Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Vaedan]

I am in favor of the high elves in silvermoon but you speak of thalassian that includes void elves, and I do not want the void elves in quelthalas because they are a danger to the sunwell.

We don't know how big threat they are. We've only seen what Alleria caused, and she is the most powerful and unique void elf, other void elves do not contain essence of dark naaru. We've also seen she had to touch Sunwell for the incident to occour, as long as she was Silvermoon, nothing happened. The solution is pretty clear, just don't allow void elves to enter Quel'danas.

Void elves also show no interest in damaging Sunwell. They started with void magic to protect Quel'thalas, not to conquer it or anything like that. We've also seen that Alleria still have great respect for Sunwell, so I guess as long as she is in charge, she would not allow it to be damaged either.

[Rhlor]

We don't know how big threat they are. We've only seen what Alleria caused, and she is the most powerful and unique void elf, other void elves do not contain essence of dark naaru. We've also seen she had to touch Sunwell for the incident to occour, as long as she was Silvermoon, nothing happened. The solution is pretty clear, just don't allow void elves to enter Quel'danas.

Void elves also show no interest in damaging Sunwell. They started with void magic to protect Quel'thalas, not to conquer it or anything like that. We've also seen that Alleria still have great respect for Sunwell, so I guess as long as she is in charge, she would not allow it to be damaged either.

We saw void elves among the forces of nzoth. Do you really think that void elves who serve the void lords won't try to cause trouble if they can go to quelthalas?

[Vaedan]

I prefer if they are canonically kicked out considering they broke the neutrality and sent Tiras'alan and more Aldors to help Theramore

In Quel'delar scenario, there were no draenei or shattari, so I would say Sunwell plateau was given to blood elves. It is, after all, their holy site. Draenei showed no real interest in Sunwell so far.

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We saw void elves among the forces of nzoth. Do you really think that void elves who serve the void lords won't try to cause trouble if they can go to quelthalas?

Did we? I don't really remember that. If you mean Horrific visions, those were not real. They represented how N'zoth IMAGINED future if he wins. That only means he probably wanted destroy Alliance through void elves and Horde through orcs, but none of it had any impact on our reality. Also, void elves don't serve void lords. They serve Alleria. Void elves are defined by their ability to not fall into the madness, it is their defining point. To be honest, we've seen far more blood elves in service of void lords/old gods then void elves... just look how many blood elves were members of Twilight Hammer.

[Tanaria]

We don't know how big threat they are. We've only seen what Alleria caused, and she is the most powerful and unique void elf, other void elves do not contain essence of dark naaru. We've also seen she had to touch Sunwell for the incident to occour, as long as she was Silvermoon, nothing happened. The solution is pretty clear, just don't allow void elves to enter Quel'danas.

Void elves also show no interest in damaging Sunwell. They started with void magic to protect Quel'thalas, not to conquer it or anything like that. We've also seen that Alleria still have great respect for Sunwell, so I guess as long as she is in charge, she would not allow it to be damaged either.

But let's be honest here.
Blizzard are not likely to do this. Neutral playable areas were not a big hit after the Pandaren fiasco and Blizzard have remained, to this day, very forthcoming about how much they didn't like that and how they are not looking at repeating again, any time soon.

Silvermoon is also a Horde Capital. High Elf refugees and Void Elves are not Horde.

[Imperator4321]

In Quel'delar scenario, there were no draenei or shattari, so I would say Sunwell plateau was given to blood elves. It is, after all, their holy site. Draenei showed no real interest in Sunwell so far.

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Did we? I don't really remember that. If you mean Horrific visions, those were not real. They represented how N'zoth IMAGINED future if he wins. That only means he probably wanted destroy Alliance through void elves and Horde through orcs, but none of it had any impact on our reality. Also, void elves don't serve void lords. They serve Alleria. Void elves are defined by their ability to not fall into the madness, it is their defining point. To be honest, we've seen far more blood elves in service of void lords/old gods then void elves... just look how many blood elves were members of Twilight Hammer.

To be honest Alleria and a lot of Void Elf NPC's come across as pretty suspect in general, i recall 2 members of the Void Elf Expidition team talk about feeding souls to the void and listening to the whispers, and a few other Void Elf npcs say similar things to horde players. Alleria's apparent desire to take Quel'thalas for the Alliance is also put in a darker light with how the Void wanted corrupt the Sunwell.

Not saying i want them to pull a corruption/madness thing with Alleria, but they seem to be implying such a direction with various comments and interactions by void elf npc's, especially since the Void Lords seem like a looming threat now that the Old Gods are dealt with.

[Vaedan]

But let's be honest here.
Blizzard are not likely to do this. Neutral playable areas were not a big hit after the Pandaren fiasco and Blizzard have remained, to this day, very forthcoming about how much they didn't like that and how they are not looking at repeating again, any time soon.

Silvermoon is also a Horde Capital. High Elf refugees and Void Elves are not Horde.

Dalaran in Legion was neutral, Oribos is neutral... Blizzard is not avoiding neutral areas. It just seems they tend to rotate neutral and faction based capitals each expansion.

Yes, I admit it is more possible it won't happen. I hope Alliance will at least get proper city for night elves and void elves, which would help a lot. Another thing is that racial capitals other than Stormwind and Orgrimmar just serve no purpose. I'd like Blizz make them important again. After playing around Ember Court in Revendreth, I think something similar could be done with capitals too. Racial capitals could be place where you could queue in scenarios and get racial themed rewards - more transmogs, mounts, toys... perhaps even glyphs... but that is just off-topic thought on the matter of capital cities.

[Rhlor]

In Quel'delar scenario, there were no draenei or shattari, so I would say Sunwell plateau was given to blood elves. It is, after all, their holy site. Draenei showed no real interest in Sunwell so far.

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Did we? I don't really remember that. If you mean Horrific visions, those were not real. They represented how N'zoth IMAGINED future if he wins. That only means he probably wanted destroy Alliance through void elves and Horde through orcs, but none of it had any impact on our reality. Also, void elves don't serve void lords. They serve Alleria. Void elves are defined by their ability to not fall into the madness, it is their defining point. To be honest, we've seen far more blood elves in service of void lords/old gods then void elves... just look how many blood elves were members of Twilight Hammer.

Sleepless Voidseeker are a faction of void elves that serve nozth
Quotes
All... the dragonflights... will follow...
Come to the darkness.
I seek... the endless dark...
The son will follow the path of the father!
There is... no way... but N'Zoth...
You cannot outlast his will!
You will know the glory of N'Zoth!
Your fate... is already known...
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sleepless_Voidseeker
the void elves on the island expeditions seem crazy and they serve the void

[Imperator4321]

Sleepless Voidseeker are a faction of void elves that serve nozth
Quotes
All... the dragonflights... will follow...
Come to the darkness.
I seek... the endless dark...
The son will follow the path of the father!
There is... no way... but N'Zoth...
You cannot outlast his will!
You will know the glory of N'Zoth!
Your fate... is already known...
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sleepless_Voidseeker
the void elves on the island expeditions seem crazy and they serve the void

Well Riftblade Kelain is just kind of smug but Shadeweaver Zarra and Duskrunner Lorinas (especially Zarra) talk about embracing the void, feeding souls to the void and listening to the whispers.

We kind of see everyone among the Black Empire (and the twilight hammer before them) forces so i wouldn't take it as a absolute condemnation of the Void Elves as just being Void servants is disguise

[Vaedan]

Sleepless Voidseeker are a faction of void elves that serve nozth
Quotes
All... the dragonflights... will follow...
Come to the darkness.
I seek... the endless dark...
The son will follow the path of the father!
There is... no way... but N'Zoth...
You cannot outlast his will!
You will know the glory of N'Zoth!
Your fate... is already known...
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sleepless_Voidseeker
the void elves on the island expeditions seem crazy and they serve the void

Well... even these are the only one seen so far and you can see that these are not aligned with the Alliance, yet there are far more blood elves in the service of Old Gods. Also they are not a faction by any means, they are just un-named NPCs without any clear heirarchy or leadership, nor distinctive members.

Island Expedition teams were made to embody the worst prejudices on these races. For example, troll team which Alliance meets talks about eating you after they kill you, but it is very well established Horde trolls are not cannibals anymore, so I'm not really sure how canon these teams actually are.

Well Riftblade Kelain is just kind of smug but Shadeweaver Zarra and Duskrunner Lorinas (especially Zarra) talk about embracing the void, feeding souls to the void and listening to the whispers.

We kind of see everyone among the Black Empire (and the twilight hammer before them) forces so i wouldn't take it as a absolute condemnation of the Void Elves as just being Void servants is disguise

As I've written above, I'm not really sure how canon these teams are. I always took them that they are the embodiment of the worst prejudices your faction have for the race that team represents - cannibal trolls, brain-dead undead, dumb-ass bloodthirsty orcs, self-centered blood elves, etc. I admit, I did only few expeditions on my Horde characters when I grinded Honorbound reputation, since I hated them and I did them only on my main, which is Alliance.

[Varodoc]

Those foolish elves from the Island Expedition team are just children playing with fire. Only those with strong resolve and willpower can dominate the Void. I'm not surprised that some found it too hard and eventually succumbed. This is true for the Void elves and for every other race.

[Vaedan]

Those foolish elves from the Island Expedition team are just children playing with fire. Only those with strong resolve and willpower can dominate the Void. I'm not surprised that some found it too hard and eventually succumbed. This is true for the Void elves and for every other race.

Well... we've already seen all races in service of the Void - humans, night elves, tauren, orcs, undead, murlocs, ogres,... so void elves are no exception. They have one big advantage over other races - they are trained how to resist whispers, so they have better chances to not fall to the madness then other races who meddle with the Void.

There is also another big difference - void elves do not worship Void or any entity connected to that. They use it as a tool, they earned these powers themselves, they were not "gifted" them by some another being, which they are then obliged to serve. Other void users got their powers from the Old Gods, whom they are obliged to serve.

[Imperator4321]

Well... even these are the only one seen so far and you can see that these are not aligned with the Alliance, yet there are far more blood elves in the service of Old Gods. Also they are not a faction by any means, they are just un-named NPCs without any clear heirarchy or leadership, nor distinctive members.

Island Expedition teams were made to embody the worst prejudices on these races. For example, troll team which Alliance meets talks about eating you after they kill you, but it is very well established Horde trolls are not cannibals anymore, so I'm not really sure how canon these teams actually are.



As I've written above, I'm not really sure how canon these teams are. I always took them that they are the embodiment of the worst prejudices your faction have for the race that team represents - cannibal trolls, brain-dead undead, dumb-ass bloodthirsty orcs, self-centered blood elves, etc. I admit, I did only few expeditions on my Horde characters when I grinded Honorbound reputation, since I hated them and I did them only on my main, which is Alliance.

I'd say we just lack representatives in general for the Void Elves, aside from Umbric and Alleria the Riftrunners are about the closest Void Elves have to having characters that aren't faction leaders

So we have Alleria and Umbric who talk about not listening to the whispers, discipline, ect, then we get the Riftrunners where 2/3rds of them are some variety of unhinged void cultists (and then theres the other unnamed void elves who also come across as suspect talking about the wonders of the void and such).

Compare Umbrics
"The shadows serve us."
"Maintain focus and control."
"Do not bend to the whispers."

To Shadeweaver Zarra and Duskrunner Lorinas
"Here! We land here, just like the whispers say! Yes! Hahaha. Yes yes yes."
"Exquisite souls for the Void!"
"What a pitiful group. Prepare to be consumed."
"Ah... the darkness... embraces me..."
"Embrace the Void!"

[Vaedan]

I'd say we just lack representatives in general for the Void Elves, aside from Umbric and Alleria the Riftrunners are about the closest Void Elves have to having characters that aren't faction leaders

So we have Alleria and Umbric who talk about not listening to the whispers, discipline, ect, then we get the Riftrunners where 2/3rds of them are some variety of unhinged void cultists (and then theres the other unnamed void elves who also come across as suspect talking about the wonders of the void and such).

Same could be said about trolls, aside from Rokhan, 2/3 of representatives look like cannibalistic brutes thanks to island expeditions...

If you also listen to void elf voice lines, they are all about maintaining focus, caution and control, none of them look like unhinged void cultist. The representation of void elves on the Alliance is pretty clear. I wouldn't count island expedition team as anything significant, especially when they behave in direct contrast to what void elves are generaly pictured, which only strenghtens my feeling these teams are not entirely canon.

I agree void elves lack distinctive characters though and there is also lack of new lore. I guess it needs some time before we see more of them.

[ravenmoon]

i have never seen someone so delusional. there are so many ways to build up Night elves and High/void elves without taking things from the horde.

ofc there are, I'm not delusional, as I recognise there are. This is just the best, most efficient and most effective way for all the reasons I've been harping on about in the last 7 pages. Guys like you balk at this cos you don't wanna lose that stuff from the horde - I'm not saying your feelings aren't legit, they are, and you have a right to feel them, doesn't stop that outcome being the best. and losing Silvermoon and Suramar is not the end of the world either, who knows it might actually be a better development for the both the horde and the remnant group in so many ways.

[Imperator4321]

Same could be said about trolls, aside from Rokhan, 2/3 of representatives look like cannibalistic brutes thanks to island expeditions...

If you also listen to void elf voice lines, they are all about maintaining focus, caution and control, none of them look like unhinged void cultist. The representation of void elves on the Alliance is pretty clear. I wouldn't count island expedition team as anything significant, especially when they behave in direct contrast to what void elves are generaly pictured, which only strenghtens my feeling these teams are not entirely canon.

I agree void elves lack distinctive characters though and lack of new lore. I guess it needs some time before we see more of them.

True but Trolls also had characterization from WC3 and previous expansions to give them non-cannibalistic brutes characters so the Headhunters come across as more oddities than general depiction of those races. It's just a side effect of the Void Elves being new and so they haven't had a solidified perception of them from how they've appeared. Especially since as far as dialogue and characterization among the Void Elves goes the Riftrunners were the only ones to get much aside from Umbric and Alleria

I like how they characterized Umbric in the War Campaign and i'm hoping the Riftrunners do just end up being random oddities among the Void Elves.

[Rhlor]

Well... we've already seen all races in service of the Void - humans, night elves, tauren, orcs, undead, murlocs, ogres,... so void elves are no exception. They have one big advantage over other races - they are trained how to resist whispers, so they have better chances to not fall to the madness then other races who meddle with the Void.

There is also another big difference - void elves do not worship Void or any entity connected to that. They use it as a tool, they earned these powers themselves, they were not "gifted" them by some another being, which they are then obliged to serve. Other void users got their powers from the Old Gods, whom they are obliged to serve.

at least the elves void we see in the expeditions seemed to worship the void. even alleria seems more unstable lately from what the latest books tell us. and as I showed you void elves joined nzoth and adored him!

I think it is better to avoid trouble and that the void elves are not allowed to go to quelthalas.

[Tanaria]

Void Elves play with the Void, they pay the price with exile.

Also, their studies are taken from the Quel'Thalas traitor, Dark'han Drathir. Is anyone shocked that Rommath demanded they be exiled?

High Elves can move to Stormwind
Night Elves are already moving to Hyjal.

Leave us Horde alone with our cities. If you want them, play the red side.

[Vaedan]

at least the elves void we see in the expeditions seemed to worship the void. even alleria seems more unstable lately from what the latest books tell us. and as I showed you void elves joined nzoth and adored him!

I think it is better to avoid trouble and that the void elves are not allowed to go to quelthalas.

Just few un-named NPCs at only one location (Karazhan dungeon). There are way more blood elves joining and adoring N'zoth, all over the world, so ban all blood elves from Sunwell, you say?

Also, Alleria is special case. Her fate is not the fate of whole race, in the same way all blood elves did not ended as Kael'thas did.

Void Elves play with the Void, they pay the price with exile.

Also, their studies are taken from the Quel'Thalas traitor, Dark'han Drathir. Is anyone shocked that Rommath demanded they be exiled?

High Elves can move to Stormwind
Night Elves are already moving to Hyjal.

Leave us Horde alone with our cities. If you want them, play the red side.

They took up his research, not his ideas or motivations. They research void to protect Quel'thalas, not to gain more power, as Dark'han did. It is controversial decision, I agree, but blood elves were not really hesitant to tap into dangerous sources of magic.

[Tanaria]

Just few un-named NPCs at only one location (Karazhan dungeon). There are way more blood elves joining and adoring N'zoth, all over the world, so ban all blood elves from Sunwell, you say?

Also, Alleria is special case. Her fate is not the fate of whole race, in the same way all blood elves did not ended as Kael'thas did.

Exiled Blood Elves not following and not part of Quel'Thalas law.

If you break said law, you get punished.

The Blood Elves in Quel'Thalas are following standard Quel'Thalas law.
Look - this Thalassian utopia where Silvermoon becomes neutral isn't and shouldn't happen. Why should a Horde City be turned? Can Ironforge or the Exodar become neutral please then?

[ravenmoon]

you saw the post he put on ravenmoon and created a celebratory thread about the night elf and blood elf model exchange, he clearly said that he was never really interested in night elves and that he only played them because he couldn't play high elf and now that the void elves were playable in the alliance the night elves mattered little to him.

And a man's allowed to change his mind, i was a big advocate of elven unification, then elven conflict, and then back again, - I've just concluded actually the main problem is Elves on the horde. It's not working, it doesn't fit, and I don't think blizzard should be destroying their original horde just to make them work or stay there - not when the horde now only needs the models not the elf promotion and proliferation, glorification and assets on it. That's just bragging rights stuff that the alliance should be getting for an alliance race and encouraging/enticing players to switch to alliance and get passionately into playing them again. They know full well these elves matter more to alliance players than all it's races, they counted on that fact when they made the blood elves horde to lure a lot of these players over.

Now the horde no longer needs brighter alliance assets on it, it just needs the models to stay on, the shiny elves are actually ruining the vibe and integrity of the horde as it is making it too alliancey and simultaneously dulling and depriving the alliance - by making the best aspects of it horde. I know hordies have enjoyed the irony a lot, but it's time to end it. And have delighted in the torment it's caused alliance. You've had your kick for 14 years now, it's enough. It's at the heart of what's wrong with the whole faction set up. Alliance needs those elves, horde needs them gone - the solution really is straightforward, it would neither end Belves and Nightborne from being playable, nor will it end Warcraft, but rather it would heal the biggest problems with the factions. I see that now, which is why I'm no longer promoting swapping or conflict or unification, this is the problem right here: The Thalassian and Kaldorei civilizations and the majority of the elves should not be on the horde. Elves on the horde should be a minor thing, they should be big and established on the alliance.

He was one of the biggest advocates of race swapping. if you offer him Silvermoon without a doubt he will exchange all kalimdor

Do not presume to know what I'd pick. I'll tell you plainly, I'd have Suramar it's own night elven kingdom, both factions would have access to it, but the Nightborne would predominantly be interacting and involved with the alliance races, and them and the kaldorei would be working things out in a long term story development arc concerning elves.

The night elves would have Kalimdor north and western portions where they'll continue to grow and develop in their own separate nation - I'd rather they not be alliance but neutral, but in the case where they have to be, they'd be alliance ofc.

There would be no exchange with Silvermoon, because Silvermoon would be high elven and with the alliance. New roles and places would be written for the void elves too, likely taking charge of Ghostlands and building a twin city there with a new future for the Thalassian people. blood elves, the remnant who chose to remain so and loyal to the horde would settle in Azshara and in time grow towns and cities there. I'd probably have the goblin city bombed, and restore Kezan and Undermine as two new goblin strongholds, allowing the blood elves to take over. the horde loyal Nightborne would be bound to the hip with them, their destiny tied and linked to them because that's exactly what the horde fans who want them want and care about. They don't care about anything deep about the Nightborne, just that the Nightborne stay as arm candy to the blood elves, and so that's exactly what the remnant Nightborne would be.. portal and chrono highly specialised experts.

There will be no exchange here. What the horde get for losing Quel'thalas/Silvermoon and Suramar are more Troll, Orc, Goblin and Tauren stuff. In comes Zul'drak, Zul'aman (for conflict with alliance controlled Quel'thalas), Zul'farak (redesigned). Undermine city, Kezan city. Gromash city (for Mag'har orcs in Northrend). And Icecrown Citadel and Dark Theramore for the forsaken.

Horde will lose Suramar, Quel'thalas (incl Silvermoon), lose Feralas and Desolace. Stonetalon, Moonglade, Hyjal are druid territories. In stonetalon, elves and tauren leave peacefully learning druidic ways - both groups protect it so that what happened under Garrosh never does