Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Tanaria]

See that's what's disingenuous. "Oh I don't count them because they swap races if alliance". They are still BE warlocks, choosen because they are representative of the BE fantasy, you can just dismiss that.

The point of classes is that they are representatives of a racial culture. For example, we literally know of Night Elven paladins, but they are not playable. They are niche, not representative of the sociocultural trends. And that happens with all races who have NPC's outside their choices.

But that's literally the point of playable classes; they are a representation of the cultural landscape of a race, and Blood Elven Warlocks have never been treated as as the "niche" you claim, no more so than any other class combo without focus like warriors and rogues.

They are still part of BE society anc culture, nothing points otherwise, so why do you single them out?

I single out the Inn followers of all races and classes because they are swapped so it's impossible to tell which ones are actually "canon" and which ones aren't. This isn't just for the Blood Elf Warlocks, I also do this for the Forsaken Monks, Troll Priests, Dwarf Shamans, Night Elf Rogues etc etc.

To me, they don't represent any society because they are swapped. So if all those Blood Elf Warlocks swapped to being Worgen Warlocks, does that now mean that Blood Elf Warlocks are now less again and the Worgen Warlock population has increased? I only consider Aeda because she is canon and is swapped for a Draenei Paladin follower.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

they do not exist. warlocks were never anything in quelthalas society. just a few junkies in a basement.

the rogues at least have their own organization pathstalker

and I saw members of pathstalker doing things in quelthalas to protect the kingdom not like warlocks who do nothing.

-You completelly dismiss the link between Warlocks and Blood Mages.

-Pathstalkers are a part of the Farstriders.

-Your grasp of the lore is more and more tenous every moment.

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I single out the Inn followers of all races and classes because they are swapped so it's impossible to tell which ones are actually "canon" and which ones aren't. This isn't just for the Blood Elf Warlocks, I also do this for the Forsaken Monks, Troll Priests, Dwarf Shamans, Night Elf Rogues etc etc.

To me, they don't represent any society because they are swapped. So if all those Blood Elf Warlocks swapped to being Worgen Warlocks, does that now mean that Blood Elf Warlocks are now less again and the Worgen Warlock population has increased? I only consider Aeda because she is canon and is swapped for a Draenei Paladin follower.

That just... kinda backwards. Like do you realize that every followers is within the canonical choices for their race; the whole point is how they are canon to the immersion. They are all given names that link to their personas. Why wouldn't they be canon because the other faction gets swaps for gameplay purposes? That makes no sense.

Why would anyone of them not be canon?

[Tanaria]

-You completelly dismiss the link between Warlocks and Blood Mages.

-Pathstalkers are a part of the Farstriders.

-Your grasp of the lore is more and more tenous every moment.

That's because Warlocks and Blood Mages are two different things.

Blizzard has emphasized that Blood Magi are extensions to the Mage class, specifically to Blood Elves, but expanded, but not limited to, Humans and Zandalari Trolls.
Warlocks - they are different altogether.

We saw what Blood Mages are all about on the Isle of Thunder with the Sunreaver Mages and their infusion of Blood controlled magic, going into the new smaller constructs.
Warlocks don't do this because they don't need to.

That just... kinda backwards. Like do you realize that every followers is within the canonical choices for their race; the whole point is how they are canon to the immersion. They are all given names that link to their personas. Why wouldn't they be canon because the other faction gets swaps for gameplay purposes? That makes no sense.

Why would anyone of them not be canon?

Why would they be canon if it's mainly just for gameplay purposes? Doesn't gameplay, in most cases, override lore?

I mean, I recruited as many Blood Elf followers as I could and the only 1 I interacted with was Aeda for 1 quest.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

That's because Warlocks and Blood Mages are two different things.

Blizzard has emphasized that Blood Magi are extensions to the Mage class, specifically to Blood Elves, but expanded, but not limited to, Humans and Zandalari Trolls.
Warlocks - they are different altogether.

We saw what Blood Mages are all about on the Isle of Thunder with the Sunreaver Mages and their infusion of Blood controlled magic, going into the new smaller constructs.
Warlocks don't do this because they don't need to.

That's just inaccurate. You can't claim Blood Mages are are extensions of the Mage Class, dismissing the fact they are an hybridization of the Mage+Warlock classes lorewise. Come on! Blood mages since their inception have had warlock coded spells, they literally gave them the "verdant spheres" cosmetic choice.

What's the point of this if not just further erasure of BE warlock themes?

[Paperfox]

More customization options just make for a better game experience, imho.

I doubt if I'll ever play a Worgen again, but I think that they should be able to have tails if they want them. Whether or not I can /pull them (like a /boop). That would be funny if they gave the worgen a /happy animation like the Miqo'te.

The more the merrier.

[Tanaria]

That's just inaccurate. You can't claim Blood Mages are are extensions of the Mage Class, dismissing the fact they are an hybridization of the Mage+Warlock classes lorewise. Come on! Blood mages since their inception have had warlock coded spells, they literally gave them the "verdant spheres" cosmetic choice.

What's the point of this if not just further erasure of BE warlock themes?

That was Kael'thas only.

No other Blood Mage has had those verdant spheres floating above their heads.

And if we really want to drill down into it, players were able to have fire verdant spheres over their heads, but they had to play as a Fire Mage.
Going back to Kael'thas - he mainly used Fireball and Pyroblast. In death, he also uses some Arcane spells as well as Fire spells.

So, having the spell "incinerate" or maybe "drain mana" does not take away that "blood mage" is like, 99% Mage based, what most people think as an extension to the Mages, which are core to Quel'Thalas.

Warlocks, as a main thing and what we know about them, just aren't a big thing within the Silvermoon and Quel'Thalas society, these days. It's on the same scale as the Stormwind Warlocks. They are there, but not used or do anything.

If you truly want Blood Elf Warlocks of Silvermoon to stand up and make a scene, then I'd say that Blood Elves would have to lose the Sunwell again. It's a possible route, but it's whether Blizzard wants to replay that story again.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Why would they be canon if it's mainly just for gameplay purposes? Doesn't gameplay, in most cases, override lore?

I mean, I recruited as many Blood Elf followers as I could and the only 1 I interacted with was Aeda for 1 quest.

But why wouldn't be they canon? The whole point is that they don't contradict any lore, they were made as part of each races possible conventions; even the Pandaren Death Knight was given a canon fitting title "Gravewalker" and then later we saw the introduction of canonical DK Pandaren.

I just understand why would you assume that they aren't canon when nothing hints any contradiction to anything. The gameplay overrides lore is a thing where there's a contradiction, but there's none here whatsover so I literally don't get why you'd question these character's canonicity, when many of them show in quest chains, and later in the start of the Broken Shore.

If you deny these NPC's canonicity, you might as well do so for every NPC then.

[Tanaria]

But why wouldn't be they canon? The whole point is that they don't contradict any lore, they were made as part of each races possible conventions; even the Pandaren Death Knight was given a canon fitting title "Gravewalker" and then later we saw the introduction of canonical DK Pandaren.

I just understand why would you assume that they aren't canon when nothing hints any contradiction to anything. The gameplay overrides lore is a thing where there's a contradiction, but there's none here whatsover so I literally don't get why you'd question these character's canonicity, when many of them show in quest chains, and later in the start of the Broken Shore.

If you deny these NPC's canonicity, you might as well do so for every NPC then.

Well shoot me.
Let's agree to disagree on the WoD follower system.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

That was Kael'thas only.

No other Blood Mage has had those verdant spheres floating above their heads.

And if we really want to drill down into it, players were able to have fire verdant spheres over their heads, but they had to play as a Fire Mage.
Going back to Kael'thas - he mainly used Fireball and Pyroblast. In death, he also uses some Arcane spells as well as Fire spells.

So, having the spell "incinerate" or maybe "drain mana" does not take away that "blood mage" is like, 99% Mage based, what most people think as an extension to the Mages, which are core to Quel'Thalas.

Warlocks, as a main thing and what we know about them, just aren't a big thing within the Silvermoon and Quel'Thalas society, these days. It's on the same scale as the Stormwind Warlocks. They are there, but not used or do anything.

I'm referring to the "Glyph of Verdant Spheres" That Warlock Players literally had up until Legion. They literally gave warlocks blood mage verdant spheres. Now we have the "fel touches shards" that obviously maintain the same aesthetic. Mage orbs were never green as Blood Mages are.

You also dismiss the obvious overlap of the Fire and Destruction Specs. You are making an arbitrary call by saying that Blood Mages are "99%" mage based, when the NPC's we have seen in game use elements of both mages and warlocks. That's simply bias.

Right now we don't have one class to represent Blood mage fantasy, both mages and warlocks can, because the overlap is obvious. So I don't get your insistence that only mages fit the bill.

[Tanaria]

I'm referring to the "Glyph of Verdant Spheres" That Warlock Players literally had up until Legion. They literally gave warlocks blood mage verdant spheres. Now we have the "fel touches shards" that obviously maintain the same aesthetic. Mage orbs were never green as Blood Mages are.

You also dismiss the obvious overlap of the Fire and Destruction Specs. You are making an arbitrary call by saying that Blood Mages are "99%" mage based, when the NPC's we have seen in game use elements of both mages and warlocks. That's simply bias.

Right now we don't have one class to represent Blood mage fantasy, both mages and warlocks can, because the overlap is obvious. So I don't get your insistence that only mages fit the bill.

Give me an example of when a Blood Mage has used Warlock-based spells. Was it Kael'thas during Tempest Keep or MT?
Or are we referring to the W3 iteration of Blood Mages?

Because that iteration and the WoW iteration are very different.

I mean, a whole Mage tier was named "Bloodmage Regalia" so...

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Well shoot me.
Let's agree to disagree on the WoD follower system.

I don't think I can. Like if you dismiss aspects of the worldbuilding because they don't fit your narrative, it just comes across as nitpicking everything to make an argument and dismissing what doesn't fit, instead of reaching the most logical conclusion based on all of the evidence, and you are not just doing it with this.

There has to be consistency, otherwise you are just self-servingly using whatever lore bits you can use for your point and denying those you don't like.

[Tanaria]

I don't think I can. Like if you dismiss aspects of the worldbuilding because they don't fit your narrative, it just comes across as nitpicking everything to make an argument and dismissing what doesn't fit, instead of reaching the most logical conclusion based on all of the evidence, and you are not just doing it with this.

There has to be consistency, otherwise you are just self-servingly using whatever lore bits you can use for your point and denying those you don't like.

Ok, so they are canon as example.
What do they do for the Silvermoon society? And please don't say "They expand it" because all they actually do is just stand around my Garrison all day. They do nothing other than walk from small point A to small point B every 3 hours.

I mean, it's more than the actual Silvermoon Warlocks who actually do nothing at all, but I don't personally consider it "groundbreaking" if they're walking a couple of feat.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Give me an example of when a Blood Mage has used Warlock-based spells. Was it Kael'thas during Tempest Keep or MT?
Or are we referring to the W3 iteration of Blood Mages?

Because that iteration and the WoW iteration are very different.

I mean, a whole Mage tier was named "Bloodmage Regalia" so...

Yeah, that's why I am saying that Blood Mages occupy a place between Mage and Warlock fantasy. I'm not saying that "oh all Blood mages are warlocks because they had the Verdant Spheres" The whole point is that BOTH occupy that role.

If it was "Oh Blood Mages don't use warlock based spells" -despite their blood syphon literally being a life drain- then the last time a Blood Mage used mage spells, it was frost magic in TBC

[Swnem]

Sure yeah let's keep diluting the void in VOID elves. GG blizz

Hope in 9.2 we also get green skin maghar orcs, LFD draenie without tattoos and dark blue skin, and HM tauren with bull horns.

Hell if we really wanna be fair the horde should get NB that weren't as exposed to the night well and thus look like regular vanilla ass nelves.

Stupid....

Fyi you still don't have high elves outside of RP'er mental gymnastics.

Don't be ridiculous. The void in void elves is impossible to get rid of when your whole character changes into void form every minute in battle.

The void is impossible to ignore.

[Tanaria]

Yeah, that's why I am saying that Blood Mages occupy a place between Mage and Warlock fantasy. I'm not saying that "oh all Blood mages are warlocks because they had the Verdant Spheres" The whole point is that BOTH occupy that role.

If it was "Oh Blood Mages don't use warlock based spells" -despite their blood syphon literally being a life drain- then the last time a Blood Mage used mage spells, it was frost magic in TBC

Ok, so we've seen Blood Mages use Fire and Arcane (Kael'thas) and Frost Magic.
They do a great job of rounding off the Blood Elf Mages.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Ok, so they are canon as example.
What do they do for the Silvermoon society? And please don't say "They expand it" because all they actually do is just stand around my Garrison all day. They do nothing other than walk from small point A to small point B every 3 hours.

I mean, it's more than the actual Silvermoon Warlocks who actually do nothing at all, but I don't personally consider it "groundbreaking" if they're walking a couple of feat.

What was groundbreaking about Warlocks is that they were a radical societal shift from the earlier Thalassian culture, that's undeniable. From something forbidden to something allowed in the open.

The point is that you are not treating rogues and warriors as "niche" as you do so with warlocks. That's the dismissive part here. We have all of them as part of BE society, as Rogues and Warriors are part of the Farstriders in terms of organization despite existing as individuals, so do Warlocks as part of the Magistry.

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Ok, so we've seen Blood Mages use Fire and Arcane (Kael'thas) and Frost Magic.
They do a great job of rounding off the Blood Elf Mages.

Again, dismissing all the other points were Warlocks were given literal signifiers of Blood mages so your point has any validity.

You are the one that purposes the notion of gameplay over lore, and here you are, using a single Blood Mage NPC using frost magic as confirmation they are totally mages, dismissing all the ways they have not been just so.

[Tanaria]

What was groundbreaking about Warlocks is that they were a radical societal shift from the earlier Thalassian culture, that's undeniable. From something forbidden to something allowed in the open.

The point is that you are not treating rogues and warriors as "niche" as you do so with warlocks. That's the dismissive part here. We have all of them as part of BE society, as Rogues and Warriors are part of the Farstriders in terms of organization despite existing as individuals, so do Warlocks as part of the Magistry.

Rogues and Warriors are niche, just like Warlocks.
Rogues and Warriors are just part of the Farstrider army, which I have also stated.

Warlocks are just a very small niche of the "Magisters" whom don't do anything. Straight up. They haven't done anything even in TBC, so...

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Again, dismissing all the other points were Warlocks were given literal signifiers of Blood mages so your point has any validity.

You are the one that purposes the notion of gameplay over lore, and here you are, using a single Blood Mage NPC using frost magic as confirmation they are totally mages, dismissing all the ways they have not been just so.

Ok - so why aren't the Warlock trainers in Quel'Thalas called "Blood Mage <name>"

Is it because the few blood elf warlocks and the main blood mages are two separate things?

Again, I think your hung up on the TBC ideals of the Outland Sunfury Blood Elves.
The Warlocks just aren't a big thing in Quel'Thalas.

I'm a Blood Elf fan and I've accepted this so I don't see why your trying to push that it is a major thing? A true fan knows when certain aspects of their favorite race are not deeply explored. Blood Elf Warlocks are part of this. I've just accepted it.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Rogues and Warriors are niche, just like Warlocks.
Rogues and Warriors are just part of the Farstrider army, which I have also stated.

Warlocks are just a very small niche of the "Magisters" whom don't do anything. Straight up. They haven't done anything even in TBC, so...

I mean the whole idea of calling 3 playable classes -let's throw monks there too I guess- "niche" because they don't have the spotlight, despite, you know, being playable classes, thus representation of the societal norms of a race, is legit bonkers.

So congratulations.

[Tanaria]

I mean the whole idea of calling 3 playable classes -let's throw monks there too I guess- "niche" because they don't have the spotlight, despite, you know, being playable classes, thus representation of the societal norms of a race, is legit bonkers.

So congratulations.

Blizzard choosing not to focus on certain classes for my favorite race is Blizzard's choice. I just choose not to stomp my feet about it, because I don't mind it.

To be honest, I'm quite happy with the aspects that they do choose to focus on, because they have spent more time with perfecting the Blood Knights (Paladins), Farstriders (Hunters) and Magisters (Mages.)
I'd rather have 3 expansive stories than get 10 half-baked stories.

Do Blood Elf Warlocks look cool with green fire and a green Dreadsteed? Yes. Are Blizzard going to give them some amazing, interesting story? Probably not - likely just tie it to a Blood Elf Magister story.

[Rhlor]

"Deathpath." I assume you mean "Pathstalker." That's more the "Blood Elf Rogue" thing.
To me, Pathstalkers are just more in line with the farstriders, hence why we just see more blood elf rangers than we do blood elf rogues, barring Valeera, who's more Alliance anyway and doesn't truly represent Silvermoon.

Belloc Brightblade subleader of reliquary is a rogue

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That's just inaccurate. You can't claim Blood Mages are are extensions of the Mage Class, dismissing the fact they are an hybridization of the Mage+Warlock classes lorewise. Come on! Blood mages since their inception have had warlock coded spells, they literally gave them the "verdant spheres" cosmetic choice.

What's the point of this if not just further erasure of BE warlock themes?

blood mage are not warlocks. the uses of blood magic is different from fel magic. Moreover, it can be said that it would be more related to the magic of death because they use anima.
kaelthas the most famous blood mage is not a warlock is a mage.
The warlocks are not they do not represent anything in the quelthalas society, they are there obviously but they are as important as the monks can be.
You know that the origin of the "verdant spheres" is not Fel, right?
by the way pathstalker is an organization within the farstriders that is true, in the same way that blood knight is under magister.

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I'm referring to the "Glyph of Verdant Spheres" That Warlock Players literally had up until Legion. They literally gave warlocks blood mage verdant spheres. Now we have the "fel touches shards" that obviously maintain the same aesthetic. Mage orbs were never green as Blood Mages are.

You also dismiss the obvious overlap of the Fire and Destruction Specs. You are making an arbitrary call by saying that Blood Mages are "99%" mage based, when the NPC's we have seen in game use elements of both mages and warlocks. That's simply bias.

Right now we don't have one class to represent Blood mage fantasy, both mages and warlocks can, because the overlap is obvious. So I don't get your insistence that only mages fit the bill.

we also don't have a playable class that represents botanists or spellbreakers in the game
I want to play botanist!