Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Kyriani]

That's an amazing idea! I love it! I was also suggesting in some of my previous posts that Telogrus is transformed into a fully functioning city, with dark blue, gold, and purple decor, several towers spiraling upwards, giving it an almost or even actual feel of floating. The Alliance and Horde receiving their own floating fortress for the next expansion would also be amazing.

What is your take on Void Elf hairstyles and colours? For hairstyles I was suggesting a long straight for males and females with a side braid running along the back, and a loose braid resting on the back as well for females. For hair colours we were thinking white, an ash blonde or a voidy blonde (with two dark blue shiny highlights on it resembling the wings of the Starcursed Voidseeker), black, and maybe a cute pastel pink with pink tentacles toggle on/off? The white and blonde, black etc will be to give us High elf fans the high elven look we were hoping for.

As far as hair colors go, I'd like to see Void Elves get options along these lines:



As far as hairstyles go, I'd be happy to see hairstyles from other Alliance races shared with Void Elves such as these:



I'm glad you like my idea on the floating fortresses for each faction though! As a fan of Dalaran as a primary hub, the idea of Alliance and Horde each getting their own faction specific floating magical fortress is very appealing to me and offers a break from the usual Human/Orc buildings we typically get (i.e. WoD Garrisons).

[Eleann]

I love the White and the Black! The Brown is nice and earthly as well. We already have x3 blues so the blue one does not amaze me that much. And I would rather get a light ash blonde with dark blue highlights to create that void theme uniqueness, rather than such a dark blonde. I really like the light kul tiran blonde as it's really nice and natural and differs from the Belf blonde.

BTW Where did you find those photos? I wonder if there're more where those come from!

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Apologies to Eleann.
I'm just frustrated that people are offering good ideas but they just get shouted down with "my ideas are the only ones that work."

Why can't Night Elves and Void Elves develop Darkshore and Terrokkar Forest for example?
I don't mind the Horde losing a presence in the latter zone, because it can work and works well for the development of High Elves and Void Elves.

And that's the sort of fun discussions we have here, the explorations of where each race could go and whatnot. But when the discussion is built over Ravenmoon's insane moon logic, it sours the whole thing because then we are not just talking about possibilities, but responding to the nonsense premise that "elves are alliance coded" as if it was a valid thing.

[Ardenaso]

why wasn't Vereesa held accountable for attempting to murder Rommath, a high ranking Horde official?

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

why wasn't Vereesa held accountable for attempting to murder Rommath, a high ranking Horde official?

When did that even happen?

[Shadowtwili]

Probably the Purge of Dalaran?

But as far as I know, that was Rommath going into a area that he knew was hostile to him and his people.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Probably the Purge of Dalaran?

But as far as I know, that was Rommath going into a area that he knew was hostile to him and his people.

I mean Vereesa DOES give us a hit list -girlboss- but she isn't even aware Rommath is pulling off a rescue mission.

It's just so weird people making up stuff when Vereesa has actually done war crimes; but since everyone has at some point I guess that's why people pull the "well she tried to kill someone IMPORTANT" lol

[Ardenaso]

When did that even happen?

just before the liberation of Suramar when the Alliance and Horde weren't at war

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

just before the liberation of Suramar when the Alliance and Horde weren't at war

JFC are you talking their spat outsides the gates of Suramar? Are you serious?

[Tanaria]

Next to Hyjal and Darkshore settlements for Night elves, I never seen this suggestion. I have to admit, that could totally work. Thinking of granting access, how is your view if any one these void/high elves question the sunwell or that whole area?

Depends on what they question.

Void Elves are too dangerous to be near the Sunwell. They affect the fount of power and not in a good way.
The High Elves might be granted permission, but it would likely be a case by case basis. Somebody like Vereesa Windrunner, likely wouldn't be granted permission to see the Sunwell.

[elbleuet]

why wasn't Vereesa held accountable for attempting to murder Rommath, a high ranking Horde official?

Because no one in the Horde even care about him ?

He's a high ranking blood elf leader. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Ardenaso]

JFC are you talking their spat outsides the gates of Suramar? Are you serious?

correct me if I'm wrong here but her attempt to shoot at him looked like a gesture of hostility with intent to kill, almost like when Genn did the Stormheim

[ravenmoon]

And that's the sort of fun discussions we have here, the explorations of where each race could go and whatnot. But when the discussion is built over Ravenmoon's insane moon logic, it sours the whole thing because then we are not just talking about possibilities, but responding to the nonsense premise that "elves are alliance coded" as if it was a valid thing.

I make lots of fun suggestions, you're just biased against me.

When I make suggestions, you and your ilk, immediately jump to criticism and disdain, because you get upset or you don't like. Then I respond to you, cos I'm not just gonna sit down and get trashed by guys for no real reason other than they don't like my suggestions, which (in topics like this) favour the alliance elves and restoring elfdom on the alliance.

You don't consider it fairly or reasonable. Which would be a lot more fun. You have to get rude, and personal or abusive

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I make lots of fun suggestions, you're just biased against me.

When I make suggestions, you and your ilk, immediately jump to criticism and disdain, because you get upset or you don't like. Then I respond to you, cos I'm not just gonna sit down and get trashed by guys for no real reason other than they don't like my suggestions, which favour the alliance elves and restoring elfdom on the alliance.

You don't consider it fairly or reasonable. Which would be a lot more fun. You have to get rude, and personal or abusive

When you play victim as much as you do, you kind of bring it upon yourself. If you're definition of "fun suggestions" is your incessant need to force your headcanon into every thread you pop up in, why don't you expect to be criticized?

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

correct me if I'm wrong here but her attempt to shoot at him looked like a gesture of hostility with intent to kill, almost like when Genn did the Stormheim

It's literally treated as a joke in game my dude, it's literally NPC flavor text. If no one in universe even brings it up as an issue, like let's say Rommath himself, he never felt in actual danger enough to care. JFC

- - - Updated - - -

I make lots of fun suggestions, you're just biased against me.

When I make suggestions, you and your ilk, immediately jump to criticism and disdain, because you get upset or you don't like. Then I respond to you, cos I'm not just gonna sit down and get trashed by guys for no real reason other than they don't like my suggestions, which favour the alliance elves and restoring elfdom on the alliance.

You don't consider it fairly or reasonable. Which would be a lot more fun. You have to get rude, and personal or abusive

I have been pretty clear that I find you argument about "elves belonging to the alliance" to be utter nonsense. In all the discussion you have failed to address the backlash towards your premise, as if it were self evident and intrinsic.

You are not even making an argument, you are just basing your whole reasoning on a downright asinine premise; that's not a personal attack even if you would consider it so. Again, I think your whole "elves are alliance coded" premise is just bad, and you have done nothing to strengthen it as an argument.

And as such, any argumentation that you make over that contested premise is just going to be flawed.

And I am self aware enough to realize I am heavily alliance biased, yet I can see how preposterous against the Horde your suggestions are. You claim I am biased against you, don't you realize how ridiculously biased against the Horde your suggestions are? There's nothing fair or reasonable about your proposals about removing elven identity from BE and NB, because you believe that elven identity is intrinsically alliance.

[ravenmoon]

And I am self aware enough to realize I am heavily alliance biased, yet I can see how preposterous against the Horde your suggestions are. You claim I am biased against you, don't you realize how ridiculously biased against the Horde your suggestions are? There's nothing fair or reasonable about your proposals about removing elven identity from BE and NB, because you believe that elven identity is intrinsically alliance.

You only think that because you don't like the suggestions, but I am not heavily biased against the horde at all. I'm not even biased against the horde elf section.

But you are so convinced you understand what I am, you haven't even considered it properly.

That elven identity in the blood elves and Nightborne is alliance. It's too alliance, it it is left on the horde, you have the horde remaining with alliance on it (is that really the best thing for Warcraft? Alliance on the horde too?). Technically speaking in the narrative sense, taking those Blood elves back to the alliance as High elves and those Nightborne to the alliance by turning them into night elves is not removing their elven identity at all but placing it on the faction that represents such things.

The remnant/few remaining blood elves and Nightborne, do not have to be elven in that high elf sense or night elf sense to be considered blood elves or Nightborne. It is an assumption of yours that in order to be elven, they must continue in the way they are right now. The way they are right now is too alliance based, so they simply need to change that to make the factions more distinct again. AS for losing Suramar and Quel'thalas and the culture stuff, it removes or at least significantly reduces the alliance lure that they have been so far. High elves fully being available on the alliance in all their glory at the same time as horde blood elves losing the high elven assets and behaviour will squarely put that version of elvenness on the alliance only. So players who like that and want that - that is alliance for you, they go there.

This is what you want in this game, and what it needs, the alliance is about all the things the high elf kingdom and the night elven civilization represent, the humans and dwarves too - that type of civilization, type of ideals, nobility, arcane magic, way of thinking etc, these are the hallmarks of what the alliance is built upon. it is the faction that represents the ancient cultures of humans, elves and dwarves on the Eastern kingdom that vein( derived originally from the kaldorei - the first of that type of living).

To have that on the horde, and keep it on the horde greatly affects the alliance and dilutes the horde. you may not like this conclusion and my insult me all you want. But as long as blood elves are parading as high elves, and Nightborne living high as kaldorei civilization elves, while their alliance counterparts are crappy remnants, and the alliance races clearly second best in all those things the alliance is known for, you would always have a net flow to the horde, because the horde will continually lure alliance minded types because of blood elves being this way and Nightborne in addition to those drawn to the horde faction for the original horde races they are.

If you want to repopulate the alliance, elves have to be more attractive on it, more visible. Do this well and the alliance will be an exciting place for those type of players and will attract enough of its crowd back. And since blood elves and Nightborne won't be losing their models, the horde will not fall apart either, their elves can afford to suffer a little (I'm not saying this cos I hate the horde) and can afford to be redrawn into something else - because they are on the horde faction, and being something different from high elf and Night elf is better suited for the horde because those races aren't horde based.

It's not the only way, it has never been, but it is going to be the most effective way and the fastest, and can be the greatest way if done properly. There is a reason I suggested this is done by the horde elven npc populations turning back to the alliance instead of being destroyed. there is a reason I suggested that Silvermoon/Quel'thalas and Suramar all go to the alliance. There is a reason I suggested that more troll, orc, tauren, goblin assets and cities come into replace the elven stuff lost - in a visible way because it promotes the horde core fantasy . There is a reason i also suggested that a little later, the blood elves and Nightborne build up again, but this time not as high elves or kaldorei types, but something more unique - this isn't hard to imagine, I gave examples of the naga, the Pandaren, the San'layn, the Venthyr as examples of what unique can be, and I gave examples of Kael'thas' TBC Sunsworn and Elisande's loyalists as examples of how these elves were actually shaping out to look quite different from the high elf/night elf model they were instead given - as an example of how it could go, not insisting his is how they should go.

If you want your white shining knight, really, the alliance is where you should be, not vicariously living alliance dreams on the horde through noble Nightborne and white knight blood elves - that's an alliance fantasy. if you take that fantasy to the horde too, and make it even more attractive like they did, you make the horde more attractive over the alliance to alliance type players, and you diminish or pollute the vein of the horde.


I'm not being angry or vindictive or horde hating at all by using this language, a person that wants to restore the core and distinct fantasies of both factions doesn't hate them. If you perceive the loss of high elven and night elven facets to the horde elves as horde hating, then you have an elf and alliance centric view on the horde. This is problematic. You think a person that wants to remove the alliance fantasy themes and elements on the horde is spouting horde hate when the only ones negatively affected are the two most alliance horde races who in his proposal actually, eventually make new gains that could even equal or exceed their previous state - that is not horde hate. But you probably never read that far, you read a few lines, jumped to conclusions, and tried to sound intelligent about such an unwise act - feeling that would be enough... Well, it isn't, all anyone has to do is simply read what has been said through and it is quite easy to see.

[Tanaria]

SNIP

All your agenda is, is "I'm still salty after 3 years of Horde getting Nightborne. Waaaaaah Waaaaaah Waaaaaah!"

Get over it and move on.

[Eleann]

But as long as blood elves are parading as high elves, and Nightborne living high as kaldorei civilization elves, while their alliance counterparts are crappy remnants, and the alliance races clearly second best in all those things the alliance is known for, you would always have a net flow to the horde, because the horde will continually lure alliance minded types because of blood elves being this way and Nightborne in addition to those drawn to the horde faction for the original horde races they are.

If you want to repopulate the alliance, elves have to be more attractive on it, more visible. Do this well and the alliance will be an exciting place for those type of players and will attract enough of its crowd back. And since blood elves and Nightborne won't be losing their models, the horde will not fall apart either, their elves can aford to suffer a little (i'm not saying this cos I hate the horde) and can afford to be redrawn into something else - because they are on the horde faction, and being something different from high elf and Night elf is better suited for the horde because those raecs aren't horde based.

So much this. I am not agreeing that Blood elves and Nightborne should lose their identity, but people are so hyped about these races that they shamelessly defend them and insult the Alliance over them because they feel like master races. I can confirm I have been the receiver of repeated RP attacks by Nightborne players in my threads in the forums, calling me ''lowborn scum, you do not deserve anything, be grateful for what you got, you are the lesser race, etc''. These remarks have made me feel horrible for choosing to play a Void elf. I feel insulted as a player because automatically this renders me a second class player of WoW because of the race I play. They just call themselves Highborn and RP in the forums. It's ridiculous and disgusting tbh.

On the other side a few posters are just saying we are Void elves, not Blood elves, and thus deserve only Voidy customization. Not only did we not get High elves but the Void elves we never asked for, now we have to deal with that as well. Despite the fact that they know Void elves come from Blood elves who come from High elves, and that the Alliance has been requesting High elves for so many years.

So what was achieved in the end? Nightborne players RP'ing in forums calling themselves Highborn and feeling entitled to bully all posters with Void elf avatars and calling them lesser races, and hordies thinking it's reasonable to limit Void elves to voidy customization, despite us having more than enough of that already, and again knowing very well that we asked for High elves, not Void elves, and more voidy stuff will just make things 10 times worse because of that. All Blizzard managed to do, was create more hate between the factions' players, and boost the Horde even more than the Alliance once again.

Again, I do not desire for Nightborne and Blood elves to lose their identities. But for crying out loud Blizzard stop giving us LESSER stuff all the fuckin time!! You burnt Shaladrassil and made Night elves homeless!! You gave us Void elves instead of High elves so everyone could just talk about how fugly our tentacles were all the darn time, and an assy lore for the Void elves to pair it up with. Things are still looking very bleak for the Alliance.

[Traveler Voltin]

i am perfectly fine with Void elves getting natural hair color if blood elves get tattoos.
night elves always being bullied sucks and its annoying.

[ravenmoon]

@ravenmoon You are right in many aspects. They would not like to admit it but your words ring true for much of the Horde population who actually cares about aesthetics and lore. But the point is not to keep fighting them. In fact, I really think we need the support of the Horde in achieving what we want. Because the Horde has a lot more active population than the Alliance, and because some of our fellow allies simply do not care enough to fight for this. Do you think there are many girls left in the Alliance who really care about aesthetics? Most of them have just switched to Horde because they do not care about allegiance, but looks, and the Horde had them much, much better for 14 years because of Blood elves. I keep trying and trying, I have posted on the EU forums, on Twitter, on here, I even tried to get in touch with Ion. But I do not seem to have much influence. Because, I will repeat, most of the darn active playerbase is actually Horde asking for Nightborne. Streamers, artists, the devs themselves are all just playing Horde and just care for the Horde.

You're right, the point is not to fight them, I'm not even trying to or want to. But they do keep coming at me. Look at the responses, most of the times I'm cordially responding, going to great lengths to explain what I'm trying to communicate - but it is often quite clear what heart they come with and from their responses it's clear to me they haven't read what I've said. I may not be the best at communicating, but it is clear English (my native tongue).

it's not always like that, sometimes they do make points worthy of a response, but you've heard the language and the arguments, it becomes clear that it doesn't matter how reasonable you are, or what you propose, , they'd say anything, come up with anything, twist everything to somehow invalidate what you've said in support of playable high elves or night elves getting more of their high elf and kaldorei civilization aspects of their race on their faction - presumably because they feel that this part of high elves and night elves belongs to the horde because blood elves and Nightborne were placed their having all the assets of the high elves and the night elves. And can't seem to understand what the problem is with this for the game, for the factions, for faction identity, and how it is affecting player choices and faction selecting, not to mention themes.

Point this out and suggest change that removes this - and you're a horde hater heavily biased against the horde? Never mind that every loss you've proposed has been doubly compensated, in fact if you were truly impartial you would see it was a restructuring, re-aligning, not a faction nerf. horde loses high elf and night elf empire stuff, because that's alliance based, and gain orc/troll/tauren/goblin etc things and a new direction for remaining blood elves/Nightborne - what this achieves? An attractive and exciting alliance to draw more players back, a more balanced and thematically distinct and whole Alliance and horde, in the vein of Warcraft's core.

It's not the only way to be, but it's a good way to be, how is this anti-horde.

But it seems that way on here, because as you say spot on, the horde has a lot more active players, and vocal ones. Most of the alliance players don't post on lore issues or theme issues, also many have gone to the horde because that's where they get guilds and groups. So their dominance is far more present. The horde is the exciting faction, so guess what, it is its fans that are going to be more vocal on the boards, because they have a lot more going for them, and are happier (despite their displeasure at recent plot twists), but they dwarf the active alliance fans.

But these guys never wonder why, they're just enjoying ganging up on the few alliance players still active because it is easy and fun and they can pat themselves on the back and go well done, while ignoring what's actually going on, because their yes man who would echo their bias are all around them and they've screamed out counter voice, on listening to them or considering what they say, but dismissed them because they don't like what they say and don't want them to to get better. Why? Because they view them as their enemies, they're the other faction, the one they must always be superior too, the in game construct has totally encompassed their view and stance. Therefore a player like me who plays both factions equally, is viewed as alliance fanatic and hating just because i firmly believe that it is better for the game and factions that the high elven and night elven stuff - all their lore aspects should be home on the alliance.

So just the elven races, one of many, and that makes me horde hating. Now who has the bias?