Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

correct me if I'm wrong here but her attempt to shoot at him looked like a gesture of hostility with intent to kill, almost like when Genn did the Stormheim

It's literally treated as a joke in game my dude, it's literally NPC flavor text. If no one in universe even brings it up as an issue, like let's say Rommath himself, he never felt in actual danger enough to care. JFC

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I make lots of fun suggestions, you're just biased against me.

When I make suggestions, you and your ilk, immediately jump to criticism and disdain, because you get upset or you don't like. Then I respond to you, cos I'm not just gonna sit down and get trashed by guys for no real reason other than they don't like my suggestions, which favour the alliance elves and restoring elfdom on the alliance.

You don't consider it fairly or reasonable. Which would be a lot more fun. You have to get rude, and personal or abusive

I have been pretty clear that I find you argument about "elves belonging to the alliance" to be utter nonsense. In all the discussion you have failed to address the backlash towards your premise, as if it were self evident and intrinsic.

You are not even making an argument, you are just basing your whole reasoning on a downright asinine premise; that's not a personal attack even if you would consider it so. Again, I think your whole "elves are alliance coded" premise is just bad, and you have done nothing to strengthen it as an argument.

And as such, any argumentation that you make over that contested premise is just going to be flawed.

And I am self aware enough to realize I am heavily alliance biased, yet I can see how preposterous against the Horde your suggestions are. You claim I am biased against you, don't you realize how ridiculously biased against the Horde your suggestions are? There's nothing fair or reasonable about your proposals about removing elven identity from BE and NB, because you believe that elven identity is intrinsically alliance.

[ravenmoon]

And I am self aware enough to realize I am heavily alliance biased, yet I can see how preposterous against the Horde your suggestions are. You claim I am biased against you, don't you realize how ridiculously biased against the Horde your suggestions are? There's nothing fair or reasonable about your proposals about removing elven identity from BE and NB, because you believe that elven identity is intrinsically alliance.

You only think that because you don't like the suggestions, but I am not heavily biased against the horde at all. I'm not even biased against the horde elf section.

But you are so convinced you understand what I am, you haven't even considered it properly.

That elven identity in the blood elves and Nightborne is alliance. It's too alliance, it it is left on the horde, you have the horde remaining with alliance on it (is that really the best thing for Warcraft? Alliance on the horde too?). Technically speaking in the narrative sense, taking those Blood elves back to the alliance as High elves and those Nightborne to the alliance by turning them into night elves is not removing their elven identity at all but placing it on the faction that represents such things.

The remnant/few remaining blood elves and Nightborne, do not have to be elven in that high elf sense or night elf sense to be considered blood elves or Nightborne. It is an assumption of yours that in order to be elven, they must continue in the way they are right now. The way they are right now is too alliance based, so they simply need to change that to make the factions more distinct again. AS for losing Suramar and Quel'thalas and the culture stuff, it removes or at least significantly reduces the alliance lure that they have been so far. High elves fully being available on the alliance in all their glory at the same time as horde blood elves losing the high elven assets and behaviour will squarely put that version of elvenness on the alliance only. So players who like that and want that - that is alliance for you, they go there.

This is what you want in this game, and what it needs, the alliance is about all the things the high elf kingdom and the night elven civilization represent, the humans and dwarves too - that type of civilization, type of ideals, nobility, arcane magic, way of thinking etc, these are the hallmarks of what the alliance is built upon. it is the faction that represents the ancient cultures of humans, elves and dwarves on the Eastern kingdom that vein( derived originally from the kaldorei - the first of that type of living).

To have that on the horde, and keep it on the horde greatly affects the alliance and dilutes the horde. you may not like this conclusion and my insult me all you want. But as long as blood elves are parading as high elves, and Nightborne living high as kaldorei civilization elves, while their alliance counterparts are crappy remnants, and the alliance races clearly second best in all those things the alliance is known for, you would always have a net flow to the horde, because the horde will continually lure alliance minded types because of blood elves being this way and Nightborne in addition to those drawn to the horde faction for the original horde races they are.

If you want to repopulate the alliance, elves have to be more attractive on it, more visible. Do this well and the alliance will be an exciting place for those type of players and will attract enough of its crowd back. And since blood elves and Nightborne won't be losing their models, the horde will not fall apart either, their elves can afford to suffer a little (I'm not saying this cos I hate the horde) and can afford to be redrawn into something else - because they are on the horde faction, and being something different from high elf and Night elf is better suited for the horde because those races aren't horde based.

It's not the only way, it has never been, but it is going to be the most effective way and the fastest, and can be the greatest way if done properly. There is a reason I suggested this is done by the horde elven npc populations turning back to the alliance instead of being destroyed. there is a reason I suggested that Silvermoon/Quel'thalas and Suramar all go to the alliance. There is a reason I suggested that more troll, orc, tauren, goblin assets and cities come into replace the elven stuff lost - in a visible way because it promotes the horde core fantasy . There is a reason i also suggested that a little later, the blood elves and Nightborne build up again, but this time not as high elves or kaldorei types, but something more unique - this isn't hard to imagine, I gave examples of the naga, the Pandaren, the San'layn, the Venthyr as examples of what unique can be, and I gave examples of Kael'thas' TBC Sunsworn and Elisande's loyalists as examples of how these elves were actually shaping out to look quite different from the high elf/night elf model they were instead given - as an example of how it could go, not insisting his is how they should go.

If you want your white shining knight, really, the alliance is where you should be, not vicariously living alliance dreams on the horde through noble Nightborne and white knight blood elves - that's an alliance fantasy. if you take that fantasy to the horde too, and make it even more attractive like they did, you make the horde more attractive over the alliance to alliance type players, and you diminish or pollute the vein of the horde.


I'm not being angry or vindictive or horde hating at all by using this language, a person that wants to restore the core and distinct fantasies of both factions doesn't hate them. If you perceive the loss of high elven and night elven facets to the horde elves as horde hating, then you have an elf and alliance centric view on the horde. This is problematic. You think a person that wants to remove the alliance fantasy themes and elements on the horde is spouting horde hate when the only ones negatively affected are the two most alliance horde races who in his proposal actually, eventually make new gains that could even equal or exceed their previous state - that is not horde hate. But you probably never read that far, you read a few lines, jumped to conclusions, and tried to sound intelligent about such an unwise act - feeling that would be enough... Well, it isn't, all anyone has to do is simply read what has been said through and it is quite easy to see.

[Tanaria]

SNIP

All your agenda is, is "I'm still salty after 3 years of Horde getting Nightborne. Waaaaaah Waaaaaah Waaaaaah!"

Get over it and move on.

[Eleann]

But as long as blood elves are parading as high elves, and Nightborne living high as kaldorei civilization elves, while their alliance counterparts are crappy remnants, and the alliance races clearly second best in all those things the alliance is known for, you would always have a net flow to the horde, because the horde will continually lure alliance minded types because of blood elves being this way and Nightborne in addition to those drawn to the horde faction for the original horde races they are.

If you want to repopulate the alliance, elves have to be more attractive on it, more visible. Do this well and the alliance will be an exciting place for those type of players and will attract enough of its crowd back. And since blood elves and Nightborne won't be losing their models, the horde will not fall apart either, their elves can aford to suffer a little (i'm not saying this cos I hate the horde) and can afford to be redrawn into something else - because they are on the horde faction, and being something different from high elf and Night elf is better suited for the horde because those raecs aren't horde based.

So much this. I am not agreeing that Blood elves and Nightborne should lose their identity, but people are so hyped about these races that they shamelessly defend them and insult the Alliance over them because they feel like master races. I can confirm I have been the receiver of repeated RP attacks by Nightborne players in my threads in the forums, calling me ''lowborn scum, you do not deserve anything, be grateful for what you got, you are the lesser race, etc''. These remarks have made me feel horrible for choosing to play a Void elf. I feel insulted as a player because automatically this renders me a second class player of WoW because of the race I play. They just call themselves Highborn and RP in the forums. It's ridiculous and disgusting tbh.

On the other side a few posters are just saying we are Void elves, not Blood elves, and thus deserve only Voidy customization. Not only did we not get High elves but the Void elves we never asked for, now we have to deal with that as well. Despite the fact that they know Void elves come from Blood elves who come from High elves, and that the Alliance has been requesting High elves for so many years.

So what was achieved in the end? Nightborne players RP'ing in forums calling themselves Highborn and feeling entitled to bully all posters with Void elf avatars and calling them lesser races, and hordies thinking it's reasonable to limit Void elves to voidy customization, despite us having more than enough of that already, and again knowing very well that we asked for High elves, not Void elves, and more voidy stuff will just make things 10 times worse because of that. All Blizzard managed to do, was create more hate between the factions' players, and boost the Horde even more than the Alliance once again.

Again, I do not desire for Nightborne and Blood elves to lose their identities. But for crying out loud Blizzard stop giving us LESSER stuff all the fuckin time!! You burnt Shaladrassil and made Night elves homeless!! You gave us Void elves instead of High elves so everyone could just talk about how fugly our tentacles were all the darn time, and an assy lore for the Void elves to pair it up with. Things are still looking very bleak for the Alliance.

[Traveler Voltin]

i am perfectly fine with Void elves getting natural hair color if blood elves get tattoos.
night elves always being bullied sucks and its annoying.

[ravenmoon]

@ravenmoon You are right in many aspects. They would not like to admit it but your words ring true for much of the Horde population who actually cares about aesthetics and lore. But the point is not to keep fighting them. In fact, I really think we need the support of the Horde in achieving what we want. Because the Horde has a lot more active population than the Alliance, and because some of our fellow allies simply do not care enough to fight for this. Do you think there are many girls left in the Alliance who really care about aesthetics? Most of them have just switched to Horde because they do not care about allegiance, but looks, and the Horde had them much, much better for 14 years because of Blood elves. I keep trying and trying, I have posted on the EU forums, on Twitter, on here, I even tried to get in touch with Ion. But I do not seem to have much influence. Because, I will repeat, most of the darn active playerbase is actually Horde asking for Nightborne. Streamers, artists, the devs themselves are all just playing Horde and just care for the Horde.

You're right, the point is not to fight them, I'm not even trying to or want to. But they do keep coming at me. Look at the responses, most of the times I'm cordially responding, going to great lengths to explain what I'm trying to communicate - but it is often quite clear what heart they come with and from their responses it's clear to me they haven't read what I've said. I may not be the best at communicating, but it is clear English (my native tongue).

it's not always like that, sometimes they do make points worthy of a response, but you've heard the language and the arguments, it becomes clear that it doesn't matter how reasonable you are, or what you propose, , they'd say anything, come up with anything, twist everything to somehow invalidate what you've said in support of playable high elves or night elves getting more of their high elf and kaldorei civilization aspects of their race on their faction - presumably because they feel that this part of high elves and night elves belongs to the horde because blood elves and Nightborne were placed their having all the assets of the high elves and the night elves. And can't seem to understand what the problem is with this for the game, for the factions, for faction identity, and how it is affecting player choices and faction selecting, not to mention themes.

Point this out and suggest change that removes this - and you're a horde hater heavily biased against the horde? Never mind that every loss you've proposed has been doubly compensated, in fact if you were truly impartial you would see it was a restructuring, re-aligning, not a faction nerf. horde loses high elf and night elf empire stuff, because that's alliance based, and gain orc/troll/tauren/goblin etc things and a new direction for remaining blood elves/Nightborne - what this achieves? An attractive and exciting alliance to draw more players back, a more balanced and thematically distinct and whole Alliance and horde, in the vein of Warcraft's core.

It's not the only way to be, but it's a good way to be, how is this anti-horde.

But it seems that way on here, because as you say spot on, the horde has a lot more active players, and vocal ones. Most of the alliance players don't post on lore issues or theme issues, also many have gone to the horde because that's where they get guilds and groups. So their dominance is far more present. The horde is the exciting faction, so guess what, it is its fans that are going to be more vocal on the boards, because they have a lot more going for them, and are happier (despite their displeasure at recent plot twists), but they dwarf the active alliance fans.

But these guys never wonder why, they're just enjoying ganging up on the few alliance players still active because it is easy and fun and they can pat themselves on the back and go well done, while ignoring what's actually going on, because their yes man who would echo their bias are all around them and they've screamed out counter voice, on listening to them or considering what they say, but dismissed them because they don't like what they say and don't want them to to get better. Why? Because they view them as their enemies, they're the other faction, the one they must always be superior too, the in game construct has totally encompassed their view and stance. Therefore a player like me who plays both factions equally, is viewed as alliance fanatic and hating just because i firmly believe that it is better for the game and factions that the high elven and night elven stuff - all their lore aspects should be home on the alliance.

So just the elven races, one of many, and that makes me horde hating. Now who has the bias?

[Tanaria]

Hey guys...don't worry, Silvermoon still had all Horde NPCs with Horde leaders in it yesterday and it's still here today.

Considering MMO champion makes up 0.1% of the actual playerbase, I'd say that these ridiculous demands are not likely to even reach the ears of the main reception staff at blizzard HQ, let alone the story team.

EDIT:
Oh and as an FYI - Kael'Thas Sunstrider's forces were named the "Sunfury" and they returned to Quel'Thalas after he betrayed the Blood Elves. He had no army called the "Sunsworn"...that was a group of Blood Knights, Magi and Rangers under Liadrin on AU Draenor.

[Beloren]

I think the void elves should get an amazing capital, but it needs to have a use.

[Tanaria]

I think the void elves should get an amazing capital, but it needs to have a use.

They should, but it depends on what Blizzard wants to do and how they want to treat it.

I'd say that expanding Allerian Stronghold on Outland, which unites High Elves and Void Elves, might be a good idea.
They could take the Firewing Point area and re-do that whole area into a void-section, which still has the Thalassian Architecture, but rather than it being the red and gold of Horde Silvermoon, it's void, blue and gold - symbolic of the Ren'dorei leadership, but also their union with the High Elves.

This could also allow Night Elves and Humans and visit as they are also on decent terms with these Thalassian Elves. Night Elves' relations with the Alliance Thalassian Elves has been developing and now they seem to be on decent terms. Night Elves were located inside the Allerian Stronghold, so as guests and visitors, the site works well as an Alliance City and a Void Elf City.

Or they could go with Telogrus Rift, if they wanted to expand that.

Or, the more controversial option might be something like the Zin-Azshari Ruins, which are developed into a Thalassian/Highborne City, where Void and Arcane knowledge is stored and documented. Plus, the city being reclaimed by the Zin-Azshari descendants could be quite poetic. This might work if they want all races to be have holdings, bases and cities on Azeroth.

I must say, I do prefer Allerian Stronghold. I'd see nothing bad about removing the Horde presence from the forest, but perhaps this means the Alliance is pushed out of Hellfire Peninsula, so the Alliance get a forest zone and Horde get a barren zone.

[Eleann]

They should, but it depends on what Blizzard wants to do and how they want to treat it.

Everyone, I am deeply moved by your support. The community in this site seems so much better than all the randoms commenting and attacking in the forums. It is really appreciated. I understand that ofcourse there are disagreements between some but that is something natural. And while we may not agree with all the things @ravenmoon says, I appreciate that he tries to fight for the Alliance cause, and among his replies there are truths that need to be addressed. We should all unite and work together for a better WoW that is not riddled with so much hate between the two factions' playerbase. If the economy does not crash the company before we get to see any of the things we dream of happening

[FossilFree]

I think Blood Elves would have been cooler with a savage or even tribal spin on elves that really fits the Horde (Blood Elf shaman please). This is why I like the original fel elf theme so much, before the Sunwell raid watered it down and holy eyes later came out. It just seemed really Horde-y, almost the same story as the orcs with their fall from grace and subsequent anti-hero redemption direction. Blizzard should have doubled and tripled down on that fel theme, with glowing fel fire eyes, horns, and maybe even wings years before Demon Hunters were even being considered for a class.

Now we have Lightforged Blood Elves, and it honestly feels thematically wrong based on how they were originally introduced. I really wish they would just pick one and go for it 100% though. If lightforged is the new direction, then Blood Elves should be getting glowing tips on their hair, skin tones that appear to shimmer with light (kind of like the Sundancer rare in Bastion), and tattoos with arcane shapes that glow gold (divine magic, which is arcane + holy).

[Traveler Voltin]

blood elves are not lightforged.

[FossilFree]

blood elves are not lightforged.

Sorry, I meant "lightforged."

Just a handy term, not literally lightforged like draenei.

[Traveler Voltin]

Sorry, I meant "lightforged."

Just a handy term, not literally lightforged like draenei.

the sunwell is half light and half arcane. it also affects all high elves and blood elves.

[FossilFree]

the sunwell is half light and half arcane. it also affects all high elves and blood elves.

I guess you could call it "divineforged" or something then, since that is divine magic.

That brings up an interesting loophole though, if all High Elves are affected, wouldn't that mean Void Elves are too? "Divineforged" Void Elves sounds pretty hilarious actually. I guess it could be a lore argument for Void Elf paladins though?

[Eleann]

I guess you could call it "divineforged" or something then, since that is divine magic.
That brings up an interesting loophole though, if all High Elves are affected, wouldn't that mean Void Elves are too? "Divineforged" Void Elves sounds pretty hilarious actually. I guess it could be a lore argument for Void Elf paladins though?

It could be an argument to introduce a Spellreaker class that combines light and void attacks, that would be real cool since ppl really love paladins and it could be made available to Void elves. Or a Cleric. Or a bard?? x

[FossilFree]

It could be an argument to introduce a Spellreaker class that combines light and void attacks, that would be real cool since ppl really love paladins and it could be made available to Void elves. Or a Cleric. Or a bard?? x

You could conceptualize a Void Elf paladin as a discipline priest in plate, which would be fun to play. Spellbreakers themselves have a bit of a discipline priest thing going on too, especially older disc design with mana burn, plus all the dispels and stuff that seems really in line with spellbreakers. Bards would be amazing as always, and I would love that for Void Elves.

What is your idea of a cleric class though?

[ravenmoon]

Hey guys...don't worry, Silvermoon still had all Horde NPCs with Horde leaders in it yesterday and it's still here today.

Considering MMO champion makes up 0.1% of the actual playerbase, I'd say that these ridiculous demands are not likely to even reach the ears of the main reception staff at blizzard HQ, let alone the story team.

You are only just realising this now? I have told you several times, they don't read this stuff, and my motive for posting is not to try and persuade blizzard - I'm not running campaigns for high elves or any other thing, I'm merely sharing my thoughts. The difference between you and I is that you seem to feel compelled to challenge everything I say because you are trying to persuade phantom devs, not realising they don't listen or come here, and this is not why i do this.

You and your detractors are the reason i post so much and have to constantly repeat myself, because you keep arguing against my opinion or desire, and at some point I realised you were waging some sort of media/info campaign - who else would dare to try and control how someone else thought or what they desired.

You should NEVER have taken what i said so seriously , even if I was spot on 100% correct. But for you , it seems you were fighting for the very survival or right ot exist of the blood elves against evil Ravenmoon completely missing the point of all of this.

This is probably why you got upset, and offended, and were very aggressive. I'm probably much older than you at wow posting, I've been here form 2005, I stopped posting for devs nearly a decade ago. I do this to share my thoughts.

you're not to take them as some sort of actual threat. I'm a dude that feels elf kind should be with it's own kind, night elves should have night elven sub race with them and their history with them - that's it. Alliance has high elves, they should have that culture, and horde should have different ones.

it really is simple and it's not a big deal. My way is the original way, but it isn't the only way, and certainly isn't the the only way that has a right to exist, it's just hte way that keeps the original heart of Warcraft, that's it - and this argument was made to restore and preserve that, as well as the surest way to repopulate the alliance.

It's an opinion and point, for a person who doesn't play anymore and wouldn't care if it was implemented or not. You think I am super high elf biased, yet I have loadsa blood elves, won't change them to void elves, though i have void elves and i don't change them to high elf skin tones - doesn't mean I hate blood elves and are biased for high elves nor does it mean i don't think high elves should be playable.

I do, even though I would likely not play them. If the blood elves lost their high elven kingdom and characteristics, I wouldn't stop playing them, at most it would do is draw me back to level some toons as high elves now, and I'd be more eager than ever for my blood elves to have something new.

My desires were and are exactly that. They are the things I'd like to see happen that I'd enjoy, but my motivation and reasoning were not desire driven. The reason for taking this approach is not because i want to play high elves, but because the alliance and the game would seriously benefit from such a move, and so would the horde, especially if they got all the improvements I was suggesting.

if you noticed my long proposals, they included improvements for both factions, everyone improved. You should never have felt threatened by them, NEVER, you were never in danger of blizzard listening, and even if they reached exactly the same conclusions and implemented something very similar to what i said, or indeed listened to me, the blood elves in the end would actually be in a better position with that direction than they are now. And all it would have cost was end game status of alliance being in Silvermoon (horde would have had access anyway via Chromie,

Nothing happens, you win, something happens - we both win. Even if you didn't like it, you should never have gotten so triggered by it.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

You only think that because you don't like the suggestions, but I am not heavily biased against the horde at all. I'm not even biased against the horde elf section.

But you are so convinced you understand what I am, you haven't even considered it properly.

You literally want to remove one aspect of the Horde that has been a part of them since 2006 -tho the point the horde has existed for longer with BE on it rather than not- and you claim your premise isn't based at all?

That elven identity in the blood elves and Nightborne is alliance. It's too alliance, it it is left on the horde, you have the horde remaining with alliance on it (is that really the best thing for Warcraft? Alliance on the horde too?).

Again, How does that even make sense? I have asked you to make an argument about it, yet you continue to present it as an intrinsic fact.

This is what you want in this game, and what it needs, the alliance is about all the things the high elf kingdom and the night elven civilization represent, the humans and dwarves too - that type of civilization, type of ideals, nobility, arcane magic, way of thinking etc, these are the hallmarks of what the alliance is built upon.

And just no; to try to enforce a dichotomy based on you own subjective opinion of what alliance themes and ideals are is both absurd and pointless, and would only serve to dumb down the setting by removing any ideological agency within the universe.

It's not the only way, it has never been, but it is going to be the most effective way and the fastest, and can be the greatest way if done properly.

For sure the fastest, but also the dumbest, and it compeltely alienate BE players that for your own comfort.

And again, stop repeating your whole diatribe, you are not making your point any clearer, just repeating the same thing over and over again without even addressing the obvious issues your proposal entails.


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So much this. I am not agreeing that Blood elves and Nightborne should lose their identity, but people are so hyped about these races that they shamelessly defend them and insult the Alliance over them because they feel like master races. I can confirm I have been the receiver of repeated RP attacks by Nightborne players in my threads in the forums, calling me ''lowborn scum, you do not deserve anything, be grateful for what you got, you are the lesser race, etc''. These remarks have made me feel horrible for choosing to play a Void elf. I feel insulted as a player because automatically this renders me a second class player of WoW because of the race I play. They just call themselves Highborn and RP in the forums. It's ridiculous and disgusting tbh.

Again, I do not desire for Nightborne and Blood elves to lose their identities. But for crying out loud Blizzard stop giving us LESSER stuff all the fuckin time!! You burnt Shaladrassil and made Night elves homeless!! You gave us Void elves instead of High elves so everyone could just talk about how fugly our tentacles were all the darn time, and an assy lore for the Void elves to pair it up with. Things are still looking very bleak for the Alliance.

But that's the issue, I think we can all agree that there are valid reasons for elves on the alliance to get more of a spotlight and live to their potential; but to use that as as a excuse to ask for blood elves and nightborne to loose what Ravenmoon declares "alliance themes" is completely objectionable.

Because that's what Ravenmoon wants. Sure there's an issue about elves on the alliance feeling like lesser versions than the Horde counbterparts, but again, and I can't stress enough, and can't believe I have to, to continually push the idea that BE and NE should loose their elven identity is just a horrible solution.

[ravenmoon]

Look @MyWholeLifeIsThuner, my vision for wow, isn't really mine, it's just the original - which I now happen to find more rare and unique today, than the trends of the day.

nothing wrong with the blood elves, being very human like, which is very alliance like and being on the horde, afterall, the federation and Klingons were allies in TNG - everyone however is doing it, and when you do it in wow, it really becomes a story of just humans and friends.. on the horde it's point eared humans and friends, and on the alliance also humans and friends - whiles this is acceptable, I think Warcraft has more to offer when the horde was more original , and didn't have the alliance in it through the blood elves.

But ofc this isn't the only motivation, the alliance will be very excited if the whole high elf fantasy returns to it, and the night elf fantasy, it's fully scope is fully realised on it - again as it is right now, players can experience the breadth of the night elven race - you get the long vigil via the alliance and the kaldorei empire/civilization by the horde, there isn't anything wrong with this - just know that like this it is what it is, it's more alliance stuff on the horde and it's fusing them.. it might be okay, but it's less interesting, feels less distinguished and more samey, there is also the added crippling effect of the alliance looking worse for the things that it's about, because the blood elves and Nightborne have the civilization while the high elves and night elves are refugees.

You could counter that the fix for that is simply give the night elves and high elves decent stuff too, even better than the blood elves/Nightborne currently have - with no need to take away from the blood elves and Nightborne.

You'd be correct again, however, whiles that would lessen the lure to the horde (so to speak) that the current BElves/NBorne are to alliance layers, it still still doesn't solve homogeny and a host of those issues, which yes you can live with, but then you must ask yourself the question is holding on to high elvenness so important for the horde? That we must give up the faction distinctiveness, move close to homogeny and lose the heart ...all to keep Silvermoon with the blood elves and prevent the high elves and the kaldorei from getting their civilizations on the alliance?

once you realise that the horde keeping Silvermoon/Quel'thalas and Suramar and the blood elves behaving like high elves and Nightborne like kaldorei Highborne/civilization types is actually not that important for the horde and rather detrimental to the faction theme, you will unanimously reach the conclusion I have.. ditch it It's not important, the blood elves were given to the horde when less was at stake than now is, the difference is back then, the devs were far more paranoid about the effect it would have and if the high elves could go tot eh horde, they can return to the alliance