Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Kyriani]

As far as I'm concerned, wanting more normal-looking options for Void Elves has nothing to do with "High Elf fantasy". I love imagining my toon as a Void Elf who is using shadow magic to conceal their true appearance, sadly the tentacle hair breaks my immersion.

But Yeah that has nothing to do with "High Elf fantasy". Alleria Windrunner leader of the Ren'dorei can conceal her true identity as a Void Elf, I've been saying this for years, so it's only fair that the Void Elf toon can do the same thing. Tentacle hair included.

That's an entirely fair perspective to have. Just because one uses the new skin tones doesn't necessarily mean they want their character to be a high elf. There's no reason a player can't embrace the void elf narrative even without choosing to have blue skin. More customization options give players more freedom to make their characters as they see fit. Some players however, take issue with void elves having these options because they feel it infringes on blood elf "uniqueness". I'm not one of those people. I'd prefer everyone just get the options they want to have and use them however they see fit.

[Varodoc]

That's an entirely fair perspective to have. Just because one uses the new skin tones doesn't necessarily mean they want their character to be a high elf. There's no reason a player can't embrace the void elf narrative even without choosing to have blue skin. More customization options give players more freedom to make their characters as they see fit. Some players however, take issue with void elves having these options because they feel it infringes on blood elf "uniqueness". I'm not one of those people. I'd prefer everyone just get the options they want to have and use them however they see fit.

The same people who think that Blizzard shouldn't spend so much time on the "High elf fantasy", that's why I said it's not just about "High elf fantasy", it's also "Void elf fantasy" and in line with what Alleria has shown as a Void Elf.

Which is why these options should have been available since 2017 frankly (year that the Void Elves were revealed).

[FlubberPuddy]

Snip

There most basic error, si making most non-native horde and alliance races fully invested in their factions.

Night elves, Draenei, Blood elves, Forsaken - are 4 major races that should not be involved with the factions. But rather have a small group that fight for them, while the rest of the race, continue in to influence the story. But what did blizzard do? they tied them all wholeheartedly into the factions - and that's just terrible. The night elves didn't even get an explanation, the Draenei shouldn't be so involved with the alliance, but rather the light and what it stands for. The blood elves had a good story that explained why they would partner with the horde, but after 2.4, they should have left it. game would have been much more interesting with a Draenei and blood elf friendship, despite them having factions with them batting for the alliance and horde.

In such a context, your high elf wishes would not have been problematic. it is because the horde must be different from the each other - and yet, by putting blood elves in the horde, they made the alliance and horde more like each other, yet continued to be so super restricted. And so you have a perfect example of lacking vision and understanding, despite being talented and creative.

Cut it down for size but I wholeheartedly thank you for your post-mortem on the High Elf debate and I very much agree with your take on how Blizzard could've better handled the races within the factions. I thought that was what they were going to do in BFA with the warfront stuff. I also would not have gone so hard in campaigning for High Elves if they had not mixed over NB to horde and VE to alliance - I had made peace in the past that High Elves were just gonna be NPCs back in Wrath. But they just had to swap em and also give literally the same exact model only airbrushed purple.

It's silly that instead they just move from one big baddie to the next when they could probably just have focused on Azeroth and its races/factions for decades of gaming content imo. I really like your suggestion on having a sect of certain races such as NE/Draenei only including a small portion within the greater factions but keeping their individual racial goals at heart. I would love to see Blizzard implement something to this effect in the future.

[Kyriani]

The same people who think that Blizzard shouldn't spend so much time on the "High elf fantasy", that's why I said it's not just about "High elf fantasy", it's also "Void elf fantasy" and in line with what Alleria has shown as a Void Elf.

Which is why these options should have been available since 2017 frankly (year that the Void Elves were revealed).

I agree wholeheartedly.

[FlubberPuddy]

That's very much part of my point, actually. The Void Elves offer no economic benefit to further development because they are already popular as is. Encouraging homogeneity will reduce the number of total race changes and boosts - consequently, there is less economic benefit.

I think I'm getting what you're saying - that it won't have as big as an effect because they are so popular already but the thing is this view would only make sense if Blizzard's main goal was to attract new blood (which I'm sure is one of their goals) but I think their bigger goal is to maintain the audience they already do have. I believe they understand that their focus should be on player retention than new blood because WoW isn't attracting as much new blood these days as before - so much so that it's typically considered a 'rare sight' to see someone completely new to the game playing that people typically comment 'bless your innocence' or something akin to a child being born lol.

Their focus on adding more customizations to the already popular races is less of an economic move than it is efficient use of resources as I was saying to another poster. I think the majority of their economic benefit comes from shop pets/mounts/level boosts/6 month promos rather than (and I am assume here) less-often used race/faction/server transfers.

[Ardenaso]

Because High Elves have been in the Alliance since WC2, while Alterac left the Horde at the end of the Second War and was destroyed, and its remnants started enslaving orcs?

not syndicate

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Are Alterasci even a thing? Once a nation is destroyed, what do you think happens ? The survivors get absorbed into other nations who also claim their territories for themselves

the Ravenholdt is still up and running and I want them to team up with the Blackthorn Bandits who helped Sylvanas and then the Fogsail Pirates to claim Alterac and use it as a blockade against the Alliance's advance from Stromgarde to northern Eastern Kingdoms

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Together with Wolf Spirit, we made Vereesa in Reforged



Perhaps Alleria on Entrophic Embrace could be made with the Avatar of Vengeance's textures? I'm not very good at freehand or texturing

[Varodoc]

Somehow I doubt that a bunch of thieves in a few derelict houses will pose a threat to the Alliance's advance in the old Lordaeron.

Anyway since we're talking about WC3 I didn't know that this was a thing, and it was made just a month after Void Elves were first revealed:

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads...-elves.301694/

And apparently there's also a custom game mode called "Survival Chaos" that also features a Void Elves race:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9rpjERP9eI

Honestly this is so beautiful, but I've always said that Reforged was a missed opportunity. If only they had gone through with their idea of changing/adding new storylines to match the WoW developments, they could have included Umbric and his followers in the Quel'Thalas missions.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

1198 pages of "I want blonde, blue eyed elves that look exactly like the blood elves, but they are available for the Alliance, just because i say so. Trust me Blizzard".

If you want Blonde elves go Horde. If you want Dark Elves, go Alliance.

The End.

What was the point tho? When you knew your pitiful comment wasn't going to end the discussion? Just an ego boost of you being that sole person with a sense of mind, shouting a truth the masses aren't willing to accept? Sorry, but you are bringing nothing new, just the same reductive dribble than so many others that have never bothered to even read about what is being discussed on the first place have spewed.

But to be so confident to be this arrogant about something that you simply don't know about, is almost aspirational.

You can 100% not care about High Elves, but let's not pretend your uninformed opinion holds any weight.

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now that High Elves are on the Alliance, I still don't know why Blizzard refuses to give Alteraci Human for the Horde

They do lack the visibility as members of the modern Horde High Elves have, but tbh I do think in terms of overall design balance it wouldn't be a bad choice, considering how Humans and Blood Elves are the Alliance and Horde's most popular races respectively.

The Syndicate has remained a neutral -if Hostile- entity through all of WoW, wouldn't be hard to believe they'd pick a side for survival's sake.

Personally I have always been of the idea of allowing more cross faction options, and giving the opposite faction a subsection of an opposition race (Such as High Elves for the Alliance and Alteraci Humans for the Horde) would be a good way to do so.

Now, given that High Elves are kinda rolled into Void Elves -like, halfway there- if Alteraci Humans were added, it would have to be as another AR... which would lead to then the need for another Alliance AR on the level of the Vulpera for a macro-level balance.

So there's still time for Sethrak!! I kid -kinda-, but Vrykul would also be a good choice.

[Ardenaso]

And apparently there's also a custom game mode called "Survival Chaos" that also features a Void Elves race:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9rpjERP9eI

Honestly this is so beautiful, but I've always said that Reforged was a missed opportunity. If only they had gone through with their idea of changing/adding new storylines to match the WoW developments, they could have included Umbric and his followers in the Quel'Thalas missions.

you should try Survival Chaos, I believe it has an AI support

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What was the point tho? When you knew your pitiful comment wasn't going to end the discussion? Just an ego boost of you being that sole person with a sense of mind, shouting a truth the masses aren't willing to accept? Sorry, but you are bringing nothing new, just the same reductive dribble than so many others that have never bothered to even read about what is being discussed on the first place have spewed.

But to be so confident to be this arrogant about something that you simply don't know about, is almost aspirational.

You can 100% not care about High Elves, but let's not pretend your uninformed opinion holds any weight.

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They do lack the visibility as members of the modern Horde High Elves have, but tbh I do think in terms of overall design balance it wouldn't be a bad choice, considering how Humans and Blood Elves are the Alliance and Horde's most popular races respectively.

The Syndicate has remained a neutral -if Hostile- entity through all of WoW, wouldn't be hard to believe they'd pick a side for survival's sake..

I was thinking not Syndicate but perhaps former Syndicate we helped in Classic like Ryson and then the Ravehodlt and then the Blackthorn Bandits who served Sylvanas long ago

also I was thinking perhaps this could be the way for High Elf Paladin and Human Paladin fantasy - blue eyed Blood Knight and Alteraci Human Paladin/Bandit Lord

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I was thinking not Syndicate but perhaps former Syndicate we helped in Classic like Ryson and then the Ravehodlt and then the Blackthorn Bandits who served Sylvanas long ago

also I was thinking perhaps this could be the way for High Elf Paladin and Human Paladin fantasy - blue eyed Blood Knight and Alteraci Human Paladin/Bandit Lord

Sure, they don't need to be actually the Syndicate, more so the point of humans of the area, who could have been Syndicate, Bandits and even ex Ravenholdt, banding together to reclaim Alterac as a Kingdom with Horde backing -I even think the Calia thing could come into play to forge an alliance between the two former allied Kingdoms- in contrast to the apparent Alliance indolence.

I don't think the High Elf Paladin Fantasy is thematically relevant nor interesting enough, but personally I would love a HE paladin not gonna lie. But yeah, as much as Void Elves are locked from Paladins -as of now- I would also lock Alteraci from having Paladins and offering another class instead that humans don't normally have. I do like the idea of cross faction racial choices, but while still having a unique flavor, but not solely removing something, but adding something else -That's why I'd like VE's got Shamans rather than Paladins-

Overall I do think one or two class restrictions per race serve an identity purpose, and contrasting a "mirror" AR with a class combo the Core doesn't have, bit giving it another, could do wonders for flavor.

[Kyriani]

Even though I find the concept of a paladin that draws its power from the void rather than the light intriguing, I'm fine with void elves never getting paladins. I would like void elves and nightborne to get the demon hunter class though. I also think lightforged should get the monk class.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

1199 pages of I want Blonde hair for my Void elf.

How dare you.

Some of us want white hair.

Will never not be amusing people coming out of nowhere thinking they can accurately summarize a discussion that's been going on since 2004 in one sentence. Because of course you are so wonderfully uniquely made and no one else thought of that before you came along!

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Even though I find the concept of a paladin that draws its power from the void rather than the light intriguing, I'm fine with void elves never getting paladins. I would like void elves and nightborne to get the demon hunter class though. I also think lightforged should get the monk class.

Yeah, personally I'm not hardlining any class restrictions -and I think that further expanding them could be made in very interesting ways Lore wise such as Void Paladins- but I do think that some do add a sense of flavor and identity as a reflection of cultural differences.

Okay but in the vein of void powered paladins, imagine we got light powered demon hunters tho. Draenei DH's!!!!

But yeah, I do think more races should be DH's overall.

[Swnem]

The thing about void elf paladins is that i envision them more like discipline priests with a white overlay on the abilities rather than full yellow effects.
It would look really cool and i would totally reroll mine.

This should not be limited to void elves as i would also like to see things like a fiery tint on the dark iron ones, a red one on blood elves, etc. Could make them all feel unique with minimal effort.

[Le Conceptuel]

I think I'm getting what you're saying - that it won't have as big as an effect because they are so popular already but the thing is this view would only make sense if Blizzard's main goal was to attract new blood (which I'm sure is one of their goals) but I think their bigger goal is to maintain the audience they already do have. I believe they understand that their focus should be on player retention than new blood because WoW isn't attracting as much new blood these days as before - so much so that it's typically considered a 'rare sight' to see someone completely new to the game playing that people typically comment 'bless your innocence' or something akin to a child being born lol.

Their focus on adding more customizations to the already popular races is less of an economic move than it is efficient use of resources as I was saying to another poster. I think the majority of their economic benefit comes from shop pets/mounts/level boosts/6 month promos rather than (and I am assume here) less-often used race/faction/server transfers.

Well, my primary focus was on race changes rather than new players, but yes. That is a fairly good point, but the issue is still that there is little need for player retention. Add to that regardless of new players, there is usually a large degree of fluctuation in terms of people who are leaving and then returning to the game, so the economic boon would be from attracting back old players, rather than just relying on retention. Even then, who would leave because of a lack of new customization options, much less to an already-popular model that doesn't require much improvement? This would likely have no effect on player retention.

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Even though I find the concept of a paladin that draws its power from the void rather than the light intriguing, I'm fine with void elves never getting paladins. I would like void elves and nightborne to get the demon hunter class though. I also think lightforged should get the monk class.

Why would Nightborne become Illidari? I could feasibly imagine some power-hungry Illidari joining the Void Elves, though.

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Somehow I doubt that a bunch of thieves in a few derelict houses will pose a threat to the Alliance's advance in the old Lordaeron.

Anyway since we're talking about WC3 I didn't know that this was a thing, and it was made just a month after Void Elves were first revealed:

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads...-elves.301694/

And apparently there's also a custom game mode called "Survival Chaos" that also features a Void Elves race:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9rpjERP9eI

Honestly this is so beautiful, but I've always said that Reforged was a missed opportunity. If only they had gone through with their idea of changing/adding new storylines to match the WoW developments, they could have included Umbric and his followers in the Quel'Thalas missions.

Why? What story benefit could that plausibly bring? He has minimal impact on the current plot, and furthermore Umbric wasn't even doing anything special at the time. He was just kind of there as a normal, everyday Magister at the time. In fact, if they really, really wanted to bring Void-y stuff into Warcraft III for some reason, why not just use Dar'Khan, since he is actually part of the lore at the time and was an important element who had a major role in helping bring down the shield around Quel'Thalas. Someone so instrumental surely deserves more of a role.

[Lastgope]

Yeah back in 2012 maybe.


That's literally what they have done anyway so Compare the new options humans got to the new options pandaren got, there's no comparison to be made.

Not 2012, closer to 2018 before the AH changes made sites like WoWcensus not workable

[Kyriani]

Why would Nightborne become Illidari? I could feasibly imagine some power-hungry Illidari joining the Void Elves, though.

There were nightborne npcs called felborne that used glaives back in Legion. Obviously the felborne weren't allies and there'd need to be some story elements added to explain any other races getting access to demon hunters, but I'd still like to see them get access to the class. Demon hunter is a popular class like paladin and druid, neither of which are available to nightborne or void elves. And if blizz wants to keep demon hunters an elf only class then at least void elves and nightborne fit the bill.

[Varodoc]

Why? What story benefit could that plausibly bring? He has minimal impact on the current plot, and furthermore Umbric wasn't even doing anything special at the time. He was just kind of there as a normal, everyday Magister at the time. In fact, if they really, really wanted to bring Void-y stuff into Warcraft III for some reason, why not just use Dar'Khan, since he is actually part of the lore at the time and was an important element who had a major role in helping bring down the shield around Quel'Thalas. Someone so instrumental surely deserves more of a role.

First of all people on this forum (which is infamously toxic and negative) have complained non-stop for years that Umbric and the Void Elves "suck" because they are an "asspull" (we'll ignore how the Gnomes also had no lore but a bunch of lines on WC2 manual before becoming playable in WoW), so introducing Umbric and his followers in WC3 would make them more ingrained in the overall story. Secondly I didn't say he had to play a major role, just that he could be featured, maybe as part of an optional mission. You could have an optional mission where Arthas has to destroy the base of Umbric and his scholars. Drathir is obviously not a Ren'dorei so including him would be stupid. We already know from WoW that Umbric found Telogrus Rift thanks to Drathir's books, he doesn't need to be featured in WC3 for that plot point to be established well.

This forum can never be pleased honestly, people complain for years that the Void Elves are an "asspull" (they aren't by the way) and then they don't want them to be included in WC3 to make them feel like less of an "asspull" (which they aren't).

[Le Conceptuel]

First of all people on this forum (which is infamously toxic and negative) have complained non-stop for years that Umbric and the Void Elves "suck" because they are an "asspull" (we'll ignore how the Gnomes also had no lore but a bunch of lines on WC2 manual before becoming playable in WoW), so introducing Umbric and his followers in WC3 would make them more ingrained in the overall story. Secondly I didn't say he had to play a major role, just that he could be featured, maybe as part of an optional mission. You could have an optional mission where Arthas has to destroy the base of Umbric and his scholars. Drathir is obviously not a Ren'dorei so including him would be stupid. We already know from WoW that Umbric found Telogrus Rift thanks to Drathir's books, he doesn't need to be featured in WC3 for that plot point to be established well.

This forum can never be pleased honestly, people complain for years that the Void Elves are an "asspull" (they aren't by the way) and then they don't want them to be included in WC3 to make them feel like less of an "asspull" (which they aren't).

How would retroactively adding them to Warcraft III retroactively make them not feel like an ass-pull, since the lore is entirely retroactive? Besides, I actually think the Void Elves are a good way of continuing the story of Elves in general - Elves are sort of parasitic by nature, and they tend to sort of go downhill when it comes to the powers they dabble in. The Blood Elves have backed off, the Void Elves have gone deeper.

And why would Arthas destroy the base of a bunch of Scholars who weren't even founded yet? Umbric only began his research after Quel'Thalas was destroyed, and given he seemed to be exiled pretty quickly, he probably only began around the time the Sunwell was rediscovered.

[Varodoc]

And in the end, you guys manage to make them give you normal skin color and blue eyes, that totally ruined the idea of the Void elves to be something new and original.

This is simply a false and disingenuous argument to make, since Alleria Windrunner first and leader of the Ren'dorei can retain her High elf form:



As a Void Elf fan, I couldn't be happier that they finally gave them fair skin options, I have been asking this since 2017. And not because I am a High elf fan, but because I am a VOID ELF FAN, and the leader of the Void Elves indeed can retain her fair form.

As I've been saying since 2017: Fair skin and Blue eyes have always been part of the Void Elf identity. Again, look at the Void Elf leader. This is an objective fact.

[shoc]

This is simply a false and disingenuous argument to make, since Alleria Windrunner first and leader of the Ren'dorei can retain her High elf form:



As a Void Elf fan, I couldn't be happier that they finally gave them fair skin options, I have been asking this since 2017. And not because I am a High elf fan, but because I am a VOID ELF FAN, and the leader of the Void Elves indeed can retain her fair form.

As I've been saying since 2017: Fair skin and Blue eyes have always been part of the Void Elf identity. Again, look at the Void Elf leader. This is an objective fact.

Alleria is not like a player Void Elf though. She is the host to the power of a void naaru, whereas the Void Elves are halfway through the process of becoming Void Ethereals. There is no lore reason for why the Void Elves should have fair skin, certainly not one based on Alleria, it only happened because of fan service.