Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Varodoc]

they could use this thread
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...cussion-thread

That would be good, yes. This thread is supposed to be about Thalassian elves.

[ravenmoon]

they could use this thread
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...cussion-thread

You won't deflect so easily, night elves are been spoken about in context to high elves, as part of the same point that is been made about High elves on the alliance getting Silvermoon and Quel'thalas. The inclusion of night elves is quite relevant and doesn't require a separate conversation because it's not exclusively about the night elves.

This is the second time you have attempted to deflect this away from the discussion. If you are tired of it, simply start talking about something else relating to high elves on the alliance, and others would be free to discuss this with you as well as they are free not to respond to discussions about the alliance getting the Thalassian high elven assets and the kaldorei civilization assets.

I know it makes you uncomfortable, I'm not doing this to make you comfortable or uncomfortable, I mention it because I believe it is the best course of action for the game to take regarding the factions and its playable races. The elves' anamolous celebrity on the horde is why this topic is so long and the alliance is so wanting atm. The solution is high elves on the alliance with Silvermoon and Quel'thlaas in tow, and Suramar on the alliance too - as the elves are fully restored on the alliance and become a remnant on the horde, as I have explained in detail

[Rhlor]

You won't deflect so easily, night elves are been spoken about in context to high elves, as part of the same point that is been made about High elves on the alliance getting Silvermoon and Quel'thalas. The inclusion of night elves is quite relevant and doesn't require a separate conversation because it's not exclusively about the night elves.

This is the second time you have attempted to deflect this away from the discussion. If you are tired of it, simply start talking about something else relating to high elves on the alliance, and others would be free to discuss this with you as well as they are free not to respond to discussions about the alliance getting the Thalassian high elven assets and the kaldorei civilization assets.

I know it makes you uncomfortable, I'm not doing this to make you comfortable or uncomfortable, I mention it because I believe it is the best course of action for the game to take regarding the factions and its playable races. The elves' anamolous celebrity on the horde is why this topic is so long and the alliance is so wanting atm. The solution is high elves on the alliance with Silvermoon and Quel'thlaas in tow, and Suramar on the alliance too - as the elves are fully restored on the alliance and become a remnant on the horde, as I have explained in detail

Another user also asked about why this topic is used when it is about high elves and I passed him the link of another thread where night elves and nightborne are discussed.

I am not going to argue with you again about something that I think is ridiculous, I only ask that you please do not talk about a horde favourism again and that the horde asked the nightborne when it is not true the alliance players among which You were asked to be exchanged, not the horde players and I in particular supported the nightborne to be a sub-race of the night elves.

[Traveler Voltin]

Another user also asked about why this topic is used when it is about high elves and I passed him the link of another thread where night elves and nightborne are discussed.

I am not going to argue with you again about something that I think is ridiculous, I only ask that you please do not talk about a horde favourism again and that the horde asked the nightborne when it is not true the alliance players among which You were asked to be exchanged, not the horde players and I in particular supported the nightborne to be a sub-race of the night elves.

some horde players did ask. both alliance and horde did want playable nightborne. i saw a few threads on both sides.

[Rhlor]

some horde players did ask. both alliance and horde did want playable nightborne. i saw a few threads on both sides.

I do not remember. I remember some said they were a neutral race.

[Alanar]

So we will keep on whining to get what we want to get. Normal hairs, farstrider tattoos aaaand maybe Silvermoon being contested



That's why every wow expansion gave us Alliance High elves npcs. Try again



I don't even know who you are. You must be new here, aren't you ?
Seriously don't be mad. This is just a game No need to be aggressive.

That is your argument? Weak sauce

Lets say it again..
Dont quote me ever again please. Idk why you slip through the cracks, but this shows why you are on ignore.

So lets not try again nab.

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This is cope and historical revisionism beyond belief.

The HE are historically an Alliance race and any that aligned themselves with the Horde are known as Blood Elves now. I'm tired of this same idiotic argument from Horde stans and I'm not taking it further than this. If you can't understand that then there's no point in replying further anyway.

The Alliance have been represented in-game by the HE since forever. That link has never been broken. Alliance fans are only asking it to be represented in a playable state. It has never, and will never have anything to do with the Horde, and general Horde insecurity isn't an excuse to not implement it.

You dont get it. Take away the fancy words and just accept the fact they are not an alliance race persee.

A few stayed behind, majority went back.

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Actually it does.

A race fighting for the Alliance since the very beginning of Warcraft is an Alliance race.

Numbers are don't matter. See the void elves.
Having a capital city doesn't matter either. See the worgens. A race without a capital of their own.

Doesnt matter, general is right.

When a few stayed behind and the majority left.. doesnt make it an alliance race. You are clearly missing the point.

Its not hard. I would love to see you try, but its always coming down to old lore arguments, refugees might be the word you are looking for.

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Don't kid yourself - read the lines and between them. Everything the alliance is built on, it's behaviour, tendencies are because of the elf and human collaboration.. Whether Quel'thalas was all into the alliance or not, the humans' civilization, characteristics of all the things the alliance stands for, including its nobility are very much in the high elves and in the lore are mostly taught to the humans by the high elves, who in turn are from the Kaldorei.

They are basically "better" or perfect Humans, they are the ideal of the alliance, and very much played a part alongside humans in everything. You don't get more alliance core than elves and humans in this universe. Even after TBC, when most blood elves were part of the horde, the race remains.

The Nightborne is the embodiment of the best of the kaldorei civilization, coming down from the conceit of the invasion period of the pre-sundering era, embracing the original kaldorei nobility that the Highborne and Kaldorei from noble to commoner embodied. We see this in Thalyssra and the Nightborne - all of this is the same strain that pervades the alliance.

Your blood elves and Nightborne are basically idealised and better humans on the horde - how the freck do you think that makes sense or is good for the alliance? Blizzard intentionally pedalled on the humanisation of the elves adn the better version of humanity they brought, because they felt this would make the horde or part of the horde more relatable and attractive.

It worked, but I think it was more because the models were hot, but still it did influence as many alliance minded elf fans switched.

So to think the high elves weren't really alliance is being either stupid, blind or stubborn - as if the tenure of their membership is what is been talked about here.

As mace says, you don't give the opposite faction better humans and expect the original faction to not be affected.. and then when it's pointed out you choose to ignore everything it means and play "plausible deniability" - yeh..right.. I'm not buying.

don't expect the alliance to grow and heal when half of it is flourishing on the horde, remove the bulk of what is on the horde and put it back on the alliance.. let the alliance be the full alliance, let the horde be the horde. And watch things equalise. The horde doesn't need the kaldorei civilization and/or the Thalassians too, those are alliance, it doesn't need tons of blood elves and Nightborne, it just needs them to remain playable, and that can happen with a remnant amount. Just like the void elves and kaldorei currently are, a remnant - this is what the Nightborne and blood elves should be.

It's just insane, the horde has all their races and the two best alliance races, with the best of those races on it. What ridiculous favouritism that is unwarranted.. then you wonder why the Horde grossly out numbers the alliance, and no one wants to play in the alliance.. open your eyes. Say no to voluntary blindness, stupidity and ignorance.

Infracted.

Stop trying ravenmoon. You are wrong on so many levels..
You make a huge fool out of yourself

[elbleuet]

That is your argument? Weak sauce

Lets say it again..
Dont quote me ever again please. Idk why you slip through the cracks, but this shows why you are on ignore.

So why are you quoting me again just beneath ? Again, I don't know who you are and I really don't care about your opinions. You're fueling this thread with personal attacks that have 0 place in this thread. So just put me on ignore, I won't see the difference
And remember, this is just a game. So just go out and take a breath of fresh air.

High elves were always an Alliance race. That's why Blizzard gave us first void elves, and then High elves.

[ravenmoon]

Stop trying ravenmoon. You are wrong on so many levels..
You make a huge fool out of yourself

What's wrong? What I say? or how I feel?

you say these things but can't prove how so wrong they are. To be honest, you horde fans on here and many sites are so predominant, you've really creatd your own bubbles and sentiments far removed from what most players think.

You sit down and discuss things, fill your heads with your own ideas, cry down any challengers like a swarm, then re-inforce your incorrect sentiments and feel this is how everyone feels and things. You then call people who disagree or challenge you - "huge fools", "crazy", "addicts" etc, your are really divorced from how a lot of alliance players and other fans who just don't post here feel, most of them largely because you've cried them out of the forums.

Now you're going to attempt to prove that how someone feels is wrong - great, feelings police. You are allowed to feel differently and interprete differently, but don't go calling people huge fools for seeing things another way, especially when they provide detailed reasons as to how they feel and why and the basis behind that. All you need do is read and open your eyes.

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So why are you quoting me again just beneath ? Again, I don't know who you are and I really don't care about your opinions. You're fueling this thread with personal attacks that have 0 place in this thread. So just put me on ignore, I won't see the difference
And remember, this is just a game. So just go out and take a breath of fresh air.

High elves were always an Alliance race. That's why Blizzard gave us first void elves, and then High elves.

I just think he is angry Elbleuet because you don't agree with him and the points you make, when they are valid fly in the face of what he has convinced himself is the truth. people get offended when their beliefs and dogma's are exposed or questioned - especially when their challengers have valid points -because it breaks their false fantasy, and they don't take it kindly. Now not everyone reacts like that, some people consider what is been said then question how they feel and adjust... but this horde elf loving crowd here knows it doesn't have to because it has 10 people that would back whatever they say as long as it is in favour of horde elves - because that's what they want to keep on the horde and talking about high elves, giving the alliance high elves, the alliance reclaiming Silvermoon or Quel'thalas and actually having a good reason why this should happen totally threatens them (they feel - it actually doesn't - but it threatens what they wanna keep), the same for the Nightborne and Suramar who are night elven assets and civilization elves that are unchanged in anyway except from the alliance except for their loyalties lying with the horde - it's so obvious these are alliance people and races sitting on the horde. And these guys don't care about that, just wanna keep what's clearly not a horde themed race and asset but an alliance one.

• It's clear also they dilute the identity and compromise the integrity of the horde from the original theme and framework it had by being so visible and prominent their.
• It is also clear, as the devs themselves admitted this many times, that the reason the blood elves were placed on there was to make the horde more popular. This was achieved long ago, and now it's the alliance that is unpopular bleeding more numbers to the horde - yet it is foolish to state that one of the most efficient ways to solve this and the best approach would be to return the elven alliance assets and the bulk of what they've been magnified and edified on the horde back to the alliance.
• How does it make sense to have the nicest aspects of the alliance, and alliance themes plastered all over the horde? It's not good for the alliance, it compromises the horde, and it is why alliance fans feel it's been rubbed in their faces - especially when their elves are always shown as lesser, given less (currentlyt hey're all refugees with none of the great assets of their races' cultures or lore - those are all on the horde - I mean really? And they think this is okay?

I'm not being anti horde or vicious or vindictive at all, I don't want the horde destroyed or diminished which is why I suggested it was in its best interest that the alliance elven assets it loses be replaced by troll, orc, tauren and goblin assets. I genuinely feel the franchise and the factions will be much better for it with this shift.

The alliance and their fans are very keen and interested on the elves, this has been the case since forever and topics like this prove it. Most of the horde fans interested are a small group of former alliance fans gone horde specifically for the elves and playing horde elves - a lot of hardcore horde fans are not that interested, actually want less elven influence, involvement and visibility on the horde, and the few of them who opposes it tend to just not want to lose stuff because of this rivalry thing going on.

Yet they think it is okay that the horde has all the assets of it's races plus 2 of the alliance's best races sitting on it, leaving the alliance with only more of humans, dwarves, gnomes, draenei and worgen - how is that fair? No wonder everyone heads to the horde, it has both the best of the horde and the best of the alliance races sitting shining and visible on it.

This is bad for the theme too, because the factions feel more the same, less distinct too, and the alliance is definitely the worse of it cos it's its core races that are shown off better on the horde - it's not good.

Fix it by taking the bulk of the elves, their visibility, promotion and glorification off the horde and back to the alliance, this will build and repair the alliance, please its fans. Replace the high elven and night elven assets the horde loses in the blood elves and Nightborne with Troll , orc and goblin assets, even forsaken ones to a lesser extent, this will also please the horde fans too, and consolidate it's theme and identity.

All it takes is mostly undoing the elven build up that was borrowed to the horde to boost its numbers. It fixes so much, it's suggested and observed by me, not in malice or hate for the horde or anything like that.. it's clear I'm not horde hating, not even elf horde hating, just showing that the problem is elves proliferating and shining on the horde is not a good thing.

Yet i am villified for this.. and by whom? The horde elf loving crowd, who refuse to see the problem having the both the best of the Thalassian and Kaldorei civilization and assets, the best of the alliance on it's enemy faction is problematic. Why I ask myself? Because they like being superior to alliance players and the alliance. They get a kick out of it and bragging rights because of the rivalry that blizzard has promoted.. there is no logic to oppose this, and given what we are seeing of the state of both factions, the number disparity, the desires and interest of the fans, it couldn't be more clear. Yet intelligent people are in full denial choosing to be blind to maintain only what they perceive is their advantage (which it really isn't), instead of actually pursuing truth and facts and what's better for the game.

It's messed up, and I think it's because they've been re-enforcing their dogma in the echo chamber they've created on many of these forums. Hounding and bullying anyone who dares say something contrary to what they believe. It's funny, but the alliance desire for high elves was so strong all their efforts failed and just ended up exposing that it was a small minority of vocal fans that have been harassing and hounding this issue on the forums - opposing every suggestion and post by anyone who writes about

1. High elves returning or increasing/being played on the alliance
2. Night elves pre-sundering civilization and arcane mastery playing a more visible role

Why because these things are what the blood elves on the horde are the beset at in the current setting - at least visibly.. they won't challenge the lore that shows that the blood elves are high elves, and it's a Thalassian legacy, nor the lore that tells the night elves went further than this, and those practitioners still around are more advanced.. no.. the problem is when it becomes visible , like it did with Suramar, then and only then they want it, and whine for it.

When the high elves are shown in a positive and strong light, you see them say the most awful things about them, they should be exterminated, deleted, you saw Alleria who was missing and greatly venerated by them, all of a sudden now just a human whore and awfully written character for no reason than she was established on her return as being loyal to the alliance as a high elf - and then all the negativity started - from who? Horde elf fans, the story wasn't bad at all. They just didn't like it...because it made alliance look good and raise the profile of alliance elves in a way that made them envy.

So they echoed back and forth, with their overwhelming numbers, and when you tell them that the hardcore majority on wow are horde, they deny it, tell you that no, alliance is just as popular, yet those who play alliance continue to see guilds fails, groups sparing, queues hard to form, numbers dwindling, has been the case for several expansions and it's really bad now. But they will tell you it's not true.. remember the 30% buff? How they complain it's unfair because they get ganked, and the alliance is just as popular as the horde - yeh. right.. the buff is at the max setting because of how few alliance are engaging because the horde dominates in most areas, and unless they form small tight parties or raid groups they get nothing done.

I know this because i play both factions. I know what I see on the ground. Therefore I am unmoved when people like him or Rhlor tell me I'm wrong or foolish etc, I know they're in their own echo chamber, having bubbled themselves in their own interpretations, and their challenge proves to me they don't want to know what the truth is, or care to accept anyone else's view. and the irony is they call me stubborn for not agreeing with their many chorused dogma. Well ofc I'm stubborn, I'm not letting go of the truth just because 10 of them tell me over and over again that it's not true. Offering zero proof. Not realising I am aware enough to realise opinion is not proof.

[Rhlor]

So we will keep on whining to get what we want to get. Normal hairs, farstrider tattoos aaaand maybe Silvermoon being contested



That's why every wow expansion gave us Alliance High elves npcs. Try again



I don't even know who you are. You must be new here, aren't you ?
Seriously don't be mad. This is just a game No need to be aggressive.

I am even in favor of the void elves having green eyes since the silvermoon scholar are part of their society in Telogrus.

The only thing that I think is ridiculous and absurd is wanting to steal the racial capital of another playable race.

[Traveler Voltin]

i have learned that people really dont care about the night elves and high/void elves. they just want to take horde stuff and use it as a half assed excuse

[elbleuet]

i have learned that people really dont care about the night elves and high/void elves. they just want to take horde stuff and use it as a half assed excuse

Since blood elves, void elves and high elves are also in the Alliance, that's not just Horde stuff

Void elves in particular, still do consider Quel'Thalas as their homeland. Time for some Horde players to recognize it.

All hints point towards Silvermoon assaulted by the Alliance, Alleria and the void elves. And with Turalyon - supported by Alleria- wanting to reclaim former Alliance holdings...

[Traveler Voltin]

Since blood elves, void elves and high elves are also in the Alliance, that's not just Horde stuff

Void elves in particular, still do consider Quel'Thalas as their homeland. Time for some Horde players to recognize it.

All hints point towards Silvermoon assaulted by the Alliance, Alleria and the void elves. And with Turalyon - supported by Alleria- wanting to reclaim former Alliance holdings...

just because they want it doesnt mean they are going to get it.

its always demands with alliance players. they can never build on their own land they need to try and take horde things.

[Redzonetode]

its always demands with alliance players. they can never build on their own land they need to try and take horde things.

lol, do you really believe this

[Traveler Voltin]

lol, do you really believe this

i believe certain alliance players want horde things(Silvermoon and Suramar) because they have some grand delusion that they belong to the alliance.
it was be much easier for Night elves and high/elves to build towns in alliance lands.

[Ardenaso]

They aren't in the position to deny anything to the Alliance.

Alleria alone could single-handedly tear down that pathetic little band of fanatics. All she needs to do is teleport inside their shabby, derelict chapel and tear open a rift for Void minions to come through (or Alliance troops, either would work). The pesky Death Knights almost accomplished this and they can't hold a candle to Alleria Windrunner.

If the Crusade dares lay a finger on them, they'll be reunited with that useless old man Fordring.

they didn't have the Ashbringer that time I'd think Liadrin returned it to them after Legion

and yes, Eastweald deserves to be Horde since it is Lordaeron territory, and so Quel'lithien deserves to be brought back to Quel'thalas

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it was be much easier for Night elves and high/elves to build towns in alliance lands.

Eldre'thalas would be a very nice stronghold for Highborne and High Elves, that's enough for Alliance

[Varodoc]

they didn't have the Ashbringer that time I'd think Liadrin returned it to them after Legion

and yes, Eastweald deserves to be Horde since it is Lordaeron territory, and so Quel'lithien deserves to be brought back to Quel'thalas

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Eldre'thalas would be a very nice stronghold for Highborne and High Elves, that's enough for Alliance

Eastweald doesn't "deserve" anything. Have you forgotten that many former Lordaeron citizens are in the Alliance?

As for Ashbringer, it's powerless now. Remember that these artifact toys were drained of their power to remove the corruption seeping from the sword of Sargeras.

[Ardenaso]

Have you forgotten that many former Lordaeron citizens are in the Alliance?

I thought they returned to Hearthglen after Tirion reclaimed it from the Scarlet Crusade; I'm thinking the same for Tyr's Hand

[Ielenia]

show claims of the people of Silvermoon or else you are full of crap.

Back before Cataclysm, you'd see on the streets blood elves speaking to a crowd about how joining the Horde was a mistake, that they should be with the Alliance. Eventually a blood elf priest is summoned to mind-control the dissidents, and there is the implication that this is not the first time this happens.

[ravenmoon]

some horde players did ask. both alliance and horde did want playable nightborne. i saw a few threads on both sides.

Indeed, both did. Reddit responders were largely horde, any alliance asking for Nightborne were told they fit the horde a b/s argument ofc, and on reddit, they dont read more than 2 lines, so thorough cross examination or challenge fell on deaf ears and was often drowned out quickly. Horde elf fanbase operates strongly on reddit for those where these things matter

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i have learned that people really dont care about the night elves and high/void elves. they just want to take horde stuff and use it as a half assed excuse

Well, the amount of lore posts on high elves, night elves beg to differ, the vast majority from alliance fans, especially regarding night elves and nightborne.

Ofc when allinace fans talk about high elves, and dare to express a wish of having them playable, horde elf fans swarm topics attempting to convince them how absurd their desires or wishes are, and how ridiculous and impossible such a thing it.

I have been around since these discussions started you know, you only need read through this topic to confirm this.

And yet a horde elf fan comes on making claims about alliance taking horde stuff.. it's so laughable, fully aware the very stuff in question is actually alliance stuff. It is the high elf kingdom, and the high elf race that were loaned to the horde to boost it's numbers, they don't belong to the horde, and they are alliance that is on the horde. No longer necessary too, as the horde doesn't need anything more than the models accessible. The rest of the stuff, territories, assets, lore/narrative population can all return to the alliance who needs them to potentially draw some of those horde lf fans back and increase the allinace numbers to match the horde's at the most passionate level of the game.

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Since blood elves, void elves and high elves are also in the Alliance, that's not just Horde stuff

Void elves in particular, still do consider Quel'Thalas as their homeland. Time for some Horde players to recognize it.

All hints point towards Silvermoon assaulted by the Alliance, Alleria and the void elves. And with Turalyon - supported by Alleria- wanting to reclaim former Alliance holdings...

Exactly, he's talking about the alliance stuff that's on the horde, none of us are convinced. We all know everything that's blood elven in Quel'thalas is alliance stuff on the horde.

I remember the many topics and many essays Mace and I write on Night elves Nightborne, high elves and their lore, I know horde fans do not share the enthusiasm over the Nightborne and Night elves.. I admit they do over the blood elf version of the high elves. When we talk about high elves it quickly descends either back to blood elven developments or many page long fights of horde elf fans trying to dissuade alliance fans from desiring high elves. They just crap all over high elf appearances and characters.. they offer nothing constructive but irrational hate filled nonsense.

Remember Alleria's return? They were enthusiastic about her, then because she arrived alliance centric - the hate just poured in on how terrible everything was.
Whether it was the Allerian stronghold, the Silver Covenant, Vereesa, any involvement of high elves is criticised - by whom.

Anything, anything in favour of the alliance with elves.. whether it's high elves, or even night elves - anything that takes any spotlight from the horde side. Regardless, doesn't matter if it's asking for the model to be playable, or a different version of it - the very existence of high elves is despised because they don't want the alliance and the high elves becoming a thing. They love that blizzard gave the horde better humans. The heartbeat and best iteration of the alliance is actually horde - they love that, revel in it, the superiority and bragging rights and scorn they can have over alliance fans.

It doesn't matter if you are reasonable or ridiculous in what you request, or what you desire, it doesn't matter to them, it will be opposed. you have nearly 1,200 pages on this thread proving it. They will oppose it.

Here I come, identifying what I am certain is the part of the massive problem with the factions that can solve the alliance problems both in lore and gameplay population and the horde as well. It doesn't hurt the horde, in fact the benefit is greater when you think that Troll/Orcs/Goblins/Tauren and even forsaken would get increases replacing the lost blood elven and Nightborne assets and restoring the core identity .. just by the prominence of the very alliance blood elven and Nightborne their being severely reduced and them being re-established on the alliance.

It will work, it is the solution, but regardless of whatever we say, suggest, desire, want - regardless of how perfect, good, ordinary, bad or very bad, as long as it is pereceived to somehow benefit the alliance with elves - they will always oppose and deny it.

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just because they want it doesnt mean they are going to get it.

its always demands with alliance players. they can never build on their own land they need to try and take horde things.

I'm sure you see the irony over blood elves and Nightborne here.

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Eldre'thalas would be a very nice stronghold for Highborne and High Elves, that's enough for Alliance

Please tell me why the 7,000 year old established and traditional home of the High elves, friends, co-founders and greatest influencers of the human race, isn't enough or suitable for the alliance?

Or the original home of the majority of the Darnassians, the city many of them came from and most deeply tied ot them in their lore and the majority of it's occupants aren't suitable or fitting for the alliance they basically embody in every thing but name?

Surely you should be challenging the horde retaining so much alliance visibility, people and characteristics which is all the blood elves and Nightborne are. Surely the franchise, it's lore and it's core faction theme is better served by the blood elves in Quel'thalas returning as high elves to the alliance. And the Nightborne in Suramar ultimately bonding strongly with their Highborne kin, kaldorei, high elven, void elven, like minded human, gnomes and Draenei all on the alliance from which this kaldorei civilization is basically the oldest and most advanced version of the civilization humanity and the alliance is built upon.

Why on earth is it on the horde? And now it is, why is it remaining there? It needs to return, and it will be better served.

[Traveler Voltin]

Eastweald doesn't "deserve" anything. Have you forgotten that many former Lordaeron citizens are in the Alliance?

As for Ashbringer, it's powerless now. Remember that these artifact toys were drained of their power to remove the corruption seeping from the sword of Sargeras.

i doubt there are many living lordaeron people left. the largest settlement of them is currently a magic crater.