Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[elbleuet]

high elves left the alliance after WC2..

So according to you when Stromgarde left the Alliance, humans left the Alliance? I don't think so.

Silvermoon left the Alliance and... That's it. High elves never left it.

[Traveler Voltin]

So according to you when Stromgarde left the Alliance, humans left the Alliance? I don't think so.

Silvermoon left the Alliance and... That's it. High elves never left it.

what you even talking about? i dont know much about stormgarde, only that kingdom got destroyed and now its rebuild(and alliance again.)
,
Silvermoon and most of the high elves left the alliance after WC2. the only a small few high elves stayed with the alliance after WC2.

[Imperator4321]

@Rhlor I've felt many things over the years, but I've come to the conclusion that in the end, the blood elves on the horde and the Nightborne on the horde are bad ideas, and have not helped.

I never thought they were the best way, but I also realised that they could have some advantage for the two factions that could be interesting and different... but in time, I feel the damage has been a lot worse for allowing this, and the product could have been a lot better with elves on the alliance only.

It's not the only problem, i think in their effort to raise the profile of the horde, they completely overshot, they didn't write a good and balanced story in ways that didn't make the alliance look naff, and continued it for too long, like they forgot what they were about.

I think the elves on the horde did that, and they grew to love their own creation and couldn't see how it messed it up, but they will see this. as long as they insist on two factions of the horde and alliance only, and as long as they want to preserve strong faction identities true to the original, elves prominent or glorified on the horde will undermine and destroy those effort.

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That said, I do realise it cannot be undone, but the next best thing would be to discontinue progressing, promoting and glorifying the elves on the horde, and instead do that on the alliance mainly and chiefly. Alliance elves should be a lot more attractive and powerful/complete/wholesome on the alliance, in a way the horde ones only get a small part of that pie.

Horde focus should be predominantly focused on the horde core races, and the things that are greatest on the horde should not be pretty elven cities and kingdoms, but Troll and Orc ones, Tauren and Goblin ones.

The elves can have parts to play on the horde (they remian playable afterall), but they should small and specialised ones, they can be pivotal, but they shouldn't be grand, and should be more inconspicuous, behind the scenes, more implied than shown etc, pretty much how they've been conducting the alliance elves. And for horde elf fans like you horrified by the prospect, well, alliance fans have had to endure this for most of warcraft, you won't get pity from them, and you won't get pity from the core horde fans either.

This ish ow I currently feel.

Once again you only seem to care about the visual and aesthetic elements of the races and not their story or characterization, what about the Alliance makes them the "Elf faction" beyond elves = pretty/nice looking which you associate with the Alliance. Blood Elves as written in TBC were a desperate and fallen people who wanted to survive at any costs that fit the Horde much more than the Alliance, along with the previous characterization as fair-weather allies to the alliance also didn't give them any special connection or bond to the Alliance the opposite in-fact since they didn't care about the alliance and thought the alliance didn't care about them either.

This imaginary imbalance between horde and alliance elves doesn't exist both factions have the same amount of elves, both core elf races are among the most popular races, void elves are the most popular allied race. The only place where a horde/alliance imbalance exists is in Mythic Rading and Mythic+ Dungeons which is due to better racials on the horde side not because "horde elves are better".

This conception of yours that Horde = Ugly and brutal and Alliance = Pretty and nice has never been one of Blizzard prioties when it came to designing races for factions. They gave the horde Blood Elves because they felt the horde needed a non monstrous race, they gave the Alliance Worgen because they felt the Alliance could use a monstrous race, they gave the alliance Draenei because they thought the alliance could use a powerful race and they gave the Horde Goblins because they could use a small comic relief race.

[ravenmoon]

Once again you only seem to care about the visual and aesthetic elements of the races and not their story or characterization, what about the Alliance makes them the "Elf faction" beyond elves = pretty/nice looking which you associate with the Alliance. Blood Elves as written in TBC were a desperate and fallen people who wanted to survive at any costs that fit the Horde much more than the Alliance, along with the previous characterization as fair-weather allies to the alliance also didn't give them any special connection or bond to the Alliance the opposite in-fact since they didn't care about the alliance and thought the alliance didn't care about them either.

This imaginary imbalance between horde and alliance elves doesn't exist both factions have the same amount of elves, both core elf races are among the most popular races, void elves are the most popular allied race. The only place where a horde/alliance imbalance exists is in Mythic Rading and Mythic+ Dungeons which is due to better racials on the horde side not because "horde elves are better".

This conception of yours that Horde = Ugly and brutal and Alliance = Pretty and nice has never been one of Blizzard prioties when it came to designing races for factions. They gave the horde Blood Elves because they felt the horde needed a non monstrous race, they gave the Alliance Worgen because they felt the Alliance could use a monstrous race, they gave the alliance Draenei because they thought the alliance could use a powerful race and they gave the Horde Goblins because they could use a small comic relief race.

It's really funny that you think I think this.

No, I am not basing this compatibility on aesthetics. It is the last thing on my mind. I'm thinking theme, character, history, ideologies, philosophies - before other commonalities like the type of civilization, character of said civilization, the elves taught the humans, their morality and foundation goes all the way back to the kaldorei civilization,

Blizzard intrinsically wrote elves (night and high) joined tightly with humans in all the alliance is based on and stands for, and how it thinks and operates. There is no way kaldorei civilization elves like Highborne or Nightborne fit on the horde, not Thalassian elves whether high elves or blood elves like blizzard has developed them, they dont fit.

While you can take the elves to the horde, in that format as they are right now? Like they are in the game right now?, you are turning the horde into the alliance or diluting it severely, they dont fit the very different theme and character crafted for the horde.

All this without even touching aesthetics.

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You dont get more alliance tha human and elves, all night and Thalassians.

Blood elves and Nightborne are basically, humans on the horde, they arent even changed in character and ideology they kept both the original Thalassian and original kaldorei intact in the blood elves and nightborne. The blood elves that changed, they killed off as villains, and the playable ones effectively remained high elves with a different name and faction.

The Nightborne that could have fit, they also killed off, and chose the most kaldorei, noble, goody goody two shoes Nightborne to be the horde race, they are basically arcane themed night elves, I.e. hihborne with a different look, using arcane themes instead of nature - they have the same good conscience, wisdom and morality as the Darnassians, or did you not notice how similar Thalyssra's morality is to Tyrandes.

These are just a more civilised, advanced type of human and alliance slapped on the horde - its diluting the horde, they may have felt this was needed to make the horde more popular, but it has long since no longer been needed. People just need the models, they dont need the cities, large numbers and character of the elves on the horde.

So remove it I say, remove all of it, and leave a remnant group of nightborne and blood elves dedicated to the horde for player access but dont actually figure largely or are loud or big on the horde, it's just not the character of the Nightborne, Highborne or any Kaldorei, nor the high elves, void elves or blood elves as blizzard has written them so far.

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Finally, and not least either, the current state is not good for the alliance, and changing as I suggested would be very good for the alliance. it is quite clear alliance fans are far more interested in night elves and High elves than they are in even humans. but truth is human and elves go hand in hand. After that comes interest in Dwarves, Draenei, Worgen and Gnomes (likely in that order).

Look at the threads on elves created by alliance players, and what they ask for, what they care about the most, and what interests them. And it's not just that. The poor writing of the alliance and taking it's core other half to the horde ahs left it unappealing and dull by comparison. Why do you think the only noise alliance fans make concerning horde races for themselves is the elves? it's because the elves are woven fully into the fabric of the alliance, it's creation, foundation - even without playing a large role with the humans, the elves are basically better humans.. this is how they are written, and this is all alliance, they are together.. so to then halfway through the project, take one of the biggest elf groups and instead build them on the horde relatively unchanged, was basically putting humans and the alliance on the horde. Which meant reducing and diminishing the actual alliance itself, and at the same time diluting the horde.

So much so the factions are a lot more blurred, not because of aesthetics 9they ensured, aesthetics there would be distinction even though the elven aesthetics are obviously alliance), but it's actually the identity and theme of the factions that got blurred, it's like the horde is 1.5 times the alliance, because it's got half the alliance on it by the elves largely based on them.

Alliance numbers are way down and still falling, ofc they would the best parts of the alliance, the better humans have their best features and aspects on the horde. It's great for bragging rights and feel good factor for horde ELF fans, but it's terrible both for game balance, terrible for the alliance, and bad for the core theme of the horde. And at this point I see no reason for this to continue on the horde and very good reasons for the alliance to once more take the major lead and drive of the elves.

[Imperator4321]

It's really funny that you think I think this.

No, I am not basing this compatibility on aesthetics. It is the last thing on my mind. I'm thinking theme, character, history, ideologies, philosophies - before other commonalities like the type of civilization, character of said civilization, the elves taught the humans, their morality and foundation goes all the way back to the kaldorei civilization,

Blizzard intrinsically wrote elves (night and high) joined tightly with humans in all the alliance is based on and stands for, and how it thinks and operates. There is no way kaldorei civilization elves like Highborne or Nightborne fit on the horde, not Thalassian elves whether high elves or blood elves like blizzard has developed them, they dont fit.

While you can take the elves to the horde, in that format as they are right now? Like they are in the game right now?, you are turning the horde into the alliance or diluting it severely, they dont fit the very different theme and character crafted for the horde.

All this without even touching aesthetics.

- - - Updated - - -

You dont get more alliance tha human and elves, all night and Thalassians.

Blood elves and Nightborne are basically, humans on the horde, they arent even changed in character and ideology they kept both the original Thalassian and original kaldorei intact in the blood elves and nightborne. The blood elves that changed, they killed off as villains, and the playable ones effectively remained high elves with a different name and faction.

The Nightborne that could have fit, they also killed off, and chose the most kaldorei, noble, goody goody two shoes Nightborne to be the horde race, they are basically arcane themed night elves, I.e. hihborne with a different look, using arcane themes instead of nature - they have the same good conscience, wisdom and morality as the Darnassians, or did you not notice how similar Thalyssra's morality is to Tyrandes.

These are just a more civilised, advanced type of human and alliance slapped on the horde - its diluting the horde, they may have felt this was needed to make the horde more popular, but it has long since no longer been needed. People just need the models, they dont need the cities, large numbers and character of the elves on the horde.

So remove it I say, remove all of it, and leave a remnant group of nightborne and blood elves dedicated to the horde for player access but dont actually figure largely or are loud or big on the horde, it's just not the character of the Nightborne, Highborne or any Kaldorei, nor the high elves, void elves or blood elves as blizzard has written them so far.

Your ignoring the motivations why the High Elves taught humanity magic, it wasn't out of the kindness or a desire to help them, it was because they needed allies to fight the Amani Trolls and the Empire of Arathor were also enemies of the Amani, it was an alliance of convienience that stopped existing once the Amani were stopped, the High Elves only started supporting the Alliance of Lordaeron in earnest once the Horde threatened Quel'Thalas itself, they left the Alliance after the second war and didn't renew any support for it until Kael'thas supported the remnants of the alliance under Garithos after the scourge ravaged Quel'thalas which they also left. Where in this history of Human/High Elf diplomatic relations did you come to the conclusion that Elves and Humans share any kind of deep bond? and where in this history of alliances of convienence get you get the idea that High Elves would be opposed to aligning with the Horde which is defined as Blizzard as being made up of alliances of convienence over shared ideals or traditions like the Alliance is defined by Blizzard as being about.

the Kal'dorei and Humans also don't share any deep bond historically, Night Elves didn't even know humans existed until the Third War since Humanity didn't even exist until after the Sundering split Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdom, they joined the Alliance because they weren't the ones encroaching on their terrority or chopping down their sacred groves like the Horde was and they weren't able to fight the Horde on their own.

The Shal'dorei joined the Horde because despite their kinship the Kal'dorei, Tyande distrusted them and didn't care for their plight while the Sin'dorei were open and understanding due to their shared struggle with addiction to the arcane.

[Rhlor]

@Rhlor I've felt many things over the years, but I've come to the conclusion that in the end, the blood elves on the horde and the Nightborne on the horde are bad ideas, and have not helped.

I never thought they were the best way, but I also realised that they could have some advantage for the two factions that could be interesting and different... but in time, I feel the damage has been a lot worse for allowing this, and the product could have been a lot better with elves on the alliance only.

It's not the only problem, i think in their effort to raise the profile of the horde, they completely overshot, they didn't write a good and balanced story in ways that didn't make the alliance look naff, and continued it for too long, like they forgot what they were about.

I think the elves on the horde did that, and they grew to love their own creation and couldn't see how it messed it up, but they will see this. as long as they insist on two factions of the horde and alliance only, and as long as they want to preserve strong faction identities true to the original, elves prominent or glorified on the horde will undermine and destroy those effort.

- - - Updated - - -

That said, I do realise it cannot be undone, but the next best thing would be to discontinue progressing, promoting and glorifying the elves on the horde, and instead do that on the alliance mainly and chiefly. Alliance elves should be a lot more attractive and powerful/complete/wholesome on the alliance, in a way the horde ones only get a small part of that pie.

Horde focus should be predominantly focused on the horde core races, and the things that are greatest on the horde should not be pretty elven cities and kingdoms, but Troll and Orc ones, Tauren and Goblin ones.

The elves can have parts to play on the horde (they remian playable afterall), but they should small and specialised ones, they can be pivotal, but they shouldn't be grand, and should be more inconspicuous, behind the scenes, more implied than shown etc, pretty much how they've been conducting the alliance elves. And for horde elf fans like you horrified by the prospect, well, alliance fans have had to endure this for most of warcraft, you won't get pity from them, and you won't get pity from the core horde fans either.

This ish ow I currently feel.

at last you let see what your true feelings are!

You don't want to do something to increase the alliance numbers in mythics because to do that it has much more logic to improve the alliance racials! nor do you just want the story of the alliance elves in the lore and narrative better. what you want is to destroy the lore, the narrative and the content of the horde elves because you are envious! It bothers you that the elves in the horde have beautiful cities and that they have pleasant stories for those who play them! You're angry because you want the alliance to have what the horde elves have purely out of jealousy.

my only character in the alliance is a night elf druid and i want the night elves to have better stories i want them to have a beautiful new capital in nordrassil and i also want the void elves to be able to build a city in telogrus. It doesn't bother me that the alliance has nice things. I think Stormwind is prettier than Orgrimmar as a faction capital.

what blizzard has to do is tell better stories and create beautiful new cities for the races of both the horde and the alliance! the worgen deserve to have gilneas back, the gnomes deserve gnomeregan, the night elves must have a beautiful new capital in nordrassil, now we have sandfurry in the horde and we should have zulfarrak and the maghar deserve to have a city of their own!

ask for better things for all races that should be the goal of all players not wanting to steal their content from other players!

and I suggest you play BFA with a horde character because the ending of expa tells us that the horde will not be what it was, it is a new era for the horde where all races are important and where everyone will have the same importance and never again we'll have a warchief, that's the horde narrative now.

[Imperator4321]

at last you let see what your true feelings are!

You don't want to do something to increase the alliance numbers in mythics because to do that it has much more logic to improve the alliance racials! nor do you just want the story of the alliance elves in the lore and narrative better. what you want is to destroy the lore, the narrative and the content of the horde elves because you are envious! It bothers you that the elves in the horde have beautiful cities and that they have pleasant stories for those who play them! You're angry because you want the alliance to have what the horde elves have purely out of jealousy.

my only character in the alliance is a night elf druid and i want the night elves to have better stories i want them to have a beautiful new capital in nordrassil and i also want the void elves to be able to build a city in telogrus. It doesn't bother me that the alliance has nice things. I think Stormwind is prettier than Orgrimmar as a faction capital.

what blizzard has to do is tell better stories and create beautiful new cities for the races of both the horde and the alliance! the worgen deserve to have gilneas back, the gnomes deserve gnomeregan, the night elves must have a beautiful new capital in nordrassil, now we have sandfurry in the horde and we should have zulfarrak and the maghar deserve to have a city of their own!

ask for better things for all races that should be the goal of all players not wanting to steal their content from other players!

and I suggest you play BFA with a horde character because the ending of expa tells us that the horde will not be what it was, it is a new era for the horde where all races are important and where everyone will have the same importance and never again we'll have a warchief, that's the horde narrative now.

It's an unfortunate trend with these types of discussions, instead of wanting good things to happen to what they like, people think that to improve what they like they need to also bring other things down that they don't like or think are somehow obstacles to improving what they like.

I can understand and sympathize with Night Elf and High Elf fans, Blizzard treated the Night Elves as the go-to punching bags of the Horde since Cataclysm and treated the High Elves/Silver Covenant as set dressing/foils to the sunreavers and have basically forgotten they exist now that the void elves have essentially taken their place in the Alliance but wanting to bring bring down/ruin the Blood Elves/Nightborne/Void Elves to improve the Night Elves/High Elves doesn't help anything and only makes fans of those things hate you back.

[Rhlor]

It's an unfortunate trend with these types of discussions, instead of wanting good things to happen to what they like, people think that to improve what they like they need to also bring other things down that they don't like or think are somehow obstacles to improving what they like.

I can understand and sympathize with Night Elf and High Elf fans, Blizzard treated the Night Elves as the go-to punching bags of the Horde since Cataclysm and treated the High Elves/Silver Covenant as set dressing/foils to the sunreavers and have basically forgotten they exist now that the void elves have essentially taken their place in the Alliance but wanting to bring bring down/ruin the Blood Elves/Nightborne/Void Elves to improve the Night Elves/High Elves doesn't help anything and only makes fans of those things hate you back.

best things for everyone! I like the new customizations of the night elves they look great and I am sorry that the blood elves have so few. but that I ask for more customization for blood elves does not mean that I want the night elves to have less! We must all ask for things to improve all races not wanting to take things away from others.

[Traveler Voltin]

it would be so much easier to build up Alliance stuff without taking cities from the Horde.
Night elves seemed to have moved to Hyjial(so its probably not a neutral area). so they can easily start build that up. they still have the base in Feralas they can build up. the SC seems to have disappeared, idk maybe have them make an outpost in westfall or some place in alliance territory to gather all the high elves.

Void elves got a good chunk of high elf customization. they of course want the natural hair colors but that would take too much away from the blood elves. so maybe give Blood elves tattoos to compensate?

[ravenmoon]

at last you let see what your true feelings are!

Feelings change. Blizzard do not want horde and alliance working together on any capacity, their vision is distinct separate identities. My feelings of the elf situation working on the horde have changed with acceptance. This situation is inconsistent with what they prize most about their Warcraft vision of 2 distinct factions based in the original tradition of the franchise. That vision will never work properly with horde elves large and louder than alliance ones, and hogging so much limelight and sparkle on the horde, nor does it need to at all right now and they know it.

Horde needed elves for fancy models and to siphon enough of the alliance crowd over, and continue to dominate to draw more new ones, but at this stage it's well exceeded that goal (the scales tipped as far back as WotLK/Cata and kept growing for the horde), right now, the horde certainly no longer needs that elf input and pumping up, and it is actually getting worse off for it, I can see that clearly, so it will change when they recognise it. And they will if they care about plugging the holes in this ship they created.

You don't want to do something to increase the alliance numbers in mythics because to do that it has much more logic to improve the alliance racials! nor do you just want the story of the alliance elves in the lore and narrative better. what you want is to destroy the lore, the narrative and the content of the horde elves because you are envious! It bothers you that the elves in the horde have beautiful cities and that they have pleasant stories for those who play them! You're angry because you want the alliance to have what the horde elves have purely out of jealousy.

Accuse me of jealousy all you want, not once in these recent statements have I talked about destroying the horde, just removing the un-necessary show of the elves on it, insisting that core horde races fill the void left by them - that is actually helping the horde, and not jealousy. I no longer care enough to be jealous like you think I am. But even if I am in self denial about being jealous, it doesn't change the situation and the conclusion I've come to being correct.

And you'd be foolish to think giving imbalanced racials to one faction is a good way to solve a perception problem. They'd have to be nerfed down the line again creating more problems.

And it's blind egocentric logic to think my motivation is driven by envy on the horde elves. You are blinded by your fascination by them, and that is leading you to refuse to recognise the elves were always and still remain an alliance centred race, and that their edification on the horde has damaged both the horde and the alliance. They shouldn't be on the horde, and if on the horde, should not be carrying the core of the elves and their kingdoms (both the high elves AND the night elves - alliance core races..? come on that's well overkill and you know it) To think that this is good just because you've liked it is being blind to the effect it's hard in diminishing the authenticity and viability of both the factions thematically and thus the franchises' lore and balance of which the core is centred around 2 factions with unique and separate identities vying for survival or control, challenging their prejudices and dealing with their differences.

Failure to see this proves you're only concerned with keeping the things you like as they are, and unwilling to see the bigger picture which necessitates the loss of much of the un-necessary elf clamour and glorification that has happened on the horde.

my only character in the alliance is a night elf druid and i want the night elves to have better stories i want them to have a beautiful new capital in nordrassil and i also want the void elves to be able to build a city in telogrus. It doesn't bother me that the alliance has nice things. I think Stormwind is prettier than Orgrimmar as a faction capital.

I can forgive you for wanting to forge night elves in your image, but we both know you neither care for them or desire them. You would want to dictate a state for them that would never effect you. Be honest, it would make no difference for you if night elves continued homeless, or got your ideal capital or shared Stormwind as their last resort, you don't really care because your heart isn't there. Even though you have a character. I have 25 horde characters, with over half of them shared between blood elves and Nightborne and over 15 of them are level 50. Call me bias and jealous all you want, I have invested far more in the horde than you have in the alliance. Playing both factions since TBC.

You will only care if it appears the alliance elves are getting something nicer than the horde elves. It's your only motivation for caring for Nightborne - the night elf empire city they were in, the origin kaldorei city of the night elves was prettier than Silvermoon and you wanted it. Their magic was shown as more powerful too and you wanted it - cos those are the things you are drawn most to in these fantasies. When the Shen'dralar were only written to have greater magical knowledge and skill, and that their city was only described as once being more amazing than Silvermoon - you had no interest, cos it wasn't shown, only in some texts most players aren't even aware of, and therefore not the envy of your peers and the gaming community, and not worth bragging rights or vain feeling of superiority.

You only get passionate, arguing against any suggestion that makes alliance elves have something that eclipses horde elves (whining it's unfair which is a lame excuse, seeing you are not thinking of the greater good)- this is 100% indicator of complex, and motivations based on rivalry, bragging rights and a sense of feeling superior because what you have chosen appears better than your rivals.. so when it is suggested that be removed you're dead set against it, but more urgently so when it actually makes sense. And you know it makes sense these races be dominant on the alliance.

But ofc, you were once alliance because of the elves, and switched to horde, now you defend the horde as passionately as you did alliance because you accepted the blood elves as the horde race they were never really turned to be. They basically put high elves, i.e. higher humans on the horde, and you think that made them fit the horde theme? The horde changed because of it, what was the horde was greatly diminished, but you never really cared about the horde. Your horde support only exists as long as the elves remain glorious on it, cos you're a hardcore horde elf fan.

My prediction is you will slither back to the alliance with half of your cohorts should the high elves and night elves regain the elven kingdoms misplaced on the horde. Or if they gain something better. COs that's what you're attracted to, and you will go wherever they go.

True horde fans know this is the case with most of you hardcore horde elf fans, you're actually originally alliance fans, you don't terribly care about the rest of the horde at all, your support is entirely because the magical elves and their prettiness and thus bragging rights are on the horde, you're large enough that your departure will fix the number imbalance, but not big enough to destabilise the horde, most of the players who play blood elf don't care about the lore, don't care whether Silvermoon or Suramar is horde or not, they just like having the model available and playing on the faction where most of the leading gamers are as well as their guilds.

what blizzard has to do is tell better stories and create beautiful new cities for the races of both the horde and the alliance! the worgen deserve to have gilneas back, the gnomes deserve gnomeregan, the night elves must have a beautiful new capital in nordrassil, now we have sandfurry in the horde and we should have zulfarrak and the maghar deserve to have a city of their own!

ask for better things for all races that should be the goal of all players not wanting to steal their content from other players!

and I suggest you play BFA with a horde character because the ending of expa tells us that the horde will not be what it was, it is a new era for the horde where all races are important and where everyone will have the same importance and never again we'll have a warchief, that's the horde narrative now.

So blind, Alliance players and about a quarter of the horde elf population care passionately about the Elves, not Dwarves, Gilneans, Gnomes or Draenei - oh yes, some do care, but that number is SMALL, blizzard will waste 4-6 years writing better stories for them and see almost nothing change. Sure they might get plaudits for better stories, but little change in alliance interest and numbers, because those are not the groups most alliance fans care about.

More threads will crop about High elves than any other playable alliance race including humans and night elves. Anger at the Nightborne and the obvious bias of their horde inclusion will rage on, and rubbish treatment of the alliance elves in the story will spark more responses than any development good or bad of Draenei, Dwarves, Gnomes and worgen COMBINED !!

You honestly don't think we can't see that?. And I would be surprised if blizzard continues to ignore that. Look at all the attention the put in Draenei and Dwarves over the years, hardly any excitement from the populace, but whiff of high elves showing up, is met with an explosion of activity, eager alliance fans, and irritated horde elf fans. Night elf activity, despite nearly dead for 10 years, comes alive the instance the night elves are at the centre of the story again like the first half of Legion, to the delight of the alliance fans, and jealousy of the horde fans but far moreso the horde elf fans, because the Kaldorei civilization and magic shown was superior to the blood elves, and they coveted it, whined for it, and watch how happy they were when it was given to the horde - but it was all superficial, they had no real interest in the Nightborne lore wise and character wise and still don't.

How do I know this? Most topics on Nightborne die nearly as fast as gnomes, dwarves and Tauren topics, except when alliance fans suggest or insist the Nightborne should come over to the alliance, then you have the army of hardcore Belf fans, ever stalking the forums, showing an interest and the topic comes alive, because they are waging a media war to try and prevent this from happening, and don't actually care about the Nightborne, they never did, they don't show interest, blood elves is what they really care about..

What little hypocrites, they don't need it, know they don't need, want the pretty city and don't want their enemies to get it, outside that, near zero interest. Majority of Nightborne topics are driven by alliance fans, and they pale in comparison to the Thalassian elf topics, in particular the high elf ones.

What do you think that tells anyone who actually pays attention to who is posting? They will see lots of various alliance fans asking and requesting the same thing and excited about the elves, and notice a handful of hardcore BElf fans stalking the forums to pressurise those alliance fans into quitting on their hopes.

Yes, the audacity, the majority of the hardcore horde elf fanbase responses on this topic amount to - "how dare you desire High elves or ask for them - you have no right to have this desire or make this request" - they literally are trying to dissuade them from wanting or desiring something - of all the nerve, try to control what people desire or want.

Try harder, and watch your efforts fail.. all this clamour and un-necessary discussions will continue until High elves and Night elves are properly re-established on the alliance. When that happens you will see all the craziness die down, the faction image healed, and the rivalry shift to the actual nature of the story and its core faction themes. They will then notice how really tiny the hardcore horde elf fanbase was, a very small group of people stalking all the boards and making a lot of noise. They will post to complain, and no one will care. Alliance fans won't care cos they got what they wanted, and the rest of the horde fans won't care, cos the true horde fans would be appreciating the horde core races and their themes properly enthroned, promoted and glorified on the horde, and 3/4 of those who play blood elves on the horde don't actually care about blood elf lore, whether Silvermoon is alliance or horde or neutral, or whether Suramar has gone alliance or alliance elves have more.

They don't post on forums, they play the game, watch streams, and all they ever needed was a model that looked good in gear, they couldn't give a flying fuck who has this city or area.

- - - Updated - - -

it would be so much easier to build up Alliance stuff without taking cities from the Horde.
Night elves seemed to have moved to Hyjial(so its probably not a neutral area). so they can easily start build that up. they still have the base in Feralas they can build up. the SC seems to have disappeared, idk maybe have them make an outpost in westfall or some place in alliance territory to gather all the high elves.

Void elves got a good chunk of high elf customization. they of course want the natural hair colors but that would take too much away from the blood elves. so maybe give Blood elves tattoos to compensate?

That's just your desire to keep the elf stuff on the horde speaking.

WE both know it's far easier to give the night elves and high elves Suramar and Quel'thalas/Silvermoon than it is to design and build 2 new cities. And we both know doing this would be more effective in drawing some of the excess horde numbers back to the alliance, and that area it will draw from is the over inflated elf horde population - a much more effective way actually solving the issue, with less development time.

Sure, personally I would love an even more glorious night elven city on the alliance and an amazing new void elf/high elf city too with zones etc, that's twice as much elf stuff for me to play around with , but I'm not blinded by this, and will tell you straight off, taking from the horde is the more logical choice. It will work better too.

Even if I would enjoy your proposal more. (if I were staying)

[Mace]

@ravenmoon - it's fascinating to see how people just can't understand what is wrong with having an alliance centred on human and elves, then effectively creating and giving better humans (i.e. high elves and night elves in the form of blood elves and Nightborne) on the horde, with everything humans do and have but better - and think that somehow the alliance is not completely undermined by this fact (in addition to having it's other core race flourishing on the other faction) - and to also think this doesn't dilute the horde, making it far more alliance than it should be for a game who's developers harp on constantly about keeping the core of the franchise in the two factions blah blah, yet continue to undermine it so blatantly by keeping elves so strong and visible on the horde, superior in everyway to everything humans and the alliance elves have.


To fix the horde, the changed half of it into the alliance, and thought it was smart, and still can't see how it broke their entire concept. Till this day.

What also surprises me is that you're only just seeing this now, you're nearly 14 years too late. TBC was the time to point this out - alliance fans should have got the message that blizzard likes it this way when Nightborne went horde. I did. Well either they like it this way or are too engrossed in their own bias/favouritism to see otherwise.

Look, it's the way it is, and yes it's sub-optimal, but they ARE OKAY with this more broken state of the factions as long as horde elf fanbois keep their pretty cities and elven dominance. The price of having the bragging rights of Silvermoon and Suramar (because here's a well known secret, most of said senior devs are horde elf fanbois, who's hearts switched to horde over the blood elves - such people were never going to let us get a city like Suramar looking so pretty - we would have if it looked more like Nar'thalas). And they'll keep denying it - but it's an old realisation.

The wisest thing you said was that you were moving on. If the lore and direction is just to stupid or misplaced for you, do what I realised and quit playing this shit, and don't call me to answer foolish arguments on posts on forums where you know no matter what you say, the same crowd is just going to deny and argue against it.

I suggest you take your own advise and let the posting die too, if they don't see what's really wrong, they would when they examine the autopsy of wow's corpse Long since too late, and you'd be much richer for all the extra time you spent on important things instead of this junk.

[Rhlor]

Feelings change. Blizzard do not want horde and alliance working together on any capacity, their vision is distinct separate identities. My feelings of the elf situation working on the horde have changed with acceptance. This situation is inconsistent with what they prize most about their Warcraft vision of 2 distinct factions based in the original tradition of the franchise. That vision will never work properly with horde elves large and louder than alliance ones, and hogging so much limelight and sparkle on the horde, nor does it need to at all right now and they know it.

Horde needed elves for fancy models and to siphon enough of the alliance crowd over, and continue to dominate to draw more new ones, but at this stage it's well exceeded that goal (the scales tipped as far back as WotLK/Cata and kept growing for the horde), right now, the horde certainly no longer needs that elf input and pumping up, and it is actually getting worse off for it, I can see that clearly, so it will change when they recognise it. And they will if they care about plugging the holes in this ship they created.



Accuse me of jealousy all you want, not once in these recent statements have I talked about destroying the horde, just removing the un-necessary show of the elves on it, insisting that core horde races fill the void left by them - that is actually helping the horde, and not jealousy. I no longer care enough to be jealous like you think I am. But even if I am in self denial about being jealous, it doesn't change the situation and the conclusion I've come to being correct.

And you'd be foolish to think giving imbalanced racials to one faction is a good way to solve a perception problem. They'd have to be nerfed down the line again creating more problems.

And it's blind egocentric logic to think my motivation is driven by envy on the horde elves. You are blinded by your fascination by them, and that is leading you to refuse to recognise the elves were always and still remain an alliance centred race, and that their edification on the horde has damaged both the horde and the alliance. They shouldn't be on the horde, and if on the horde, should not be carrying the core of the elves and their kingdoms (both the high elves AND the night elves - alliance core races..? come on that's well overkill and you know it) To think that this is good just because you've liked it is being blind to the effect it's hard in diminishing the authenticity and viability of both the factions thematically and thus the franchises' lore and balance of which the core is centred around 2 factions with unique and separate identities vying for survival or control, challenging their prejudices and dealing with their differences.

Failure to see this proves you're only concerned with keeping the things you like as they are, and unwilling to see the bigger picture which necessitates the loss of much of the un-necessary elf clamour and glorification that has happened on the horde.



I can forgive you for wanting to forge night elves in your image, but we both know you neither care for them or desire them. You would want to dictate a state for them that would never effect you. Be honest, it would make no difference for you if night elves continued homeless, or got your ideal capital or shared Stormwind as their last resort, you don't really care because your heart isn't there. Even though you have a character. I have 25 horde characters, with over half of them shared between blood elves and Nightborne and over 15 of them are level 50. Call me bias and jealous all you want, I have invested far more in the horde than you have in the alliance. Playing both factions since TBC.

You will only care if it appears the alliance elves are getting something nicer than the horde elves. It's your only motivation for caring for Nightborne - the night elf empire city they were in, the origin kaldorei city of the night elves was prettier than Silvermoon and you wanted it. Their magic was shown as more powerful too and you wanted it - cos those are the things you are drawn most to in these fantasies. When the Shen'dralar were only written to have greater magical knowledge and skill, and that their city was only described as once being more amazing than Silvermoon - you had no interest, cos it wasn't shown, only in some texts most players aren't even aware of, and therefore not the envy of your peers and the gaming community, and not worth bragging rights or vain feeling of superiority.

You only get passionate, arguing against any suggestion that makes alliance elves have something that eclipses horde elves (whining it's unfair which is a lame excuse, seeing you are not thinking of the greater good)- this is 100% indicator of complex, and motivations based on rivalry, bragging rights and a sense of feeling superior because what you have chosen appears better than your rivals.. so when it is suggested that be removed you're dead set against it, but more urgently so when it actually makes sense. And you know it makes sense these races be dominant on the alliance.

But ofc, you were once alliance because of the elves, and switched to horde, now you defend the horde as passionately as you did alliance because you accepted the blood elves as the horde race they were never really turned to be. They basically put high elves, i.e. higher humans on the horde, and you think that made them fit the horde theme? The horde changed because of it, what was the horde was greatly diminished, but you never really cared about the horde. Your horde support only exists as long as the elves remain glorious on it, cos you're a hardcore horde elf fan.

My prediction is you will slither back to the alliance with half of your cohorts should the high elves and night elves regain the elven kingdoms misplaced on the horde. Or if they gain something better. COs that's what you're attracted to, and you will go wherever they go.

True horde fans know this is the case with most of you hardcore horde elf fans, you're actually originally alliance fans, you don't terribly care about the rest of the horde at all, your support is entirely because the magical elves and their prettiness and thus bragging rights are on the horde, you're large enough that your departure will fix the number imbalance, but not big enough to destabilise the horde, most of the players who play blood elf don't care about the lore, don't care whether Silvermoon or Suramar is horde or not, they just like having the model available and playing on the faction where most of the leading gamers are as well as their guilds.


So blind, Alliance players and about a quarter of the horde elf population care passionately about the Elves, not Dwarves, Gilneans, Gnomes or Draenei - oh yes, some do care, but that number is SMALL, blizzard will waste 4-6 years writing better stories for them and see almost nothing change. Sure they might get plaudits for better stories, but little change in alliance interest and numbers, because those are not the groups most alliance fans care about.

More threads will crop about High elves than any other playable alliance race including humans and night elves. Anger at the Nightborne and the obvious bias of their horde inclusion will rage on, and rubbish treatment of the alliance elves in the story will spark more responses than any development good or bad of Draenei, Dwarves, Gnomes and worgen COMBINED !!

You honestly don't think we can't see that?. And I would be surprised if blizzard continues to ignore that. Look at all the attention the put in Draenei and Dwarves over the years, hardly any excitement from the populace, but whiff of high elves showing up, is met with an explosion of activity, eager alliance fans, and irritated horde elf fans. Night elf activity, despite nearly dead for 10 years, comes alive the instance the night elves are at the centre of the story again like the first half of Legion, to the delight of the alliance fans, and jealousy of the horde fans but far moreso the horde elf fans, because the Kaldorei civilization and magic shown was superior to the blood elves, and they coveted it, whined for it, and watch how happy they were when it was given to the horde - but it was all superficial, they had no real interest in the Nightborne lore wise and character wise and still don't.

How do I know this? Most topics on Nightborne die nearly as fast as gnomes, dwarves and Tauren topics, except when alliance fans suggest or insist the Nightborne should come over to the alliance, then you have the army of hardcore Belf fans, ever stalking the forums, showing an interest and the topic comes alive, because they are waging a media war to try and prevent this from happening, and don't actually care about the Nightborne, they never did, they don't show interest, blood elves is what they really care about..

What little hypocrites, they don't need it, know they don't need, want the pretty city and don't want their enemies to get it, outside that, near zero interest. Majority of Nightborne topics are driven by alliance fans, and they pale in comparison to the Thalassian elf topics, in particular the high elf ones.

What do you think that tells anyone who actually pays attention to who is posting? They will see lots of various alliance fans asking and requesting the same thing and excited about the elves, and notice a handful of hardcore BElf fans stalking the forums to pressurise those alliance fans into quitting on their hopes.

Yes, the audacity, the majority of the hardcore horde elf fanbase responses on this topic amount to - "how dare you desire High elves or ask for them - you have no right to have this desire or make this request" - they literally are trying to dissuade them from wanting or desiring something - of all the nerve, try to control what people desire or want.

Try harder, and watch your efforts fail.. all this clamour and un-necessary discussions will continue until High elves and Night elves are properly re-established on the alliance. When that happens you will see all the craziness die down, the faction image healed, and the rivalry shift to the actual nature of the story and its core faction themes. They will then notice how really tiny the hardcore horde elf fanbase was, a very small group of people stalking all the boards and making a lot of noise. They will post to complain, and no one will care. Alliance fans won't care cos they got what they wanted, and the rest of the horde fans won't care, cos the true horde fans would be appreciating the horde core races and their themes properly enthroned, promoted and glorified on the horde, and 3/4 of those who play blood elves on the horde don't actually care about blood elf lore, whether Silvermoon is alliance or horde or neutral, or whether Suramar has gone alliance or alliance elves have more.

They don't post on forums, they play the game, watch streams, and all they ever needed was a model that looked good in gear, they couldn't give a flying fuck who has this city or area.

- - - Updated - - -


That's just your desire to keep the elf stuff on the horde speaking.

WE both know it's far easier to give the night elves and high elves Suramar and Quel'thalas/Silvermoon than it is to design and build 2 new cities. And we both know doing this would be more effective in drawing some of the excess horde numbers back to the alliance, and that area it will draw from is the over inflated elf horde population - a much more effective way actually solving the issue, with less development time.

Sure, personally I would love an even more glorious night elven city on the alliance and an amazing new void elf/high elf city too with zones etc, that's twice as much elf stuff for me to play around with , but I'm not blinded by this, and will tell you straight off, taking from the horde is the more logical choice. It will work better too.

Even if I would enjoy your proposal more. (if I were staying)

I did not want nightborne in the horde nor did I want to suramar, I supported the nightborne as a sub-race of the night elves, it was you and other players of the alliance who wanted to exchange the night elf model for the blood elf model and when blizz exchanged models you did you celebrated.
I post this in 2016

also They said that subraces would only be aesthetic changes.

I think playable nightborne have 2 options

1) subrace of night elves.

2) neutral race like pandarean

Blue and gold eyes are obvious personalization options for blood elves

Obviously the first option was the one that I thought was the most logical and I support

now I advocate that the nightborne have suramar because it is the racial capital of a playable race of the horde and it is obvious that it should continue to be.

your whole argument is crazy you know well we all know that what matters to mythics players are racials, are you saying that improving the alliance's racials wouldn't help?

I think everything you say is pointless asking to steal capitals from playable races is crazy. and I do not care that the alliance has good things boralus is better than zuldazar and I do not care, that the alliance has good things for me is fine. as I said I supported the nightborne and suramar were part of the night elves. if they give him good things it will seem good to me, what seems illogical to me is asking to steal capital from playable races.

but tell me according to your logic the elves of the horde would not have capital then?

- - - Updated - - -

@ravenmoon - it's fascinating to see how people just can't understand what is wrong with having an alliance centred on human and elves, then effectively creating and giving better humans (i.e. high elves and night elves in the form of blood elves and Nightborne) on the horde, with everything humans do and have but better - and think that somehow the alliance is not completely undermined by this fact (in addition to having it's other core race flourishing on the other faction) - and to also think this doesn't dilute the horde, making it far more alliance than it should be for a game who's developers harp on constantly about keeping the core of the franchise in the two factions blah blah, yet continue to undermine it so blatantly by keeping elves so strong and visible on the horde, superior in everyway to everything humans and the alliance elves have.


To fix the horde, the changed half of it into the alliance, and thought it was smart, and still can't see how it broke their entire concept. Till this day.

What also surprises me is that you're only just seeing this now, you're nearly 14 years too late. TBC was the time to point this out - alliance fans should have got the message that blizzard likes it this way when Nightborne went horde. I did. Well either they like it this way or are too engrossed in their own bias/favouritism to see otherwise.

Look, it's the way it is, and yes it's sub-optimal, but they ARE OKAY with this more broken state of the factions as long as horde elf fanbois keep their pretty cities and elven dominance. The price of having the bragging rights of Silvermoon and Suramar (because here's a well known secret, most of said senior devs are horde elf fanbois, who's hearts switched to horde over the blood elves - such people were never going to let us get a city like Suramar looking so pretty - we would have if it looked more like Nar'thalas). And they'll keep denying it - but it's an old realisation.

The wisest thing you said was that you were moving on. If the lore and direction is just to stupid or misplaced for you, do what I realised and quit playing this shit, and don't call me to answer foolish arguments on posts on forums where you know no matter what you say, the same crowd is just going to deny and argue against it.

I suggest you take your own advise and let the posting die too, if they don't see what's really wrong, they would when they examine the autopsy of wow's corpse Long since too late, and you'd be much richer for all the extra time you spent on important things instead of this junk.

I supported the nightborne as a subrace of the night elves and you know it! You also know that most of those who asked and celebrated that the nightborne be exchanged for the void elves were alliance players like the ravenmoon himself.
but although I would have liked the nightborne and suramar to be an alliance because for me it was something logical. now it is a racial capital of a playable race wanting to steal it is absurd
You also know that if it were up to me, I would create a faction of elves.

the horde and the alliance are different. the horde is multicultural and has a council, the alliance is more culturally uniform and they have a human-centered leader (anduin / turalyon.)

[Ardenaso]

what you even talking about? i dont know much about stormgarde, only that kingdom got destroyed and now its rebuild(and alliance again.)
,
Silvermoon and most of the high elves left the alliance after WC2. the only a small few high elves stayed with the alliance after WC2.

Stromgarde, Gilneas, and Quel'thalas left the Alliance of Lordaeron after WC2, and Alterac was kicked out

the only ones who haven't re-pledged to the Grand Alliance are Quel'thalas and Alterac. I want Alterac to be Horde

[Tanaria]

[MENTION=576692]
The wisest thing you said was that you were moving on. If the lore and direction is just to stupid or misplaced for you, do what I realised and quit playing this shit, and don't call me to answer foolish arguments on posts on forums where you know no matter what you say, the same crowd is just going to deny and argue against it.

I suggest you take your own advise and let the posting die too, if they don't see what's really wrong, they would when they examine the autopsy of wow's corpse Long since too late, and you'd be much richer for all the extra time you spent on important things instead of this junk.

So we can say goodbye to ever long posts about Night Elves? That's great...it's about time..

[Mace]

I did not want nightborne in the horde nor did I want to suramar, I supported the nightborne as a sub-race of the night elves, it was you and other players of the alliance who wanted to exchange the night elf model for the blood elf model and when blizz exchanged models you did you celebrated.
I post this in 2016

Obviously the first option was the one that I thought was the most logical and I support

now I advocate that the nightborne have suramar because it is the racial capital of a playable race of the horde and it is obvious that it should continue to be.

your whole argument is crazy you know well we all know that what matters to mythics players are racials, are you saying that improving the alliance's racials wouldn't help?

I think everything you say is pointless asking to steal capitals from playable races is crazy. and I do not care that the alliance has good things boralus is better than zuldazar and I do not care, that the alliance has good things for me is fine. as I said I supported the nightborne and suramar were part of the night elves. if they give him good things it will seem good to me, what seems illogical to me is asking to steal capital from playable races.

but tell me according to your logic the elves of the horde would not have capital then?

- - - Updated - - -



I supported the nightborne as a subrace of the night elves and you know it! You also know that most of those who asked and celebrated that the nightborne be exchanged for the void elves were alliance players like the ravenmoon himself.
but although I would have liked the nightborne and suramar to be an alliance because for me it was something logical. now it is a racial capital of a playable race wanting to steal it is absurd
You also know that if it were up to me, I would create a faction of elves.

the horde and the alliance are different. the horde is multicultural and has a council, the alliance is more culturally uniform and they have a human-centered leader (anduin / turalyon.)

I'm not accusing you, I remember you supporting Nightborne on the alliance or neutral, (they are still a night elf sub race)

It's also okay to like the horde and liks elves the way they are on the horde even if I am convinced it really isnt good like this for the game. Sometimes brilliant seeming ideas are really not that great, but when it happens, it happens and we gotta live with it.

The most Ravenmoon and I can moan about is that it's not optimal for the game and that its hurt the factions, in particular the alliance.

But blizzard wanted the alliance hurt because they wanted players from it to populate the horde, so they took the best alliance races over and made the horde look like the alliance in part.

It's a decision that ultimately is neither good nor bad without context. In the context of faction theme and identity it was bad. For the alliance lore it was also bad. But for the player population redistribution, it was very good, and for give the horde an aesthetic race which was helpful in drawing g players, it was very good.

But what happens now the alliance needs the numbers and the factions are suffering from homogenisation and identity crises and instability?


Horde has always been multicultural so has the alliance the minute a different race entered, but the current t horde is multi themed because of elves. Elves are the alliance on the horde, and this is certainly not the wc2, Wc3 and WoW classic horde - the original warcraft theme they talk so much about preserving and mai taking by insisting on these two factions, they have destroyed by putting the elves there in such a visible and dominant manner

- - - Updated - - -

So we can say goodbye to ever long posts about Night Elves? That's great...it's about time..

We are one of the last of the old guard, there from the start who were passionate about the alliance and the night elves, all those who knew the original game have moved on long ago with a few switching horde. A few returned with classic, but not with the same community engaging passion.

You will have free reign to say all your desires largely unchallenged.. it will be good for you, but echo chambers are not good for anyone, even the people who enjoy them the most.

[Alanar]

High Elves aren't Horde. They've been Alliance since the IP's inception lol.

They never were realy an alliance race to begin with lol.

Some alliances in a war for their own benefit and left shortly afther. A few high elves stayed.. ,but you cant realy say that they are part of the alliance persee. More like temporarily.

Holding on old warcraft 2 lore isnt helping...

[elbleuet]

what you even talking about? i dont know much about stormgarde, only that kingdom got destroyed and now its rebuild(and alliance again.)
,
Silvermoon and most of the high elves left the alliance after WC2. the only a small few high elves stayed with the alliance after WC2.

So you agree that your previous statement was false by saying High elves left the Alliance. They never did. Only Silvermoon left. But High elves in Outland/Dalaran/Stormwind/Theramore but also some in various lodges did not.

- - - Updated - - -

They never were realy an alliance race to begin with lol.

Some alliances in a war for their own benefit doesnt mean they are part of the alliance persee.

Holding on old warcraft 2 lore isnt helping...

Yeah that's why the Alliance got your blood elves because they're totally not an Alliance race lol!
They should have given us High orcs instead.

[Alanar]

So you agree that your previous statement was false by saying High elves left the Alliance. They never did. Only Silvermoon left. But High elves in Outland/Dalaran/Stormwind/Theramore but also some in various lodges did not.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah that's why the Alliance got your blood elves because they're totally not an Alliance race lol!
They should have given us High orcs instead.

What are you even talking about? There is a reason a blocked you, you always talk shit lol and it shows again.

Its the other way around silly, they left and a few remained behind for what ever reason. Still doesnt make them a formal alliance race. They never were.

Those silly interactions in dalaran and warcraft 2 made players go crazy for them and all the jaleousy of alliance players is what made blizzard made that comprimise. Mattet of trying to please both, but we all know the most whining always wins. And its even more funny when the whining is coming from 2007 and onwards. Something of letting go?

[Tanaria]

I'm not accusing you, I remember you supporting Nightborne on the alliance or neutral, (they are still a night elf sub race)

It's also okay to like the horde and liks elves the way they are on the horde even if I am convinced it really isnt good like this for the game. Sometimes brilliant seeming ideas are really not that great, but when it happens, it happens and we gotta live with it.

The most Ravenmoon and I can moan about is that it's not optimal for the game and that its hurt the factions, in particular the alliance.

But blizzard wanted the alliance hurt because they wanted players from it to populate the horde, so they took the best alliance races over and made the horde look like the alliance in part.

It's a decision that ultimately is neither good nor bad without context. In the context of faction theme and identity it was bad. For the alliance lore it was also bad. But for the player population redistribution, it was very good, and for give the horde an aesthetic race which was helpful in drawing g players, it was very good.

But what happens now the alliance needs the numbers and the factions are suffering from homogenisation and identity crises and instability?


Horde has always been multicultural so has the alliance the minute a different race entered, but the current t horde is multi themed because of elves. Elves are the alliance on the horde, and this is certainly not the wc2, Wc3 and WoW classic horde - the original warcraft theme they talk so much about preserving and mai taking by insisting on these two factions, they have destroyed by putting the elves there in such a visible and dominant manner

- - - Updated - - -



We are one of the last of the old guard, there from the start who were passionate about the alliance and the night elves, all those who knew the original game have moved on long ago with a few switching horde. A few returned with classic, but not with the same community engaging passion.

You will have free reign to say all your desires largely unchallenged.. it will be good for you, but echo chambers are not good for anyone, even the people who enjoy them the most.

Oh well...your not getting Silvermoon or Suramar, and most certainly not Blood Elves and Nightborne. They are on the better faction, safe from being servants of Human overlords.

[Vaedan]

Oh well...your not getting Silvermoon or Suramar, and most certainly not Blood Elves and Nightborne. They are on the better faction, safe from being servants of Human overlords.

... only to serve as portal keepers for orc overlords. Do you remember blood elves wanted to defect your glorious Horde because they were treated like trash and were used as cannon fodder? Also do you remember how desillusioned were nightborne by the Horde in BfA?

You like to paint the picture of undying loyalty of elves to the Horde, but it is just a picture... not the reality.