1. #24201
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    That you "headcanon" the relevance of Blood Elf Warlocks doesn't make you an expert, just biased.

    My point is that all of your speculation about warlocks being a small part of BE society is that, speculation.

    Warlocks were incredibly important on those first few years as part of the new BE identity, and while we can theorize about their current standing within BE society, it really is just speculation from your part to diminish their role, by calling them "very niche".

    Blood Elves and Forsaken remain the two Horde races were Fel usage was never shown as taboo.
    when were warlocks an important part of the blood elf identity?
    If you tell me about the traitors in the service of kael then if the warlocks were important in the identity of the traitors.
    fel is no longer used in quelthalas the fell crystals were replaced by mana crystals.

  2. #24202
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    Warlocks as anyone who knows the lore of the blood elves knows that they are an insignificant part of quelthala society.
    Your grasp of the lore is nowhere near strong enough to make these claims, dude.

  3. #24203
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    That's false.

    Calia leads the Kaldorei Dark Rangers and one BE.

    Velonara leads the remaining Dark Rangers



    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/War..._(quest)#Notes

    - - - Updated - - -



    I understood. My issue with your argument is that you keep denying its visible role by calling it stuff like "niche".
    she herself recognizes that the dark ranger are loyal to the forsaken in that line.

    if calia is going to be the new leader forsaken that is a no-brainer now she is one of the leaders and clearly the dark rangers are under the command of calia now.

    What visible role are you talking about? the only thing warlocks in quelthalas do is gather in a basement and get high on fel, although now that fel crystals have been replaced by mana crystals I suppose they will use those crystals.
    Last edited by Rhlor; 2021-08-21 at 09:20 PM.

  4. #24204
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    when were warlocks an important part of the blood elf identity?
    I think the part where warlocks were introduced as one of the BE classes in contrast to every other HE depiction before them, and are you know, still a class and thus part of BE identity, is kinda obvious.

  5. #24205
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Your grasp of the lore is nowhere near strong enough to make these claims, dude.
    I love the lore blood elf and if the warlocks had been important I would be the first to recognize it but they are not.

    They have no leader, they have no organization, they never contributed any force to the blood elves' campaigns anywhere.

    the warlocks are just junkies in a basement in quelthalas.

  6. #24206
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    SNIP
    But as far as Silvermoon goes, Warlocks within that city are no different than those in Stormwind or Ironforge. In the main, Human and Blood Elf Warlocks were main members of Burning Legion Cults like those in Desolace, Ashenvale and the Blood Elf Warlock/Legion cult that we met in Legion which introduced the Mage Tower. Silvermoon itself - it just doesn't bolster "Warlock" or if it does, it's roughly at the same level as Stormwind. The Warlocks are there, but they are seen and not really heard from.

    High Elves also have Warlocks such as some within the Silver Covenant, so being a Warlock is not a one-way thing. Plus, we had so many Void Warlocks - Blood Elf Warlocks who later became Void Elf Warlocks - indeed, their were more of them dotted around than their Sin'dorei counterparts.

    And those who did like these are sometimes those who want Blood Elves out of Quel'Thalas, because we enter into the idea that the only way these "bad boy elves" can come about is by living in mud huts and small camps and have nothing. I don't want them, if it costs the Blood Elf fanbase, Silvermoon - especially a Silvermoon that hasn't been revamped for the Blood Elf fanbase (and the Horde, by extension.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    there are also high elves warlocks and there are even high elves as part of the cult of the damned or serving the old gods. the important thing about being a blood elf is to be a patriot and fight to protect quelthalas and the sunwell, are there warlocks between blood elves? yes, as there are human warlocks.
    do you know a warlock blood elf organization? None because they are a small minority who were never important in the Quelthalas society and they do not have a leader because I repeat they are not important and there are very few.
    The Sanctum in Silvermoon is a very small Warlock Guild, but they hardly do anything. Their presence is hardly noted, their actions were only noted by the Black Harvest when Shinfel took her Scepter back from one of the Warlock trainers and a small group of blood elf warlocks in Dalaran, during Legion - but that was a mission table quest.

    So, their is a Warlock Guild within Silvermoon - but it's small and ever since the Silvermoon Government closed Keleen's shop, I can't imagine his actions were favored by the Quel'Thalas public, when it became official and his actions reflecting on the Sanctum Guild as well.
    Last edited by Tanaria; 2021-08-21 at 09:19 PM.

  7. #24207
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    she herself recognizes that the dark ranger are loyal to the forsaken in that line.
    COME ON DUDE

    Both the sin'dorei and Forsaken are my kin. I stand with them, and with the Horde
    You are unbelievable.
    if calia is going to be the new leader forsaken that is a no-brainer now he is one of the leaders and clearly the dark rangers are under the command of calia now.
    That's literally speculation on your part. But dismissing literal lore and making up your own is like, your MO.

  8. #24208
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    I think the part where warlocks were introduced as one of the BE classes in contrast to every other HE depiction before them, and are you know, still a class and thus part of BE identity, is kinda obvious.
    warlocks are part of the human identity?

    high elf warlock

  9. #24209
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    warlocks are part of the human identity?

    high elf warlock
    Nah man, I'm done with you, If all you keep doing is jumping to the next point when you get called out on your inaccuracies, arguing with you is pointless.

    Also YES, warlocks ARE part of human identity, the difference is we get told several times how they have to be on the DL about. Thing that never is done with BE's.

    And let's play the sampler game then, and let's say the number of Warlock NPC's for high elves and blood elves is proportional to their in universe numbers.

    So I'm sure that one High Elf warlock is proportionally the same than all the BE warlocks.

  10. #24210
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    I understood. My issue with your argument is that you keep denying its visible role by calling it stuff like "niche".
    But what visible role? Shinfel may have been part of the Sanctum before joining the Black Harvest, but we don't know. As far as we can see, she's just a powerful Blood Elf Warlock of the Black Harvest.

    Please don't confuse the Sunfury actions to the general practices within Silvermoon. What was going on, on Outland - the Silvermoon Blood Elves had no true idea about, until the Felblood Elves and Kael'thas attacked the Silvermoon Blood Knights and stole back M'uru. It was the Magisters of Quel'thalas who put the Fel-Crystals in place around the land, but as far as I know, the Magisters were all Mages of varying degrees. (Blood Magi, Sunreaver Mages, Leykeepers.)

    Unless I missed something, ever since their introduction, Silvermoon Blood Elf Warlocks have never been used nor seen, for anything, other than seeing them for the Sin'dorei heritage armor questline and that was at the very end.
    Last edited by Tanaria; 2021-08-21 at 09:30 PM.

  11. #24211
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    But what visible role? Shinfel may have been part of the Sanctum before joining the Black Harvest, but we don't know. As far as we can see, she's just a powerful Blood Elf Warlock of the Black Harvest.

    Please don't confuse the Sunfury actions to the general practices within Silvermoon. What was going on, on Outland - the Silvermoon Blood Elves had no idea about, until the Felblood Elves and Kael'thas attacked the Silvermoon Blood Knights and stole back M'uru.

    Unless I missed something, ever since their introduction, Silvermoon Blood Elf Warlocks have never been used nor seen, for anything, other than seeing them for the Sin'dorei heritage armor questline and that was at the very end.
    I'm not even talking about the Sunfury, I'm talking about the like 5 Warlock BE followers we had in WoD, specifically Aeda Brightdawn, a BE Warlock that literally was on route to helping Lady Liadrin in Auchindoun before joining our garrison.

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Aeda_Brightdawn

  12. #24212
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Nah man, I'm done with you, If all you keep doing is jumping to the next point when you get called out on your inaccuracies, arguing with you is pointless.

    Also YES, warlocks ARE part of human identity, the difference is we get told several times how they have to be on the DL about. Thing that never is done with BE's.

    And let's play the sampler game then, and let's say the number of Warlock NPC's for high elves and blood elves is proportional to their in universe numbers.

    So I'm sure that one High Elf warlock is proportionally the same than all the BE warlocks.
    I see more void elves warlocks helping the void elves cause in BFA than blood elves warlocks because I literally don't see any.

    about the dark ranger yes she names the blood elves and the forsaken but once again the dark ranger are always at the service of the forsaken never at any time did anything for quelthalas, instead they were sylvanas loyalists.

  13. #24213
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    I'm not even talking about the Sunfury, I'm talking about the like 5 Warlock BE followers we had in WoD, specifically Aeda Brightdawn, a BE Warlock that literally was on route to helping Lady Liadrin in Auchindoun before joining our garrison.

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Aeda_Brightdawn
    I know about Aeda, but I'm unsure about the others - unless they were just random named NPCs from the Inn. I don't truly count them as they would race swap, if you race swapped your character. So those other blood elf warlocks would become Human, dwarf, gnome or Worgen if you race swapped to the Alliance.

    So we have 1 true canon Blood Elf Warlock - okay...who else? I've named Shinfel Blightsworn of the Black Harvest, but unless I look at the names of those within the Sanctum of Silvermoon, I honestly can't think of any other blood elf warlocks, barring Elynara who is the Archaeology trainer in Silvermoon.

    I think this is down to Blizzard wanting the Blood Elves to take on the "Blood Magi" thing, as we saw in Nazmir. Blood Magic is just more their thing than fel magic, which is fine because they are called "blood" elves. So studying "blood magic" to the nth degree does seem fitting.
    Last edited by Tanaria; 2021-08-21 at 09:41 PM.

  14. #24214
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    I see more void elves warlocks helping the void elves cause in BFA than blood elves warlocks because I literally don't see any.

    about the dark ranger yes she names the blood elves and the forsaken but once again the dark ranger are always at the service of the forsaken never at any time did anything for quelthalas, instead they were sylvanas loyalists.
    "I mean I know it's the lore that's being literally shown but I chose to believe otherwise"

  15. #24215
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    I'm not even talking about the Sunfury, I'm talking about the like 5 Warlock BE followers we had in WoD, specifically Aeda Brightdawn, a BE Warlock that literally was on route to helping Lady Liadrin in Auchindoun before joining our garrison.

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Aeda_Brightdawn
    really? are we going to have to understand that some followers for the mission table in an expansion that nobody liked shows us the warlocks as a fundamental part of the blood elf identity?

    blood knight, ranger, magister even deathpath (rogue) are part of the blood elf identity

  16. #24216
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    really? are we going to have to understand that some followers for the mission table in an expansion that nobody liked shows us the warlocks as a fundamental part of the blood elf identity?

    blood knight, ranger, magister even deathpath (rogue) are part of the blood elf identity
    "Deathpath." I assume you mean "Pathstalker." That's more the "Blood Elf Rogue" thing.
    To me, Pathstalkers are just more in line with the farstriders, hence why we just see more blood elf rangers than we do blood elf rogues, barring Valeera, who's more Alliance anyway and doesn't truly represent Silvermoon.

  17. #24217
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    I know about Aeda, but I'm unsure about the others - unless they were just random named NPCs from the Inn. I don't truly count them as they would race swap, if you race swapped your character. So those other blood elf warlocks would become Human, dwarf, gnome or Worgen if you race swapped to the Alliance.

    So we have 1 true canon Blood Elf Warlock - okay...who else? I've named Shinfel Blightsworn of the Black Harvest, but unless I look at the names of those within the Sanctum of Silvermoon, I honestly can't think of any other blood elf warlocks.

    I think this is down to Blizzard wanting the Blood Elves to take on the "Blood Magi" thing, as we saw in Nazmir. Blood Magic is just more their thing than fel magic, which is fine because they are called "blood" elves. So studying "blood magic" to the nth degree does seem fitting.
    they do not exist. warlocks were never anything in quelthalas society. just a few junkies in a basement.

    the rogues at least have their own organization pathstalker

    and I saw members of pathstalker doing things in quelthalas to protect the kingdom not like warlocks who do nothing.

  18. #24218
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    I know about Aeda, but I'm unsure about the others - unless they were just random named NPCs from the Inn. I don't truly count them as they would race swap, if you race swapped your character. So those other blood elf warlocks would become Human, dwarf, gnome or Worgen if you race swapped to the Alliance.

    So we have 1 true canon Blood Elf Warlock - okay...who else? I've named Shinfel Blightsworn of the Black Harvest, but unless I look at the names of those within the Sanctum of Silvermoon, I honestly can't think of any other blood elf warlocks, barring Elynara who is the Archaeology trainer in Silvermoon.

    I think this is down to Blizzard wanting the Blood Elves to take on the "Blood Magi" thing, as we saw in Nazmir. Blood Magic is just more their thing than fel magic, which is fine because they are called "blood" elves. So studying "blood magic" to the nth degree does seem fitting.
    See that's what's disingenuous. "Oh I don't count them because they swap races if alliance". They are still BE warlocks, choosen because they are representative of the BE fantasy, you can just dismiss that.

    The point of classes is that they are representatives of a racial culture. For example, we literally know of Night Elven paladins, but they are not playable. They are niche, not representative of the sociocultural trends. And that happens with all races who have NPC's outside their choices.

    But that's literally the point of playable classes; they are a representation of the cultural landscape of a race, and Blood Elven Warlocks have never been treated as as the "niche" you claim, no more so than any other class combo without focus like warriors and rogues.

    They are still part of BE society anc culture, nothing points otherwise, so why do you single them out?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    really? are we going to have to understand that some followers for the mission table in an expansion that nobody liked shows us the warlocks as a fundamental part of the blood elf identity?

    blood knight, ranger, magister even deathpath (rogue) are part of the blood elf identity
    The part where you think that "nobody liked" WoD has any incidence on the validity of its canon tells us everything we need to know about your actual respect and understanding of the lore.

    Deathpath isn't even a thing FFS

  19. #24219
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    See that's what's disingenuous. "Oh I don't count them because they swap races if alliance". They are still BE warlocks, choosen because they are representative of the BE fantasy, you can just dismiss that.

    The point of classes is that they are representatives of a racial culture. For example, we literally know of Night Elven paladins, but they are not playable. They are niche, not representative of the sociocultural trends. And that happens with all races who have NPC's outside their choices.

    But that's literally the point of playable classes; they are a representation of the cultural landscape of a race, and Blood Elven Warlocks have never been treated as as the "niche" you claim, no more so than any other class combo without focus like warriors and rogues.

    They are still part of BE society anc culture, nothing points otherwise, so why do you single them out?
    I single out the Inn followers of all races and classes because they are swapped so it's impossible to tell which ones are actually "canon" and which ones aren't. This isn't just for the Blood Elf Warlocks, I also do this for the Forsaken Monks, Troll Priests, Dwarf Shamans, Night Elf Rogues etc etc.

    To me, they don't represent any society because they are swapped. So if all those Blood Elf Warlocks swapped to being Worgen Warlocks, does that now mean that Blood Elf Warlocks are now less again and the Worgen Warlock population has increased? I only consider Aeda because she is canon and is swapped for a Draenei Paladin follower.

  20. #24220
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    they do not exist. warlocks were never anything in quelthalas society. just a few junkies in a basement.

    the rogues at least have their own organization pathstalker

    and I saw members of pathstalker doing things in quelthalas to protect the kingdom not like warlocks who do nothing.
    -You completelly dismiss the link between Warlocks and Blood Mages.

    -Pathstalkers are a part of the Farstriders.

    -Your grasp of the lore is more and more tenous every moment.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    I single out the Inn followers of all races and classes because they are swapped so it's impossible to tell which ones are actually "canon" and which ones aren't. This isn't just for the Blood Elf Warlocks, I also do this for the Forsaken Monks, Troll Priests, Dwarf Shamans, Night Elf Rogues etc etc.

    To me, they don't represent any society because they are swapped. So if all those Blood Elf Warlocks swapped to being Worgen Warlocks, does that now mean that Blood Elf Warlocks are now less again and the Worgen Warlock population has increased? I only consider Aeda because she is canon and is swapped for a Draenei Paladin follower.
    That just... kinda backwards. Like do you realize that every followers is within the canonical choices for their race; the whole point is how they are canon to the immersion. They are all given names that link to their personas. Why wouldn't they be canon because the other faction gets swaps for gameplay purposes? That makes no sense.

    Why would anyone of them not be canon?

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