Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Tanaria]

Hey guys...don't worry, Silvermoon still had all Horde NPCs with Horde leaders in it yesterday and it's still here today.

Considering MMO champion makes up 0.1% of the actual playerbase, I'd say that these ridiculous demands are not likely to even reach the ears of the main reception staff at blizzard HQ, let alone the story team.

EDIT:
Oh and as an FYI - Kael'Thas Sunstrider's forces were named the "Sunfury" and they returned to Quel'Thalas after he betrayed the Blood Elves. He had no army called the "Sunsworn"...that was a group of Blood Knights, Magi and Rangers under Liadrin on AU Draenor.

[Beloren]

I think the void elves should get an amazing capital, but it needs to have a use.

[Tanaria]

I think the void elves should get an amazing capital, but it needs to have a use.

They should, but it depends on what Blizzard wants to do and how they want to treat it.

I'd say that expanding Allerian Stronghold on Outland, which unites High Elves and Void Elves, might be a good idea.
They could take the Firewing Point area and re-do that whole area into a void-section, which still has the Thalassian Architecture, but rather than it being the red and gold of Horde Silvermoon, it's void, blue and gold - symbolic of the Ren'dorei leadership, but also their union with the High Elves.

This could also allow Night Elves and Humans and visit as they are also on decent terms with these Thalassian Elves. Night Elves' relations with the Alliance Thalassian Elves has been developing and now they seem to be on decent terms. Night Elves were located inside the Allerian Stronghold, so as guests and visitors, the site works well as an Alliance City and a Void Elf City.

Or they could go with Telogrus Rift, if they wanted to expand that.

Or, the more controversial option might be something like the Zin-Azshari Ruins, which are developed into a Thalassian/Highborne City, where Void and Arcane knowledge is stored and documented. Plus, the city being reclaimed by the Zin-Azshari descendants could be quite poetic. This might work if they want all races to be have holdings, bases and cities on Azeroth.

I must say, I do prefer Allerian Stronghold. I'd see nothing bad about removing the Horde presence from the forest, but perhaps this means the Alliance is pushed out of Hellfire Peninsula, so the Alliance get a forest zone and Horde get a barren zone.

[Eleann]

They should, but it depends on what Blizzard wants to do and how they want to treat it.

Everyone, I am deeply moved by your support. The community in this site seems so much better than all the randoms commenting and attacking in the forums. It is really appreciated. I understand that ofcourse there are disagreements between some but that is something natural. And while we may not agree with all the things @ravenmoon says, I appreciate that he tries to fight for the Alliance cause, and among his replies there are truths that need to be addressed. We should all unite and work together for a better WoW that is not riddled with so much hate between the two factions' playerbase. If the economy does not crash the company before we get to see any of the things we dream of happening

[FossilFree]

I think Blood Elves would have been cooler with a savage or even tribal spin on elves that really fits the Horde (Blood Elf shaman please). This is why I like the original fel elf theme so much, before the Sunwell raid watered it down and holy eyes later came out. It just seemed really Horde-y, almost the same story as the orcs with their fall from grace and subsequent anti-hero redemption direction. Blizzard should have doubled and tripled down on that fel theme, with glowing fel fire eyes, horns, and maybe even wings years before Demon Hunters were even being considered for a class.

Now we have Lightforged Blood Elves, and it honestly feels thematically wrong based on how they were originally introduced. I really wish they would just pick one and go for it 100% though. If lightforged is the new direction, then Blood Elves should be getting glowing tips on their hair, skin tones that appear to shimmer with light (kind of like the Sundancer rare in Bastion), and tattoos with arcane shapes that glow gold (divine magic, which is arcane + holy).

[Traveler Voltin]

blood elves are not lightforged.

[FossilFree]

blood elves are not lightforged.

Sorry, I meant "lightforged."

Just a handy term, not literally lightforged like draenei.

[Traveler Voltin]

Sorry, I meant "lightforged."

Just a handy term, not literally lightforged like draenei.

the sunwell is half light and half arcane. it also affects all high elves and blood elves.

[FossilFree]

the sunwell is half light and half arcane. it also affects all high elves and blood elves.

I guess you could call it "divineforged" or something then, since that is divine magic.

That brings up an interesting loophole though, if all High Elves are affected, wouldn't that mean Void Elves are too? "Divineforged" Void Elves sounds pretty hilarious actually. I guess it could be a lore argument for Void Elf paladins though?

[Eleann]

I guess you could call it "divineforged" or something then, since that is divine magic.
That brings up an interesting loophole though, if all High Elves are affected, wouldn't that mean Void Elves are too? "Divineforged" Void Elves sounds pretty hilarious actually. I guess it could be a lore argument for Void Elf paladins though?

It could be an argument to introduce a Spellreaker class that combines light and void attacks, that would be real cool since ppl really love paladins and it could be made available to Void elves. Or a Cleric. Or a bard?? x

[FossilFree]

It could be an argument to introduce a Spellreaker class that combines light and void attacks, that would be real cool since ppl really love paladins and it could be made available to Void elves. Or a Cleric. Or a bard?? x

You could conceptualize a Void Elf paladin as a discipline priest in plate, which would be fun to play. Spellbreakers themselves have a bit of a discipline priest thing going on too, especially older disc design with mana burn, plus all the dispels and stuff that seems really in line with spellbreakers. Bards would be amazing as always, and I would love that for Void Elves.

What is your idea of a cleric class though?

[ravenmoon]

Hey guys...don't worry, Silvermoon still had all Horde NPCs with Horde leaders in it yesterday and it's still here today.

Considering MMO champion makes up 0.1% of the actual playerbase, I'd say that these ridiculous demands are not likely to even reach the ears of the main reception staff at blizzard HQ, let alone the story team.

You are only just realising this now? I have told you several times, they don't read this stuff, and my motive for posting is not to try and persuade blizzard - I'm not running campaigns for high elves or any other thing, I'm merely sharing my thoughts. The difference between you and I is that you seem to feel compelled to challenge everything I say because you are trying to persuade phantom devs, not realising they don't listen or come here, and this is not why i do this.

You and your detractors are the reason i post so much and have to constantly repeat myself, because you keep arguing against my opinion or desire, and at some point I realised you were waging some sort of media/info campaign - who else would dare to try and control how someone else thought or what they desired.

You should NEVER have taken what i said so seriously , even if I was spot on 100% correct. But for you , it seems you were fighting for the very survival or right ot exist of the blood elves against evil Ravenmoon completely missing the point of all of this.

This is probably why you got upset, and offended, and were very aggressive. I'm probably much older than you at wow posting, I've been here form 2005, I stopped posting for devs nearly a decade ago. I do this to share my thoughts.

you're not to take them as some sort of actual threat. I'm a dude that feels elf kind should be with it's own kind, night elves should have night elven sub race with them and their history with them - that's it. Alliance has high elves, they should have that culture, and horde should have different ones.

it really is simple and it's not a big deal. My way is the original way, but it isn't the only way, and certainly isn't the the only way that has a right to exist, it's just hte way that keeps the original heart of Warcraft, that's it - and this argument was made to restore and preserve that, as well as the surest way to repopulate the alliance.

It's an opinion and point, for a person who doesn't play anymore and wouldn't care if it was implemented or not. You think I am super high elf biased, yet I have loadsa blood elves, won't change them to void elves, though i have void elves and i don't change them to high elf skin tones - doesn't mean I hate blood elves and are biased for high elves nor does it mean i don't think high elves should be playable.

I do, even though I would likely not play them. If the blood elves lost their high elven kingdom and characteristics, I wouldn't stop playing them, at most it would do is draw me back to level some toons as high elves now, and I'd be more eager than ever for my blood elves to have something new.

My desires were and are exactly that. They are the things I'd like to see happen that I'd enjoy, but my motivation and reasoning were not desire driven. The reason for taking this approach is not because i want to play high elves, but because the alliance and the game would seriously benefit from such a move, and so would the horde, especially if they got all the improvements I was suggesting.

if you noticed my long proposals, they included improvements for both factions, everyone improved. You should never have felt threatened by them, NEVER, you were never in danger of blizzard listening, and even if they reached exactly the same conclusions and implemented something very similar to what i said, or indeed listened to me, the blood elves in the end would actually be in a better position with that direction than they are now. And all it would have cost was end game status of alliance being in Silvermoon (horde would have had access anyway via Chromie,

Nothing happens, you win, something happens - we both win. Even if you didn't like it, you should never have gotten so triggered by it.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

You only think that because you don't like the suggestions, but I am not heavily biased against the horde at all. I'm not even biased against the horde elf section.

But you are so convinced you understand what I am, you haven't even considered it properly.

You literally want to remove one aspect of the Horde that has been a part of them since 2006 -tho the point the horde has existed for longer with BE on it rather than not- and you claim your premise isn't based at all?

That elven identity in the blood elves and Nightborne is alliance. It's too alliance, it it is left on the horde, you have the horde remaining with alliance on it (is that really the best thing for Warcraft? Alliance on the horde too?).

Again, How does that even make sense? I have asked you to make an argument about it, yet you continue to present it as an intrinsic fact.

This is what you want in this game, and what it needs, the alliance is about all the things the high elf kingdom and the night elven civilization represent, the humans and dwarves too - that type of civilization, type of ideals, nobility, arcane magic, way of thinking etc, these are the hallmarks of what the alliance is built upon.

And just no; to try to enforce a dichotomy based on you own subjective opinion of what alliance themes and ideals are is both absurd and pointless, and would only serve to dumb down the setting by removing any ideological agency within the universe.

It's not the only way, it has never been, but it is going to be the most effective way and the fastest, and can be the greatest way if done properly.

For sure the fastest, but also the dumbest, and it compeltely alienate BE players that for your own comfort.

And again, stop repeating your whole diatribe, you are not making your point any clearer, just repeating the same thing over and over again without even addressing the obvious issues your proposal entails.


- - - Updated - - -

So much this. I am not agreeing that Blood elves and Nightborne should lose their identity, but people are so hyped about these races that they shamelessly defend them and insult the Alliance over them because they feel like master races. I can confirm I have been the receiver of repeated RP attacks by Nightborne players in my threads in the forums, calling me ''lowborn scum, you do not deserve anything, be grateful for what you got, you are the lesser race, etc''. These remarks have made me feel horrible for choosing to play a Void elf. I feel insulted as a player because automatically this renders me a second class player of WoW because of the race I play. They just call themselves Highborn and RP in the forums. It's ridiculous and disgusting tbh.

Again, I do not desire for Nightborne and Blood elves to lose their identities. But for crying out loud Blizzard stop giving us LESSER stuff all the fuckin time!! You burnt Shaladrassil and made Night elves homeless!! You gave us Void elves instead of High elves so everyone could just talk about how fugly our tentacles were all the darn time, and an assy lore for the Void elves to pair it up with. Things are still looking very bleak for the Alliance.

But that's the issue, I think we can all agree that there are valid reasons for elves on the alliance to get more of a spotlight and live to their potential; but to use that as as a excuse to ask for blood elves and nightborne to loose what Ravenmoon declares "alliance themes" is completely objectionable.

Because that's what Ravenmoon wants. Sure there's an issue about elves on the alliance feeling like lesser versions than the Horde counbterparts, but again, and I can't stress enough, and can't believe I have to, to continually push the idea that BE and NE should loose their elven identity is just a horrible solution.

[ravenmoon]

Look @MyWholeLifeIsThuner, my vision for wow, isn't really mine, it's just the original - which I now happen to find more rare and unique today, than the trends of the day.

nothing wrong with the blood elves, being very human like, which is very alliance like and being on the horde, afterall, the federation and Klingons were allies in TNG - everyone however is doing it, and when you do it in wow, it really becomes a story of just humans and friends.. on the horde it's point eared humans and friends, and on the alliance also humans and friends - whiles this is acceptable, I think Warcraft has more to offer when the horde was more original , and didn't have the alliance in it through the blood elves.

But ofc this isn't the only motivation, the alliance will be very excited if the whole high elf fantasy returns to it, and the night elf fantasy, it's fully scope is fully realised on it - again as it is right now, players can experience the breadth of the night elven race - you get the long vigil via the alliance and the kaldorei empire/civilization by the horde, there isn't anything wrong with this - just know that like this it is what it is, it's more alliance stuff on the horde and it's fusing them.. it might be okay, but it's less interesting, feels less distinguished and more samey, there is also the added crippling effect of the alliance looking worse for the things that it's about, because the blood elves and Nightborne have the civilization while the high elves and night elves are refugees.

You could counter that the fix for that is simply give the night elves and high elves decent stuff too, even better than the blood elves/Nightborne currently have - with no need to take away from the blood elves and Nightborne.

You'd be correct again, however, whiles that would lessen the lure to the horde (so to speak) that the current BElves/NBorne are to alliance layers, it still still doesn't solve homogeny and a host of those issues, which yes you can live with, but then you must ask yourself the question is holding on to high elvenness so important for the horde? That we must give up the faction distinctiveness, move close to homogeny and lose the heart ...all to keep Silvermoon with the blood elves and prevent the high elves and the kaldorei from getting their civilizations on the alliance?

once you realise that the horde keeping Silvermoon/Quel'thalas and Suramar and the blood elves behaving like high elves and Nightborne like kaldorei Highborne/civilization types is actually not that important for the horde and rather detrimental to the faction theme, you will unanimously reach the conclusion I have.. ditch it It's not important, the blood elves were given to the horde when less was at stake than now is, the difference is back then, the devs were far more paranoid about the effect it would have and if the high elves could go tot eh horde, they can return to the alliance

[Razion]

You could conceptualize a Void Elf paladin as a discipline priest in plate, which would be fun to play. Spellbreakers themselves have a bit of a discipline priest thing going on too, especially older disc design with mana burn, plus all the dispels and stuff that seems really in line with spellbreakers. Bards would be amazing as always, and I would love that for Void Elves.

What is your idea of a cleric class though?

What the shit that's genius. Spellbreakers leaning on the Disc angle, that's rad.

[ravenmoon]

So much this. I am not agreeing that Blood elves and Nightborne should lose their identity, but people are so hyped about these races that they shamelessly defend them and insult the Alliance over them because they feel like master races. I can confirm I have been the receiver of repeated RP attacks by Nightborne players in my threads in the forums, calling me ''lowborn scum, you do not deserve anything, be grateful for what you got, you are the lesser race, etc''. These remarks have made me feel horrible for choosing to play a Void elf. I feel insulted as a player because automatically this renders me a second class player of WoW because of the race I play. They just call themselves Highborn and RP in the forums. It's ridiculous and disgusting tbh.

On the other side a few posters are just saying we are Void elves, not Blood elves, and thus deserve only Voidy customization. Not only did we not get High elves but the Void elves we never asked for, now we have to deal with that as well. Despite the fact that they know Void elves come from Blood elves who come from High elves, and that the Alliance has been requesting High elves for so many years.

So what was achieved in the end? Nightborne players RP'ing in forums calling themselves Highborn and feeling entitled to bully all posters with Void elf avatars and calling them lesser races, and hordies thinking it's reasonable to limit Void elves to voidy customization, despite us having more than enough of that already, and again knowing very well that we asked for High elves, not Void elves, and more voidy stuff will just make things 10 times worse because of that. All Blizzard managed to do, was create more hate between the factions' players, and boost the Horde even more than the Alliance once again.

Again, I do not desire for Nightborne and Blood elves to lose their identities. But for crying out loud Blizzard stop giving us LESSER stuff all the fuckin time!! You burnt Shaladrassil and made Night elves homeless!! You gave us Void elves instead of High elves so everyone could just talk about how fugly our tentacles were all the darn time, and an assy lore for the Void elves to pair it up with. Things are still looking very bleak for the Alliance.

Not only that, every time I or someone posts about night elves getting things to support their Highborne and arcane wielding section of night elves - which is a major part of night elf lore (considering all things pre-sundering for night elves were heavily arcane influenced, the race's creation, it's purple skin and eye colour, the Well of eternity, all those arcane star and moon spells that even the priest and druids of the long vigil use despite their arcane abstinence during that era) the utter failure to recognise this is part of the night elf fantasy - something I didn't design, but the lore did - just because the night elf sub-race 9i.e. the Nightborne) were placed on the horde - the amount of attacks I get just of r suggesting night elves should have visible things in game to reflect that - the horde fans seem to think the horde is fully entitled to that.. it is a bit disgusting.

they make an assumption that i am some alliance zealot because I advocate for Highborne stuff on the night elves - but I'm not, it's part of the night elf fantasy I have liked, that's my main motivation, and it's just weird that it should be all funnelled to the horde that is a faction which is not based on such things, but if you like the night elves you can't experience that on the playable night elves?

I don't hate the Nightborne (quite the opposite), I don't hate the blood elves and I certainly don't hate the horde, requesting alliance representation and that night elven lore stuff should be dominant on the alliance because that race is based there and high elf stuff too by the same logic is done because that sort of thing is alliance centric - is the logic behind my reasoning and suggestions, and is not because i hate the horde or hate Nightborne and blood elves.

I have no power to make this be, I'm not fighting a media campaign to attract the devs to see this and make those changes, I'm merely discussing my observations and desires and trying to explain why they appeal to me, and why they make sense in the environment and faction setting.

some suggested that it's high elves and night elves that should change, while blood elves and Nightborne remain the same, I got tired of pointing out that it's the horde elves that are alliance centric in alliance elven based identities on a faction that is supposed to be different, it's they that should change. Also pointing out that the void elves were one such change, but just because they doesn't mean the alliance shouldn't get high elves. Just because a race gets a sub-race doesn't mean that the main race is obsolete and now belongs to the opposite faction. So if the alliance got Zandalari trolls or Highmountain Tauren - essentially Tauren should be made obsolete on the horde and darkspears too? This is the logic behind people who feel because the alliance has void elves, therefore high elves, who've always been there just not playable) , should be obsolete.. worse is those who use the argument to say night elves mustn't have any Highborne or night elven arcane thing.

The logic is even more non-sensical, because the Highborne have been part of the night elves long before blizzard brought back Suramar into the game and the Nightborne - (a night elf sub-race) and then opted to take them horde), the night elves have always had arcane elements, even in the long vigil setting (before you even consider the Highborne in dire maul, then the Farondis, Moonguard, and Nightborne of 7.0), and that's just in game, in the lore, the genesis of the race is entirely arcane based, with an arcane and nature duality, it is illogical to demand and suggest that night elven fans wanting more visible representation for that part of their races lore shouldn't get it and must switch tot he horde, and play the night elf sub-race the Nightborne. It's like telling Draenei plays who like the light, that now Lightforged are available, and represent the light in an even stronger way, those who like that aspect in draenei must play Lightforged and only Lightforged should be developed. worse, is if Lightforged were placed on the horde, the equivalent demand seems to be that Draenei shouldn't get light development because Lightforged is on the horde now...--it's insane logic.

Yet, I am actually harassed for suggesting night elf arcane updates, almost as if I have no right to want them, ask for them or suggest them, or even worse, I have no right to desire. I'm told night elves abandoned this a long time ago, like I'm not aware of night elf lore, even though I try to point out that the arcane has always been a part of the night elves in some way or another and at a fundamental level (me and others have often demonstrated in detail (for a forum post that is), there are more to night elves than the long vigil, different types of night elves. Then as if to ignore that statement, I'm told how few the night elven Highborne out. I point out it doesn't matter how large or small their number is, it's a strong part of their fantasy and lore and history, their silver glowing yes, purple skin, even their priests and druids of the long vigil wield arcane spells when they summon the stars and moon - and regardless of how large or small the Highborne are, they are there, and they are not the only ones, we have Moonguard, we have Illidari - they are as mall group but have powerful fantasy that is represented. the void elves are a small group but have a powerful fantasy, how many small groups are out there but still have powerful representation? Darkspear trolls, gnomes, void elves, Illidari demon hunters, - but somehow a key part of night elf lore should be entirely neglected and unrepresented just because it's small or because the sub-race is on a faction that isn't based on those very alliance themes?

But because I argue to make my point I am cast as some alliance zealot? Maybe because I do have a point and I refuse their arguments, is why I challenge them back and don't just shut up - it's not because I'm some alliance zealot, there is a point there, why should I be public enemy number one, called delusional or crazy just because i argue for night elves to get part oft heir heritage back? Because horde elf fans don't like it and feel it belongs to them - and when I point out all of that representation their is alliance based not horde, and the high elves too should be based alliance - and I refuse to backdown, I am called names.

But i am not an alliance zealot, I like both factions, but when it comes to the elves I favour them for the alliance more because their lore and presentation is alliance themed and based, and so I argue for my point, not because i hate the horde. Not once (in my serious suggestions ) have i said the horde should lose blood elves - even though I have remarked they shouldn't have gone there in the first place, it's not a statement of hating the blood elves, but one of my opinion regarding the alignment of the races and the effect the switch caused, but it happened, and now it has happened, what can we do to redress the imbalance (an imbalance form the perspective of distinct faction identities )given that the horde must continue to have playable blood elves and models.. well the solution is simple, divorce those blodo elves in the lore and narrative from all things high elven and develop a different character and way of life that is not identical to the high elves.. move them away from it, like they were doing between TFT and TBC era, where blood elves were not classic high elves, but were more a bad boy , anti-hero and villainous type, but that got scrapped.. don't give them high elven civilization. this doesn't unmake them it just develops them differently. Because you don't want them to have or feel alliance type anymore.

i then proceed to point out the horde no longer needs to have/attract alliance players via the blood elves, they are already the majority and thriving faction, they don't need the blood elves to be high elven /human like in terms of culture and behaviour, they can now be developed into something else, in contrast it is the alliance that needs its elves looking high elven and shiny and available, it's night elves now showing the full extent of the great race they were originally designed to be. it amazes me that the Zandalari and every horde race can be portrayed as great, but the minute you suggest an alliance race other than human be portrayed as worth while, you are jumped on, because for some reason that is not allowed. And pointing out that elves makes the alliance more exciting above any other race and their fans are more excited about elves in Warcraft than any other race is proof this is where the focus must be if they want to make the alliance attractive.

What's wrong with letting the alliance actually be the more attractive faction for things like elves, arcane magic, cities, nobility, high society like religion and all the things Azeroth's alliance faction is based on while the horde actually represents other things - from your wounded minority to your aggressive evil guy, sure the alliance can have anti-hero wounded minorities barely accepted, and the horde can have noble minded people - but it is problematic when you make the noble-minded alliance-civilization type on the horde so big, it obscures the horde identity, and it is very big in the mind of players because many play blood elves and blood elves identity is too alliance based. it would problematic if your persecuted minority or anti-hero type were huge on the alliance in a very visible and more attractive way than on the horde it warps the alliance identity.

it's not to say the alliance can't have anti-hero /persecuted minority or even aggressive evil types - but his must be a minority , small part, part of something that is either being fought or far less visible.. same with the horde, it can have alliance type/minded lot that eschew alliance values, but they cannot be large, shiny and pompous type.. this is why when I suggested the blood elves get developed to have different things and a non-high elven identity, i did say players should still have access to the current model for those who want to play a high elf type blood elf, and some of the blood elf npcs can be written to hold on to those values, but they should be a minority, like 1 in 10, the majority of the blood elves should embrace the new direction and it should be cool, because we want the horde elven players to take to this non-high elven portrayal, and even customise their characters to it, so the majority of them would not only feel distinct from a narrative and presentation perspective but mostly look distinct by picking up those appearances.




Sadly, instead of consider the logic of this, even if they don't' support it, you notice how i am attacked for standing my ground and refusing to alter my point, or abandon rational and logic because it's not popular and because I'm bullied. Well I have taken a beaten for y beliefs before , by people who don't like what i have to say, even when there is truth to it and sense to it, I'm not about to start changing the facts and logic because they hate me. it's just my idea and desire, why should i change it/ i haven o power to implement it in game, it's not been implemented in game either yet, and the devs certainly aren't listening in , why attack me for that?

They talk about my points being some death of the horde, thunder does, in a complete over reaction, did the alliance die when the blood elves went over? and that was a far bigger thing because the blood elves are high elves and alliance based and themed, and when they were placed on the horde they were done in an incredible way that out shone everything on the alliance, you basically had all the things alliance does, done best in the blood elves which matches the lore) and that now on the horde, that didn't destroy the alliance, but it was a serious blow to it, because the blood elves are alliance themed and you having the best of the alliance represented on the horde, the opposite will not be true of those things return to the alliance, because that part of the blood elves is not horde based at all, it coming back to the alliance is not the same things as it was when the blood elves or Nightborne went over, it's impact won't be as huge, because it's not a horde theme that is coming back, it's an alliance theme, that was always alliance and still is alliance even if it is on the horde, that is returning, the horde will not suffer anywhere near as much as the alliance did, it won't lure horde minded players over, just the alliance minded ones that are on the horde, and they would have some attractive things on the horde to stay there if they choose too, because the horde isn't losing the blood elf model, just the high elf society that is in the blood elves, they wont' be losing the Nightborne model either, just the kaldorei civilization/empire society on them, they would have just have a period where they can't lord it over alliance scum or have bragging rights for being so alliance like (something that if you think about it is absurd, all those horde elf players feeling arrogant and contemptuous because blood elves are prettier and better than humans are glorifying in the horde for being so alliance like - oh the irony) it is better if they become proud of the horde for being horde like. With the horde extremely popular, in a day and age, where it si more popular to be the monster, or the afflicted one, or the anti-hero one, trust me, as long as the horde keep the models, they are not in danger by losing the alliance shininess of the high elf kingdom and the kaldorei civilization.

The alliance has to have some attractions over the horde, you can't have the horde keep the beset parts of the alliance, the better alliance type cities, have the better type alliance models, and also have the cool monsters, bad boys, anti hero types too, and expect the alliance to compete and be equal. So the horde losing the pretty city and civilization back tot he alliance, but keeping its model is going to be more than enough.

and this is how it should be, the blood elf model which is the high elf should not be unique to the horde because it's high elven, you no longer need that net lure to the horde, and because you can't remove the model, they will have to share, no longer should players be drawn to pick the horde over the alliance because the prettier model is there, this is nullified by them both having the pretty model. if the blood elf model is then added cool OPTIONAL bad boy and monster customisations (like the fel horns the demon hunter model has, vampire fang appearances, and blood red eyes and undead skin tone appearances - something that the high elf equivalent will not have) in addition to some new things that represent (blood crystals, nether magic - or whatever they do for the blood elves) then you encourage appearance silhouette changes, which while optional, if attractive or cool enough will entice blood elf players to largely pick it minimising the amount who just keep the high elf appearance. Allowing the factions to be different.

But the main thing is in the narrative, the cities, the culture of the high elves and the kaldorei leave the horde, Suramar aligns itself with the alliance in addition to most of it's elves regaining their night elven appearance thanks to the healing of the Arcan'dor this is preceded by the blood elves in Quel'thalas who chose to finally re-identify as high elves - leaving those who remain blood elves and Nightborne (who reject the night elven transformation and not only halt it magically, but refuse the direction of Suramar) to be a small remnant. The point is if that remnant want to continue operating as high elves and kaldorei pre-sundering society, then they shouldn't be impactful in lore decisions, they should be small, very occasionally used because you don't want this to dominate the horde as it's too alliancey. But, if you instead take it a different direction and the remnant divorce that alliance-based culture, those alliance themes and develop new ones more compatible to the horde or at least different to the alliance - (examples are given in the naga, the San'layn, the bad boy anti-hero Illdiari , but not limited to these), you can make these a lot more prominent, because now they aren't looking and feeling alliance anymore, their prominence won't detract from the uniqueness oft he horde over the alliance, but add to it.

[Traveler Voltin]

It could be an argument to introduce a Spellreaker class that combines light and void attacks, that would be real cool since ppl really love paladins and it could be made available to Void elves. Or a Cleric. Or a bard?? x

the point of a spellbreaker is to destroy or control an enemies magic. they are anti magic users.

[Eleann]

You could conceptualize a Void Elf paladin as a discipline priest in plate, which would be fun to play. Spellbreakers themselves have a bit of a discipline priest thing going on too, especially older disc design with mana burn, plus all the dispels and stuff that seems really in line with spellbreakers. Bards would be amazing as always, and I would love that for Void Elves.

What is your idea of a cleric class though?

Thinking about it, Cleric might not be a good idea as it will probably be too similar to Paladin (having in mind the Rift cleric).

I've seen a lot of posts about the possibility of adding a Tinker class. I would not like that one too much, I think it's too niche of a choice and does not particularly fit with elf races (they are very much magic centered). But would fit well with races such as gnomes, mechagnomes, goblins, vulpera etc. Probably too niche to fit every player's taste.

We can agree that most love Paladins, so a Spellbreaker could get very popular, very quick. With the addition of High elven hair to Void elves and the Spellbreaker class being made available, a Void elf Spellbreaker would be very popular. I can imagine it functioning as a Tank with anti-caster spells and interrupts such as their own type of Holy Anti-Magic Shell and Void style interrupts and stuns, a utility, CC kind of Tank/DPS. With regards to a Healing spec, Voidy dark matter absorption shields for the entire group and some holy blasts of heals like a Holy priest's Divine Star would make him be inspired from several other specs but be unique at the same time.

With regards to a Bard, it would certainly be a very epic addition. Initially, I had a bit of struggle to imagine how they would play as DPS, but after a short chat with my fiance we concluded that it could turn into a potentially very fun spec with much induced giggles! They could use violins, harps, flutes and electric guitars even, and abilities such as ''Music Throw'' could see them literally launch their instrument right onto their target's head! ''Music slam'' can have them do a dash and jump back ability to the enemy, giving them a swift hit in the head with their instrument, and ''Sonar Wave'' can make them do a loud solo, excerting waves of damage to the enemies! And ofcourse their lovely healing and support specs can see them play their instrument with beautiful sounds coming out, different melodies resulting to a different type of heal, dancing animations for AOE heals and supportive abilities etc.

[Tanaria]

I love how this Ravenmoon keeps waffling about developing Blood Elves and Nightborne into something different...yet always mentions we have to lose all of our lore characters. So how can they be developed and have no lore characters? Oh wait...they can't and he knows it.

And who cares about Venthyr or their style? They aren't Sin'dorei or Shal'dorei...oh wait, because Kael'thas is there, suddenly the zone is a "Blood Elf" zone. No, it isn't. It's a zone full of creatures who looks more like Dreadlords.

How about Silvermoon and Suramar stay Horde, where they belong and Alliance actually get development and Blizzard hire writers who can write beyond "Humans and pals." I don't know how many times this needs to be said, but I'm going to say it again.

Alliance problem is the Alliance writing (Christie Golden and crew.) They can't write anything beyond the Humans. It's been like this since Mists of Pandaria. Jaina, Anduin and Matthias are their big favorites. That is your problem. Look at Night Elves...growing pumpkins in Stormwind and even with the Night Warrior buff, they still couldn't beat Nathanos, Delaryn and Sira immediately. Whilst Jaina and the Humans of Kul'Tiras, as well as other Alliance races, storms Dazar'alor and kills the King. This is the problem. You won't solve the "Humans and the rest" with robbing from the Horde.

Voice these issues to Blizzard. Not "Let's just rob from the Horde and the Horde can be left with scraps and look like scavengers."

[ravenmoon]

Thinking about it, Cleric might not be a good idea as it will probably be too similar to Paladin (having in mind the Rift cleric).

I've seen a lot of posts about the possibility of adding a Tinker class. I would not like that one too much, I think it's too niche of a choice and does not particularly fit with elf races (they are very much magic centered). But would fit well with races such as gnomes, mechagnomes, goblins, vulpera etc. Probably too niche to fit every player's taste.

We can agree that most love Paladins, so a Spellbreaker could get very popular, very quick. With the addition of High elven hair to Void elves and the Spellbreaker class being made available, a Void elf Spellbreaker would be very popular. I can imagine it functioning as a Tank with anti-caster spells and interrupts such as their own type of Holy Anti-Magic Shell and Void style interrupts and stuns, a utility, CC kind of Tank/DPS. With regards to a Healing spec, Voidy dark matter absorption shields for the entire group and some holy blasts of heals like a Holy priest's Divine Star would make him be inspired from several other specs but be unique at the same time.

With regards to a Bard, it would certainly be a very epic addition. Initially, I had a bit of struggle to imagine how they would play as DPS, but after a short chat with my fiance we concluded that it could turn into a potentially very fun spec with much induced giggles! They could use violins, harps, flutes and electric guitars even, and abilities such as ''Music Throw'' could see them literally launch their instrument right onto their target's head! ''Music slam'' can have them do a dash and jump back ability to the enemy, giving them a swift hit in the head with their instrument, and ''Sonar Wave'' can make them do a loud solo, excerting waves of damage to the enemies! And ofcourse their lovely healing and support specs can see them play their instrument with beautiful sounds coming out, different melodies resulting to a different type of heal, dancing animations for AOE heals and supportive abilities etc.

I like the idea of a new version of class that can highlight the high elves. I have always been in favour of racial flavours, or skins or variation to the core class theme that gets adapted to each race. If not different ability mechanics (at least a few ones, but that would a be nightmare to balance giving the share combinations) we could at least have "select class skins" for strong class identities for various races. So basically not every race/class combo gets a class skin, just a few that are famous and popular in lore and that highlight the distinctiveness of races. Before I return to the high elf ones, let me give a few examples of skins.

Examples:
Tidesage skin for shaman (available only to Kul'tiran and humans) this auto implies humans get a shaman class, but your default will be the tidesage class skin, you can opt to gain the traditional shaman one after some sort of achievement , learning it from a non-alliance trainer. Options can exist for non- humans and Kul'tirans if blizzard so desires, but they have to have gained some requirements, like need to have completed Stormsong valley quests or something.

Using this template for others here is a simple list:

• Necromancer skin for warlocks - (yes I am aware necromancer could be it's own new class - it's up to blizzard to decide)
• Blademaster skin for Demon hunters - this opens up the demon hunter class to all other races, but they come with the default Blademaster skin and unlike Tidesage won't have the option to gain the DH skin - that remains exclusive to night elves and blood elves (at least for now)
• Ranger skin for hunters - available to all elves. Blood & High elves get Farstrider twist to theirs, void elves, kaldorei sentinels etc get some - these could be minor spell alterations, e.g. a Nightborne and night elf hunter can have arcane skin option that has a lot more arcane spells to them, while a sentinel skin and void hunter will have different effects, yes this means some races may have more than one alternate skin.
• Beastmaster skin for hunters - available to Orc, Mag'har, Troll and Zandalari
• Moon Priest skin for priests - available to Night elves and Nightborne
• Runemaster skin for mages - available to dwarven, Kul'tiran mages
• Arcanitol skn for mages - available to Zandalari and darkspear mages
• Starmancer highborne skin for mages - available to night elf and nightborne
• Sun mage skin - available to high elves and blood elves
• Blood mage skin - available to blood elves.
• Void mage skin - available to void elves

• Valewalker skin for druids - available to Night elves and nightborne (allowing nightborne druids)
• Illidari skin for warlocks - available to blood elves and night elves (allowing night elf druids who'd be locked to those skin - i.e. can't skin to a normal warlock because such don't exist amongst night elves)

Now as you can see, some of these (like the mage and hunter ones) don't actually need a full class skin refit, just some minor adjustments to abilities to reflect the race, take void elves and Lightforged, they don't need a class skin for every class, they're probably better suited to just some abilities having a void or light graphic for their spell, rather than a detailed identity like a Necromancer or Blademaster might warrant. There might be a better system to actually represent or bring a racial flavour to all classes as opposed to lots of class skins, leaving class skins to be something really special for notorious flavours like Tidesage, Moon priest, Necromancer and Blademaster, meanwhile a different system can be implemented to bring race flavour.

Race flaoru
So in addition to a few select class skins, every race is given a range of racial abitilies. These are spells and abilities that are unique to their race. They are COSMETIC changes like glyphs are, not a new mechanic or unique spell, they are there to bring a racial flavour.
1 melee ability (unique animation)
1 aoe melee ability
1 ranged spell ( can be used for instant or timed spells)
1 aoe spell
1 healing spell
1 aoe heal spell
1 special ability
1 arrow/bullet ability

Every race will get one, some races might share (e.g. Zandalari and Darkspear, Nightborne and night elf, Highmountain and tauren etc, but not all, void elves would have a unique one, but then they may share the spell racial abilities with Mag'har orcs (but only the spell ones), Vulpera will have a unique one - those who share might share some racial abilities where it fits their lore, whiles others they may not. Let me give an example:

Night elf racial abilities:
1 melee abilitiy - whips out a glaive (the sentinel one) and strikes call it moon strike
1 aoe abilitiy - use the same glaive (tauren use their totem, nightborne use a conjured weapon, blood elves use the polearm glaives the royal guard have)
1 ranged spell - a moon lance or star fire spell (nightborne share this)
1 aoe spell - a starfall or nightfall spell (nightborne also share this)
1 special ability - shooting star (nightborne also share.
1 healing spell - Moon soothe (nightborne share this)
1 aoe healing spell - Overgrowth (tauren and highmountain share this)

The way this works is that you can glyph a racial spell to one of your main abilities, and it will convert that spell's name and graphics to the racial spell. So your spell book has a racial tab where these racial spells are listed.. If i click on Nightfrall, it will give me the option to glyph nightfall onto 1 of my aoe spells, nightfall's will now have the damage and cooldown of that spell, and will be the graphic that casts instead of that spell . e.g. Frost mage blizzard, if i can assign nightfall to blizzard, blizzard on my spell book and action bar wil now show the Nightfall spell instead, and every time i cast it it will cast nightfall, that nightfall spell will have the same mana costs, damage, range, cooldown etc of blizzard, it isn't a new mechanic, it is a cosmetic substitue.



High Elf Spellbreakers, Bards etc
Back to the
This certainly predisposes some races to certain classes - but not based on racials but on cosmetics. I think this is a good idea, because in the lore some races have very strong identities for certain classes, and it's natural that these should be available to players and that we'll see more of certain types of classes on some races over others because of these customisation class skins.

We know they are arcane based for sure, much of that was played up in the blood elves, as was the light.. the light focus shifting more to the priest side than the paladin, or at least the paladin side augmented by the priest would be a good development.

Spellbreakers and Bards would be a sort of make your mark on the group, every race/group has signature classes that are more emphasised than others, or at least start that way.

The ranger, the spellbreaker and Bard could be the distinctive opening class identities of the high elf. Bards can be type of hunter, but they are best as a class of their own, modelled on the charming, charismatic musician, from the wayfarer days of the high elves, those high elves who weren't in Quel'thalas, and needed to sing for their supper and charm their way, with a little bit of magic added to music.

Spellbreaker is a type of priest/mage combo (could be the face of the priest side of the high elves, something that is unique to all other priesthoods.

- - - Updated - - -

I love how this Ravenmoon keeps waffling about developing Blood Elves and Nightborne into something different...yet always mentions we have to lose all of our lore characters. So how can they be developed and have no lore characters? Oh wait...they can't and he knows it.

And who cares about Venthyr or their style? They aren't Sin'dorei or Shal'dorei...oh wait, because Kael'thas is there, suddenly the zone is a "Blood Elf" zone. No, it isn't. It's a zone full of creatures who looks more like Dreadlords.

How about Silvermoon and Suramar stay Horde, where they belong and Alliance actually get development and Blizzard hire writers who can write beyond "Humans and pals." I don't know how many times this needs to be said, but I'm going to say it again.

Alliance problem is the Alliance writing (Christie Golden and crew.) They can't write anything beyond the Humans. It's been like this since Mists of Pandaria. Jaina, Anduin and Matthias are their big favorites. That is your problem. Look at Night Elves...growing pumpkins in Stormwind and even with the Night Warrior buff, they still couldn't beat Nathanos, Delaryn and Sira immediately. Whilst Jaina and the Humans of Kul'Tiras, as well as other Alliance races, storms Dazar'alor and kills the King. This is the problem. You won't solve the "Humans and the rest" with robbing from the Horde.

Voice these issues to Blizzard. Not "Let's just rob from the Horde and the Horde can be left with scraps and look like scavengers."

Christie golden didn't ruin the alliance, I don't for one second believe that. I think it's unfair of fans to scapegoat her like that and it's false too and I suspect a deflection to hide the real issue with the alliance. The alliance has been in this state since TBC kicked off, long before she got involved in wow, stop deflecting and blaming her, she doesn't control the creative direction, she is given jobs to do, and while she can contribute and influence, it's very unfair to blame her for the alliance problems, when the issue is clearly that the horde is too attractive to alliance type players because of the the alliance themes it has. This is not an issue that can be ignored by blaming Christie.

The alliance had it's best assets taken to the horde, which spreads its over both factions instead of just one, and also devalues it. Blizzard has had a 14 year policy of preferring the horde over the alliance, defaulting the coolest creations and additions to the horde over the alliance, this constant preferential treatment has not only established the horde as the cooler faction, but the go to also, and this affects the alliance.

We only needed the horde's reputation to be fixed, in classic, it was perceived as the bad faction, the lame faction, the evil faction etc etc, it wasn't popular. Blood elves were the start of the turn around, but blizzard did a lot more, they constantly promoted the horde, put the horde in the spotlight, the centre of attention , this was all intentional, to raise its profile and it worked, the horde no longer need high elf cities and stuff to maintain this -and 2018 classic relaunch proves this, the horde in the exact same classic, relaunch is much more popular than it was in 2004, despite it being the exact same game. What's changed? the reputation has. horde is not perceived as the lame and loser faction, and monster races are cool and edgy today while in 2004, it was 90s mindset where the noble good guy was far more popular

so when you have the horde having the best noble good guy types in the blood elves and Queen of nobility Thalyssra along with all the other things the alliance is supposed to be good at and represent, you have a problem.

It has little to nothing to do with Christie golden. even if you write engaging stories for the alliance and its other races, it won't be enough you need to work at making them popular just like they did for the horde in 2006 with TBC, you need a fantastic launch that puts the alliance back on the map and some really good changes that come its way, the type that get fans excited, and trust me fans get more excited about high elves and night elves than they do about dwarves/draenei/gnomes/worgen COMBINED - it doesn't mean you abandon draenei/worgen etc, they need good stories too, but you can't ignore the elves, your biggest asset are the high elves and the night elves, so make it really cool, shine the spotlight make a big shiny deal of the Return of the High elves and the Rise of the Kaldorei, let the alliance feel big and proud.

In the mean time you don't abandon the horde, they would take elven losses, but they would also gain more trolls, improve orcs, improve goblins - those things would be good also, but the emphasis would be on the alliance to put it back on the map and make it look exciting and appealing once more, that coupled with the horde losing its alliance themes will make the alliance the place for those who like that sort of thing, and the horde the place to go for edgy types, anti-hero types, monster and furry types as well as bad boy and even evil types. - the horde's asset would be it's great range, but that range will just no longer have the alliance stuff on its belt - it may have a vestige of it in that fraction of the remnant blood elves and Nightborne, but most blood elves and Nightborne would be cool edgy and bad boy types, no longer the alliance minded likes they are now, (with the odd exception amongst them fighting for their former values, ones that didn't turn back tot heir high elven ways and rejected the kaldorei reversal process thee Arcan'dor was giving).