Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[ravenmoon]

@Rhlor It is true, us lore/immersion fanatics are a much smaller minority, but we are the ones that that drive the community /and game. like it's engine.

When we get excited, it spreads. most people don't really care about lore and the narrative etc, but if they put out something really cool, we are the first to get super excited, and our excitement catches on to our less involved friends.

Also, there are people, like my ex, who do follow and like the lore, but they're low key, they never post, and they'll take any change that comes, whether it was blood elves going horde, or if the high elves return in style like I've been harping on about etc, and won't stop playing. They won't get massively upset if the blood elves in Silvermoon return to being high elves and bring it with them - if they were in favour of the status quo, however, if it was something they like, they'd get really excited about it.


I've spent a lot of time watching fans, and I don't stick to any bubble. I play both factions, I have quite a number of friends who play Warcraft, and use to, in diverse realms, prefer different levels of engagement, some just play classic, and I talk to them, I am constantly asking their opinion, seeing how they feel, measuring the temperature.


it's different here, than it is on reddit than it is on the official forums - and discord is a whole different ball game..




Gamers will go where the dps goes, but if you mess that one up it can hurt you irreparably.. you can make mistakes with the lore and the movement of NPC characters, even with what race joins what faction, because such things don't affect gameplay, but you have to be much more careful.


If you favour the alliance gameplay wise, you are no longer enticing /luring people to switch, they'll feel you're manipulating them, that you are forcing them to switch factions and pay up... this is far worse than the anger from lore changes which can change and easily subside. You have competitve play and sports involved, and you risk a backlash that might end up demanding racials get removed, which would be a loss.




The reason I don't suggest the racial route is because of this. A small alliance boost/edge won't change anything much (the original classic proved this mostly), a significant one would, but would ruin the gameplay balance,


So @Rhlor yes, it would work, but the potential cost /price to pay from the havoc would be too much, it's not a good route tot ake. Imo.
Also, there are people, like my ex, who do follow and like the lore, but they're low key, they never post, and they'll take any change that comes, whether it was blood elves going horde, or if the high elves return in style like I've been harping on about etc, and won't stop playing. They won't get massively upset if the blood elves in Silvermoon return to being high elves and bring it with them - if they were in favour of the status quo, however, if it was something they like, they'd get really excited about it.


I've spent a lot of time watching fans, and I don't stick to any bubble. I play both factions, i have quite a number of friends who play warcraft, and use to, in diverse realms, prefer different levels of engagement, some just play classic, and I talk to them, I am constantly asking their opinion, seeing how they feel, measuring the temperature.


it's different here, than it is on reddit than it is on the official forums - and discord is a whole different ball game..




Gamers will go where the dps goes, but if you mess that one up it can hurt you irreparably.. you can make mistakes with the lore and the movement of NPC characters, even with what race joins what faction, because such things don't affect gameplay, but you have to be much more careful.


If you favour the alliance gameplay wise, you are no longer enticing /luring people to switch, they'll feel you're manipulating them, that you are forcing them to switch factions and pay up... this is far worse than the anger from lore changes which can change and easily subside. You have competitve play and sports involved, and you risk a backlash that might end up demanding racials get removed, which would be a loss.




The reason I don't suggest the racial route is because of this. A small alliance boost/edge won't change anything much (the original classic proved this mostly), a significant one would, but would ruin the gameplay balance,


So yes, it would work, but the potential cost /price to pay from the havoc would be too much, it's not a good route tot ake. Imo.

[Rhlor]

@Rhlor It is true, us lore/immersion fanatics are a much smaller minority, but we are the ones that that drive the community /and game. like it's engine.

When we get excited, it spreads. most people don't really care about lore and the narrative etc, but if they put out something really cool, we are the first to get super excited, and our excitement catches on to our less involved friends.

I repeat, if the goal is for the alliance to be popular and many people want to play an alliance, what you have to do is give the alliance better racials. most people play where there are better statistics

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Also, there are people, like my ex, who do follow and like the lore, but they're low key, they never post, and they'll take any change that comes, whether it was blood elves going horde, or if the high elves return in style like I've been harping on about etc, and won't stop playing. They won't get massively upset if the blood elves in Silvermoon return to being high elves and bring it with them - if they were in favour of the status quo, however, if it was something they like, they'd get really excited about it.


I've spent a lot of time watching fans, and I don't stick to any bubble. I play both factions, I have quite a number of friends who play Warcraft, and use to, in diverse realms, prefer different levels of engagement, some just play classic, and I talk to them, I am constantly asking their opinion, seeing how they feel, measuring the temperature.


it's different here, than it is on reddit than it is on the official forums - and discord is a whole different ball game..




Gamers will go where the dps goes, but if you mess that one up it can hurt you irreparably.. you can make mistakes with the lore and the movement of NPC characters, even with what race joins what faction, because such things don't affect gameplay, but you have to be much more careful.


If you favour the alliance gameplay wise, you are no longer enticing /luring people to switch, they'll feel you're manipulating them, that you are forcing them to switch factions and pay up... this is far worse than the anger from lore changes which can change and easily subside. You have competitve play and sports involved, and you risk a backlash that might end up demanding racials get removed, which would be a loss.




The reason I don't suggest the racial route is because of this. A small alliance boost/edge won't change anything much (the original classic proved this mostly), a significant one would, but would ruin the gameplay balance,


So @Rhlor yes, it would work, but the potential cost /price to pay from the havoc would be too much, it's not a good route tot ake. Imo.
Also, there are people, like my ex, who do follow and like the lore, but they're low key, they never post, and they'll take any change that comes, whether it was blood elves going horde, or if the high elves return in style like I've been harping on about etc, and won't stop playing. They won't get massively upset if the blood elves in Silvermoon return to being high elves and bring it with them - if they were in favour of the status quo, however, if it was something they like, they'd get really excited about it.


I've spent a lot of time watching fans, and I don't stick to any bubble. I play both factions, i have quite a number of friends who play warcraft, and use to, in diverse realms, prefer different levels of engagement, some just play classic, and I talk to them, I am constantly asking their opinion, seeing how they feel, measuring the temperature.


it's different here, than it is on reddit than it is on the official forums - and discord is a whole different ball game..




Gamers will go where the dps goes, but if you mess that one up it can hurt you irreparably.. you can make mistakes with the lore and the movement of NPC characters, even with what race joins what faction, because such things don't affect gameplay, but you have to be much more careful.


If you favour the alliance gameplay wise, you are no longer enticing /luring people to switch, they'll feel you're manipulating them, that you are forcing them to switch factions and pay up... this is far worse than the anger from lore changes which can change and easily subside. You have competitve play and sports involved, and you risk a backlash that might end up demanding racials get removed, which would be a loss.




The reason I don't suggest the racial route is because of this. A small alliance boost/edge won't change anything much (the original classic proved this mostly), a significant one would, but would ruin the gameplay balance,


So yes, it would work, but the potential cost /price to pay from the havoc would be too much, it's not a good route tot ake. Imo.

give lvl 410 at the start of an alliance patch? 30% in war mode?

blizz already favored the alliance in gameplay. Here we are talking about making many people go to play the alliance to make the popular alliance the empirical truth tells us that most people will play where they have better statistics.
giving better races to the alliance and nerfing the racial troll causes a lot of people to play the alliance.

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Thank you!

And for sure, VE's would really benefit a lot by having more braided hairstyles; I think it would fit both a VE and a HE aesthetic -and the inbetween-

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Indeed, we have seen so much people being "well, I really don't like this covenant's aesthetics, but the DPS tho :/" And even when we are lore and immersion weebs, we gotta realize that most people care about optimization over lore and aesthetics.

I have never bought that it was just getting elves that made the Horde reign supreme in terms of popularity, it's really a mix of all factors including the ability to be paladins and the Horde's overall better endgame content racials.

So yeah, even while removing BE identity from the Horde would cause a shitstorm, I don't actually think it would affect popularity, cause the alliance's issues just go beyond not having appealing enough races or identity.

to increase the numbers of the alliance the only thing that can do is to give better races to the alliance. also nerfing the racial troll would help the horde lose many players.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

to increase the numbers of the alliance the only thing that can do is to give better races to the alliance. also nerfing the racial troll would help the horde lose many players.

TBH I do think the most effective way to make the alliance more popular would be to give it a ridiculous advantage, like a broken racial, and outright only balance it when population gets more balanced.

IMO the biggest issue is that the Horde got given an edge during BC onwards to rebalance, but they overcorrected and never really managed to restore the balance. I really don't think that taking anything away from the Horde would work because the animosity would be too much, too much backlash, but give the alliance a broken racial that could sway the PVE meta towards alliance in a meaningful way, but only temporarily, could actually work.

Cause you know a lot of cutting edge guilds would downright transfer for an advantage, and that could potentially sway a lot of people -just like the current covenant meta- but it would have to be something closely monitored.

[Eleann]

Just another night staying up late and scouting Tweeter to find devs and artists responsible for the creation and customization of Void Elves so I can pester them too about adding some hairstyles and haircolours to them. I am helplessly addicted to my desire for this type of customization on my Void elf. I try to distract myself, but the desire just will not wane. I wish there was some way to talk to them and tell them how important this small change would be for my sanity! Everyone is so annoyed at the lack of loot and Choreghast, but I think they forget to ask for improvements to the original things that brought them to the game, like their characters and the environment! How much longer do we need to wait? I got caught in this madness just a month and a half ago, and can only imagine the horrors the High elfers must have been through, getting the Void elves they never asked for..or getting skins but nothing done for the hair. They should pay equal attention to customization as to gameplay fixes in my opinion.

[ravenmoon]

TBH I do think the most effective way to make the alliance more popular would be to give it a ridiculous advantage, like a broken racial, and outright only balance it when population gets more balanced.

IMO the biggest issue is that the Horde got given an edge during BC onwards to rebalance, but they overcorrected and never really managed to restore the balance. I really don't think that taking anything away from the Horde would work because the animosity would be too much, too much backlash, but give the alliance a broken racial that could sway the PVE meta towards alliance in a meaningful way, but only temporarily, could actually work.

Cause you know a lot of cutting edge guilds would downright transfer for an advantage, and that could potentially sway a lot of people -just like the current covenant meta- but it would have to be something closely monitored.

@Rhlor Tbh, that's a band aid - that will cause more problems than fix, all to avoid taking high elf and night elf stuff from horde? Why is it so hard to consider this path? Want to make the alliance picked? Make it awesome, exciting, and dynamic. Best way to do that,? Let the elves shine on the alliance. And while you're at it, remove the alliance themed stuff on the horde - it makes the horde clearer and more distinct -that's how I'll do it.

And no, I don't hate the horde, and I'm not trying to punish horde elf fans, - and yes the game will still be playable if they didn't do any of that and just left things as is, but I feel it will appeal to a whole lot more if they re-orientated and honed in hard on their foundation

Today, Monsters, edge-lords, bad boys and anti-hero's are quite popular, the horde will hold it's own against the alliance without the noble high elf and kaldorei types. Sure high elf is popular, and people love that white knight, beautiful delicate looking city - but equally popular is your darker, edgier, cruel beauty, domineering beauty as well.

I think there is a lot of room for the original themes of the horde and alliance to be doubled down and expanded with the new additions since WC1-WoW classic if they go that route.

Start with a big show for the alliance so that catches the attention of the community, gets them excited and loving it, give the horde it's improvements but in the direction you now want to focus it. - this strategy will get the two factions even, the high elf return and night elf rise splashed out would initially draw peeps to the alliance, when the blood elf edgelord and anti hero development comes it will keep the horde competitive.

If you ask me, WoW does Edge Lord's better than White Knights. It hasn't done a cool good guy in ages - I am certain that when the blood elves are rid of their high elf past, they'd be very appealing to the gaming crowd. the void elves would be the alliance counterpart of the blood elves, , but for them it would be noble edgelord, or nobility with twist /streak - but the classic bad boy , anti hero and edglord would be owned by the blood elves

[Rhlor]

@Rhlor Tbh, that's a band aid - that will cause more problems than fix, all to avoid taking high elf and night elf stuff from horde? Why is it so hard to consider this path? Want to make the alliance picked? Make it awesome, exciting, and dynamic. Best way to do that,? Let the elves shine on the alliance. And while you're at it, remove the alliance themed stuff on the horde - it makes the horde clearer and more distinct -that's how I'll do it.

And no, I don't hate the horde, and I'm not trying to punish horde elf fans, - and yes the game will still be playable if they didn't do any of that and just left things as is, but I feel it will appeal to a whole lot more if they re-orientated and honed in hard on their foundation

Today, Monsters, edge-lords, bad boys and anti-hero's are quite popular, the horde will hold it's own against the alliance without the noble high elf and kaldorei types. Sure high elf is popular, and people love that white knight, beautiful delicate looking city - but equally popular is your darker, edgier, cruel beauty, domineering beauty as well.

I think there is a lot of room for the original themes of the horde and alliance to be doubled down and expanded with the new additions since WC1-WoW classic if they go that route.

Start with a big show for the alliance so that catches the attention of the community, gets them excited and loving it, give the horde it's improvements but in the direction you now want to focus it. - this strategy will get the two factions even, the high elf return and night elf rise splashed out would initially draw peeps to the alliance, when the blood elf edgelord and anti hero development comes it will keep the horde competitive.

If you ask me, WoW does Edge Lord's better than White Knights. It hasn't done a cool good guy in ages - I am certain that when the blood elves are rid of their high elf past, they'd be very appealing to the gaming crowd. the void elves would be the alliance counterpart of the blood elves, , but for them it would be noble edgelord, or nobility with twist /streak - but the classic bad boy , anti hero and edglord would be owned by the blood elves

People nowadays do not choose faction for aesthetics, they do it for the best statistics.

If what you are looking for is to increase the numbers of the alliance, you have to give the alliance better statistics than the horde.

[FossilFree]

They should have never nerfed the human racial. Factions were already imbalanced before, but that move sent it into overdrive.

[ravenmoon]

People nowadays do not choose faction for aesthetics, they do it for the best statistics.

If what you are looking for is to increase the numbers of the alliance, you have to give the alliance better statistics than the horde.

Not aesthetics, altho that doesn't matter really these days, the best model is available to both factions now..

the secret behind what people will choose, if all gaming factors like racials are equal, and you have a good variety of aesthetics both ways, - is image.

Perception, image, vibe - this is what people will choose on. if you make a faction engaging interesting, by how you present it talk it up, show it off, people will get into it, especially when you show them quite cool. But you need an identity for the faction in order to do this well

The alliance's identity is present in both factions, and the horde has the better showing of that identity on it than the alliance does.. it's hard to focus in, home in on what makes the alliance loved and desired so you can make it attractive when the horde has similar/the same thing and better.

even if you give the alliance better, they're still going to look too close until you remove the alliance identities in the horde or make them significantly less prominent.

Then you can package and sell the alliance as THIS, make it look good and attractive, and later you can double down on what you desire the horde to be.

it is very problematic for this sort of thing when both factions share themes. This is why i keep saying, it's not enough to to bolster the alliance elves, you have to remove the alliance features, assets etc that are present on the horde elves as well. And doing this doesn't mean the end of the horde at all, in fact it opens the door for some truly interesting and cool things, that are not alliance based to happen with blood elves and Nightborne down the line.
so while it might annoy and distress a few in the short term, it will make things much better.

[Eleann]

Hey peeps feel free to support my post on EU Forums '' Give Void Elves High Elf Customization '' where I am making a clear request to Blizzard to act upon their promise of giving attention to Allied Races in later patches, since 9.1 is one of those patches. There I request customizations for Void elves that can give us a more High elfy look, such as hairstyles, hair colours, tattoos and ear legnth. It is a very formal post.

[Ardenaso]

Hey peeps feel free to support my post on EU Forums '' Give Void Elves High Elf Customization '' where I am making a clear request to Blizzard to act upon their promise of giving attention to Allied Races in later patches, since 9.1 is one of those patches. There I request customizations for Void elves that can give us a more High elfy look, such as hairstyles, hair colours, tattoos and ear legnth. It is a very formal post.

isn't there already the High Elf Positivity Thread and the Customization of High Elves Megathread?

[Varodoc]

Since this is basically the Void Elves Megathread too, I must stress the need for more Void-based customization options as well.

Such as the option to be in the Entropic Embrace state 24/7 as well as skin tones closer to Alleria's Void form:



Astral hair:



And in general more customization options based around the theme of corruption (such as the third red eye on the forehead, that's very cool):



As Void elves are easily the most unique and special race in the game, there's so much you can do with them.

[Eleann]

As Void elves are easily the most unique and special race in the game, there's so much you can do with them.

I do love Alleria's proper dark Void form as well as the antithesis it makes with her maintaining her light hair colour. Adding Light hair colours such as white, blonde and pink and letting them show through this dark void form will be really amazing. I have also suggested in previous posts to add dark blue shiny highlights onto some of those colours, like on the blonde, that look similar to the Starcursed Voidseeker's wings, to give this corruption effect and an antithesis at the same time. I have also suggested getting different available tentacle colours as well, like light pink, black and white glowing tentacles.

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isn't there already the High Elf Positivity Thread and the Customization of High Elves Megathread?

I think those are on the EU Forums, but hopefully if we yell loud enough then they might add some customizations or at least answer some questions on that during Q&A

[FossilFree]

Astral hair:

That looks so cool! I want that for a hair color.

[Eleann]

That looks so cool! I want that for a hair color.

Omg you're right I just noticed! That looks majestic!! Eeeeek!

[Rhlor]

Not aesthetics, altho that doesn't matter really these days, the best model is available to both factions now..

the secret behind what people will choose, if all gaming factors like racials are equal, and you have a good variety of aesthetics both ways, - is image.

Perception, image, vibe - this is what people will choose on. if you make a faction engaging interesting, by how you present it talk it up, show it off, people will get into it, especially when you show them quite cool. But you need an identity for the faction in order to do this well

The alliance's identity is present in both factions, and the horde has the better showing of that identity on it than the alliance does.. it's hard to focus in, home in on what makes the alliance loved and desired so you can make it attractive when the horde has similar/the same thing and better.

even if you give the alliance better, they're still going to look too close until you remove the alliance identities in the horde or make them significantly less prominent.

Then you can package and sell the alliance as THIS, make it look good and attractive, and later you can double down on what you desire the horde to be.

it is very problematic for this sort of thing when both factions share themes. This is why i keep saying, it's not enough to to bolster the alliance elves, you have to remove the alliance features, assets etc that are present on the horde elves as well. And doing this doesn't mean the end of the horde at all, in fact it opens the door for some truly interesting and cool things, that are not alliance based to happen with blood elves and Nightborne down the line.
so while it might annoy and distress a few in the short term, it will make things much better.

people, choose the faction where they can have an advantage in the final content of the game.

[ravenmoon]

As Void elves are easily the most unique and special race in the game, there's so much you can do with them.

I really loved this concept..t he corruptions were innovative, the skin colours, especially where you can get purple hands and feet, the eye colour ones with the void eyes, .. it was brilliant. This is s what I imagine for void elf customisations.

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That looks so cool! I want that for a hair color.

It's cool, but I feel astral hair should go to the Night elves - you know - children of the stars et all - especially for Moon Priestesses, Highborne and Moonguard types, if they could add stars to it, then it would be cool..

For void elves, I would like hair like this..



It's basically the same cosmo star theme on the Starcursed void strider and also on the heritage armor chest void effect.. now if they had hair like that.. it would be soo cool.

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people, choose the faction where they can have an advantage in the final content of the game.

I think that's only a small percentage of players. But it depends on how much you skew things like racials. Personally I wouldn't fix faction imbalance this way, it's only a band aid fix, it doesn't solve the fundamental problems with the alliance.

The alliance has been second rate and the dull, uninteresting faction, that even the horde elves do better alliance than the alliance. This is the main problem with the alliance. there is no avoiding favouring the alliance and buffing it substantially in the narrative, in features etc.. and better racials can help, but you'd be wise not to rely solely on racials, gameplay is such a fine and delicate thing.

[Alanar]

It's cool, but I feel astral hair should go to the Night elves - .

It's actually a Nightborne thing which is already in game and very pressent in their culture.. you know.. arcane and whole that. same as Glowing finger tips etc, but I know you wont admit this.

[Rhlor]

I really loved this concept..t he corruptions were innovative, the skin colours, especially where you can get purple hands and feet, the eye colour ones with the void eyes, .. it was brilliant. This is s what I imagine for void elf customisations.

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It's cool, but I feel astral hair should go to the Night elves - you know - children of the stars et all - especially for Moon Priestesses, Highborne and Moonguard types, if they could add stars to it, then it would be cool..

For void elves, I would like hair like this..



It's basically the same cosmo star theme on the Starcursed void strider and also on the heritage armor chest void effect.. now if they had hair like that.. it would be soo cool.

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I think that's only a small percentage of players. But it depends on how much you skew things like racials. Personally I wouldn't fix faction imbalance this way, it's only a band aid fix, it doesn't solve the fundamental problems with the alliance.

The alliance has been second rate and the dull, uninteresting faction, that even the horde elves do better alliance than the alliance. This is the main problem with the alliance. there is no avoiding favouring the alliance and buffing it substantially in the narrative, in features etc.. and better racials can help, but you'd be wise not to rely solely on racials, gameplay is such a fine and delicate thing.

covenant is the proof of this. Most of the players choose the covenant not because they like it they choose it because of the statistics

[Tanaria]

covenant is the proof of this. Most of the players choose the covenant not because they like it they choose it because of the statistics

Can confirm.

My main is an Affliction Warlock and I'd have loved to have gone Venthyr (because my Warlock is a Blood Elf and -Kael'thas-), but Night Fae is better, statistically.

[Aldo Hawk]

The Horde doesn't need to lose anything for the Alliance to gain their High Elves.

????????????????

After years, YEARS, is this not obvious? It is not? Really?

I don't know if I have ever felt more disappointed with the WoW community about any other topic than this, seriously, it's absolutely unbelievable...

It's simply the lore added as gameplay, with no changes nor retcons, and these questions just keep arising after YEARS of public discussion with many people involved...