Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Eleann]

You know, it is kind of funny to me how this is still going even though barely a fraction of the original posters still regularly post on this megathread. It's like the Ship of Theseus.

That's because new people come up every day who want things added for their Void elves. The matter is still far from settled when we have been left with blue and purple hair, and several hairstyles with tentacles.

[ravenmoon]

That's because new people come up every day who want things added for their Void elves. The matter is still far from settled when we have been left with blue and purple hair, and several hairstyles with tentacles.

indeed, and people still actually want high elves.. don't see how hard it is to realise this..


whiles some are happy just to have the model (like myself) and a take on it they view interesting such as the void elves (like I am happy to have), it doesn't erase nor remove the relevance and importance people have for high elves. @DeicideUH like I said in my reply to Goldielocks above, high elves are a massive asset and a well loved faction, that despite 14 years of blood elves existing in their current capacity are still greatly desired alongside their humans. Whether people snub and snark at it being lotr copy (which i find hypocritical, because nearly everything in fantasy is, and most of wow is based on DnD copies which follow that line and not only that, it's what the majority love about wow - and why the majority like high elves - with wow already providing variations ins sub groups like void elves and alternate factions like blood elves - it is why many races have several factions - some factions represents versions of standard fantasy tropes done in a different way - which gives your product flavour that can appeal to more players

Afterall if you are doing a roleplaying game that has millions, you are better off with lot s of variations, 6 variations of elves, 10 variations of humans, 7 variations of trolls etc, but in all of this, peoples till like the original too. The original has its power and appeal and you'd be wasteful to ignore it. Seeing how high elf faction has been a core original of Warcraft, the second alliance core race - it would be very wasteful not to fully capitalise on them, especially at a time when enthusiastic for your narrative and lore is at an all time low, which is not a good thing btw. And your alliance faction is falling away. Sneaking high elves in through void elves is very wasteful.

But at this point, people are settling, because they fel, they've on other choice and it's better than nothing, - and it's a shame, introducing high elves could have been a huge buzz that could really draw people to warcraft again and to be engaged with the world and it's narrative, instead just stealth sneaking em in via void elves does you know good. For such a huge asset, that is one of the most popular fictional race concepts and a major attraction to warcraft, to bring in like this just kinda feels sloppy and wasteful, negligent like - like you can't see a prize right in front of your eyes because you've been too glued to the wrong conversations and missing the treasure right infront of you. Yes that happens, far more than you think - rich /successful people don't know everything and certainly don't get it right all the time, they can equally be mislead no matter how robust their system is (or rather they think it is because they're huge), and they can lose their billions or fade, not realising how, it happens lal the time.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

That's because new people come up every day who want things added for their Void elves. The matter is still far from settled when we have been left with blue and purple hair, and several hairstyles with tentacles.

Isn't there a Void Elf megathread too?

[Eleann]

Isn't there a Void Elf megathread too?

I think there is 1 megathread on the US Forums titled ''Void elves, High elves, and misc elves'' so it's a lot more generic than just limited to Void elves. On the EU forums I mostly get replies from Horde players who either absolutely despise '' High elfers'' and will not hide it, or people who are really into the Void theme and want dark, goth stuff. I'm in the middle, I like the voidy touch, but not all of my haircolors to be literally just blue and purple. I feel that it makes my char look very unnatural, a bit like she lacks life, which shouldn't be the case. It's also extremely boring to only be able to choose between blue and purple hair colors. If I opted for a mix of natural and void, I would go for ''astral white'' cause we can have glowing light silver hair with blue and purple stardust shine on them, and a void blonde where there can be two thick blue highlights shining on the hair, or the bottom half of the hair being dark blue shiny.

Most of the Horde players who comment think we are entitled little brats and that we should be the very last of the Allied Races to get any new customization.

Oh, what a right mess of my life Blizzard has managed to make. Making half assed jobs, and encouraging the hate of the Horde on our heads with those same half-assed jobs. Because now Hordies think we already got our stuff and deserve nothing more, despite that I am only asking for hair stuff and having repeatedly stated we got absolutely nothing new for the hair.

[shoc]

I think the Void Elves and the Nightborne should be faction swapped, with Void Elves in the Horde and Nightborne in the Alliance. That would be so much better, making Void Elves an Alliance allied race was a mistake from the beginning.

Nightborne makes much more sense as an Alliance ally, Tyrande turning her back is such a lame excuse for them turning to the Horde. They are the Highborne wizard elves we always wanted. Tyrande will accept Night Elf Mages, even the ones from Feralas, but the Nightborne are kill-on-sight? Makes no sense.

Void Elves make more much more sense as a Horde ally. They are literally carrying the Void and are all partially insane, those are cool evil qualities that make them a good fit for the Horde. If I could rewrite, Alleria would be in far less control of the Void and a Horde faction leader instead. The Void Elves could be much more sinister and straddling a dangerous line as members of the Horde. Meanwhile, they co-exist beside the Lightborne Draenei?? As if that makes ANY sense.

Plus we get the added benefit of finally ending the Alliance High Elf debate, the answer will be a strong and awesome NO.

[Eleann]

I think the Void Elves and the Nightborne should be faction swapped, with Void Elves in the Horde and Nightborne in the Alliance. That would be so much better, making Void Elves an Alliance allied race was a mistake from the beginning.

Nightborne makes much more sense as an Alliance ally, Tyrande turning her back is such a lame excuse for them turning to the Horde. They are the Highborne wizard elves we always wanted. Tyrande will accept Night Elf Mages, even the ones from Feralas, but the Nightborne are kill-on-sight? Makes no sense.

Void Elves make more much more sense as a Horde ally. They are literally carrying the Void and are all partially insane, those are cool evil qualities that make them a good fit for the Horde. If I could rewrite, Alleria would be in far less control of the Void and a Horde faction leader instead. The Void Elves could be much more sinister and straddling a dangerous line as members of the Horde. Meanwhile, they co-exist beside the Lightborne Draenei?? As if that makes ANY sense.

Plus we get the added benefit of finally ending the Alliance High Elf debate, the answer will be a strong and awesome NO.

You are in the Official High Elf Discussion Megathread. Void elves were given to the Alliance, along with Blood elf skins. Nobody ain't taking nothing back now. It took these peeps 14 YEARS to get their version of High elves on the Alliance. They explicitly WANTED them. They have won them over fair and square, with blood and sweat. Please kindly crawl back to whatever weird cave you've come from.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I think there is 1 megathread on the US Forums titled ''Void elves, High elves, and misc elves'' so it's a lot more generic than just limited to Void elves. On the EU forums I mostly get replies from Horde players who either absolutely despise '' High elfers'' and will not hide it, or people who are really into the Void theme and want dark, goth stuff. I'm in the middle, I like the voidy touch, but not all of my haircolors to be literally just blue and purple. I feel that it makes my char look very unnatural, a bit like she lacks life, which shouldn't be the case. It's also extremely boring to only be able to choose between blue and purple hair colors. If I opted for a mix of natural and void, I would go for ''astral white'' cause we can have glowing light silver hair with blue and purple stardust shine on them, and a void blonde where there can be two thick blue highlights shining on the hair, or the bottom half of the hair being dark blue shiny.

Most of the Horde players who comment think we are entitled little brats and that we should be the very last of the Allied Races to get any new customization.

Oh, what a right mess of my life Blizzard has managed to make. Making half assed jobs, and encouraging the hate of the Horde on our heads with those same half-assed jobs. Because now Hordies think we already got our stuff and deserve nothing more, despite that I am only asking for hair stuff and having repeatedly stated we got absolutely nothing new for the hair.

I think Varodoc, the local Alleria fanboy, started a Void Elf megathread here, too.

[Traveler Voltin]

I think the Void Elves and the Nightborne should be faction swapped, with Void Elves in the Horde and Nightborne in the Alliance. That would be so much better, making Void Elves an Alliance allied race was a mistake from the beginning.

Nightborne makes much more sense as an Alliance ally, Tyrande turning her back is such a lame excuse for them turning to the Horde. They are the Highborne wizard elves we always wanted. Tyrande will accept Night Elf Mages, even the ones from Feralas, but the Nightborne are kill-on-sight? Makes no sense.

Void Elves make more much more sense as a Horde ally. They are literally carrying the Void and are all partially insane, those are cool evil qualities that make them a good fit for the Horde. If I could rewrite, Alleria would be in far less control of the Void and a Horde faction leader instead. The Void Elves could be much more sinister and straddling a dangerous line as members of the Horde. Meanwhile, they co-exist beside the Lightborne Draenei?? As if that makes ANY sense.

Plus we get the added benefit of finally ending the Alliance High Elf debate, the answer will be a strong and awesome NO.

do you even read lore?

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I think the Void Elves and the Nightborne should be faction swapped, with Void Elves in the Horde and Nightborne in the Alliance. That would be so much better, making Void Elves an Alliance allied race was a mistake from the beginning.

Nightborne makes much more sense as an Alliance ally, Tyrande turning her back is such a lame excuse for them turning to the Horde. They are the Highborne wizard elves we always wanted. Tyrande will accept Night Elf Mages, even the ones from Feralas, but the Nightborne are kill-on-sight? Makes no sense.

Void Elves make more much more sense as a Horde ally. They are literally carrying the Void and are all partially insane, those are cool evil qualities that make them a good fit for the Horde. If I could rewrite, Alleria would be in far less control of the Void and a Horde faction leader instead. The Void Elves could be much more sinister and straddling a dangerous line as members of the Horde. Meanwhile, they co-exist beside the Lightborne Draenei?? As if that makes ANY sense.

Plus we get the added benefit of finally ending the Alliance High Elf debate, the answer will be a strong and awesome NO.

The Nightborne are inherently far more fitting for the Horde based on their shared relationship with the Blood Elves. They also have a history of struggle which better befits the Horde and similarly have remaining bad blood with Night Elven society. The Shen'Dralar made amends and lived in some contact with the outer world for some time and were eventually reluctantly accepted into Elven society, where they now teach Night Elves under Night Elven law. They share a culture and common history far more closely with the Night Elves than the Nightborne do, while the Nightborne have their own society which has adapted and altered significantly from what it used to be and has more in common with Blood Elven society that Night Elven society.

The Void Elves make sense as members of the Alliance because not everything in the Horde needs to be outcasts and the entire point is they're not "evil". The Void Elves being in relationship with Alleria means they have a close connection to an existing Alliance leader - there is no way on Azeroth that Alleria would turn to the Horde when she has traditionally only ever been a member of the Alliance, had closer loyalties to it than most Elves, and is married to Turalyon, who was functionally its leader during the latter days of the Second War.

Both make plenty of sense for their respective factions - Nightborne on the Alliance does not fit, nor do Void Elves on the Horde. Void Elves are distinctly themed after the Alliance and Nightborne distinctly themed for the Horde.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I am circling back at the thought that we won't bee seeing more AR expanded customization this expansion, but instead next one, related to whatever changes happen on Azeroth. With that being the reason why VE new skin tones came late into development, they were an idea being considered for after SL, but fast tracked to quell any controversy blue eyes on BE's alone would have caused.

Meaning, we could be having more expanded AR customization in a more lore relevant way -like say, delving more on the VE numbers and new members- if the next expansion has to set up a new status quo.

I think the Void Elves and the Nightborne should be faction swapped, with Void Elves in the Horde and Nightborne in the Alliance. That would be so much better, making Void Elves an Alliance allied race was a mistake from the beginning.

Nightborne makes much more sense as an Alliance ally, Tyrande turning her back is such a lame excuse for them turning to the Horde. They are the Highborne wizard elves we always wanted. Tyrande will accept Night Elf Mages, even the ones from Feralas, but the Nightborne are kill-on-sight? Makes no sense.

Void Elves make more much more sense as a Horde ally. They are literally carrying the Void and are all partially insane, those are cool evil qualities that make them a good fit for the Horde. If I could rewrite, Alleria would be in far less control of the Void and a Horde faction leader instead. The Void Elves could be much more sinister and straddling a dangerous line as members of the Horde. Meanwhile, they co-exist beside the Lightborne Draenei?? As if that makes ANY sense.

Plus we get the added benefit of finally ending the Alliance High Elf debate, the answer will be a strong and awesome NO.

That ship already sailed like 2 years ago. Might as well ask for BE's not to be added to the Horde.

Also my eyes roll over at "Alleria being a Horde Leader." Downright hilarious you think that makes more sense than Tyrande not respecting the Suramarians for her isolation or the VE's existing as a BE politically and ideologically dissdent party.

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The Nightborne are inherently far more fitting for the Horde based on their shared relationship with the Blood Elves. They also have a history of struggle which better befits the Horde and similarly have remaining bad blood with Night Elven society. The Shen'Dralar made amends and lived in some contact with the outer world for some time and were eventually reluctantly accepted into Elven society, where they now teach Night Elves under Night Elven law. They share a culture and common history far more closely with the Night Elves than the Nightborne do, while the Nightborne have their own society which has adapted and altered significantly from what it used to be and has more in common with Blood Elven society that Night Elven society.

The Void Elves make sense as members of the Alliance because not everything in the Horde needs to be outcasts and the entire point is they're not "evil". The Void Elves being in relationship with Alleria means they have a close connection to an existing Alliance leader - there is no way on Azeroth that Alleria would turn to the Horde when she has traditionally only ever been a member of the Alliance, had closer loyalties to it than most Elves, and is married to Turalyon, who was functionally its leader during the latter days of the Second War.

Both make plenty of sense for their respective factions - Nightborne on the Alliance does not fit, nor do Void Elves on the Horde. Void Elves are distinctly themed after the Alliance and Nightborne distinctly themed for the Horde.

Mostly agree tbh.

I do think Nightborne are the more obvious ones; at the end of the day, culturally and ideologically, they are far closer to the Blood Elves than the modern Night Elves, it's pretty obvious; kinda reductive ti say they should join the alliance because they look more like NE, when their kinship is far truer to BE's. They are both direct descendants of the Highborne, while the NE's are mostly common folk; they were already ideologically divergent thousands of years ago, and modern NE culture has moved even farther away from the empire days by leaning on their nature aspects.

That being said, I also can fully see why the Shren'dalar wanted to rejoin the NE's; their context is different from NB, clearly more atonement vibes with them, but I do wonder if they themselves would have wanted to join the NB if it had been an option. At the end of the day tho, while they are both highborne, their outlook has changed, not unlike HE and BE's in a way.

As far as VE's is concerned, I don't think that thematically they fit one faction over the other, with a different backstory, they could have been very easily an horde race; but that backstory is paramount, because it anchors the reasons for their existence on an alliance-leaning sentiment from Umbric's group, and seals it with Alleria, renown anti Horde Alliance Hero, coming to their rescue.

So indeed, Nightborne fit the Horde -specially BE's- more thematically speaking, while Void Elves fit the alliance because of their explicit alignments.

[Eleann]

I think Varodoc, the local Alleria fanboy, started a Void Elf megathread.

I found a thread titled The Void Elves Discussion Thread, started by Manariel. Not sure if that's the one, but it's only got 24 pages.

[FossilFree]

I kinda think this thread has morphed into the "all elves thread."

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I kinda think this thread has morphed into the "all elves thread."

The BE thread does seem more healthy, so IMO this might be more of an alliance focused thalassian thread maybe?

[FossilFree]

The BE thread does seem more healthy, so IMO this might be more of an alliance focused thalassian thread maybe?

Yea, I can see that. I guess this one just seems to stay up at the top all the time and the sister threads get pushed way down.

[Frenchvince]

Since playing WOW, I feel like there has always been high elf threads.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Yea, I can see that. I guess this one just seems to stay up at the top all the time and the sister threads get pushed way down.

Indeed, but at least the BE kinda survives more than the dedicated VE thread there was one time lol.

TBH since I do personally believe the most HE's will get will be through VE's, I'm personally on board with this thread being here to mostly talk about the thalassian exiles on the alliance in contrast to their horde mainstream; like yeah, they are all basically the same people, but their stories are linked to either Horde or Alliance so there's that.

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Lol exactly; I still remember the "Why is the alliance getting Night Elves instead of High elves?" conversations bhahaha

[Beloren]

do you even read lore?

He is righ, it would have at least been consistent this way.

But saying that, blizzard have a right to mix and match all they want, if they want to take elves from alliance and put them on the horde, it's their right to do that. Maybe they didn't want the alliance to be about high elves, humans and dwarves, and wanted the horde to have a bit of that.. it is they that created the original horde and alliance identities, so if they want to change that, it's up to them isn't it?

I'm sure they are aware some people like Raven really liked the older more simplistic divide, the classic trio, and while it is still a popular theme in the fantasy world, there is nothing wrong with what they've done. If they don't want to use high elves, it's their asset to do as they please whether it's a wasted opportunity or not in anyone's opinion.

Most people who play this game don't really care anymore - so i fail to see this massive impact high elves would have. The reason they don't care is over a decade of downplaying their lore and literally abusing it to the extent it doesn't matter.

If the game had continued the strong story driven fantasy evident in the strategy games, then these things would have a mattered to millions, but they only matter to a few thousand.. we don't even get a few thousand replies over them on the forums.

People just don't care, and it's going to take a much much better effort to really engage the crowd on the story. Currently it's just a side dish that makes the button mashing have some modicum of meaning, it is utterly shallow and not worth pining over for anything or than superficial reasons like you want my pale skin and blonde hair with my sexy figure to be on your faction. Face it, it's not about lore, it's not about who had who first, nor theme or any of those things, those are just dressing compared to wanting an avatar to porn over on your fave faction.

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Lol exactly; I still remember the "Why is the alliance getting Night Elves instead of High elves?" conversations bhahaha

Poor Night elves, even the alliance didn't want them. I think they only got popular because of the 2 years blood elves weren't available

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Poor Night elves, even the alliance didn't want them. I think they only got popular because of the 2 years blood elves weren't available

I mean a lot of people thought they were replacement high elves, and tbh, in a way they were, but also they were a type of elf that moved away from the more cookie cutter and Tolkien inspired WarII elves by focusing more on druidic traditions and war culture. And also BE's came forward as a new spin on the actual Warcraft High Elves by TFT.

But yeah, even with an expy through NE, and a reinvention with BE, it wasn't going to be easy to just phase out High Elves, specially when they didn't really go for their extinction; lo and behold, as far as of legion, Alliance aligned High Elves were still a presence. There was always a clamor for them, and blizzard never really did pull the trigger on them, and in fact, perpetuated their presence in the setting.

So yeh, we have been talking about High Elves since 2004 lol

[ravenmoon]

I mean a lot of people thought they were replacement high elves, and tbh, in a way they were, but also they were a type of elf that moved away from the more cookie cutter and Tolkien inspired WarII elves by focusing more on druidic traditions and war culture. And also BE's came forward as a new spin on the actual Warcraft High Elves by TFT.

But yeah, even with an expy through NE, and a reinvention with BE, it wasn't going to be easy to just phase out High Elves, specially when they didn't really go for their extinction; lo and behold, as far as of legion, Alliance aligned High Elves were still a presence. There was always a clamor for them, and blizzard never really did pull the trigger on them, and in fact, perpetuated their presence in the setting.

So yeh, we have been talking about High Elves since 2004 lol

Night elves were created to be dark elves with a forest elf half - to have the best of both the dark elf and forest elf typical fantasy. They were initially created as an epic faction, and were given both detailed forest elf and dark elf bits.

In WC3, you saw the forest elf bits first because that was the stage they were introduced in, but the manual for WC3, and the War of the Ancients trilogy that had already been commissioned before the game's release were already planning on releasing the story of the dark elf side.

Night elves were going to have a wide range of facets tot hem, the extensive pre-sundering and long vigil lore, with more than just druids and sentinels was what their package entailed. This was the plan well into classic anyway. Notice how in classic, night elves build a city for the first time in 10k years, we also see Highborne return, although they're in Dire Maul at this stage, but they're not an enemy faction after you beat Totheldrinn, you actually gain rep with them.

Several things happened in wow that altered the course of the night elves. With the absence of high elves, blizzard started playing them in the high elf substitute role.. but when blood elves went horde, night elves got stuck in that role, partly due to lack of development like most alliance races not human got, but also they were okay to have the night elves feed the high elf role/itch - but obviously this ruined them to many, because that more fierce forest elf hardcore side you saw from the sentinels and Tyrande wasn't shown at all ever again (till BFA) and the civilization pre-sundering side oft he night elves, was not showcased properly either in the cata remake when the Highborne rejoined, in fact it's not till Suramar and Legion that you see this done correctly, only to then keep Nightborne and further take them horde occluding the dark elf side of the night elves.

Yet for any who look it's still there. It's there in all the lore, it's clear to see where the Nightborne come form, and what race they are a sub-race of, and no matter how hard detractors try, no one looking at Nightborne will say they are a blood elf sub-race - and they have tried to make them off as one. You only need pay attention to the in game narrative and cinematics to know the story, and if you pick up War of the Ancients, that was written with the WC3 in mind, you will know that all you see in the elven 2/3rds of the broken isles is Night elf lore. It is actually a place that has all the aspects of both the Long vigil and pre-sundering cultures of the night elves.


My problem is that Night elves aren't high elves, and shouldn't have been portrayed so soley as that. Night elves have a unique concept even if it is a combination of dark elf, high elf, forest elf and demon elf - it's the diversity that makes them a faction large entity. Through these groups they have a wide assortment of character and behaviour. Their core may be benevolent, curious intelligent, with a base arcane affinity by their origin and a nature and arcane love, with nature reverence from Cenarius in their early days, but you have a more cocky arrogant type in the Highborne and arcane users as well as the more accomplished types, a fierce savage streak in the sentinel and demon hunter types, a n anti-hero twist in the demon hunter types - but you also have a commonality, all of these groups have people with an air of nobility and grace -look at Prince Farondis, Thalyssra, Illidan, Tyrande they all have the sort of benevolent goodness you find in Malfurion but they have other traits, especially Illidan, that seems such a bad boy, but if you read his story in WotA and Illidan, he's very much a hero, desperate to save his people.

They are also united by their night life, which brings an interesting spin on everything, it's a night world, with starlight and moonlight treasured the most, and an entire culture that centres around that. and it's a shame blizzard doesn't delve into this far more than anything else, because ultimately, this is the most unique aspect of the night elves - seeing the dark elf and forest elf elements are not original at all.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Played a bit more with the idea of ombre hair colors/fades. Mostly from a VE perspective, but would look nice on HE's as well -but yeah, if I had to choose, I'd go with natural hair colors personally :P