1. #24161
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Void Elves and Worgen are both non-viable as a race, since neither can reproduce naturally.
    You are assuming that.

    Is it actually confirmed anywhere? We don't know if void elf features and connection don't pass to offspring. In the same way, we don't know if the worhen curse does too. You are assuming they dont, but the real answer is we don't know.

    Unless theres some obscure lore i missed.

  2. #24162
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    That would be nice, but it flies in the face of what allied races were originally intended to be. In concept, allied races were supposed to be quick and easy to add races that required little upkeep after the initial investment. The formula is basically: race has either existed previously as NPC's (zandalari, kul tirans, dark iron, mag'har) or are a new race introduced in a new expansion (lightforged, nightborne, highmountain, vulpera, mechagnomes), race is featured in content, content culminates into race being unlockable as an allied race, little effort invested in a starting area (typically reused assets if they even get one at all), no new zones necessary to be made (usually). From that point forward the foundation for the allied race is laid and blizzard can decide if and when to feature members of that allied race doing things in the story going forward.

    That formula basically works for every allied race except for void elves. Void elves, insofar as the playable race goes, weren't featured in legion at all. They don't exist until after their unlock scenario and that presents a problem right there. While every other allied race from legion had screen time prior to being playable, void elves (the playable race), did not. So void elves had little to no foundation laid beyond Alleria's Argus arc, which if we're being honest, had little to nothing to do with Umbric, his followers, or their transformation. At the time of release void elves also could look nothing like Alleria making it a hard sell to call her Argus story arc the foundational first appearance of void elves. The new skin tone options sort of help in that regard, but even more than two years later we still don't know exactly how new void elves are coming into being.

    Void elves require additional lore to fill in certain (in some cases vital) gaps in what we know about them. No other allied race has questions about their sustainability. Even lightforged have their unlock scenario which basically takes you through the (repeatable) process by which they become uplifted. Umbric and his followers on the other hand, were transformed due to an accident during a ritual that was intended to transform them into void ethereals. I am hard pressed to believe that Umbric or Alleria would try to recreate such a thing when Alleria proves there is another, safer, way to gain mastery over the void. But blizzard has yet to tell us what exactly it is that new recruits go through to be come void elves.

    Heck, we still don't even know if the high elves and blood elves in Telogrus are actually becoming void elves, or if their just there to learn about the void. I mean, the implication that they are in fact the newer generation of void elves is there, but we have no in-game confirmation of this. Again the new skin tone options help here, but actual in-game lore is required (imo) to really lay a solid foundation for void elves going forward.

    Speaking of Telogrus, that was a new (albeit small) zone that blizzard had to create for void elves. They couldn't just reuse an existing zone like every other allied race. While that worked in favor of the void elves (I love Telogrus Rift), it also serves as an example of why an allied race needs to be thoughtfully planned out and featured in game before being unlockable (imo). What's really funny is, if Blizzard had simply gone with high elves instead of void elves, they would have had to do a lot less work (they could have started right in Stormwind) and the lore issues plaguing void elves would not exist.

    That's not to say I don't like void elves. I think they have the potential to be incredibly interesting. I like the concept of mastering the void and the void aesthetics like entropic embrace, tentacle hair options (though I'd prefer the tentacle be a toggle so all all hairstyles could have them or not per taste), and even the original skin tones on some characters, but lore-wise they really need more development so they fit into the world better.

    Even if blizzard just came right out and said those high elf wayfarers and blood elf scholars are becoming void elves through a process similar to Alleria's, that alone would settle key outstanding questions about void elves and how they will continue to survive going forward. It also wouldn't hurt if they told us why high elves are joining. It's easy to chalk up blood elves as being interested in any type of magic, regardless of danger (Umbric and company are a prime example of that), but avoiding questionable magical practices is kind of one of the primary reasons that high elves even exist on the alliance to begin with. Sure, blizzard could just tell us that post-legion or post-fourth war, some high elves want to be more proactive in helping the alliance, and joining Alleria is the way they have chosen to do so, but blizzard has to tell us that and not just leave it up to head canon.
    Well said. You have a good point that adding high elves could take less effort. They could easily use some high elf lodge, instanced Crystalsong forest, or have their hub integrated into SW same way Mag'har are housed in Orgrimmar. I also think distancing high elves from blood elves via different customizations would not be hard either, first 200 pages of this thread showed many good ideas. I wouldn't be even opposed to an idea of "Nozdormu" style high elves using night elf model.

    That said, I don't mind we got Void elves in the end. They have their own appeal and they certainly have their potential. The sad thing is we see almost no development, except seeing some ren'dorei doing void tricks during War campaign. Also, until now, we have only two notable Void elf characters, the rest are named NPCs/vendor at best and no name mobs at worst.

    What we really need to get on Void elf front:
    - general direction of the race/nation. What they stand for? What are their goals?
    - given their faction swap, how they integrated within the Alliance? Are they bitter towards the Horde? Do they symphatize with Alliance ideals? Right now, we only know Alleria's and Umbric's opinion on that matter.
    - how they interact with high elves which alligned themselves with the Alliance years ago? How they overcome the mistrust and prejudice high elves had towards blood elves?
    - more notable characters

    Other allied races have these points covered by the time they join their perspective factions.

    It also feels Blizz probably decided to get some feedback to decide what to do with Void elves. I personaly like idea of Void elves becoming kind of "Space" elves, delving into Astromancy and researching misterious powers of the cosmos. Their heritage would fit very well with that.

  3. #24163
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    You are assuming that.

    Is it actually confirmed anywhere? We don't know if void elf features and connection don't pass to offspring. In the same way, we don't know if the worhen curse does too. You are assuming they dont, but the real answer is we don't know.

    Unless theres some obscure lore i missed.
    Worgen dont make Worgen babies. they make human babies. Blizzard made some stupid reason that doesnt really make since.
    the report systems sucks and the mods are bias.

  4. #24164
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    You are assuming that.

    Is it actually confirmed anywhere? We don't know if void elf features and connection don't pass to offspring. In the same way, we don't know if the worhen curse does too. You are assuming they dont, but the real answer is we don't know.

    Unless theres some obscure lore i missed.
    Void elf children would be born batshit insane, since they have no willpower to keep the void at bay and all their features are directly linked to void corruption. In terms of worgen, Blizz specifically stated the worgen curse is not inherited.

  5. #24165
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Void elf children would be born batshit insane, since they have no willpower to keep the void at bay and all their features are directly linked to void corruption. In terms of worgen, Blizz specifically stated the worgen curse is not inherited.
    Void corruption might not be inherited as well then, so if worgen, whose biology was twisted in a extreme way give birth to uncorrupted children, we can't say Void elf babies would have to be born corrupted. We'll have to wait for a confirmation from Blizzard, if they ever decide to explain it.

  6. #24166
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Void corruption might not be inherited as well then, so if worgen, whose biology was twisted in a extreme way give birth to uncorrupted children, we can't say Void elf babies would have to be born corrupted. We'll have to wait for a confirmation from Blizzard, if they ever decide to explain it.
    Void is even more corruptive than fel energy and slight fel corruption can spread several generations

  7. #24167
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Void is even more corruptive than fel energy and slight fel corruption can spread several generations
    And yet fel corruption blood elves got is being cleansed now, only few years after they got corrupted.

    My point is, until we got confirmation from Blizzard, all we can do is speculate. Right now, we can't say Void elf babies would be 100% corrupted or 100% pure.

    I agree that if they would be born corrupted, they'd be insane right away, because resisting whispers require trained mind. I mean, it could be interesting twist to a race. Similar to the Forsaken, they would need to find other ways to procreate.

  8. #24168
    The corruptive nature of magics is debatable. The only thing I see differently with void is that you hear voices, possibly opening your perspective up to many possibilities. Light, however has been shown to lead individuals down a singular path leading to zealotry. Perhaps fel affects it's users in a similar way, being the opposite of arcane order, leading to them being chaotic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Asking the devs about void elf babies would be a good candidate for a lore call out.

  9. #24169
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    That would be nice, but it flies in the face of what allied races were originally intended to be. In concept, allied races were supposed to be quick and easy to add races that required little upkeep after the initial investment. The formula is basically: race has either existed previously as NPC's (zandalari, kul tirans, dark iron, mag'har) or are a new race introduced in a new expansion (lightforged, nightborne, highmountain, vulpera, mechagnomes), race is featured in content, content culminates into race being unlockable as an allied race, little effort invested in a starting area (typically reused assets if they even get one at all), no new zones necessary to be made (usually). From that point forward the foundation for the allied race is laid and blizzard can decide if and when to feature members of that allied race doing things in the story going forward.

    That formula basically works for every allied race except for void elves. Void elves, insofar as the playable race goes, weren't featured in legion at all. They don't exist until after their unlock scenario and that presents a problem right there. While every other allied race from legion had screen time prior to being playable, void elves (the playable race), did not. So void elves had little to no foundation laid beyond Alleria's Argus arc, which if we're being honest, had little to nothing to do with Umbric, his followers, or their transformation. At the time of release void elves also could look nothing like Alleria making it a hard sell to call her Argus story arc the foundational first appearance of void elves. The new skin tone options sort of help in that regard, but even more than two years later we still don't know exactly how new void elves are coming into being.

    Void elves require additional lore to fill in certain (in some cases vital) gaps in what we know about them. No other allied race has questions about their sustainability. Even lightforged have their unlock scenario which basically takes you through the (repeatable) process by which they become uplifted. Umbric and his followers on the other hand, were transformed due to an accident during a ritual that was intended to transform them into void ethereals. I am hard pressed to believe that Umbric or Alleria would try to recreate such a thing when Alleria proves there is another, safer, way to gain mastery over the void. But blizzard has yet to tell us what exactly it is that new recruits go through to be come void elves.

    Heck, we still don't even know if the high elves and blood elves in Telogrus are actually becoming void elves, or if their just there to learn about the void. I mean, the implication that they are in fact the newer generation of void elves is there, but we have no in-game confirmation of this. Again the new skin tone options help here, but actual in-game lore is required (imo) to really lay a solid foundation for void elves going forward.

    Speaking of Telogrus, that was a new (albeit small) zone that blizzard had to create for void elves. They couldn't just reuse an existing zone like every other allied race. While that worked in favor of the void elves (I love Telogrus Rift), it also serves as an example of why an allied race needs to be thoughtfully planned out and featured in game before being unlockable (imo). What's really funny is, if Blizzard had simply gone with high elves instead of void elves, they would have had to do a lot less work (they could have started right in Stormwind) and the lore issues plaguing void elves would not exist.

    That's not to say I don't like void elves. I think they have the potential to be incredibly interesting. I like the concept of mastering the void and the void aesthetics like entropic embrace, tentacle hair options (though I'd prefer the tentacle be a toggle so all all hairstyles could have them or not per taste), and even the original skin tones on some characters, but lore-wise they really need more development so they fit into the world better.

    Even if blizzard just came right out and said those high elf wayfarers and blood elf scholars are becoming void elves through a process similar to Alleria's, that alone would settle key outstanding questions about void elves and how they will continue to survive going forward. It also wouldn't hurt if they told us why high elves are joining. It's easy to chalk up blood elves as being interested in any type of magic, regardless of danger (Umbric and company are a prime example of that), but avoiding questionable magical practices is kind of one of the primary reasons that high elves even exist on the alliance to begin with. Sure, blizzard could just tell us that post-legion or post-fourth war, some high elves want to be more proactive in helping the alliance, and joining Alleria is the way they have chosen to do so, but blizzard has to tell us that and not just leave it up to head canon.
    All good points, especially the part about Void Elves not having a proper buildup like the other ARs did. If they had the kind of backstory and existing lore that Dark Irons did, I think they wouldn't feel so lacking.

  10. #24170
    Elemental Lord Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Well said. You have a good point that adding high elves could take less effort. They could easily use some high elf lodge, instanced Crystalsong forest, or have their hub integrated into SW same way Mag'har are housed in Orgrimmar. I also think distancing high elves from blood elves via different customizations would not be hard either, first 200 pages of this thread showed many good ideas. I wouldn't be even opposed to an idea of "Nozdormu" style high elves using night elf model.

    That said, I don't mind we got Void elves in the end. They have their own appeal and they certainly have their potential. The sad thing is we see almost no development, except seeing some ren'dorei doing void tricks during War campaign. Also, until now, we have only two notable Void elf characters, the rest are named NPCs/vendor at best and no name mobs at worst.

    What we really need to get on Void elf front:
    - general direction of the race/nation. What they stand for? What are their goals?
    - given their faction swap, how they integrated within the Alliance? Are they bitter towards the Horde? Do they symphatize with Alliance ideals? Right now, we only know Alleria's and Umbric's opinion on that matter.
    - how they interact with high elves which alligned themselves with the Alliance years ago? How they overcome the mistrust and prejudice high elves had towards blood elves?
    - more notable characters

    Other allied races have these points covered by the time they join their perspective factions.

    It also feels Blizz probably decided to get some feedback to decide what to do with Void elves. I personaly like idea of Void elves becoming kind of "Space" elves, delving into Astromancy and researching misterious powers of the cosmos. Their heritage would fit very well with that.
    Void Elves came into the game few expansions too early. They have no story right now because their story will happen in the future Light vs. Void expansion that might be as "soon" as 10.0, or later.

  11. #24171
    @Combatbulter and @Varadoc Fel corruption and void corruption are very different. the former is very physical invading inwards into your psyche, the other is very psychological from inwards to your physical exterior.

    it's equally probably void elf children would be born totally compromised, or 100% Thalassian only developing void acuity later.


    There is no way blizzard will condemn future generations of void elf children to madness unless they were destroying the void elf race, so for all intents and purposes, they'd likely be protected by their parents and either made even more capable of resisting the void while being more adept at it, since they've been dealing with it from an early age unlike their parents, or become more susceptible with it. Or blizzard could choose both, with it just depending on the family and individual.

    You both should know that previous lore is no obstacle and for all intents and purposes pretty much irrelevant for whatever they want to do. Even if it contradicts all previous lore, it won't stop them from making new developments, they'd either fix it with a lore development that changes the status quo/previous lore or outright retcon the old if it comes to that.

  12. #24172
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Void Elves came into the game few expansions too early. They have no story right now because their story will happen in the future Light vs. Void expansion that might be as "soon" as 10.0, or later.
    Not sure if I agree. We've already seen blood elves experimenting with the Void back in TBC. There are actually foundations for their build up. It's like saying you couldn't include Draenei until expansion where we face and defeat Legion.

  13. #24173
    Elemental Lord Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Not sure if I agree. We've already seen blood elves experimenting with the Void back in TBC. There are actually foundations for their build up. It's like saying you couldn't include Draenei until expansion where we face and defeat Legion.
    Well Draenei came in TBC and were somewhat relevant.
    Then they were completely forgotten untill Legion.

    So atleast they were relevant for their introductionary expansion. All void elves did for BFA was to open few portals, something any mage could do with arcane. Even the freeing of goddamn fully powered old god didn't make them relevant for BFA plot.

  14. #24174
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Well Draenei came in TBC and were somewhat relevant.
    Then they were completely forgotten untill Legion.

    So atleast they were relevant for their introductionary expansion. All void elves did for BFA was to open few portals, something any mage could do with arcane. Even the freeing of goddamn fully powered old god didn't make them relevant for BFA plot.
    Well, I assume Blizz had greater plans with BFA story, but rushed it probably due to poor reception. Void elves could easily be integrated into War campaign (their former Horde membership had potential to be explored, as well as Alleria/Umbrics desire for Silvermoon to rejoin Alliance), Nazjatar campaign (being elves, Nazjatar is indeed part of their legacy, plus we discover lot of Void influence here) and lastly in Old Gods plot, obviously. So, Void elves could have spotlight at any point during BfA (similar to Draenei in TBC), making the expansion perfect time for their addition, but as you said, they ended up opening Void portals and reanimating raptors. The problem still remains the same. It's not when they were introduced, it's how they were introduced and/or what development they got.
    Last edited by Vaedan; 2021-06-14 at 10:26 AM.

  15. #24175
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Well Draenei came in TBC and were somewhat relevant.
    Then they were completely forgotten untill Legion.

    So atleast they were relevant for their introductionary expansion. All void elves did for BFA was to open few portals, something any mage could do with arcane. Even the freeing of goddamn fully powered old god didn't make them relevant for BFA plot.
    They were the lesser light of woD, so forgotten till WoD, and featured again heavily in Legion

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Well, I assume Blizz had greater plans with BFA story, but rushed it probably due to poor reception. Void elves could easily be integrated into War campaign (their former Horde membership had potential to be explored, as well as Alleria/Umbrics desire for Silvermoon to rejoin Alliance), Nazjatar campaign (being elves, Nazjatar is indeed part of their legacy, plus we discover lot of Void influence here) and lastly in Old Gods plot, obviously. So, Void elves could have spotlight at any point during BfA (similar to Draenei in TBC), making the expansion perfect time for their addition, but as you said, they ended up opening Void portals and reanimating raptors. The problem still remains the same. It's not when they were introduced, it's how they were introduced and/or what development they got.
    Void elves weren't planned. They came about because they wanted to give the horde the fancy elves. It's clear htey wern'et well htought out, but they were a catchy choice to do.. and easy to make cool.

    they still have a lot of development, they are really far behind their counterparts for so popular a race. at least as void elves.. but if you're not divorcing htem from blood elves and high elves, they have all that lore behind them - with the void the latest development in an off tangent group.

    But isn't the case with all the elven groups? Nightborne are an ancient kaldorei group doing it's own thing independent of its origin people. Void leves are blood elves and high elves who've taken a new turn towards the void - neither of these groups (I mean nightborne and void elves) divorce themselves from their past.

    this is why many consider Nightborne as night elf civilization elves, and void elves as Thalassian elves - neither of these are divorced from their original identities. one actually continues entirely in it, while the other just opens up a new avenue of magic, which one side banishes them for -but they don't culturally divulge. Nor do the Nightborne or the Danrassinas.

    In fact the only group that culturally divulged from it's predecessors entirely were the high elves. That is why the Thalassian elf is a separate category of elf entirely to the night elf.. and why Nightborne isn't that way to night elf, nor void elf that way to blood or high elf.

    Void elf culture is entirely Thalassian, nightborne culture is entirely kaldorei.

  16. #24176
    Elemental Lord Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    They were the lesser light of woD, so forgotten till WoD, and featured again heavily in Legion
    WoD Draenei don't really even count. They're different people from the main Draenei. Most they could have given to us was a flashback into Draenei society before Orcs fucked them over, but even that was ruined by the Iron Horde messing things up.

  17. #24177
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    WoD Draenei don't really even count. They're different people from the main Draenei. Most they could have given to us was a flashback into Draenei society before Orcs fucked them over, but even that was ruined by the Iron Horde messing things up.
    It wasn’t our faction of Draenei but it was still Draenei. Draenei people, lore and culture.

    Same with the Iron Horde, not our orca but still orc lore, orc people and orc culture.

    So to me it counts.

  18. #24178
    They have the ability to make more worgen, so while worgen don't reproduce, there can always be worgen if people choose to become worgen for whatever reason, like the people who choose it in the SIlverpine quests.

    Void Elves to my understanding do not have a means to make new void elves yet, but it if they do find a way, then both groups are viable factions going forward, even if not normal 'races.'

  19. #24179
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    Void elves weren't planned. They came about because they wanted to give the horde the fancy elves. It's clear htey wern'et well htought out, but they were a catchy choice to do.. and easy to make cool.

    they still have a lot of development, they are really far behind their counterparts for so popular a race. at least as void elves.. but if you're not divorcing htem from blood elves and high elves, they have all that lore behind them - with the void the latest development in an off tangent group.

    But isn't the case with all the elven groups? Nightborne are an ancient kaldorei group doing it's own thing independent of its origin people. Void leves are blood elves and high elves who've taken a new turn towards the void - neither of these groups (I mean nightborne and void elves) divorce themselves from their past.

    this is why many consider Nightborne as night elf civilization elves, and void elves as Thalassian elves - neither of these are divorced from their original identities. one actually continues entirely in it, while the other just opens up a new avenue of magic, which one side banishes them for -but they don't culturally divulge. Nor do the Nightborne or the Danrassinas.

    In fact the only group that culturally divulged from it's predecessors entirely were the high elves. That is why the Thalassian elf is a separate category of elf entirely to the night elf.. and why Nightborne isn't that way to night elf, nor void elf that way to blood or high elf.

    Void elf culture is entirely Thalassian, nightborne culture is entirely kaldorei.
    I actually believe Nightborne were supposed to go Alliance and San'layn Horde. It both makes sense, considering you could easily have Nightborne sheltering kaldorei in Suramar, which is city of birth for most of significant kaldorei we know. Whole Suramar campaign builds ties with night elves a lot with growing of arcan'dor, rebellion against power hungry ruler and later abandoning font of great magical power in order to start new way of life. As for San'layn, they are included in the first part of War campaign in BfA and Alliance learn of them and tries to find a way to neutralize them. If you think about it, it also makes really good sense, considering Sylvanas is the Warchief and she already taken Dark Rangers, another kind of undead elves, under her wing. San'layn would be good way to unlock Dark Ranger fantasy, which is long time request from Horde players. We all know that Blizz plans their features great way in advance, so these particular parts of the story were not entirely replaced, but eventually taken in other direction.

    Void elves, while eventually have some appeal, feel as a rushed concept and their implementation is lacking as well. They still need a lot of work to be done. Faction elf swap gave us interesting moments, so I'm curious what else we will see. I'd still prefer Alliance nightborne and Horde san'layn though. but I eventually become quite fond of void elves. On the other hand, I still have really hard time to really accept nightborne within the Horde. They feel really out of place in the faction.

  20. #24180
    @Vaedan
    Blizzard are smart, I think they realised nothing short of high elves would make up for nightborne going horde. and i think they spied Ravenmoon' or Mace's poll that asked alliance players if they'd be okay to get high elves in exchange for nightborne. But blizzard are also cruel, they decided to give high elves with a twist.. till this day i'm not sure whether the motivation was genuinely trying to do something cool, or just plain out right reluctant to give the blonde elf model to the alliance seeing it was the horde's most prized possession. [Nvm the irony of an alliance based race been the horde's most prized possession - for some, or the thrill of the alliances' most prized possession becoming the horde - for some]

    Question is would you have preferred the Nightborne's/San'layn offering instead? or the nightborne /High elf offering?

    I know most alliance believe that neither Nightborne, nor void elves or high elves should be horde, and blizzard should move away from dumping elves on the horde. It is likely that some horde believe that too the elf haters anyway. But elves are no the horde, and if they're not willing to change them, why not give blood elves some friends?

    I admit nightborne were designed for the night elf story and night elf lore - but what their fans don't realise, is that when it comes to joining factions, it's not an automatic guarantee. The minute blood elves went horde, the alliance could no longer guarantee it's groups won't make the transition for the horde. i guess people like Ravenmoon felt that the horde was popular enough by Legion, so they weren't in danger of the horde stealing the Nightborne.. and we know what happened..

    But the premise was different, yes the horde were much more popular now, and this fact allowed void elves to happen on the alliance so that nightborne could go horde.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    I actually believe Nightborne were supposed to go Alliance and San'layn Horde. It both makes sense, considering you could easily have Nightborne sheltering kaldorei in Suramar, which is city of birth for most of significant kaldorei we know. Whole Suramar campaign builds ties with night elves a lot with growing of arcan'dor, rebellion against power hungry ruler and later abandoning font of great magical power in order to start new way of life. As for San'layn, they are included in the first part of War campaign in BfA and Alliance learn of them and tries to find a way to neutralize them. If you think about it, it also makes really good sense, considering Sylvanas is the Warchief and she already taken Dark Rangers, another kind of undead elves, under her wing. San'layn would be good way to unlock Dark Ranger fantasy, which is long time request from Horde players. We all know that Blizz plans their features great way in advance, so these particular parts of the story were not entirely replaced, but eventually taken in other direction.

    Void elves, while eventually have some appeal, feel as a rushed concept and their implementation is lacking as well. They still need a lot of work to be done. Faction elf swap gave us interesting moments, so I'm curious what else we will see. I'd still prefer Alliance nightborne and Horde san'layn though. but I eventually become quite fond of void elves. On the other hand, I still have really hard time to really accept nightborne within the Horde. They feel really out of place in the faction.
    We might very well have had more night elf presence in Suramar if they had carried on showing the group and not taking them all into the horde. Notice how all night elf engagement with the nightborne just came ot an end after the original story ended in 7.1 - the devs changed bits of the 7.1 story to make Liadrin appear more sympathetic, and Tyrande replaced Vereesa for the alliance side and was given harsher lines.

    There is then no longer any contact with Farodin, the Moonguard, the Val'Sharah druids and priests, night eyes, they all disappear.. this is because Nightborne are now horde, and night elf interaction is a no go.. so poof gone.

    however if they were neutral, we'd have seen all of this caveat.

    San'layn would have ben the obvious choice for blood elves, connecting the Forsaken to the blood elves even more strongly. Alas it wasn't to be, but though rushed a concept, many of you guys seem to find void elves quite cool. I take it you are very satisfied with them and basically only crave more lore as the main problem?

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