Taelia would never get married. Also, your example does not fit considering that, if the heroes do not defeat the villain, the show ends. If Anduin and Taelia do not get married, WoW does not end.

Intent is not needed to have a discussion. You seem very hung up on only discussing things that are absolutely known, and seem to overlook any 'point' in having discussions of possibility.

I am interested in discussing ideas and suggestions. Find out if they are likely and probable within the lore.

If you aren't interested, why do you go to discussion forums? To use evidence to prove people wrong?

I'm interested in discussing ideas. You're the one shutting down discussion by saying "ideas and suggestions don't need to be discussed".

[Triceron]

That's irrelevant, though, considering, once again, I never claimed what one can or cannot give as ideas or suggestions, or can or cannot have as an opinion.

Yet you can consider them wrong, which is just as bad.

Just below you accuse me of using conjecture, and here you are doing the same. First off: your "tinker" example contradicts your claim, as if it was true, we would have had that class by now. As for the return of Illidan and Arthas, I'll repeat: that is conjecture, because I don't recall Blizzard every saying "back by popular demand".

The difference is I am offering information that has not been considered in your conclusion. I am not framing it as immutable fact or evidence to say it is the only outcome, I am suggesting an idea which can be argued and discussed further. It is not under the guise of trivializing ones opinion with baseless statistics.

My argument is that if you are saying you factor many possibilities then why are you not considering the ones that matter most regarding fiction? Consider these points. It is not a truth I present, but an opinion that you consider them.

Blizzard doesn't have to say 'back by popular demand' any more than they have to exclaim 'Anduin will be getting married'. It's neither here nor there; there is no hard evidence to define what drives the fiction.

You aren't factoring all relevant possibilities; you're defining probabilities based on your subjective choice of evidence. It's inconclusive at best. If you were simply framing an opinion then sure, that is something you can absolutely believe; but the issue is you're not framing it as opinion, you're framing it as lore-driven evidence that defines a certain probability which you have described as 'above opinion'.

Is it, though? Conjecture is making a conclusion based in incomplete data. Are you going to tell me somewhere else in Warcraft there is an area in which the ratio of people meeting AND getting married is so abnormally high that it would skew the probability of Anduin and Taelia getting married just because they met from 'highly unlikely' to 'likely'?

I would tell you the chance is for anything happening in fiction is not exclusively based on statistics garnered from 'fictional history'.

I would say its conjecture because your conclusion is based on incomplete information. It is not wrong, but it is concluded using a narrow opinion.

Such as looking at sharks in WoW, seeing them swim in deep waters and concluding that they must live in water like real fish do. If that were all the information available to you then concluding that isn't wrong, but short-sighted because you did not investigate whether or not they truly do, nor explored the possibilities of the framework of this fictional world. No investigation of sharks living elsewhere, simply a conclusion based on your observation of them being where they are.

In the magical world of Warcraft, we have flying sharks, and sharks that live in the Dalaran Sewers up in the air. The fiction is not bound to realism.

And if we consider the fiction and the possibilities, then it's not simply a matter of being 'highly unlikely that Sharks can fly' due to statistics. The chance isn't highly unlikely simply due to the fact this is a magical world that is peppered with pop culture references and memes alike that make things like this not only possible, but plausible.

Because it has no weight. Vol'jin did not get married. Baine did not get married. Jaina did not get married. Bolvar did not get married. Lor'themar did not get married. Etc, etc.

Not 'did not', 'have not'. You can only address this as truth if the fiction has completely stopped and we regard these as unchanging facts. We can regard Lord of the Rings this way because the canon is no longer worked on.

WoW is not this. It is progressive and these things may still happen in the future. That they aren't already married is not an example that they never will.

Also Bolvar did not get married? We don't know the exact state of his relationship to Taelia's mother.

That's a misrepresentation since I never said that Anduin and Taelia would never get married. Also, your example does not fit considering that, if the heroes do not defeat the villain, the show ends. If Anduin and Taelia do not get married, WoW does not end.

You drew a conclusion based on statistics which willingly ignored other factors. Your purpose could be argued as being dismissive.

If someone were presenting a suggestion and this is what your reply tries to trivialize the discussion using arbitrary statistics to define a low probability, your intentions could be considered confusing or insulting. You aren't openly providing a counter opinion, you're simply bringing up statistics in an argument that trivializes a person's opinion, possibly even rendering it 'pointless' (within the context of lore). Yet as I said before, these are arbitrary standards since opinion is not bound to abiding lore.

I am interested in discussing ideas and suggestions. Find out if they are likely and probable within the lore.

If you are proving other peoples opinions wrong then you aren't discussing ideas and suggestions, you are just trivializing those opinions.

Opinions aren't wrong just because they don't follow your interpretation of the lore.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

You know, admire the passion, but you guys are such a drag holy shit.

[Ielenia]

<snip>

I have a lot to say about everything you wrote, I agree with almost none of it, but this has gone wholly off-topic, so I'm stopping here.

[Traycor]

While Void Elves do seem to be kicking around some, the overwhelming majority I see have switched their cosmetics to High Elves. To the point that I'm almost surprised now when some have void options. It's pretty obvious which one is more popular.

[Vaedan]

While Void Elves do seem to be kicking around some, the overwhelming majority I see have switched their cosmetics to High Elves. To the point that I'm almost surprised now when some have void options. It's pretty obvious which one is more popular.

Well, I changed my priest to look more quel'dorei. Since priests use void, I don't really feel my void racials are hurting my high elf fantasy. On my void elf rogue, I stick with void elf fantasy.

[BaumanKing]

While Void Elves do seem to be kicking around some, the overwhelming majority I see have switched their cosmetics to High Elves. To the point that I'm almost surprised now when some have void options. It's pretty obvious which one is more popular.

I also see a lot of void elves with normal skin colors, but with tentacles, which is kinda weird. Also, as with Alleria, the Entropic Embrace proc works really great with normal skins as a visual contrast. I never liked the idea of bluish elves becoming even more bluer. And yes, my subtlety rogue now looks more like a quel'dorei, but velves racials only enhance his shadow abilities.

[Varodoc]

While Void Elves do seem to be kicking around some, the overwhelming majority I see have switched their cosmetics to High Elves. To the point that I'm almost surprised now when some have void options. It's pretty obvious which one is more popular.

I mean, because those options should have been available from the start.

Alleria Windrunner, leader of the Ren'dorei, is a Void elf who retains her fair skin form.

Make no mistake, fair skin forms remain part of the Ren'dorei identity, and have always been.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I also see a lot of void elves with normal skin colors, but with tentacles, which is kinda weird. Also, as with Alleria, the Entropic Embrace proc works really great with normal skins as a visual contrast. I never liked the idea of bluish elves becoming even more bluer. And yes, my subtlety rogue now looks more like a quel'dorei, but velves racials only enhance his shadow abilities.

For a lot of us we kinda are just stuck with them and pretend they are not there. We could really use some more hair options :P

Specially poignant for those who have TRP or XRP and change their race tag to High Elf/Quel'dorei

I mean, because those options should have been available from the start.

Alleria Windrunner, leader of the Ren'dorei, is a Void elf who retains her fair skin form.

Make no mistake, fair skin forms remain part of the Ren'dorei identity, and have always been.

I mean unless the player has TRP/XRP, whether their intent to portray a VE or a HE is rather speculative on either part. Sure some people want to be normal skinned VE's, but would be disingenuous to say all VE characters with fair skin are meant to be so, when VE's were widely criticized for both their subpar introduction and apparent replacement of HE's; a lot of people already considered their VE's as HE's.

As much as Void Elves and High Elves now overlap aesthetically wise -such as with Alleria- let's not dismiss the fact that people have been always vocal about having something closer to the HE fantasy.

[Kyriani]

I also see a lot of void elves with normal skin colors, but with tentacles, which is kinda weird. Also, as with Alleria, the Entropic Embrace proc works really great with normal skins as a visual contrast. I never liked the idea of bluish elves becoming even more bluer. And yes, my subtlety rogue now looks more like a quel'dorei, but velves racials only enhance his shadow abilities.

I think the fact that you're seeing a lot with the new skin tones but tentacle hair can simply be attributed to the fact that Void Elves have few hairstyles to begin with. There are 10 for female (not including bald), and 12 for male (not including bald). Of the 10 female hairstyles only 4 do not have tentacles. And of the 12 male hairstyles only 6 do not have tentacles, and two of those seem less popular than the others (top row #3 and bottom row #1 seem less frequently used on my server).



And not for nothing but many of the tentacle hairstyles for the females are really stylish and attractive even with the tentacles so it could simply be people picking what they like. That's what I did with my Warlock who has dark brown skin, red tentacle hair, and pupil-less cyan colored eyes.


(tentacles on the back of that hairstyle)

[Varodoc]

I think the tentacle hair with fair skin options look very pleasing aesthetically. They remind me of Sarah Kerrigan's appearance after she was de-infested. She looks like a normal human, yet she has zerg hair, which indicates that she was infested.

Same thing here. To the unaware, you look like a normal elf. But to those who pay attention, the tentacle, void-y hair gives away the secret of the Void elves. It's a very intriguing character concept and has countless RP possibilities.

[FossilFree]

Tentacles should become a toggle like the new draenei face tendrils did. Then you'd have a bunch of new options for hairstyles (that currently have them) to go without them, plus you could add them to the ones that don't currently have them too.

[Vaedan]

I think the tentacle hair with fair skin options look very pleasing aesthetically. They remind me of Sarah Kerrigan's appearance after she was de-infested. She looks like a normal human, yet she has zerg hair, which indicates that she was infested.

Same thing here. To the unaware, you look like a normal elf. But to those who pay attention, the tentacle, void-y hair gives away the secret of the Void elves. It's a very intriguing character concept and has countless RP possibilities.

That is actually quite good idea. I like that idea of being a void elf whose initial void corruption diminished, but he still maintains his void given powers. Now, I wonder if we will get full tentacle hair to make true Kerrigan lookalike It could look like slightly modified dreadlock hairstyle humans got recently.

Tentacles should become a toggle like the new draenei face tendrils did. Then you'd have a bunch of new options for hairstyles (that currently have them) to go without them, plus you could add them to the ones that don't currently have them too.

With core races getting option to customize tendrils, tails, eyes, moustaches and beards separately, I think separate tentacle option for void elves is inevitable. We just need to wait.

[Varodoc]

That is actually quite good idea. I like that idea of being a void elf whose initial void corruption diminished, but he still maintains his void given powers. Now, I wonder if we will get full tentacle hair to make true Kerrigan lookalike It could look like slightly modified dreadlock hairstyle humans got recently.



With core races getting option to customize tendrils, tails, eyes, moustaches and beards separately, I think separate tentacle option for void elves is inevitable. We just need to wait.

Yes, It would be very good to have this hairstyle, but with astral tentacles instead:

[Traycor]

Tentacles should become a toggle like the new draenei face tendrils did. Then you'd have a bunch of new options for hairstyles (that currently have them) to go without them, plus you could add them to the ones that don't currently have them too.

Whole bunch of yes to that! Tentacle toggle to change them into braids would rock (even just turn them into normal locks of hair). Either way, a toggle would dramatically increase the available number of hairstyles if you don't want tentacles.

Of course, it would also be nice to have some non-goth hairstyles. These could be pulled from humans and Kul Tirans so the blood elf players don't feel poached.

[shoc]

You know, admire the passion, but you guys are such a drag holy shit.

Problem is that people are whining about the lack of features when Allied Race customization updates haven't even happened yet.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Problem is that people are whining about the lack of features when Allied Race customization updates haven't even happened yet.

Gonna be honest chief, at one point I wasn't sure what they were even arguing about -like on page 3 of their argument- lol

Whole bunch of yes to that! Tentacle toggle to change them into braids would rock (even just turn them into normal locks of hair). Either way, a toggle would dramatically increase the available number of hairstyles if you don't want tentacles.

Of course, it would also be nice to have some non-goth hairstyles. These could be pulled from humans and Kul Tirans so the blood elf players don't feel poached.

This x100! I have already shared my mock ups for that before, but a braid toggle would really be an awesome way of dealing with the tentacles. Even so, a far more cost efficient on/off tentacle toggle would be enough!

At the end of the day VE's -and AR wholesale- just have way fewer hairstyles than core races now :/ So I really hope they add more than just three. IMO, a good option would be to make AR and origin CR* share hairstyles -so let's say, Maghar get all the Orc hairstyles and vice versa)

*To keep the distinction between VE/NE and NB/NE, they could instead swap hairstyles with the race they are closer in their faction. NB could get the Blood Elf hairstyles and vice versa, and VE could get either human -if we consider that are the race they are closer since we see them on Stormwind- or Night Elf -because they are closer kin wise-

[Kyriani]

Are you still playing WoW Tal? Or did you swap servers or something? I tried pulling up your armory to see your transmog but I only got an error when I tried.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Are you still playing WoW Tal? Or did you swap servers or something? I tried pulling up your armory to see your transmog but I only got an error when I tried.

Oh I transferred the char and changed the name! Wasn't really feeling Tal as a character -part of the reason why I used him on forums, he didn't have much of a background and kinda was a throwaway alt for bag making purposes lol- now he looks like this!



My ally main has been my Helf warrior since VE's are playable -used to be a paladin hehe-

[Kyriani]

Ah Thanks for sharing the mog appearance! Looks great!

Here's my own "High Elf" Warrior. I'm holding out hope for a tentacle toggle because I really like his hairstyle but the tentacles kind of throw off the look: