Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Tanaria]

What you guys are failing to see is that no matter how insane you pretend I am or accuse me of being, I'm not a lone voice on this. The mere fact that I am saying this means that there are many others who are thinking it, many of which wouldn't say these things on forums because of people like Tanaria, and co, who would swamp them with criticism and b/s arguments in order to protect their precious elves on the horde faction that don't fit them at all. They'd just leave, and not say anything meanwhile it would seem that the community agrees with Tanaria and co, when actually it doesn't, they've just created their own echo chamber and driven others out with their aggressive dogma. And if blizzard can't see through that, they'd continue to make erroneous decisions because they can't ascertain what the fans really care about. Only the loud mouths.

So fine, let me be the one that takes all your ire, I can handle it, i neither care to be reputable with you nor amicable, I care for the truth, and I will state things how I perceive it.

Elves on the horde is bad for the game, elves better on the horde than the alliance should not be the case, build the elves mainly on the alliance and diminish them on the horde, replacing what they lose with boosts to core horde races will help faction numbers, will fix horde identity issues and crisis, and will make a happier and better community.

The horde elf fan base are the only ones that would cry hard about this, half of them will switch tot he alliance, which is what you want anyway, as it will boost he alliance numbers, the other s would be a tiny minority, they will still have access to blood elves and Nightborne, and really only have their reason to brag or feel superior removed form them. It's a small price to pay.. most of the horde will appreciate the trolls and orcs made more prominent to make up for the diminishing of the elves, it will feel like the horde again, and the alliance would also be happy because the elves they've loved so much and desired are now been shown brightly on their faction.

The majority of the warcraft players especially the older ones and the new ones, the fantasy ones drawn to the game for it's similarities to LotR will all love this better, the themes and direction of the factions will feel more distinct and separate with the elves promoted on the alliance entirely.

it will solve a lot of issues and distortion that the theme, faction and races as well as the game are facing. And you will never see topics like this arise.

Your opinion once again. You have no proof of this.
Plus you are irrelevant. You don't dictate what should be happening to my two favorites races. You are nothing short of, delusional who believes his own headcanons.

[ravenmoon]

It isn't because your in denial about the main issue regarding the Alliance. This is brought up by Alliance fans themselves...it's the "Humans and Friends" lore. "Humans and Sidekicks." That's what Blizzard have done. You are completely in denial.

I have brought the human problem up, and why it is a problem, and there isn't just one issue to what's wrong with the alliance but they're all connected.

No one is much interested in dwarves , draenei, gnomes and worgen, well a few people are, the interesting races for the bulk of alliance fans are humans and elves, but with the elves mainly and better promoted on the horde, that leaves only the humans worth any traction on the alliance, making them even more boring, and hence why people complain, about too uch human stuff.. What do you think they want to replace human focus with? Dwarves and Gnomes? (well some do) but most want High elves and Night elves - yes, Quel'thalas, highborne, Moonguard, Kaldorei sentinels and wardens, the fantasy of all of hte Kaldorei and all of the Thalassians - whether nature or arcane night wielders under the stars, or the glorious sun kingdom of the high home. They are more interested in that than space goats and dwarves, though some are really into that too, so we mustn't entirely ignore those either.

It should be quite clear by all the high elf topics on every wow forum and night elf topics constantly on about the injustice of the Nightborne going horde that ALliance fans deeply care for high elves and night elves a lot more than they care for Draenei, Dwarves, Gnomes, Worgen or Pandas, and to deny that is just blinding yourself from the truth and will do you know good to pretend it isn't the case.

Use the truth to understand what is wrong, and fix the problem. I repeat:


Elves on the horde is bad for the game, elves better on the horde than the alliance should not be the case, build the elves mainly on the alliance and diminish them on the horde, replacing what they lose with boosts to core horde races will help faction numbers, will fix horde identity issues and crisis, and will make a happier and better community.

The horde elf fan base are the only ones that would cry hard about this, half of them will switch tot he alliance, which is what you want anyway, as it will boost he alliance numbers, the other s would be a tiny minority, they will still have access to blood elves and Nightborne, and really only have their reason to brag or feel superior removed form them. It's a small price to pay.. most of the horde will appreciate the trolls and orcs made more prominent to make up for the diminishing of the elves, it will feel like the horde again, and the alliance would also be happy because the elves they've loved so much and desired are now been shown brightly on their faction.

The majority of the warcraft players especially the older ones and the new ones, the fantasy ones drawn to the game for it's similarities to LotR will all love this better, the themes and direction of the factions will feel more distinct and separate with the elves promoted on the alliance entirely.

it will solve a lot of issues and distortion that the theme, faction and races as well as the game are facing. And you will never see topics like this arise.

[Rhlor]

I don't think MywholeLifeIsThunder realises my planet is no more real than the Azeroth he talks so confidently about.

I think your horde elf bias is really blinding you from seeing the truth of what I'm saying. you are offended because you don't like it. Yet it is what is best for the horde and the game, and also for the alliance. An alliance race should never have been brought on to the horde, it has distorted it badly and hurt the alliance. It seemed justifiable at first to help boost horde numbers, but the distortion has gotten worse as the bias continues long after the need for even numbers.

But sometimes habits are hard to break, and a habit of favouring the horde is definitely been in blizzard. Sooner or later they will see this. It might seem unfair and nasty but it isn't. Blizzard know that the elves returning to being strong and vibrant on the alliance can help the horde a lot more.

Losing things like Silvermoon and Suramar are not losses when gains like Zul'drak and Zul'Aman, Zul'farak and Zul'gurub as well a s boosting other horde race assets can easily make up for the numerical losses. It's about keeping and restoring the core themes of both the alliance and the horde. And glorious horde elves does not do that, nor is it needed.

It's got to go, you know this is needed, you just want horde bragging rights over alliance elf fans and have enjoyed having things they find enviable, it's been a little kick to you and I suspect it's what you don't wanna lose, but it's a silly reason you want to hold on to it for, very superficial and vain. You know this is true, call me selfish, unfair, greedy, nasty - you know I'm not being any of these things. you just don't like what I'm saying because you want this stuff to remain on the horde, no other reason, not because it's true or real.

i repeat

You say you want to ruin the elf content of the horde to increase the numbers of the alliance, but in general the numbers of players of the horde and the alliance are even. the disparity is found in mythics and competitive players prefer racials to aesthetics, if you want the numbers of players in the alliance to increase in endgame you have to give the alliance racials that are better than those of the horde.
you only resent that the horde have things you want, that is to be envious and greedy

[Tanaria]

I have brought the human problem up, and why it is a problem, and there isn't just one issue to what's wrong with the alliance but they're all connected.

No one is much interested in dwarves , draenei, gnomes and worgen, well a few people are, the interesting races for the bulk of alliance fans are humans and elves, but with the elves mainly and better promoted on the horde, that leaves only the humans worth any traction on the alliance, making them even more boring, and hence why people complain, about too uch human stuff.. What do you think they want to replace human focus with? Dwarves and Gnomes? (well some do) but most want High elves and Night elves - yes, Quel'thalas, highborne, Moonguard, Kaldorei sentinels and wardens, the fantasy of all of hte Kaldorei and all of the Thalassians - whether nature or arcane night wielders under the stars, or the glorious sun kingdom of the high home. They are more interested in that than space goats and dwarves, though some are really into that too, so we mustn't entirely ignore those either.

It should be quite clear by all the high elf topics on every wow forum and night elf topics constantly on about the injustice of the Nightborne going horde that ALliance fans deeply care for high elves and night elves a lot more than they care for Draenei, Dwarves, Gnomes, Worgen or Pandas, and to deny that is just blinding yourself from the truth and will do you know good to pretend it isn't the case.

Use the truth to understand what is wrong, and fix the problem. I repeat:


Elves on the horde is bad for the game, elves better on the horde than the alliance should not be the case, build the elves mainly on the alliance and diminish them on the horde, replacing what they lose with boosts to core horde races will help faction numbers, will fix horde identity issues and crisis, and will make a happier and better community.

The horde elf fan base are the only ones that would cry hard about this, half of them will switch tot he alliance, which is what you want anyway, as it will boost he alliance numbers, the other s would be a tiny minority, they will still have access to blood elves and Nightborne, and really only have their reason to brag or feel superior removed form them. It's a small price to pay.. most of the horde will appreciate the trolls and orcs made more prominent to make up for the diminishing of the elves, it will feel like the horde again, and the alliance would also be happy because the elves they've loved so much and desired are now been shown brightly on their faction.

The majority of the warcraft players especially the older ones and the new ones, the fantasy ones drawn to the game for it's similarities to LotR will all love this better, the themes and direction of the factions will feel more distinct and separate with the elves promoted on the alliance entirely.

it will solve a lot of issues and distortion that the theme, faction and races as well as the game are facing. And you will never see topics like this arise.

I don't buy into small people on forums, being jealous of the Horde's Elves. I especially don't care for you, since you've quit and won't be coming back. And I'm thankful that Blizzard will NEVER give you want you want.

You can have your precious High Elves and Night Elves...your just not getting Silvermoon or Suramar. You can have a district in Stormwind with your Human overlords, whilst the Sin'dorei and Shal'dorei continue living in their cities, that rightfully belong to them.

[ravenmoon]

Your opinion once again. You have no proof of this.
Plus you are irrelevant. You don't dictate what should be happening to my two favorites races. You are nothing short of, delusional who believes his own headcanons.

Whatever, yeh yeh, cry i have no proof of this as some sort of evidence that none of this is true or credible. If blizzard actually think so, they're kidding themselves just as you are, and falling victim to promoting their own preferences over what is better and more desired for their fans and their faction theme and game balance.

but hey, if they have the numbers, and filter out the horde elf fan zealots, they'd probably quickly find out far many more different alliance fans from all sources have commented and asked for the same thing, and will also observe guys like you have driven them away by your badgering and bullying, making them feel like their opinions aren't valid and are far from the truth with your opinions that have no proof either.

but if blizzard don't want to see what's really going on with their own game to improve it and make it better, then that's on them, they will continue to put off people with their bad lore and imbalanced factions, and their game will be unpleasant a lot on one faction, it might boost a few faction transfers, but it will actually just kill the game for many fans like myself.

You don't have to be into the lore to feel the diminishing quality of playing on the alliance because the numbers and interest isn't there, whether you're into elves or not, it becomes sour and eventually you'd likely leave than dish out money to faction change, and even if you do, faction change, it would be one more annoyance at the company for failing to rectify the issue and forcing you to change just to play the game. The repercussions go well beyond lore. It also affects theme. The horde theme is muddled, what are they? they use to be clearly defined in WC3 and classic, no t so after the blood elves joined and became a major elven bastion..on the horde...

Fine the horde needed the numbers, but they got them, and continued to grow, and yet they gave them more alliance elf race stuff, including the kaldorei and the distortion just keeps growing, alliance forced to largely humans, because the best changes for the kaldorei are crippled with the ancient home and world on the broken isle going horde, and the Thalassians are instead given void elves a sub-par version of what the alliance really wanted. And you wonder why alliance is bleeding numbers, and people continue to write in topics like this and tell blizzard this is not fair or good.

Yet you feel you just grandly stepping in telling them it's fine and it's good for the horde to have elven alliance stuff better on it, is just fine and the alliance should be happy with whatever they got so that the horde doesn't lose elven stuff it doesn't need and doesn't belong there.. yeh..right.

[Tanaria]

Yet you feel you just grandly stepping in telling them it's fine and it's good for the horde to have elven alliance stuff better on it, is just fine and the alliance should be happy with whatever they got so that the horde doesn't lose elven stuff it doesn't need and doesn't belong there.. yeh..right.

Blood Elves and Nightborne were never Alliance. You'd know that if you'd follow the lore and not their models.

You don't know the lore and you are nothing short of a small child, having a massive temper tantrum in the shop because mummy told you "no, you can't have those sweets."

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

For fecks say stop engaging him; do yoy know how many threads this guy has ruined?

[Tanaria]

For fecks say stop engaging him; do yoy know how many threads this guy has ruined?

I'd love to know why or how he hasn't faced being banned yet?

[ravenmoon]

I don't buy into small people on forums, being jealous of the Horde's Elves. I especially don't care for you, since you've quit and won't be coming back. And I'm thankful that Blizzard will NEVER give you want you want.

You can have your precious High Elves and Night Elves...your just not getting Silvermoon or Suramar. You can have a district in Stormwind with your Human overlords, whilst the Sin'dorei and Shal'dorei continue living in their cities, that rightfully belong to them.

Aww thank you for allowing me to have high elves and night elves oh decider and purveyor of all things elven, or please would you permit me to have Silvermoon and Suramar too...please? I know that i can't have these without your express permission and blessing, so I beseech you or elf decider and creator

Yes, I'm completely alone in this, a small minded man who's the only one wanting this, I single handedly masterminded and drove a 1148 page forum topic with over 22,900 responses, and did the same on every other warcraft forum online. because I'm the only one that wants the horde stuff and I'm just greedy for things that don't belong to the alliance, but tot he horde... /end sarcasm

You deny what's right infront of you, you are told out right that elves are not horde races, and most alliance fans do not view them as such, you may have decided to accept them as such, but most have not, and most see they do not fit the horde.

what do Elves, blood or Nightborne have in common with orcs, Trolls, Tauren, goblins, Pandas? I mean seriously.. ANYONE can see this, but you choose to deny it and claim they are horde races that belong there, and wonder why you have tens of thousands to 100,000s of response all over the internet on the topic that disagree and feel otherwise, including this very one we are on.

Yet I'm the one that's small and isolated. I don't really care what you think of me, but it's sounding a little bit ridiculous you denying how alliance fans feel and what it appears to them and what it actually appears to anyone - Elves fit the alliance, not the horde.

Blizz should fix the imbalance by quit promoting them on the horde and return to doing so on the alliance.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd love to know why or how he hasn't faced being banned yet?

Your powers waning or great one? Surprised not liking or agreeing with what someone says is not a bannable offence? Ah, so if you can't win in an argument or drown out voices you don't agree with by bullying like you've done to many others, you try to get them banned, all to snuff out voices you don't agree with.

[Imperator4321]

The majority of the warcraft players especially the older ones and the new ones, the fantasy ones drawn to the game for it's similarities to LotR will all love this better, the themes and direction of the factions will feel more distinct and separate with the elves promoted on the alliance entirely.

it will solve a lot of issues and distortion that the theme, faction and races as well as the game are facing. And you will never see topics like this arise.[/B]

Believe it or not Warcraft actually had some novel concepts in the world and storytelling, Like Orc's not being inherently evil monster fodder, other monster races being misunderstood and outcasts. Blood Elves (the high elf archetype of WoW) being aligned with typical monster races was another somewhat strange and new concept that in the context of the universe and the story told made sense, just because you can't see beyond the superfical aspects (that the blood elves are pretty) doesn't mean they don't fit the Horde.

The Night elves aren't even the High Elf archetype of WoW, they're a combination of Wood Elves (in general culture) and Drow/Dark Elves (appearance, gender dynamics and devotion to a singular goddess) i'm not sure how you can look at Suramar an urban city where nature isn't allowed to grow freely and think "ah yes this city definitely fits the Night Elves".

The Void Elves are also exiled outcasts transformed by dark otherworldly powers how does a bright shining city like Silvermoon fit them at all?

[Tanaria]

You deny what's right infront of you, you are told out right that elves are not horde races, and most alliance fans do not view them as such, you may have decided to accept them as such, but most have not, and most see they do not fit the horde.

what do Elves, blood or Nightborne have in common with orcs, Trolls, Tauren, goblins, Pandas? I mean seriously.. ANYONE can see this, but you choose to deny it and claim they are horde races that belong there, and wonder why you have tens of thousands to 100,000s of response all over the internet on the topic that disagree and feel otherwise, including this very one we are on.

Yet I'm the one that's small and isolated. I don't really care what you think of me, but it's sounding a little bit ridiculous you denying how alliance fans feel and what it appears to them and what it actually appears to anyone - Elves fit the alliance, not the horde.

Blizz should fix the imbalance by quit promoting them on the horde and return to doing so on the alliance.

Because I don't couldn't care less for minority of selfish and greedy Alliance fans, who act like Gollum. You don't deserve to have current Horde things. That includes, Blood Elves, Nightborne, Silvermoon and Suramar.

Don't bother replying, as I'm blocking you. As far as I'm now concerned, you have been silenced and I will preach about how grand Suramar and Silvermoon are and how they are still on the Horde. Lok'tar - for the Horde!

[Rhlor]

Whatever, yeh yeh, cry i have no proof of this as some sort of evidence that none of this is true or credible. If blizzard actually think so, they're kidding themselves just as you are, and falling victim to promoting their own preferences over what is better and more desired for their fans and their faction theme and game balance.

but hey, if they have the numbers, and filter out the horde elf fan zealots, they'd probably quickly find out far many more different alliance fans from all sources have commented and asked for the same thing, and will also observe guys like you have driven them away by your badgering and bullying, making them feel like their opinions aren't valid and are far from the truth with your opinions that have no proof either.

but if blizzard don't want to see what's really going on with their own game to improve it and make it better, then that's on them, they will continue to put off people with their bad lore and imbalanced factions, and their game will be unpleasant a lot on one faction, it might boost a few faction transfers, but it will actually just kill the game for many fans like myself.

You don't have to be into the lore to feel the diminishing quality of playing on the alliance because the numbers and interest isn't there, whether you're into elves or not, it becomes sour and eventually you'd likely leave than dish out money to faction change, and even if you do, faction change, it would be one more annoyance at the company for failing to rectify the issue and forcing you to change just to play the game. The repercussions go well beyond lore. It also affects theme. The horde theme is muddled, what are they? they use to be clearly defined in WC3 and classic, no t so after the blood elves joined and became a major elven bastion..on the horde...

Fine the horde needed the numbers, but they got them, and continued to grow, and yet they gave them more alliance elf race stuff, including the kaldorei and the distortion just keeps growing, alliance forced to largely humans, because the best changes for the kaldorei are crippled with the ancient home and world on the broken isle going horde, and the Thalassians are instead given void elves a sub-par version of what the alliance really wanted. And you wonder why alliance is bleeding numbers, and people continue to write in topics like this and tell blizzard this is not fair or good.

Yet you feel you just grandly stepping in telling them it's fine and it's good for the horde to have elven alliance stuff better on it, is just fine and the alliance should be happy with whatever they got so that the horde doesn't lose elven stuff it doesn't need and doesn't belong there.. yeh..right.

I'll say it one more time, the population numbers of the horde and the alliance are generally even. Only mythics exists difference, if what you want is to increase the population of the alliance in mythics what you have to do is to give better racials to the alliance.

But in reality you are not interested in increasing the endgame population of the alliance, it only bothers you that the horde has content that you want.

[Oswen]

I predicted Nightborne going to the Horde way before Allied Race were a thing, they have a very dark elf feel without having to be sadistic and cruel, they actually are a very good fit for the faction even more than modern Blood Elves are.
The same could be said for Alleria's return and "her" high elves, noone could see the Void twist coming though and, to be honest, that turned out better than expected despite their horrible out of the blue introduction.

Suramar being Horde is actually a good thing, the only thing the Alliance should feel cheated on is how they were basically forced to help them for an entire expansion just to receive a slap in the face in the end but that's on Blizzard and not the Horde.
They clearly tried to do a reverse situation with Mechagon but eh, not on the same level and nobody really care for Mechagnomes anyway, I barely see any around.

I agree that the Alliance is losing some pieces for no good reason but Suramar and Silvermoon aren't what anyone should focus on.
Dalaran flipflopping is irritating for all for example, it was a human kingdom and should have been left as such.
Dalaran being the Legion capital for the Alliance and Suramar being the one for the Horde would have worked so much better, without leaving any bad feeling in the end for one side.
The Silver Hand, the NE-Cenarion Circle, heroes like Khadgar going neutral are what shouldn't happen but alas, it keeps happening again and again with the Alliance and I can understand that's not very fun but well, our Horde heroes tend to go crazy and need to be put down every odd expansion so eh, maybe it's not that bad in the end.

Blood Elves were indeed forced into the Horde for marketing reasons but the ship has long sailed, leave Silvermoon alone and hope it becomes a way less boring place in the future, like it was back in TBC when BE actually had that whole "survival at all cost" theme which is what most Horde races have going for them.
Focus on reclaiming the fang and claws of the NE without blaming humans or other things for the their neutering, focus on Alliance High Elves transitioning into Void Elves and them building a stronger identity because the potential is there.

And let's be honest, would the Alliance really want Silvermoon and the BE back?
They are probably the most hypocrite of all the elves, blaming human for the action of a single individual which had nothing to do with Stormwind, some badly made quests in their starting zone (to this day we still don't know what the night elves were doing there and who sent them) and sweeping under the rug the fact that the Alliance saves them every other day of the week, even restoring their precious Sunwell, when they were enemies, for nothing in return.
All of this while supporting multiple genocidal regimes in the Horde and partecipating in one atrocity after another while still whining about Arthas and Sylvanas and the Scourge, Teldrassil being the most recent elephant in the room.

Nah, leave them be I say, focus on your elves and fight for better races in the future, those guys are stuck with us.

[Vaedan]

Your a failure at lore. Why should anyone take you seriously.

Well, while I agree with you that his claims that Horde elves should be merged into the Alliance are extreme and will never happen (and it is not even necessary), I can't take you seriously on most matter either. You accuse him of bias (rightfully so), painting it as such a bad thing, yet you are also heavily biased and you even proudly display your bias. It is not bad to have favorites, everybody does... but don't be a hypocrite and don't blame others from what you are doing yourself.

Your a meme because the lore is explained to you, but all you care about is the elf models.
And you are greedy, nasty, selfish and unfair. You really are. These races, those cities - they belong on the Horde. That is where they are and that is where they will be staying. Blizzard will not have these cities be lost to the Alliance...especially not to weak races like nelfs and helfs. Nelfs couldn't even take Azshara and that was before Sylvanas burned the tree.

I'm not sure if you are just trying to provoke Ravenmoon by intentional cherrypicking, or if you are failing the lore yourself too. You know, highlighting only certain parts of the story without larger context can be used on the Horde too.

Blood elves are so weak race. They can't even reclaim their homeland, which is still scourge infested as seen in Three Sisters, so pretty loooooong after Lich King was defeated and Scourge severly weakened. During Amani crisis, they were so weak they had to invite other weaklings to help them.

Nightborne are such a weak race. We raided them and crushed them to dust even when they were empowered by Nightwell. They can't even stand on their own without the help from the Horde. What a failure.

See? Your horde elves are pretty much the same weakling as you claim alliance elves to be.

Suramar and Silvermoon are remaining on the Horde and all those Troll places...they belong to Trolls who aren't even part of the Horde. Nightborne and Blood elves, with their cities, are fully fledged Horde members and the Alliance has failed in the lore, to win these cities and their populations, round.

Ravenmoon have a point that aesteticaly, they are actually closer to the Alliance. Horde elves break Horde's aestetic integrity by bringing high culture to the faction defined mostly by their tribal themes and more rugged assets. It can be good or bad thing, it just depends on your point of view. I actually don't really like it, so most of my Horde characters are not elves, since I don't really feel I fit in the faction. I will not deny others may feel different about it, and it is ok.

Well, for gameplay reasons, they will certainly remain Horde. For lore reasons, blood elves have no solid reason to stick with the Horde anymore. Given their history of leaving factions the minute they outlived their need for them, I wonder what special Horde has to offer to the Quel'thalas. Thalassians always put their nation above all others. We have not seen any real contribution from the Horde to well-being of Quel'thalas since... TBC? Even then, it was mostly provided by Sylvanas and the Forsaken. On the other hand, Horde dragged blood elves into numerous conflicts, resulting in further loses on sin'dorei population, yet they did not bother even send reinforcements to Ghostlands in times of Amani Crisis, or did not help blood elves reclaim Ghostlands. So I'm actually pretty interested what make your elf characters so happy about the Horde?

It seems to me that the best thing blood elves could do is to officialy leave Horde and remain neutral (which means not joining the Alliance), invite all high elves back to Quel'thalas to let them help their nation and gave them opportunity to deal with problems in their homeland, after decades they were contributing to either Alliance or Horde efforts... but as I said, gameplay reasons make this impossible.

[FossilFree]

Ravenmoon have a point that aesteticaly, they are actually closer to the Alliance. Horde elves break Horde's aestetic integrity by bringing high culture to the faction defined mostly by their tribal themes and more rugged assets. It can be good or bad thing, it just depends on your point of view. I actually don't really like it, so most of my Horde characters are not elves, since I don't really feel I fit in the faction. I will not deny others may feel different about it, and it is ok.

Well, for gameplay reasons, they will certainly remain Horde. For lore reasons, blood elves have no solid reason to stick with the Horde anymore. Given their history of leaving factions the minute they outlived their need for them, I wonder what special Horde has to offer to the Quel'thalas. Thalassians always put their nation above all others. We have not seen any real contribution from the Horde to well-being of Quel'thalas since... TBC? Even then, it was mostly provided by Sylvanas and the Forsaken. On the other hand, Horde dragged blood elves into numerous conflicts, resulting in further loses on sin'dorei population, yet they did not bother even send reinforcements to Ghostlands in times of Amani Crisis, or did not help blood elves reclaim Ghostlands. So I'm actually pretty interested what make your elf characters so happy about the Horde?

It seems to me that the best thing blood elves could do is to officialy leave Horde and remain neutral (which means not joining the Alliance), invite all high elves back to Quel'thalas to let them help their nation and gave them opportunity to deal with problems in their homeland, after decades they were contributing to either Alliance or Horde efforts... but as I said, gameplay reasons make this impossible.

The Horde became the Red Alliance in TBC. I think that if they really didn't want Blood Elves on Alliance, they should have made them a third faction with Naga and Broken. It would have made more sense and followed The Frozen Throne WC3 expansion lore.

[Ardenaso]

Blood Elves were indeed forced into the Horde for marketing reasons but the ship has long sailed, leave Silvermoon alone and hope it becomes a way less boring place in the future, like it was back in TBC when BE actually had that whole "survival at all cost" theme which is what most Horde races have going for them.
Focus on reclaiming the fang and claws of the NE without blaming humans or other things for the their neutering, focus on Alliance High Elves transitioning into Void Elves and them building a stronger identity because the potential is there.

And let's be honest, would the Alliance really want Silvermoon and the BE back?
They are probably the most hypocrite of all the elves, blaming human for the action of a single individual which had nothing to do with Stormwind, some badly made quests in their starting zone (to this day we still don't know what the night elves were doing there and who sent them) and sweeping under the rug the fact that the Alliance saves them every other day of the week, even restoring their precious Sunwell, when they were enemies, for nothing in return.

I mean, Blood elves being mana-hungry, extremely pragmatic, and commanding the Light instead of having faith in it is definitely Horde-like.

Also, once again Blood Elves aren't Horde because of Garithos; he wasn't even brought up in WoW. The reason is because the Alliance ignored their pleas for help for 5 years and it was the Forsaken (who are part of Horde) who helped them.

[Alanar]

This has been known for a very very very long time. Especially since Blizzard themselves back then came out and said the way they handled key characters were terrible.

It's actually why we got the whole Illidan arc/book during Legion, and why they're involving Vashj & Kael again.

Basically other than maybe the zone settings of TBC, people shouldn't take the lore of key figures during that time as canon. Since Blizzard is currently, and has been for a while, essentially re-writing it.

They only started fixing it in legion so thats not very long ago.. and like every blizzcon before that had people asking about illidan. Its about time i would say.

I mentioned it exactly for those reasons.

[Vaedan]

The Horde became the Red Alliance in TBC. I think that if they really didn't want Blood Elves on Alliance, they should have made them a third faction with Naga and Broken. It would have made more sense and followed The Frozen Throne WC3 expansion lore.

In TBC, they felt way more as a Horde race in a way they were implemented. Since that, their story moved in different direction and they are now basically just fancy pointy eared humans of the red team.

I mean, Blood elves being mana-hungry, extremely pragmatic, and commanding the Light instead of having faith in it is definitely Horde-like.

Exactly.

Also, once again Blood Elves aren't Horde because of Garithos; he wasn't even brought up in WoW. The reason is because the Alliance ignored their pleas for help for 5 years and it was the Forsaken (who are part of Horde) who helped them.

They negotiated with the Alliance as of their starting experience in Eversong, so I guess they were willing to forget Garithos at the time (and it was still quite fresh). They just stopped believing the Alliance after espionage and sabotages from their side in Quel'thalas and that Forsaken came here to help... but let's not forget that Forsaken were there solely because of Sylvanas. Thrall did not want admit blood elves into the Horde unless they deal with their problems first, so Forsaken were not there on behalf of the Horde actually.

I predicted Nightborne going to the Horde way before Allied Race were a thing, they have a very dark elf feel without having to be sadistic and cruel, they actually are a very good fit for the faction even more than modern Blood Elves are.
The same could be said for Alleria's return and "her" high elves, noone could see the Void twist coming though and, to be honest, that turned out better than expected despite their horrible out of the blue introduction.

At first, I did not like it. I felt like nightborne in the Alliance and void elves (or another darker and edgier version of blood elves) would be way more appropriate. I gave void elves on the Alliance chance and that somehow works. Nightborne on the Horde played little weird, especially in Kalimdor, where you butcher night elves in the name of conquest, which is something Thalyssra pledged not to do while they rejoin the world... but OK.

Suramar being Horde is actually a good thing, the only thing the Alliance should feel cheated on is how they were basically forced to help them for an entire expansion just to receive a slap in the face in the end but that's on Blizzard and not the Horde.
They clearly tried to do a reverse situation with Mechagon but eh, not on the same level and nobody really care for Mechagnomes anyway, I barely see any around.

I don't care about Suramar that much. Sure, it is beautiful, sure, some important night elves originates from that place... but after all these years, I don't think night elves themselves are largely interested in Suramar either. I guess most of them never been there before and don't even remember it. In that light, it is surely unfair to take it away from the people who lived there for 10 thousand years. What I really don't like is that night elves, as a core race, are now left misplaced without any acceptable alternative for Teldrassil.

I agree that the Alliance is losing some pieces for no good reason but Suramar and Silvermoon aren't what anyone should focus on.
Dalaran flipflopping is irritating for all for example, it was a human kingdom and should have been left as such.
Dalaran being the Legion capital for the Alliance and Suramar being the one for the Horde would have worked so much better, without leaving any bad feeling in the end for one side.
The Silver Hand, the NE-Cenarion Circle, heroes like Khadgar going neutral are what shouldn't happen but alas, it keeps happening again and again with the Alliance and I can understand that's not very fun but well, our Horde heroes tend to go crazy and need to be put down every odd expansion so eh, maybe it's not that bad in the end.

Yes, the notion of Alliance hereos going neutral and horde heroes going mad is definitely iritating for all. We need to share our heroes with you and you lose your heroes usually for little reason. That results in the fact that ex-alliance neutral heroes are often oblivious to the aggression made on their homes by the Horde (even though they usually claim they will do what they can to protect their homes) and Horde players are all over again exposed to Alliance characters... I don't know why I have to follow dwarven prince everytime I venture into a titan facility or do archaeology related stuff, when there are Reliquary on my side who could do the same for me. this is also one of the things that blurr the lines of faction. Storytelling in classic, while extremely limited, maintained that way better. Neutral organizations were way more rare and you usually interracted with people related to your faction, which felt better in the end.

Blood Elves were indeed forced into the Horde for marketing reasons but the ship has long sailed, leave Silvermoon alone and hope it becomes a way less boring place in the future, like it was back in TBC when BE actually had that whole "survival at all cost" theme which is what most Horde races have going for them.
Focus on reclaiming the fang and claws of the NE without blaming humans or other things for the their neutering, focus on Alliance High Elves transitioning into Void Elves and them building a stronger identity because the potential is there.

I agree on this with you. Now I have my hopes for the future of night elves, there is definitely a story coming for them, connected to Tyrande, Night Warrior and redemption of their fallen from the Maw. We just need for them to have distinctive role in the story. Void elves are still blank pages of the book, so I'm curious what will happen with them. As you said, potential is there. Nightborne and many other races have their story arcs finished, so they are here just left to follow their perspective faction, but void elves will most likely have their own focus in the future.

And let's be honest, would the Alliance really want Silvermoon and the BE back?
They are probably the most hypocrite of all the elves, blaming human for the action of a single individual which had nothing to do with Stormwind, some badly made quests in their starting zone (to this day we still don't know what the night elves were doing there and who sent them) and sweeping under the rug the fact that the Alliance saves them every other day of the week, even restoring their precious Sunwell, when they were enemies, for nothing in return.
All of this while supporting multiple genocidal regimes in the Horde and partecipating in one atrocity after another while still whining about Arthas and Sylvanas and the Scourge, Teldrassil being the most recent elephant in the room.

Nah, leave them be I say, focus on your elves and fight for better races in the future, those guys are stuck with us.

Varian had talks with Lor'themar about blood elves rejoining the Alliance in MoP and Alleria went to Silvermoon with that intent as well on behalf of Anduin, so I guess Alliance is still open to idea of accepting thalassians... but as you said, blood elves turned to be turn-coats who can't be really trusted and especially after Teldrassil, I don't think night elves would accept any former Horde race, and they should not.

[Ardenaso]

They negotiated with the Alliance as of their starting experience in Eversong, so I guess they were willing to forget Garithos at the time (and it was still quite fresh).

Yup, and literally the first chapter after Blood Elf Campagin there are still High/Blood Elves in the Alliance which means they understood that Garithos didn't equate to all Lordaeronians at least

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Jennalla_Deemspring

[Vaedan]

Yup, and literally the first chapter after Blood Elf Campagin there are still High/Blood Elves in the Alliance which means they understood that Garithos didn't equate to all Lordaeronians at least

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Jennalla_Deemspring

He was also mind controlled by dreadlord, as was later discovered by Sylvanas. He was always described as racist bastard, but I would not be surprised if his decision to execute Kael and his people was made under dreadlords influence... but I really doubt Sylvanas would share this information with blood elves. She most likely kept it secret from them.