Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Alanar]

Just makes me wish that we got Void Krokul and Lightforged Elves instead.

The krokul were a way better option then void elf or lightforged combined imo. Idk about the appeal, but they were quite unique.

[Ardenaso]

Helfers just don't wanna play horde side because of mudhuts and green people. I know because I used to feel the exact same way when I played a belf in TBC and I discovered helves were a thing.

what's wrong with mudhuts? I think Alterac Humans who are allies with orcs, trolls, goblins, and ogres are good for an Allied Race to fulfill the Second War fantasy

[Varx]

what's wrong with mudhuts? I think Alterac Humans who are allies with orcs, trolls, goblins, and ogres are good for an Allied Race to fulfill the Second War fantasy

Nothing of cours, I'm way past that. Just pointing it out that a majority of helfers feel that way and claim it's not about the model.

And are as happy as can be now because velves have pale options.

[Alanar]

Nothing of cours, I'm way past that. Just pointing it out that a majority of helfers feel that way and claim it's not about the model.

And are as happy as can be now because velves have pale options.

That claim sounds like bs to me, it has always been about the model and it shows when pale options were needed appearently. Lets be honest here..

[Varx]

That claim sounds like bs to me, it has always been about the model and it shows when pale options were needed appearently. Lets be honest here..

Exactly, that's my argument. So many people in this thread rabble about how it's about ideology of helves that have been alliance since wc2 to the point that if a group of belves defected to the alliance they still wouldn't be happy.

But now that there are pale velves everything is magically okay. Really shows the BS.

Yet no matter how they spin it they'll be playing void elves while pure uncorrupted elves remain on horde.

[Rhlor]

Except almost nobody wants orcs to join the Alliance?

I'm also not sure if Turalyon would be so content in teaming up with orcs. He dedicated his life on Azeroth on defeating them and in next 5 minutes he returned back home, he become commander in a fight against orcs in Arathi. Them being lightbound does not mean he have to be friendly towards them. He was pretty hostile to Lady Liadrin in Arathi as well and she is paladin as well.

There is lot of possibilities with Lightbound, but the chances are they will serve as antagonist for both factions in some of next expansions.

There are many people who want humans in the horde and since the faction identity has already been destroyed so giving lightbound orcs to the alliance and humans to the horde would be logical.

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It's apples and oranges. In Arathi Turalyon was defending his friend's homeland from the Horde invasion. He has no special hatred for his enemies and it actually pained him to see those he was fond of so revenge-ridden during the Invasion of Draenor. Alleria on the other hand still hates orcs. And since Turalyon is her lapdog now he'll do whatever she says.

mistake turalyon is loyal to the light. if xera together yrell and exarch garrosh arrive in azeroth he still loyal to xera. remember that turalyon agreed with xera imprisoning alleria.

[shoc]

Lightbound Orcs should be added as customization options to enable Mag'har Orc Paladins. Just add a short quest about how the Orcs strong will allowed them to break free from Yrel's mind control and they are back in the fold, but still with the Light.

[Ardenaso]

There are many people who want humans in the horde and since the faction identity has already been destroyed so giving lightbound orcs to the alliance and humans to the horde would be logical.

I'm no longer agreeing with Lightbound Orc for Alliance since the Alliance already got the Horde's most popular race

[Rhlor]

Lightbound Orcs should be added as customization options to enable Mag'har Orc Paladins. Just add a short quest about how the Orcs strong will allowed them to break free from Yrel's mind control and they are back in the fold, but still with the Light.

most of the lightbound orc accepted of their own free will

I think the identity of the factions is dead! give orcs to the alliance and humans to the horde

[shoc]

most of the lightbound orc accepted of their own free will

I think the identity of the factions is dead! give orcs to the alliance and humans to the horde

I mean just because Blizzard fucked up and gave High Elves to the Alliance doesn't mean faction identity is dead. Silhouettes are still very important part of what makes the WoW experience.

[Rhlor]

I mean just because Blizzard fucked up and gave High Elves to the Alliance doesn't mean faction identity is dead. Silhouettes are still very important part of what makes the WoW experience.

a lot of people want to dissolve factions to be able to make end game content

[Alanar]

Exactly, that's my argument. So many people in this thread rabble about how it's about ideology of helves that have been alliance since wc2.

Yea I agree.
The part were it became even more clear is that the fans still weren't happy even when the blue eyes were added.
Even tho it was a complete fanservice thing, realisticly the race was already playable for 14+ years and I still believe that and it will always feel likea wasted slot on the character list (void elves) when Vrykul, Krokul or hell even Taunka excists.

But, with that said: inb4, Yes Highmountain, lf drenaei and Mag'har orc also have that problem of just being options for orcs, drenaei and tauren. The ony exception are the Nightborne, because they realy wanted to fill in the gap and show us the arcane era highborne elves. Sadly they failed at making the playable model unique enough.

[Mungho]

Lightbound Orcs should be added as customization options to enable Mag'har Orc Paladins. Just add a short quest about how the Orcs strong will allowed them to break free from Yrel's mind control and they are back in the fold, but still with the Light.

This is straying off topic, but I would love to play one of those.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

So what, turn a race neutral everytime an appropriate npc faction forms? F that.

Why is it every response of your based on a supposition or assumption of what others are saying instead of... what they are saying? You keep misrepresenting what other people are saying and arguing against that, do you need another person for your soliloquy?

I'm literally talking about it on a case by case basis, to see where it would fit. Void Elves are already a race, so you are not making Blood Elves "neutral" by making them share aesthetics.

Why limit it, then might as well make all races neutral if it's so inevitable. Then the faction divide is pointless if it doesn't have any real tangible distinction other than blue/red bad.

Why limit it? because my point it's literally about the gameplay being reflective of the lore to a better degree, not remove all restrictions/limits. Between the strawman and slippery slope arguments you keep making, it's super tiresome trying to engage in a proper discussion with you.

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The krokul were a way better option then void elf or lightforged combined imo. Idk about the appeal, but they were quite unique.

The saddest thing is that LFD could just have been a customization option for Draenei and considering that we ended up with blue eyes and regular skin on Void Elves, We really could have just ended Legion with Krokul and High Elves as AR and the same balance would have been maintained of low effort AR.

That takes us to the bit tho where most AR could have been just added customization options; if the AR system had been introduced knowing that a customization revamp was on the way, we could have gotten more interesting AR such as the mentioned Krokul, Taunka, Vrykul, Forest Troll, Mok'nathal and etc.

When most of the existent AR's can just be merged into customization of Core Races, it kinda shows a lack of planning, and makes AR's come off as a more rushed think than anything -I mean, you just gotta look at NB to see that-

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This is straying off topic, but I would love to play one of those.

TBH a "Tyranny of Light" sort of expansion would be a perfect opportunity for an AR revamp. Just redefining the role and importance of the light would allow for many possibilities -with Maghar Paladins being the biggest one- but also non "Light" powered paladins, such as Elune Paladins.

[FossilFree]

I'm literally talking about it on a case by case basis, to see where it would fit. Void Elves are already a race, so you are not making Blood Elves "neutral" by making them share aesthetics.

Neutrality has more nuance anyways. You always hear the antis calling the pros racists for wanting more options. But it's way more racist to assume that an entire race would move in lockstep and never deviate from some arbitrary faction line. That is basically saying they are all exactly the same and think exactly the same, can't get much more racist than that. That is how stereotypes are formed.

This is also a good reason to allow PVE mercenary mode. There will always be exceptions that go their own way.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Neutrality has more nuance anyways. You always hear the antis calling the pros racists for wanting more options. But it's way more racist to assume that an entire race would move in lockstep and never deviate from some arbitrary faction line. That is basically saying they are all exactly the same and think exactly the same, can't get much more racist than that. That is how stereotypes are formed.

This is also a good reason to allow PVE mercenary mode. There will always be exceptions that go their own way.

I agree on principle, but a big deal with Blood Elves is that they, ultimately, don't feel like a neutral race or faction; alongside High Elves and Void Elves, they really feel more like a people that has split in a major axis where culture and ideology continues to differ.

Honestly I could have seen it before Void Elves being introduced, with High Elves and Blood Elves still being ostensibly the same race so there was leeway. But with the introduction of Void Elves the ends of the spectrum have just gotten so far away the game itself presents them as two different races with an aesthetic overlap.

And I think that serves to in universe represent the idea of political differences quite well and with a lot of potential, but in terms of gameplay, I do think it makes us move past the idea of Blood Elves as a neutral race a la pandaren, like you can't undo that.

So in that way, it just feels more likely for the remaining alliance High Elves to align politically and culturally with the Void Elves and/or end up creating half elves with humans. And much like you can't technically play as a gilnean human, just a worgen, high elves would end up in that in between, with you maybe being able to play a high elf that accepts to use void *shrug*



I do support the idea of mercenary mode tho, but that's less of a choose your faction and more of a faction agnostic type of play in my mind; like you can go full independent, but as a mercenary, you will be seen as untrustworthy by both sides (PvP oriented) and only in for the money, or unconcerned by faction wars and only worried about major threats (PvE oriented)

So yeah, I like the idea of Mercenary Mode, but that feels different than the notion of racial groups *choosing* a faction a la pandaren, or the thalassian divide, or the kul tiran privateers. That's specifically about faction, Mercenary Mode IMO is faction agnostic; it literally disregards it.

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In Overall Terms of "Cross Faction" choice:

I can't say I think that making races neutral a la Pandaren is the way to go, because in some ways I feel that Void Elves and Nightborne show the potential of having that cross race flavor, but under an specific context, which could be applied to other races.

I say potential, because the issue with NB and VE at their launch, was that the overlap was way too limited, so it didn't work as a meaningful way of giving people a choice of picking sides, but the more recent advancements of Void Elves do expand the possibilities, and the same could be true for Nightborne*

AR serving to give the other faction a good cross faction option would be better than the current low effort AR's that could be folded into their core races.

*specifically for NB, they could inherit more Night Elf options including skin tones and hair styles and colors, but in such case I think it would be fair to give NE's the option for more NB looking ears and maybe the Idle stance, which would serve to give NB a more Highborne option overall; much in the same way, while VE's could get more natural hair colors to better match a HE fantasy, Blood Elves could also get some of those Hair styles and beards.

Meaning that overall, there could be more overlap of assets, to give a better taste of the other side, but not everything.

But then we have the possibility of more Neutral Races, more in line to how Pandaren work, the same racials and same options for both sides, and there are a lot of options for that like Vrykul, Yaungol, Ethereal, Eredar and Naga (Could also throw undead Night Elves in there because we still don't know what side Calia is on)

[Alanar]

R]
The saddest thing is that LFD could just have been a customization option for Draenei and considering that we ended up with blue eyes and regular skin on Void Elves, We really could have just ended Legion with Krokul and High Elves as AR and the same balance would have been maintained of low effort AR.

That takes us to the bit tho where most AR could have been just added customization options; if the AR system had been introduced knowing that a customization revamp was on the way, we could have gotten more interesting AR such as the mentioned Krokul, Taunka, Vrykul, Forest Troll, Mok'nathal and etc.

When most of the existent AR's can just be merged into customization of Core Races, it kinda shows a lack of planning, and makes AR's come off as a more rushed think than anything -I mean, you just gotta look at NB to see that-

Yea I literally said the same thing 2 posts ago and I agree.
I also had the 3 prime examples of Hm tauren, mag'har and lf drenaei that could have been just an extension to the tauren, orc or drenei costumization options.

I will always see it as a missed opportunity when races such as you mentioned excists, its a damn shame. Legion should have ended with: Valarjar Vrykul, Nightborne, krokul. you know the races we helped and had some story in Legion.

AR were a rush job and it showed, nightborne fer sure is the prime example, but I think void elves are also a perfect example, because they were a literal asspull.

We might have a different opinion on high elves, but my opinion will always be that they were already playable for 14 years and there was absolutely no need for void elves. But its better to let it rest since both factions have the option now and it was the only option because the crying of alliance was to much..

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Yea I literally said the same thing 2 posts ago and I agree.
I also had the 3 prime examples of Hm tauren, mag'har and lf drenaei that could have been just an extension to the tauren, orc or drenei costumization options.

I will always see it as a missed opportunity when races such as you mentioned excists, its a damn shame. Legion should have ended with: Valarjar Vrykul, Nightborne, krokul. you know the races we helped and had some story in Legion.

AR were a rush job and it showed, nightborne fer sure is the prime example, but I think void elves are also a perfect example, because they were a literal asspull.

For real, AR's could have been introduced in a far more meaningful state if they took the time; considering that the expanded customization would have been on the pipeline by then, overall it feels like poor planing.

Zandalari, Vulpera and Kul Tirans feel like what AR's should be, too distinct to be combined with their Core Race; and I would also throw in NB and VE, but mostly because of their potential of adding some cross faction flavor, but it was clear with them that they were a rush job.

We might have a different opinion on high elves, but my opinion will always be that they were already playable for 14 years and there was absolutely no need for void elves. But its better to let it rest since both factions have the option now and it was the only option because the crying of alliance was to much..

The core of the High Elf issue will always rest in the fact that they continued to exist on the Alliance as a defined persistent presence. If they had been "exterminated" as they allegedly were after the Third War, it really wouldn't be an issue.

But continuing to show them as an alliance presence through WoW's just further shined a light on the idea that not all races would have monolithic politics, and to be honest you can't blame High Elf fans for pointing out to that and asking the obvious question of "Why aren't they playable?"

I am not asking you to like High Elves as a playable concept, but it really feels that over 16 years later people struggle to understand *why* High Elves became such a hotly debated issue, and reduce the discussion to simply alliance whining, when it all comes from Blizzard's own refusal of keeping alliance high elves in the past, and continue to visibly use them as part of the present of the alliance. And the facts are that no other group existed on the same context; we have Ogres as the closest, but they never had the sort of continued presence on the Horde as High Elves did on the alliance, and neither were their a splinter of a cross faction group.

[Mungho]

For real, AR's could have been introduced in a far more meaningful state if they took the time; considering that the expanded customization would have been on the pipeline by then, overall it feels like poor planing.

Zandalari, Vulpera and Kul Tirans feel like what AR's should be, too distinct to be combined with their Core Race; and I would also throw in NB and VE, but mostly because of their potential of adding some cross faction flavor, but it was clear with them that they were a rush job.



The core of the High Elf issue will always rest in the fact that they continued to exist on the Alliance as a defined persistent presence. If they had been "exterminated" as they allegedly were after the Third War, it really wouldn't be an issue.

But continuing to show them as an alliance presence through WoW's just further shined a light on the idea that not all races would have monolithic politics, and to be honest you can't blame High Elf fans for pointing out to that and asking the obvious question of "Why aren't they playable?"

This is why I don't understand Blizzard's thinking. If you're going to put HE on the Horde(renamed BE), why suddenly say 'yeah, there are HE on Alliance' and dangle them enticingly at many opportunities? Of course people are going to ask: 'why can't we play as them?' Blizzard should have made it clear that all HE joined the Horde, but here we are. I wonder how the story would have been different.

[Varx]

This is why I don't understand Blizzard's thinking. If you're going to put HE on the Horde(renamed BE), why suddenly say 'yeah, there are HE on Alliance' and dangle them enticingly at many opportunities? Of course people are going to ask: 'why can't we play as them?' Blizzard should have made it clear that all HE joined the Horde, but here we are. I wonder how the story would have been different.

You see it as dangling in your face. I see it as the playable high elves are horde but for lore flavor there is an npc faction of the same race on the alliance side that is not meant to be playable. Simple as that it happens.

Just like how horde has my human pirates, alliance fought with grim totem, or the goblin rogue in SI 7. It happens, doesn't entitle players to that playable race to the opposite faction.