Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Vaedan]

I mean if the Grand Alliance can send forces to Silithus and Eastern Plaguelands back in Classic/Vanilla they can also do so to Ghostlands and Eversong

Quel'thalas was cut off by Plaguelands, an area extremely dangerous at the time and fully under control of the Scourge. Forsaken or Crusaders had very little holdings there at the time and were fighting tooth and nails here. Silithus is largely different case, the whole area was being look over by Cenarion Circle who invited both Horde and the Alliance and surrounding regions were not under control of any hostile force.

Don't forget the timeline too. By the time Arthas got to Quel'thalas, Alliance was already in ruins and elves thought they can endure by themselves. In fact, it was elves who abandoned the Alliance first, since they left it and when plague began to spread, they didn't provide much help either, which ultimately results in humans being not really fond of elves later on. At the time Alliance and Horde get to Silithus, they were both reformed and restored factions.

Also, if elves can so easily forgive trolls hundreds and hundreds of years of slaughtering, why some of them can't forgive humans mistakes of Third War?

Agreed. LF Draenei, like HM Tauren, are wasted slots. They are literally just normal draenei/tauren with a bunch of additions no one cares about.

The Nightborne were also a wasted slot in their current state. They are so ugly and are severely lacking in customization options. They have only 3 skin tones while the Void elves have like 20 by now.

Void elves were always the best Legion allied race by far, and the gap keeps widening with the addition of fair skin tones.

I don't want to use the word "rushed", but it really does feel like 3/4 of the Legion allied races were rushed for the BfA preorder bonus. Compare the LF Draenei and HM Tauren to the vulpera or even kul tirans, there's no comparison. I know people always make fun of kul tirans for being fat, but a lot of work went into them because they have a unique skeleton.

Whole difference between HMT and LF Draenei and their parent races is essentialy what is now being added to core races in SL customizations - tattoos, new horns, hair, beards, jewellery. Both of them don't bring anything new to their racial theme as well... HMT are just tauren who are living in the mountains, LFD are just draenei, but only more fanatic. Now I find it reasonable why are people asking for Broken draenei in slot of LFD, since it would eventually add something new and I'd say cooler to our option.

Void elves eventually turned out to be succesful addition, most complains I see are towards lack of proper introduction and background for them. Compare it to Nightborne, who were on the spotlight whole Legion with Suramar, they felt like natural addition to the game. Void elves come out of nowhere and many people needed time to accept them with such fast paced "introduction". Many people also wanted them to be high elves instead of ex-blood elves, so there was a heated discussion on that matter, and 1100+ pages of this thread shows kind of proves that.

[Ardenaso]

Quel'thalas was cut off by Plaguelands, an area extremely dangerous at the time and fully under control of the Scourge. Forsaken or Crusaders had very little holdings there at the time and were fighting tooth and nails here. Silithus is largely different case, the whole area was being look over by Cenarion Circle who invited both Horde and the Alliance and surrounding regions were not under control of any hostile force.

Don't forget the timeline too. By the time Arthas got to Quel'thalas, Alliance was already in ruins and elves thought they can endure by themselves. In fact, it was elves who abandoned the Alliance first, since they left it and when plague began to spread, they didn't provide much help either, which ultimately results in humans being not really fond of elves later on. At the time Alliance and Horde get to Silithus, they were both reformed and restored factions.

Also, if elves can so easily forgive trolls hundreds and hundreds of years of slaughtering, why some of them can't forgive humans mistakes of Third War?

I mean not on the Third War but on the 3-4 years after that

[Varodoc]

I never understood the complaint about the lack of "background" for the Void elves, and I never will, because it doesn't make sense.

Magister Umbric and his followers were a small group of scholars exiled into Scourge-infested wilderness. Of course they wouldn't become public knowledge until their involvement with Alleria Windrunner, war hero of the Alliance and Quel'Thalas, who had recently returned to Azeroth bearing the ominous power of the Void.

Writing 101. You don't introduce someone until you have plans for that someone. It would've made no sense to introduce Umbric and co. in a previous expansion if they didn't intend to do something with them immediately after, which they couldn't have done as they were created purposefully to become an allied race (like all the other Legion allied races), and thus they were introduced in Legion.

Likewise, the viewer doesn't need to know everything that happens around a vast world. Umbric and his scholars, as I said, were "nobodies" before they met Alleria and became Ren'dorei, that's why we knew nothing about them. That's not an "asspull", that's just basic worldbuilding 101. You don't tell your viewer EVERYTHING that is happening around the world at every possible moment.

But then again, people on this forum were never good at writing. Thank God they have no say in what Blizzard does.

[Vaedan]

I mean not on the Third War but on the 3-4 years after that

Even in that time, Alliance was dealing with enough problems on their own. Alliance completely lost Lordaeron, which was in hands of either Scourge, Forsaken or Scarlet Crusade. Gilneas was isolated since Second War. Stromgarde become overrun by Syndicate and destabilized. Alterac was run over ogres and Syndicate. Dalaran was in ruins, rebuilding itself while facing attacks from Scourge and the Horde (Forsaken). Kul Tiras was isolated. Dwarves of Aerie Peak and Ironforge faced their own internal problems with Dark Irons or frost trolls. Stormwind was on the opposite part of continent and was dealing with serious internal problems with its corrupted nobles and rising Defias brotherhood. As a faction, Alliance was pretty much destabilized in that period and definitely without resources to reach Quel'thalas and aid them. I also get that some humans were just bitter or straight up hostile towards elves because they left the Alliance first, declined help during Plaguing of Lordaeron (with the exception of small squad of priests present there). In a blood elf PoV, Alliance lost their trust as well, thanks to individuals like Garithos... if you look objectively at that, both elves and the Alliance made their mistakes.

I never understood the complaint about the lack of "background" for the Void elves, and I never will, because it doesn't make sense.

Magister Umbric and his followers were a small group of scholars exiled into Scourge-infested wilderness. Of course they wouldn't become public knowledge until their involvement with Alleria Windrunner, war hero of the Alliance and Quel'Thalas, who had recently returned to Azeroth bearing the ominous power of the Void.

Writing 101. You don't introduce someone until you have plans for that someone. It would've made no sense to introduce Umbric and co. in a previous expansion if they didn't intend to do something with them immediately after, which they couldn't have done as they were created purposefully to become an allied race (like all the other Legion allied races), and thus they were introduced in Legion.

Likewise, the viewer doesn't need to know everything that happens around a vast world. Umbric and his scholars, as I said, were "nobodies" before they met Alleria and became Ren'dorei, that's why we knew nothing about them. That's not an "asspull", that's just basic worldbuilding 101. You don't tell your viewer EVERYTHING that is happening around the world at every possible moment.

But then again, people on this forum were never good at writing. Thank God they have no say in what Blizzard does.

I agree with you on that they don't really need complex background to be implemented. After all, void elves have the same background as blood elves - destruction of Quel'thalas, magical addiction, taking desperate measures to survive and later returning back to grace... that all applies to void elves as well.

What I miss is a better introduction of the race. What we got was not that bad as some say, but I think we definitely deserve more. We witnessed how they come to existence as a group, but after that, we have very little lore regarding what they stand for and what are their ideals, aside from "We were never truly Horde and we are happy to be Alliance again." Right now, void elves lack depth as a race... on the other hand, they are not the only one. Most of the races share this issue, since for few years now, storytelling is being centered on a faction as whole or on stories of certain individuals (like Anduin, Jaina, Khadgar, Sylvanas, Saurfang, etc). Racial focus is a thing of past, which is a shame. Most of the races are currently underdeveloped.

[Varodoc]

I think that's the point. Void elves are a newborn race.

Did the Quel'dorei have depth when they first appeared under Dath'remar Sunstrider?

What happened to the Ren'dorei is literally what happened to the Quel'dorei long ago. Both groups were exiled from their homeland due to the dangerous powers they dabbled in, both were led by a Magister, and both ended up mutating biologically due to said powers. It took 7.000 years for the Quel'dorei to create their own identity, so of course it will take some time for the Ren'dorei to emerge as a fully-fledged race.

Regardless, the Ren'dorei aesthetically and thematically have a very distinct feeling from all the other races in WoW, which is why they are the most special race in WoW. Ominous, ambitious, and above all else, alien. Those are words that perfectly describe the Void elves and make them different from every other race in the game. Just listen to their theme, it's unlike anything else found in WoW:



So even if storywise they are not very unique, aesthetically and thematically they are objectively very unique.

The fact that no one was expecting Void elves a few years ago is proof that they are a genius inclusion. Once again Blizzard defies a fantasy trope, the trope that elves should be worthless, passive fools who are too powerful for their own good.

[Kyriani]

I think the problem some people had with Void Elves was that, Alliance High Elves would have been a more organic choice. Other people took issue with the fact that Void Elves originated from exiled Blood Elves rather than the Alliance allied High Elves already right there ripe for the usage.

To people who wanted High Elves, I'm guessing it felt like Blizzard intentionally pulled as big a "corrupt a wish" as possible. The ones that wanted Alliance High Elves, instead got Blood Elves dyed blue which wasn't what they wanted. While I'm sure aesthetics play a big part in the desire for High Elves, it wasn't the only factor, and just giving Alliance players the model didn't really address the request, especially because the initial Void Elves originated from Blood Elves and not existing Alliance High Elves.

Then there's people who liked the concept of Void Elves (I fall into this category myself) and would have had little issue with them had they originated from the Alliance High Elves that already exist instead of pulling a group of exiled Blood Elves out of thin air just to give them to the Alliance. Blizzard literally gave Blood Elves to the Alliance. And for some players, that was precisely what they did not want. They wanted the High Elves who never left the Alliance, not the ones who did.

Another issue that caused many to refer to Void Elves as an "asspull" was the fact that they had absolutely no groundwork laid for them prior to their intro. They literally don't exist until you unlock them, while High Mountain and Nightborne played a large part in the Legion expansion's events before allied races were ever even mentioned. Even the Lightforged got some screen time and a bit of groundwork laid for them prior to us learning about allied races, albeit they got considerably less than the High Mountain and the Nightborne. Alleria's Argus story arc has nothing to do with the player Void Elves and laid no groundwork for their introduction. Umbric's initial band of elves looked completely different from Alleria. Even their Void Forms differed. They also acquired their powers in an entirely different manner from Alleria.

Origin aside, another issue some people (including me), had with the intro is that it basically boils down to "Some Blood Elves get kicked from the Horde and get zapped by the Void. Now they are Alliance because no one else will take them in". I get that's a very reductive version of the intro, but that just showcases exactly how shallow the intro was.

With that said, a way to fix that shallowness would have been to start fleshing out the Void Elves in BfA. But Void Elves received little to no development at all in BfA. They got a few generic cameos here and there and Umbric himself got some development, but as a people, nada. We see High Elf Wayfarers and Silvermoon Scholars in Telogrus Rift, which implies that's how Void Elves are increasing their numbers, but nothing is ever mentioned in this regard. We learn nothing about what's incentivizing these elves to join the Ren'dorei, nor do we learn anything about how they are acquiring their powers. Void Elves also played no significant role against N'zoth, which was arguably a huge missed opportunity for development.

All other allied races had groundwork laid for them before their addition. Void Elves were pulled out of someone's Void because Blizz devs thought Alleria's cinematic with L'ura was "cool" and the "rule of cool" won out over giving those asking for High Elves what they were asking for.

I believe the addition of the skin tones is an example of Blizzard realizing that Void Elves, while one of the more successful allied races, did not actually fulfill the request for High Elves. And while it's far too late to go back and change things, the new customization options allow players looking for Alliance High Elves to get closer to that. Adding some in-game lore that gives players more insight into the "why" of those Scholars and Wayfarers joining the Ren'dorei, and the "how" of these recruits acquiring their powers, would probably go a long way to making Void Elves feel less like an "asspull" to those that feel that way, and also help those seeking Alliance High Elves to truly embrace Void Elves as that option (or as close to one as they are going to ever get).

[shoc]

I think the problem some people had with Void Elves was that, Alliance High Elves would have been a more organic choice. Other people took issue with the fact that Void Elves originated from exiled Blood Elves rather than the Alliance allied High Elves already right there ripe for the usage.

To people who wanted High Elves, I'm guessing it felt like Blizzard intentionally pulled as big a "corrupt a wish" as possible. The ones that wanted Alliance High Elves, instead got Blood Elves dyed blue which wasn't what they wanted. While I'm sure aesthetics play a big part in the desire for High Elves, it wasn't the only factor, and just giving Alliance players the model didn't really address the request, especially because the initial Void Elves originated from Blood Elves and not existing Alliance High Elves.

Then there's people who liked the concept of Void Elves (I fall into this category myself) and would have had little issue with them had they originated from the Alliance High Elves that already exist instead of pulling a group of exiled Blood Elves out of thin air just to give them to the Alliance. Blizzard literally gave Blood Elves to the Alliance. And for some players, that was precisely what they did not want. They wanted the High Elves who never left the Alliance, not the ones who did.

Another issue that caused many to refer to Void Elves as an "asspull" was the fact that they had absolutely no groundwork laid for them prior to their intro. They literally don't exist until you unlock them, while High Mountain and Nightborne played a large part in the Legion expansion's events before allied races were ever even mentioned. Even the Lightforged got some screen time and a bit of groundwork laid for them prior to us learning about allied races, albeit they got considerably less than the High Mountain and the Nightborne. Alleria's Argus story arc has nothing to do with the player Void Elves and laid no groundwork for their introduction. Umbric's initial band of elves looked completely different from Alleria. Even their Void Forms differed. They also acquired their powers in an entirely different manner from Alleria.

Origin aside, another issue some people (including me), had with the intro is that it basically boils down to "Some Blood Elves get kicked from the Horde and get zapped by the Void. Now they are Alliance because no one else will take them in". I get that's a very reductive version of the intro, but that just showcases exactly how shallow the intro was.

With that said, a way to fix that shallowness would have been to start fleshing out the Void Elves in BfA. But Void Elves received little to no development at all in BfA. They got a few generic cameos here and there and Umbric himself got some development, but as a people, nada. We see High Elf Wayfarers and Silvermoon Scholars in Telogrus Rift, which implies that's how Void Elves are increasing their numbers, but nothing is ever mentioned in this regard. We learn nothing about what's incentivizing these elves to join the Ren'dorei, nor do we learn anything about how they are acquiring their powers. Void Elves also played no significant role against N'zoth, which was arguably a huge missed opportunity for development.

All other allied races had groundwork laid for them before their addition. Void Elves were pulled out of someone's Void because Blizz devs thought Alleria's cinematic with L'ura was "cool" and the "rule of cool" won out over giving those asking for High Elves what they were asking for.

I believe the addition of the skin tones is an example of Blizzard realizing that Void Elves, while one of the more successful allied races, did not actually fulfill the request for High Elves. And while it's far too late to go back and change things, the new customization options allow players looking for Alliance High Elves to get closer to that. Adding some in-game lore that gives players more insight into the "why" of those Scholars and Wayfarers joining the Ren'dorei, and the "how" of these recruits acquiring their powers, would probably go a long way to making Void Elves feel less like an "asspull" to those that feel that way, and also help those seeking Alliance High Elves to truly embrace Void Elves as that option (or as close to one as they are going to ever get).

Could have been something simpler, like the Silver Covenant going to Argus to support Alleria and the Army of the Light, becoming Void Elves after run-ins with the Void on Mac'aree. After all, there was a perfectly good faction of militant High Elves who until MoP had an active role in purging Blood Elves from Dalaran.

[Kyriani]

Could have been something simpler, like the Silver Covenant going to Argus to support Alleria and the Army of the Light, becoming Void Elves after run-ins with the Void on Mac'aree. After all, there was a perfectly good faction of militant High Elves who until MoP had an active role in purging Blood Elves from Dalaran.

Exactly so. The Silver Covenant were on the scene for the Nighthold battle and so they were already in place and ready to become Void Elves had Blizzard actually thought about it for more than a minute instead of "oohing and ahhing" over their "cool" Alleria void form cinematic.

Not only would that have legitimately given players the High Elves that have been allied with the Alliance for years, but it would also have made it easy to explain where more recruits were coming from. Whether it be Silver Covenant members that hadn't gotten transformed initially, or members from abroad, or other Alliance High Elves that weren't part of the Silver Covenant, rather than literally making up some exiled Blood Elves, taking them away from the Horde, and giving them to the Alliance. The story of how the initial batch got transformed would have been different, but ultimately I think it would have been more satisfying.

High Elf-stans would still have grumbled over the aesthetics as they were at launch I'm sure, but with the addition of the new skin tones, and any future options Void Elves get, I'd wager that they'd ultimately be satisfied that they got actual High Elves, even if the racial tag still said Void Elf.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Exactly so. The Silver Covenant were on the scene for the Nighthold battle and so they were already in place and ready to become Void Elves had Blizzard actually thought about it for more than a minute instead of "oohing and ahhing" over their "cool" Alleria void form cinematic.

Not only would that have legitimately given players the High Elves that have been allied with the Alliance for years, but it would also have made it easy to explain where more recruits were coming from. Whether it be Silver Covenant members that hadn't gotten transformed initially, or members from abroad, or other Alliance High Elves that weren't part of the Silver Covenant, rather than literally making up some exiled Blood Elves, taking them away from the Horde, and giving them to the Alliance. The story of how the initial batch got transformed would have been different, but ultimately I think it would have been more satisfying.

High Elf-stans would still have grumbled over the aesthetics as they were at launch I'm sure, but with the addition of the new skin tones, and any future options Void Elves get, I'd wager that they'd ultimately be satisfied that they got actual High Elves, even if the racial tag still said Void Elf.

Basically this, and I think a lot of us have been saying something like it since they were introduced.

At the end of the day, the biggest* issue with Void Elves was not that they used Void, because we saw through Alleria herself how that would go, as it was literally a story of a High Elf -the most iconic one to that- learning to wield it, so yet instead of following that very obvious like for the rest of the Void Elves, they took a group of Blood Elves and turned them, instead of the already alliance High Elves that had already been present since WoW's launch, and more so since WotLK as the SC.

*For some people the issue will always be that High Elves are meant to be "light worshiping", but tbh, that's a lot more sectarian, a group like the SC -the most recurring one- had little meaningful light representation, nothing beyond a trainer -not even in Isle of Thunder were we see several Silver Covenant troops- So while I do get the appeal of light worshiping high elves, if they had gone with the Silver Covenant being being turned into Void Elves it would have been fitting.

A big issue between High Elf fans themselves are what are they supposed to be, for a lot of people it's more about their politics and alliances, for others is the sense they are uncorrupted, and in broad strokes is between those two axis you find people pro or against HE's starting using the Void. Personally, I would have rather see High Elves follow Alleria's path and continue to to focus on their loyalties, while also having them forward by using new sources of power. Rather to have that than stagnation, so pretty much I still hope some High Elves end up canonically joining the Void Elves -and be the source of "new" ones-

[BaumanKing]

Like, look at this trash:

Trash? They look great. I am okay with void elves, but I would take broken draenei over lightforged any day. Lightforged should have been like Wildhammer dwarves, just a customization option and that's it.

[Varodoc]

Yes, they look like trash. Their faces are and have always been expressionless. You can't exactly come up with different variations when all these faces would have spiky, scary, evil-looking teeth due to the race being designed like monsters.

On top of that, I'm pretty sure these mongrels are all bald, so no hair customization either.

Yeah, I think I prefer elves over monsters, sorry. Void elves are very pretty, attractive, and above all else, hot.

Sorry Broken fans, better luck for... huh, I want to say next time, but there probably won't be one.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Trash? They look great. I am okay with void elves, but I would take broken draenei over lightforged any day. Lightforged should have been like Wildhammer dwarves, just a customization option and that's it.

Don't take Varodoc seriously, they hardly have any non-trash opinions themselves. Just ignore and move on.

EDIT: Seriously? A report for calling you out on your BS? That's weak.

[vilememory]

Don't take Varodoc seriously, they hardly have any non-trash opinions themselves. Just ignore and move on.

EDIT: Seriously? A report for calling you out on your BS? That's weak.

This is Vardoc's thread now. We just squat here

[melzas]

The two guys with void elves avatars playing denial game of "void elves aren't an asspull" are hilarious.

You can deny it all you want, the perspective of majority (and the actual truth) won't change because of that. Void elves are a lame excuse of a race that was only added to give alliance "high elves" without copying blood elves outright.

They are popular because they are eye candies, not because average void elf player cares about their garbage story.

[Varodoc]

The two guys with void elves avatars playing denial game of "void elves aren't an asspull" are hilarious.

You can deny it all you want, the perspective of majority (and the actual truth) won't change because of that. Void elves are a lame excuse of a race that was only added to give alliance "high elves" without copying blood elves outright.

They are popular because they are eye candies, not because average void elf player cares about their garbage story.

Aside from the fact that you can't prove it's the perspective of the "majority", since 5 people around here don't make "the majority", it doesn't matter. The masses can think whatever they want, it doesn't make it truth.

Blizzard writes this game, not you nor this mythical "majority" you speak of. Never forget that.

Void elves were added because they are objectively the race with the most potential at a time when the main storyline is turning towards the conflict between Light and Void. It's that simple. Helfers had nothing to do with it. And you don't know why the majority plays them. You don't speak for anyone but yourself. Your conspiracy theories are not evidence. They remain baseless assumptions, nothing more.

"Asspull" is just another buzzword people on this forum heard on the internet (since they never go outside, they couldn't have heard it in the streets). It's no different than "Mary Sue" or "Retcon". Just another buzzword people around here use to make themselves look cool, while not even knowing what it means.

[melzas]

Aside from the fact that you can't prove it's the perspective of the "majority", since 5 people around here don't make "the majority", it doesn't matter. The masses can think whatever they want, it doesn't make it truth.

Blizzard writes this game, not you nor this mythical "majority" you speak of. Never forget that.

Void elves were added because they are objectively the race with the most potential at a time when the main storyline is turning towards the conflict between Light and Void. It's that simple. Helfers had nothing to do with it. And you don't know why the majority plays them. You don't speak for anyone but yourself. Your conspiracy theories are not evidence. They remain baseless assumptions, nothing more.

"Asspull" is just another buzzword people on this forum heard on the internet (since they never go outside, they couldn't have heard it in the streets). It's no different than "Mary Sue" or "Retcon". Just another buzzword people around here use to make themselves look cool, while not even knowing what it means.

Denial continues. Point proven.

[Varodoc]

Denial continues. Point proven.

Yeah, you definitely remind me of the masked crying wojak meme.

[melzas]

Yeah, you definitely remind me of the masked crying wojak meme.

And you remind me of flat earthers. Same mentality.

[Varodoc]

And you remind me of flat earthers. Same mentality.

You're the one with conspiracy theories so if anything it's the opposite.

Don't worry, you'll find many who think like you in this forum. A lot of people here are utterly out of touch with reality.

[melzas]

You're the one with conspiracy theories so if anything it's the opposite.

Don't worry, you'll find many who think like you in this forum. A lot of people here are utterly out of touch with reality.

And you are the one who can't accept the truth just like the flat earthers and is oblivious to the facts, again, just like the flat earthers.

I get it, you are on a campaign to change people's opinion on your favourite race, but you are making pretty horrible job. You can deny that void elves are asspull race all you want, but that's the truth and you can't change it with being obnoxious and cringy.