Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Varodoc]

Read it and then understand, that they are not High elves. They are Blood elves:
Their origins lie with a group of blood elves led by Magister Umbric who were exiled from Silvermoon City because of their research into the Void.

1) Good thing that I never cared about High elf identity, but about Void elf identity.

2) You'd be wrong anyway. Since you like sources so much, here's another source that proves how wrong you are:

When asked about this, Ion Hazzikostas stated that high elves are essentially already playable as the blood elves on the Horde and that the void elves are also another flavor of high elves that are playable on the Alliance.[99]

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/High_elf

You even have the cute little number "99" next to it that redirects you to the source, so have fun.

3) You love sources so much yet you can't even google "Wowpedia Shadows Rising" and see for yourself?

For point one, She is the first Void elf and She is not a Blood elf, She still a High elf:
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Alleria_Windrunner

Yeah because all Void elves are also High elves, so of course the first Void elf would be no different. Good job on your inadvertent concession, that wasn't bad.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

How is the leader of the Void elf a High Elf?. Simple....She understand them on the use of Void Magic, since she has always been tempted to use it.

High Elven Wayfarers = Not the playable ones, since we go with the Blood elf ones and do the main quest in Telogrus and learn how they turned into Void elf by accident.

By my understanding of what Blizzard put on that lore, make me understand how things TRULY are, and not trying to turn a new race into something they are NOT.

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For point one, She is the first Void elf and She is not a Blood elf, She still a High elf:
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Alleria_Windrunner

Void elf lore right here:
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Void_elf

Read it and then understand, that they are not High elves. They are Blood elves:
Their origins lie with a group of blood elves led by Magister Umbric who were exiled from Silvermoon City because of their research into the Void.

Dude, I'd advise against arguing with Varodoc on Elf lore. You've already demonstrated pretty spotty knowledge and, in the particular niche of Void Elves, Varodoc knows practically everything there is to know.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Is clear Varodoc doesnt know anything about it, to the point she insist on wrong lore points. Sorry, but Varodoc like the rest of the people here, just want to make an entire new race of Void Elves into High elves, just for the sake of creating a race that is not even playable.

Now if this thread was about giving Alliance "pure" High elves, that would be a completely new thing with a more original content for having Blonde hair, Blue eyes and pink skin on that character....having those features on a Void elf....not so wise.

Practically everyone with whom you've argued has produced a procession of increasingly-abundant evidence to the contrary to every statement you've made - or, rather, the only statement you've made - and you still continue to refuse to accept that you are wrong. We have repeatedly provided evidence and you have done nothing but simply backtracked and continued to use circular reasoning - "they're not x because they're x! Why? Because they're x, of course!"

[Varodoc]

1) You dont care about High elf identity, but you want so hard to make Void elves into High elves.

That's because Void elves also being High elves doesn't change any of the aspects of them that I love. It's like saying that Humans being Titan-forged somehow makes them worse. It's really not a big deal.

High elves were widely speculated to have been a playable race choice for World of Warcraft, though Caydiem mentioned in a Blizzard lore post why this never occurred - the total high elf population being incredibly low.[47] The Horde would receive their biological equivalent, the blood elves, around this time. More recently, Blizzard has acknowledged player interest in high elves as a "sub race" of sorts, along with Mag'har orcs, Dark Iron dwarves, and other minor races,[98] although high elves were not added in Battle for Azeroth as an Allied race. When asked about this, Ion Hazzikostas stated that high elves are essentially already playable as the blood elves on the Horde and that the void elves are also another flavor of high elves that are playable on the Alliance.

They ARE NOT HIGH ELVES. They are a little flavor of Blood elves in the Alliance.

What are you even talking about:

that the void elves are also another flavor of high elves that are playable on the Alliance.

How does someone read "Void elves are a flavor of High elves" and conclude that "Void elves are a flavor of Blood elves but not High elves"

3) It doesnt say anything about the points we are discussing right here: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Shadows_Rising

"The Horde is nothing!" With those infamous words, Sylvanas Windrunner betrayed and abandoned the Horde she vowed to serve. The Dark Lady and her forces now work in the shadows as both the Horde and Alliance race to uncover her next move, including her own sister, Alleria. Struggling to shoulder the crushing weight of leadership, King Anduin entrusts the void elf and High Exarch Turalyon to uncover Sylvanas's whereabouts.

Alleria = Void Elf = Blonde Hair, Azure Eyes, Fair Skin (like Alleria) = Void Elf Identity, Simple.

Believe what you want, it's irrelevant to me. I'll enjoy my beautiful Void elf toon with fair skin. Just know that you are indeed wrong, hence why Blizzard gave Void elves fair skin options, as I have been asking since 2017.

Mod Edit: Don't use giant fonts in this manner.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Every single person came here to me saying "I say they are High elves, trust me dude...." and not a single proof of their points. I post them what is written on these lore webpages and they go mad about it.

See any of the previous things I said during our extremely long argument earlier. I concocted numerous, long-winded arguments whilst you just kept linking to wiki pages which proved my point and your subjective analysis of one art piece.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

And no my friend, we already discussed those points you mention.

Yes. And practically everyone agreed against you. You are in a considerable minority. Everyone else, including people who know considerably more about the lore than you, are in a pretty clear sate of agreement as to what constitutes a Silvermoon Elf.

[elbleuet]

Doesn't it ever feel wrong that after years of basically whining you got a tack and a shoulder pat and there you are with your Horde race?

I'm fine with the Alliance having high, blood and void elves.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

And without proof. Just an angry discussion with people using caps and with their "trust me dude" attitude. If they agree with me or not, is not the reality of what Void elves are. Lore is.

Dude. That's what you're doing. You have been using all caps on numerous accounts and you've done little other than link to wiki pages and then saying "read the lore" whilst bringing up very little to support your arguments. You have literally nothing supporting you save your own assumption that you are right. You are essentially saying "your evidence is irrelevant, just look at the place where you got the evidence and you'll find out I'm actually right". Your sources are far and few between, everyone else is in contention of your opinion, and you are practically wrong on every account according to numerous excerpts which others have linked. You have even practically admitted to me already "you are right, your opinion is the same as Blizzard's, but you and Blizzard are wrong for being right, trust the "Lore Masters" whom I will not name".

[Ardenaso]

dios mio why are you so affected with players grooming their Void Elves into Alliance High Elves? just let them be

[delus]

I'm just glad they gave void elves normal skin tones rather than giving blood elves blue eyes and giving nothing in return. Now, since hair dyes are a thing, I believe we should campaign for a RGB wheel for hair color.

[Ardenaso]

Yeah, but it brings up the question whether Bandit Lords are meant to be paladins or if its just a gameplay/dev limitation. And it really is a coin toss unless confirmed one way or the other.

Sure, disillusioned paladins becoming brigands is a cool concept, but was that what was meant?

But again, my point is how a couple of class restrictions can add cultural flavor to the races, the "what does it mean culturally this role doesn't exist as such". Sure, it's also interesting that some races have analogous roles (Sunwalkers and Prelates to Paladins), but I can see the appeal of a gameplay constraint reflecting lore in an interesting way.

Both approaches work tbh, I just personally think that 1-2 class restrictions do add some interesting depth.

I was thinking of rogue-themed Paladins whereas they would learn from the Blood Knights who aren't following Liadrin to command the Light to obey their will instead of pleading on them; and the name would be either Enforcers or Bandit Lords

btw, is it okay to ask how much for a slight retexture request? I need someone to change Vereesa's tabard here to the Silver Covenant design

[Vaedan]

This is the reason, why i think people don't pay attention to the WoW lore and how wrong they are. All these elves are different from each other, with different culture and trails. High elves are not Blood elves and they are not void elves or Nightborne or Night elves.

If Blizzard is lazy and dont create a specific model for each of the allied races its up to them. But Void elves are not High elves and both of them are not Blood elves.

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What we need is "REAL" High elves, so people stop crying to change the Void Elves into something that they are not.

Here is the lore of Quel'dorei:
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/High_elf

Please, read and learn the difference.
---------------------

Do we need more and more pages on this Thread for you guys to understand the difference between a Void elf and a High Elf?

Are we going to make Orcs looks exactly like the Mag'har ones, just because people want to change their skin color to brown?....Or you now understand why this change would be wrong?

Do you understand that the Void elves are a completely different than a High elf?....One is Nature/Magic and the other is Void/Magic.

----------------------

High Elf = Pure elf, that came from Kalimdor to live in Quel'thalas. And lived from the Sunwell to feed their magic needs. The live both in the forest and cities. Highly related to Magic and Nature. Bow users and sword warriors in light armor. They served the alliance with priests, sorcerors and hunter/warriors. Still working with the Alliance.

Blood Elf = Corrupted elves, that started to feed on Fel magic to feed their thirst for magic, changing them in the process...making them more aggressive, giving them green eyes instead of blue, some facial features are more sharp and more aggressive looking. They now use forbidden magic like the Warlocks do. Powerful spell casters. They rejected the Alliance and joined the Horde.

Void Elf = Corrupted elves, that used Void Magic to feed their thirst for magic. This changed them even more than the Blood elf ones, making them purple, purple hair or black and making them more calm and cold minded. They have such a level of concentration, that it allows them to continue casting even when they are being hurt by the enemies. Powerful void spell casters (Shadow Priests and Warlocks), void hunters and dark warriors. Rejected their brethren Blood elves and lived secluded in the void. And joined the Alliance, thanks to Alleria Windrunner understanding of their use of the void. Now called traitors by the Blood elves.

I don't think applying themes and features from other universes is a good way to go. Wow lore is inspired by many sources, but in the end, it creates its own image of the setting. Also, as other said, you also misinterpret WoW elf races a bit.

High elves are not in fact pure elves. Night elves are. High elves are descendants of Highborne who abused Arcane magic of Well of Eternity. Their appearance changed greatly thanks to their exposure to the Sunwell once they founded Quel'thalas.

The level of Fel corruption blood elves were exposed was not that dramatic. Green eyes and darker skin tones are result of Fel Radiation from crystals found in Quel'thalas, but majority of population siphoned magic from vermins and critters, and even sentient beings in some cases. Only very few blood elves directly fed upon demonic magic and these elves were either Kael's felblood elves or illidari recruits. The main difference between quel'dorei and sin'dorei has always been political and philosophical.

Void elves did not started their practises of the Void out of thirst for magic. Their thirst has been sated by the Sunwell for years now. Their motivation was exploration of new source of magic, which is largely unknown and is full of potential. Umbrics notes says to do so to defend Quel'thalas from harm, not to harness these powers for selfish ends, so their motives are not entirely selfish. Eventually, Void elves turned out to be more freethinkers and visionaries, moving past established boundaries of their society. Unfortunately, their research was considered dangerous for Sunwell, so they were exiled. In their aestetics, they are more of "Space elf" then "dark elf" from the very beginning. Just look at their heritage armor.

I'd like to mention that none of wow elf races can be really considered Dark Elf as we know this archetype from other universes. For example, Drow are extremely cruel, sadistic, unforgiving and secluded race based on worship of straight out evil goddess, making them antagonists most of time. No playable race in WoW will meet this criteria. Even Forsaken were given some positive features.

I think it would be amazing if the high elves ended up all getting brown skin tones.. ithink that would be a unique take and a nice alternative development. Blood elves = peach, void elves = purple, high elves = brown

I'd personally prefer blood elves getting exclusively brown, tanned and black skin tones. It goes well with their Sun centered society and I can imagine their proximity to Sunwell can result in some luxuriously tanned skin tones? It makes them more exotic and interesting. I'd leave high elves with "vanilla" peach skin tones, because they are just that, vanilla elves, a fundation for other groups to expand upon.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I don't think applying themes and features from other universes is a good way to go. Wow lore is inspired by many sources, but in the end, it creates its own image of the setting. Also, as other said, you also misinterpret WoW elf races a bit.

High elves are not in fact pure elves. Night elves are. High elves are descendants of Highborne who abused Arcane magic of Well of Eternity. Their appearance changed greatly thanks to their exposure to the Sunwell once they founded Quel'thalas.

The level of Fel corruption blood elves were exposed was not that dramatic. Green eyes and darker skin tones are result of Fel Radiation from crystals found in Quel'thalas, but majority of population siphoned magic from vermins and critters, and even sentient beings in some cases. Only very few blood elves directly fed upon demonic magic and these elves were either Kael's felblood elves or illidari recruits. The main difference between quel'dorei and sin'dorei has always been political and philosophical.

Void elves did not started their practises of the Void out of thirst for magic. Their thirst has been sated by the Sunwell for years now. Their motivation was exploration of new source of magic, which is largely unknown and is full of potential. Umbrics notes says to do so to defend Quel'thalas from harm, not to harness these powers for selfish ends, so their motives are not entirely selfish. Eventually, Void elves turned out to be more freethinkers and visionaries, moving past established boundaries of their society. Unfortunately, their research was considered dangerous for Sunwell, so they were exiled. In their aestetics, they are more of "Space elf" then "dark elf" from the very beginning. Just look at their heritage armor.

Aww, adorable. You're trying to use logic with this guy. The more you correct his takes by pointing out the glaringly obvious, the more he will continue to tell you to "read the lore" that you're presently talking about and using as a source.

I've pointed these all out before. He'll find an avenue. He always will.

[Vaedan]

From what i marked
1) Blood elves feed on Fel, all of them. If you ever done the starting zone in BC, Blood elves feed from the Fel crystals located everywhere in their settlements. The ones feeding on creatures, like in their starting zone, are just for emergency, since its not enough for them. All Blood elves have green eyes, according to the lore description, and this means they feed on Fel (https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blood_elf).

2) My mention, is related to the point that in Elder Scrolls, High elves are Altmer and live in the Summerset islands (i love those islands!). And the elves that left the island traveled around Tamriel and "evolved" according to the situation they found themselves into (Dunmer, Orsimer, Bosmer, Ayleid, Dwemer, Maormer, etc), some by curse other by the nature of the place they lived. High elves in WoW changed because of their lifestyle + Sunwell use. And they need to constantly feed on it (Maybe not everyday, but at least certain years, like its mentioned in that Sunwell quest (Quel'Dalar: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Sunwell) where you have High elves and Blood elves pilgrims visiting the Sunwell). The ES mention, was just an example.

3) Once again, the reason they are called Void elves, is because they "Live" feeding from the void, turning them purple and giving them a Preternatural Calm (https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Preternatural_Calm). They long time ago, used to be High elves (https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Void_elf), but not anymore. They became a new race with new features, just like the Blood elves did (https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blood_elf)

1) Incorrect. Not all blood elves fed upon Fel. Even during their darkest times, feeding upon Fel was not established largely among sin'dorei. Only most reckless elves who followed Kael and/or Illidan did so and it resulted in their transformation to either Felblood elves or Illidari demon hunters. Blood elves as a group practised mana draining from living beings, which was critised by other elves, who were later exiled by Lor'themar. These elves decided to not adopt blood elf way of life, so they kept the High elf name and chose to live either under Alliance protection, or established various lodges around northern Eastern Kingdoms. But that's it. They remained high elves because they did not want do things they considered unethical, not because they were not mutated by Fel. Most of blood elves were not affected by Fel either, they just had green eye glow. Now, few years later, this sign of fel corruption is being cleansed and blood elves now have blue, purple and gold eyes too.

2) ESO lore is irelevant to WoW lore. Tamriel has greatly different foundation, rules, basically everything. Azeroth is build on entirely different foundation, so you can't really compare the two and pretend they can have same features. They might have similar concepts, but that's it.

3) I don't know about any case in which Void elves feed upon Void. They study it, they harness it, they control it. If you actually spend some time in Telogrus and NPCs dialogues, Void elves initiates are thought to be vary of the Void and question its whispers, on the contrary of embracing it and becoming one with it. They see Void as a tool, or as a weapon. They want to explore Its potential, but rather in a scientific way. They do not worship it. Also, both Alleria and Umbric made it clear they wish Silvermoon to be part of the Alliance eventually, so there is a notion of some homesickness and similar sentiments among them. The thing is, we still don't have much material on Void elf society and their goals to the future. I guess that will be expanded in potential Void vs Light expansion

Aww, adorable. You're trying to use logic with this guy. The more you correct his takes by pointing out the glaringly obvious, the more he will continue to tell you to "read the lore" that you're presently talking about and using as a source.

I've pointed these all out before. He'll find an avenue. He always will.

Yes, I've already read the discussion and it seems my points will fall to deaf ears, but I couldn't help myself either

What I find amusing is that he is constantly accusing others of lack of lore knowledge, yet he alone brings in utterly fabricated, misinterpreted or straight out incorrect information (which are directly compromised by very wowiki articles he keeps linking).

But you know, I'm in the train now, more then 3 hours of journey ahead of me, so I got some time to spend on this discussion

[Vaedan]

You attitude of "Robert Edwin House" is kinda useless here. This is not Fallout, and you clearly lack the ability to make your points valid. You provide no source and just personal opinions to what you may believe is correct.

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1) Incorrect. "Blood elves who were most loyal to Kael'thas Sunstrider were gifted by Kil'jaeden with the privilege of engorging themselves on copious amounts of demonic blood, seemingly hastening their demonic evolution into what have come to be known as felblood elves, developing a variety of demonic traits in the process. Those blood elves and high elves who succumb to their magical addiction and descend into madness are counted among the Wretched." - from https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blood_elf. This mean the worst case of corruption happened to Kael'thas minions, but the Blood elves in Quel'thalas siphoned Fel crystals and then the Naru M'uru (https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blood_Knights), from where they got their holy powers.

2) ESO lore is an example. Not meant to be taken for WoW at 100%. I just used it for an example of Elves evolution. Elves migration in WoW caused similar effects.

3) "Void elves (or ren'dorei, "children of the Void" in Thalassian)[1] are a race of Void-infused elves affiliated with the Alliance." (https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Void_elf)

At that moment, the cube opened with an explosion, allowing Nether-Prince Durzaan — the corrupt ethereal who had stalked Alleria and made an attempt to claim the Sunwell — to surge into Telogrus. Durzaan immediately began a spell to capture and corrupt Umbric and his followers, binding them in an attempt to transform the elves into creatures of the void. Alleria, swearing to save her brothers and sisters, fought a brutal battle to free Umbric and slay the Nether-Prince. Displaying her fortitude, neither Durzaan's power nor his offers to share it were enough to sway Alleria's resolve, as she made clear to Umbric that the whispers are not to be trusted. Alleria succeeded in killing Durzaan, and while their minds and souls were still their own, the sin'dorei had been transformed by the ritual: now, having consumed the void as Alleria had, they had achieved new powers as well as a dangerous susceptibility to its whispers. Alleria immediately offered her aid, wanting to help her transformed kin understand and control their new forms and powers; and Umbric, apologizing for his arrogance, happily accepted. Since Umbric felt that Silvermoon had turned its back on him and his people long ago, Umbric and the void elves swore their allegiance to Alleria and the Alliance. Source: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Void_elf


Reminder: Read the Lore.

Add 1) How cute. You cherrypicked and misinterpreted the part of the text which suit you. Now, mind you, go the the first link you posted, go to the section Magical Addiction and read. There is specificaly said most blood elves did not drain demonic magic. See it for yourself. Learn.

Add 3) That alone looks more like artistic description of the even which occured. It also covers the only moment of a transformation of Umbrics group. It does not indicate Void elves are feeding upon the Void from that moment. We've never witnessed anything like that from that point and Void elves got fair amount of screen time with their Void shenanigans in BfA. Even in Telogrus, they just study the Void, channel it, but never consume it. Also listen to their voice lines.

Question everything.
Whispers do not control me.
Unchecked emotion leads to ruin.
My fate is my own.

They express their caution towards the Void, rather then happily embrasing it. As I said previously, ren'dorei have rather a "visionary" feel to them then a traditional Dark elf trope. They explore dangerous magic without prejudice and fear to show others that this power can be contained and used for greater good... Or at least they believe so.

Also, read the lore yourself. The links you post contradicts your claims.

[Vaedan]

Add 1) I didn't "cherrypicked" anything, the lore is there. I even post you the entire lore section. Also..."In his report on Silvermoon City, Mathias Shaw reported that blood elves were addicted to both, arcane and fel magic", source: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blo...ical_addiction. Please don't read just one part of the lore....

Add 3) Here is a picture of it (https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/scree...l/698921.jpg):


They are clearly siphoning Void in the Telogrus Rift.

Also from those lines you quoted: "Alleria has vowed to train these void elves to control the shadows within them and pledge their newfound powers to the Alliance.[4] Void elves constantly hear voices from the Void that seek to corrupt them, something they have learned to fight against and keep control over." - Sorce: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Void_elf.

Please, read the lore yourself. Provide sources for your claims and don't contradict the lore made by Blizzard that is posted on those wiki pages.

Add 1) Yes, you did. You tried to prove your point that all blood elves fed upon Fel, you picked a line from the article and constructed an interpretation which was suitable for your claim. Unfortunately for you, the article you posted provided information that undermines your statement.

Add 3) We can happily speculate what are these elves on the picture doing. They may just channel the energies from the rift to keep it stable in order to prevent Telogrus being consumed by uncontrolled Void rift. We do not know for sure. What we know is that no single Void elf past their transformation ever show interest to actually feed on the Void.

Also, the quote you posted is just proving that Void elves got their Essence fused with Void, which nobody contradicts. It only says that Alleria helps them to overcome this. There is no single word about Void elves or Alleria feeding upon Void past their transformation.

I read the lore well enough. You might as well, but still you need others to correct you. I'm sorry, but you are the only one constantly contradicting yourself.

[Kyriani]

Void elves are not High elves

The game director says they are though...

[Rhlor]

Blood elves and void elves are high elves. Customization is for this

[Valandale]

The person is either baiting or an Obelisk Kai wanna be. We reached a consensus in this thread hundreds of pages ago and they just came in to obstinately stir the hornet's nest. I don't see the point in trying to change someone's mind who clearly doesn't care and came into the thread about 3 years too late.

In any case, we're not going to hear much more on customization until the next expansion, with how delayed all of SL has been. Heck we haven't even gotten the rest of the Heritage Armors we were promised. RIP Draenei and Trolls

[Kyriani]

I really hope the next expansion's customization is more robust and comprehensive than the first.