Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Alanar]

This is simply a false and disingenuous argument to make, since Alleria Windrunner first and leader of the Ren'dorei can retain her High elf form:



As a Void Elf fan, I couldn't be happier that they finally gave them fair skin options, I have been asking this since 2017. And not because I am a High elf fan, but because I am a VOID ELF FAN, and the leader of the Void Elves indeed can retain her fair form.

As I've been saying since 2017: Fair skin and Blue eyes have always been part of the Void Elf identity. Again, look at the Void Elf leader. This is an objective fact.

You started as one and you were already asking for it at that time. You only adjusted that idea and name since alliance have void elves and Alleria went that way -.-

[Vaedan]

1) There is no point there that undermines my statement. The evidence of the Fel consumption is there. Please provide evidence of that claim you mention, since the lore is really clear about it.

Oh, my pleasure. Here you are. https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blood_elf

In that link, please go to the section Magical Addiction

"Even so, the prince's relatively quick acceptance of dire measures (e.g., draining magic from demons) is by no means characteristic of blood elves in general. The blood elves of Outland have by now discovered Kael'thas' agreement with Illidan, and they have for the most part become convinced of its necessity. Most blood elves still live on Azeroth, though. Few of these elves know of Kael'thas' pact with Illidan, and many would be horrified if they discovered it. Draining magic from small mana-bearing vermin is a far cry from draining magic from demons. Yet, as their hunger grows, blood elves—particularly those in Outland—are becoming increasingly inured to the things they must do in order to obtain more magic.[6]"

Bolded the important parts for you. This, my friend, contradicts your statement that all blood elves drained Fel. It is also the same link you used to prove your point. The difference is that you quoted the part that confirmed only that most zealous followers of Kael (those under influence of Kil'jaeden) indulged on Fel and that caused their ultimate corruption.

Sure, Silvermoon probably still bears scars of Fel usage. The whole city was rebuilded by fel magics, so that's what Mathias probably sense in the place. Blood elves are indeed way more tolerant of fel usage then most other races, but that does not mean all of them fed upon it. Lore states otherwise.

3) Since there is no lore on the Void elf wiki (https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Void_elf), other than what i mention on my previous post, the image is all that i found about this "symphoning" of Void energy. Like you said, they could be doing anything on that ritual....

"The void elves are not recruiting, necessarily, but they are open to those who share similar interests. Their research has attracted other elves to Telogrus, with both Silvermoon scholars and high elven wayfarers arriving to study the ways of the Void. They are trying to find out if they can reproduce the original process that transformed the void elves.". Source: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Void_elf.

What that last part says, is that the Void elves we use, are the ones that experience the incident that turned them into Void elves. Others are not able to convert themselves into Void elves. This means that those High Elves wayfarers are not turning into Void Elves and once again prove that Blood elves that turned into Void elves, are the ones we use.

While this is part of the little information we have regarding Void elves, it is nothing to support your claim that ren'dorei feed on the Void. It just says that they are researching a process to increase their numbers. Nothing in lore, both written or shown in game suggest that any of the current void elves have physical need or desire to feed upon void energies. We have seen elves being addicted on magic. Blood elves and Nightborne went throught that. We have not seen anything remotely similar in void elves and there is no mention of that either. While your theory is not the least possible, it's just that - a theory, not founded on the evidence we have. Sorry.

I know the lore well enough. I don't need others to correct me. Sorry, but the only ones constantly contradicting themselves are you guys. Since i started posting the lore, you now start to understand that Void elves are not High elves

Clearly, you don't. Your refusal lead to the point that no other posters take you seriously. You outright deny words of creators of the game, just because you don't like the direction where they lead the game. Sure, I'd also prefer proper High Elves originaly, but I didn't let denial hurt my enjoyment of the new race added to the game. Void elves were meant to be Alliance thalassian compromise. We can be happy that Blizzard acknowledged this experiment did not ended well and decided to make improvements to better please high elf fans. I still hope there is more coming, both on "traditional high elf" front and also on the "void elf" front.

I think you have some kind of need to compare void elves to more dark variants of elves from other settings, but what you fail to see is that void elves were not really meant to be the Dark Elf archetype as we know it. They actually lean way more towards space or even astral elves, regarding their racial aesthetics and besides using dark powers (which they use with a measure of caution and for greater good), they have nothing similar with general dark elf archetype.

Sadly, that is the only way to describe it, a hornet's nest. People demand what they like, they don't care what the "Lore Masters" wrote about the Void Elves, Blood Elves and High Elves. They just want to refurbish the Void Elves into High Elves. If Blizzard ever do this poorly demand into a reality, we are going to have the most poorly designed race in all of WoW.

People should have asked for High Elves instead...But they prefer changing the Void Elves and making them more broken. Good Luck on that.

High elves are never coming as a separate race. There is no need for that now. Both faction have their own version of high elves, with their own perspective flavors. That is the stance of creators of the game.

[Rhlor]

The devs says it, high elf are custom now

[Beloren]

I don't think applying themes and features from other universes is a good way to go. Wow lore is inspired by many sources, but in the end, it creates its own image of the setting. Also, as other said, you also misinterpret WoW elf races a bit.

High elves are not in fact pure elves. Night elves are. High elves are descendants of Highborne who abused Arcane magic of Well of Eternity. Their appearance changed greatly thanks to their exposure to the Sunwell once they founded Quel'thalas.

The level of Fel corruption blood elves were exposed was not that dramatic. Green eyes and darker skin tones are result of Fel Radiation from crystals found in Quel'thalas, but majority of population siphoned magic from vermins and critters, and even sentient beings in some cases. Only very few blood elves directly fed upon demonic magic and these elves were either Kael's felblood elves or illidari recruits. The main difference between quel'dorei and sin'dorei has always been political and philosophical.

Void elves did not started their practises of the Void out of thirst for magic. Their thirst has been sated by the Sunwell for years now. Their motivation was exploration of new source of magic, which is largely unknown and is full of potential. Umbrics notes says to do so to defend Quel'thalas from harm, not to harness these powers for selfish ends, so their motives are not entirely selfish. Eventually, Void elves turned out to be more freethinkers and visionaries, moving past established boundaries of their society. Unfortunately, their research was considered dangerous for Sunwell, so they were exiled. In their aestetics, they are more of "Space elf" then "dark elf" from the very beginning. Just look at their heritage armor.

I'd like to mention that none of wow elf races can be really considered Dark Elf as we know this archetype from other universes. For example, Drow are extremely cruel, sadistic, unforgiving and secluded race based on worship of straight out evil goddess, making them antagonists most of time. No playable race in WoW will meet this criteria. Even Forsaken were given some positive features.

Correct. It's nice to see someone understand this well

I'd personally prefer blood elves getting exclusively brown, tanned and black skin tones. It goes well with their Sun centered society and I can imagine their proximity to Sunwell can result in some luxuriously tanned skin tones? It makes them more exotic and interesting. I'd leave high elves with "vanilla" peach skin tones, because they are just that, vanilla elves, a fundation for other groups to expand upon.

Actually the dark skin tones probably make more sense for blood elves, because it is the blood elf side that a lot of changes happen or are the changed ones. I'm also fine with blood elves having a wider range of options than high elves.

[FlubberPuddy]

The person is either baiting or an Obelisk Kai wanna be. We reached a consensus in this thread hundreds of pages ago and they just came in to obstinately stir the hornet's nest. I don't see the point in trying to change someone's mind who clearly doesn't care and came into the thread about 3 years too late.

Truth lol. As much as an antagonist O.K. was to more customization, at least he tried to sound more logically convincing. Necro dude is simply talking past the people they're having a discussion with.

In any case, we're not going to hear much more on customization until the next expansion, with how delayed all of SL has been. Heck we haven't even gotten the rest of the Heritage Armors we were promised. RIP Draenei and Trolls

Yup for reals. It's a bit sad but waiting's the name of the game for more customizations it looks like.

[Varodoc]

Such a long and pointless debate for such a simple fact.

High Elves (Main Race):

- Void Elves (Subrace)
- Blood Elves (Subrace)
- Silver Covenant/Highvale High Elves, Pure Elves, Didn't-Eat-Demons Elves, Call-Them-Whatever-You-Want Elves (Subrace)

It's not rocket science, but people (Horde fanboys) simply can't accept the fact that the Blood elves don't have some kind of priority or primacy.

[Elyiandris]

Such a long and pointless debate for such a simple fact.

High Elves (Main Race):

- Void Elves (Subrace)
- Blood Elves (Subrace)
- Silver Covenant/Highvale High Elves, Pure Elves, Didn't-Eat-Demons Elves, Call-Them-Whatever-You-Want Elves (Subrace)

It's not rocket science, but people (Horde fanboys) simply can't accept the fact that the Blood elves don't have some kind of priority or primacy.

Nailed it. I'd also add san'layn, felblood and dark rangers as variants of high elves.

[Vaedan]

Such a long and pointless debate for such a simple fact.

High Elves (Main Race):

- Void Elves (Subrace)
- Blood Elves (Subrace)
- Silver Covenant/Highvale High Elves, Pure Elves, Didn't-Eat-Demons Elves, Call-Them-Whatever-You-Want Elves (Subrace)

It's not rocket science, but people (Horde fanboys) simply can't accept the fact that the Blood elves don't have some kind of priority or primacy.

Well, blood elves used to have that kind of priority or exclusivity, but considering background of the race, it's historical and thematical ties to the Alliance, fans requested Alliance thalassians for years. Blizzard decided to give these people what they want in a way least harmful for blood elves.

[scubi666stacy]

Such a long and pointless debate for such a simple fact.

High Elves (Main Race):

- Void Elves (Subrace)
- Blood Elves (Subrace)
- Silver Covenant/Highvale High Elves, Pure Elves, Didn't-Eat-Demons Elves, Call-Them-Whatever-You-Want Elves (Subrace)

It's not rocket science, but people (Horde fanboys) simply can't accept the fact that the Blood elves don't have some kind of priority or primacy.

Well regarding numbers its more like that:
Blood Elves - main race (and a core Horde race)
- Void Elves - subrace (and an Allied race for the Alliance / a modified option of the Blood Elf template)
- High Elves - subrace (and a customising option for the Blood Elf / Void Elf template)

You know, my BE mages have blue eyes now. Not because they are somehow inclined to join the Alliance, God help no. They are just once again saturated with the Arcane more than with Fel.

[Varodoc]

Well regarding numbers its more like that:
Blood Elves - main race (and a core Horde race)
- Void Elves - subrace (and an Allied race for the Alliance / a modified option of the Blood Elf template)
- High Elves - subrace (and a customising option for the Blood Elf / Void Elf template)

You know, my BE mages have blue eyes now. Not because they are somehow inclined to join the Alliance, God help no. They are just once again saturated with the Arcane more than with Fel.

Please explain how the Blood elves are somehow a "main race"? The fact that they hold Silvermoon doesn't mean anything. The Blood elves are just one of the groups that emerged after the Scourge ravaged Quel'Thalas, they are the largest and strongest (allegedly), but that doesn't make them the "progenitor race", in other words they too are a derivative of the original Quel'Dorei.

And I'm talking from a lore perspective, obviously for gameplay purposes they are considered a core race, but from a lore perspective they are clearly just another off-shoot of High elves. Which Ion also stated by the way.

[Kyriani]

Please explain how the Blood elves are somehow a "main race"? The fact that they hold Silvermoon doesn't mean anything. The Blood elves are just one of the groups that emerged after the Scourge ravaged Quel'Thalas, they are the largest and strongest (allegedly), but that doesn't make them the "progenitor race", in other words they too are a derivative of the original Quel'Dorei.

And I'm talking from a lore perspective, obviously for gameplay purposes they are considered a core race, but from a lore perspective they are clearly just another off-shoot of High elves. Which Ion also stated by the way.

Well to be fair from even a lore perspective, the Blood Elves are the bulk of the surviving original Quel'dorei aren't they? Those who stayed with the Alliance, Dalaran, or other non-affiliated holdings are in the minority I thought. So wouldn't that make them the "main" race of Thalassians?

But really, as a long lived race, the Blood Elves that survived Arthas's rampage, the High Elves who stayed with the Alliance or elsewhere, and even the Void Elves who are simply some of either group who got transformed (in the case of Umbric's group) or study the void (in the case of Alleria and possibly the newcomers to Telogrus) are still those same members of the "original Quel'dorei" are they not? Their circumstances and affiliations/politics may have changed, but aren't most of them still technically the same people (not counting new generations who were born after).

I'm not trying to argue really, just sharing my perspective. I personally feel that all the Thalassians have a claim on the legacy of the Quel'dorei, but all indications from Blizzard are that the Blood Elves are the majority as far as numbers go.

[Varodoc]

Well to be fair from even a lore perspective, the Blood Elves are the bulk of the surviving original Quel'dorei aren't they? Those who stayed with the Alliance, Dalaran, or other non-affiliated holdings are in the minority I thought. So wouldn't that make them the "main" race of Thalassians?

But really, as a long lived race, the Blood Elves that survived Arthas's rampage, the High Elves who stayed with the Alliance or elsewhere, and even the Void Elves who are simply some of either group who got transformed (in the case of Umbric's group) or study the void (in the case of Alleria and possibly the newcomers to Telogrus) are still those same members of the "original Quel'dorei" are they not? Their circumstances and affiliations/politics may have changed, but aren't most of them still technically the same people (not counting new generations who were born after).

I'm not trying to argue really, just sharing my perspective. I personally feel that all the Thalassians have a claim on the legacy of the Quel'dorei, but all indications from Blizzard are that the Blood Elves are the majority as far as numbers go.

Biologically they are all High elves, as in Thalassian elves. It's just that some are Void-infused, while others are Fel-infused, and so on. And that's why Ion said that both Void elves and Blood elves are indeed variations of the original "High elves". Just like the green orcs are still orcs, or the fel-infused eredar (man'ari) are still eredar.

But politically, the Blood elves will never be the "main" Thalassian faction, simply because their claim to Quel'Thalas is challenged by the Ren'dorei and the Silver Covenant. And this has been the case since forever, even before the rise of the Ren'dorei the Silver Covenant denied the Blood elves' rule on Silvermoon. Vereesa even told Theron that he had no right telling her what to do, and that Quel'Thalas was still her home too.

Regardless this debate has gone on for far too long, all that's missing now are additional customization options for Void elves, which will come in time.

[Kyriani]

Regardless this debate has gone on for far too long, all that's missing now are additional customization options for Void elves, which will come in time.

I hope so. I really want black as a hair color option so my character can look as she does in my avatar pic. I also would like to see other colors such as white, beige, dark brown and maybe even a dark brick red. I also think it would be cool if void elves got a tentacle toggle like the night elf hair vines and color options for the tentacle glow to match the various eye colors.

[Kyriani]

You may like whatever hair color, even orange or green...But they are VOID elves, they have a lore to back them up. The lore i have posted so many times. And the reason they dont have those hair colors, is because they....are....not.....High elves.

The Game Director says they are though...

And regardless of that, I can ask for whatever hair colors I want. Only the devs can say yes or no to them. And even if they say no I can keep asking until they say yes.

[FlubberPuddy]

But in resume, the Lore is there for a reason, it shapes the World of Warcraft with the rules of how the world and his characters behave and how they are. And that includes how they look...

Lore doesn't mean hair dye doesn't exist. Jeezus. It's hair colors we're asking for (you can even keep blonde idc) - black/white/brown/beige will suffice, any more is icing on the cake. You think some crazy lore change happened to give Night Elves autmun orange hair? Please provide lore proof if so.

We're not asking for instance the Man'ari to turn into 'good' draenei.

Customizations are simply player made requests. Especially hair color which has no lore bearing. Nightborne NPCs all had only strictly white hair, when they were made playable they were also given black/blonde hair color to PLAYER models ONLY. NPCs continue having only strictly white hair color as far as I've recalled.

[Ardenaso]

wait, all these magic and shit and people don't know how to dye their hair?

[Kyriani]

If all these dyes exist in the game...

https://www.wowhead.com/search?q=dye
https://www.wowhead.com/item=2324/bleach

What's to stop people on Azeroth from using it on their hair? Dyes exist in WoW. Bleach exists in WoW.

Again you're arguing at the wind. Only the devs can decide what hair colors I can and can't have, not you. If the devs decide to answer the request for a few natural hair colors for void elves, what then? Will you throw a fit over it?

[FlubberPuddy]

There is no such thing as hair dye in WoW, since the "Character Creation menu" gives you those colors as "Natural" for said race. Night elves autum orange hair is in the lore and many other art from the game.
The Night elf vines: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5a/b0...59dd372e83.png
Color (Appearance): https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Night_elf
Nightborne lore: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Nightborne_(playable)

Customization have never been from player request. And this has been one of the main complains from the community, since Blizzard doesnt do these changes lightly. They follow the lore and only provide features that fit the lore.

So your rebuttal is showing Night Elves without orange hair and linking to the wowpedia pages of NE and NB which doesn't show them having said extra hair colors that only the player models have aka no proof they aren't player requests.

Thanks for showing how inept your arguments are, that's all I needed.

[Rhlor]

Ion says blood elves and high elves are biological the same

[Kyriani]

It doesnt exist. Not even mention on lore in any place. Like i posted for the Night Elves and Nightborne. The colors are related to their lore.

Note: Its clear you guys dont quiet get it, but the "lore" is changed by Blizzard as we learn more about the races. Back then we only knew about the Night Elves from what we had in Warcraft 3. NOW....If Blizzard invent more new stuff, that is up to them....

Cocks aren't mentioned anywhere in the lore either but I'm fairly confident every humanoid male on azeroth has one. The fact that dyes and bleach exist in the game is all the evidence I need to prove that dyes and bleach do indeed exist on azeroth.

Also just for the sake of basic logic, how the hell do you think clothes end up different colors on azeroth? Here's a hint: dyes exist.