1. #24321
    @Beloren
    City for night elves that deserves that civilization Highborne style, and one of void elves that reflects the void difference.
    I don't even mind if elves are bigger on the alliance, because you've got night elves who are massive, and in void elves you get enough flavour of the high elves even if it's in void style - the horde doesn't need to lose.
    I completely agree with you. The Alliance has its own unique features, but like you said, to progress the Alliance developments they need to build a proper and glorious Night Elf Capital again. They can also expand Telogrus into a smaller Void Elf capital in which High elves will be welcomed, and those wishing to explore the Void more.

    But first those players who flood the US forums with their constant arguments and conflicts against Void elves having any theme other than Void and Goth must understand that all races in WoW are entitled to some variety. They cannot argue we need more blue and purple when we already have so much of it.

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    @MyWholeLifeIsThunder could you please post on here the image from Nessa with her blonde hair and Void Highlights you did for me? Here it is https://imgur.com/a/s5N4kn9
    I have no rights to post pictures! Whaaaa!!

  2. #24322
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleann View Post
    @Beloren


    I completely agree with you. The Alliance has its own unique features, but like you said, to progress the Alliance developments they need to build a proper and glorious Night Elf Capital again. They can also expand Telogrus into a smaller Void Elf capital in which High elves will be welcomed, and those wishing to explore the Void more.

    But first those players who flood the US forums with their constant arguments and conflicts against Void elves having any theme other than Void and Goth must understand that all races in WoW are entitled to some variety. They cannot argue we need more blue and purple when we already have so much of it.
    100% agreed.

    the themes of the night elves - star and moon lit night
    Nightborne - dark night

    blood elves - the sun and blood gems
    high elves - the sun and forest green

    void elves - the void and twisting nether space


    Are the 3 distinct styles they can cater to quite well. night elf has it's own incredible architecture it shares with the nightborne, - the differences seem to be in shades.. While Suramar is night elven, been the home of the nightborne, let's see if they build new stuff they build in that colour scheme, in contrast night elves would have similar styles but in moon light white, with glowing stars in gold and silver like we see in Zin'Azshari, which actually fits well as a home for the alliance high elves who should feel welcome amongst Highborne kind. Night elves will also have a forest architecture style which is what is used for rural areas.


    Blood elf: This architecture is my favourite, and I'd love to see it expanded upon, the colour schemes of gold, white and red are very beautiful.. high elves swapped the read with blue, but since they are not there atm, red rules the day. There is no modification between high elf and blood elf, just a different colour


    Void elevs I would really like to see the blood elf architecture have a void elf spin to it.. did you notice how the naga architecture was coral and pearl themed spin on the night elf architecture.. this is how you would adapt blood elf architecture for Void elves, it would feel different, like the naga do from normal night elf stuff , but very noticeable based off of the blood elf one too. that void tendril and wings like we have on the heritage armor for void elves w could work well.. so they'll have amended tower tops, colour schemes and maybe slightly amended tower shapes too.


    If blizzard do night elves and ovid elves well, there will never be a need for the alliance to have Silvermoon or Suramar, and the desire would be much lower because they got cool stuff too.

    There is enough diveristy amognst the elven groups to go around. Nightborne and night elves are pretty much the same civilziation and race, high, blood end void the same.

    I think that Telogrus Rift city would be much cooler than having an underground or cave city. I can see high elves living in both, the purer high elf groups, like maybe the silver Cvoenant and Dalaran high elves would move to the night elf capital, the ones who are joining the ren'dorei would move to Telogrus rift to continue their void studies

  3. #24323
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleann View Post
    @Beloren


    I completely agree with you. The Alliance has its own unique features, but like you said, to progress the Alliance developments they need to build a proper and glorious Night Elf Capital again. They can also expand Telogrus into a smaller Void Elf capital in which High elves will be welcomed, and those wishing to explore the Void more.

    But first those players who flood the US forums with their constant arguments and conflicts against Void elves having any theme other than Void and Goth must understand that all races in WoW are entitled to some variety. They cannot argue we need more blue and purple when we already have so much of it.

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    @MyWholeLifeIsThunder could you please post on here the image from Nessa with her blonde hair and Void Highlights you did for me? Here it is https://imgur.com/a/s5N4kn9
    I have no rights to post pictures! Whaaaa!!


    Thar se goes!

    Also, Nessa



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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    I really like the look of some of them with no tentacles or braids at all. Obviously nothing at all in place of the tentacles would work better with some styles than others. But imagine if we could just pick between tentacles, braids, or nothing there!
    Thank you for saving them! And yeah, for some does work better than others, but dang, just imagine the possibilities alone if they were toggable!

    Now, add braids to that, and we have perfection.

  4. #24324
    Wheeeeeee in love agaiiin thank you soooo much @MyWholeLifeIsThunder - now that's what I'm talking about, yes it could be a bit more work for Blizzard, but it's definitely worth it because then anti-Helfers cannot say we look exactly like Belfs. We will have some unique features to them while establishing variety at the same time.
    @Beloren
    Void elves I would really like to see the blood elf architecture have a void elf spin to it.. did you notice how the naga architecture was coral and pearl themed spin on the night elf architecture.. this is how you would adapt blood elf architecture for Void elves, it would feel different, like the naga do from normal night elf stuff , but very noticeable based off of the blood elf one too. that void tendril and wings like we have on the heritage armor for void elves w could work well.. so they'll have amended tower tops, colour schemes and maybe slightly amended tower shapes too.
    If blizzard do night elves and void elves well, there will never be a need for the alliance to have Silvermoon or Suramar, and the desire would be much lower because they got cool stuff too.
    Horde can relax with Silvermoon and Suramar no one is taking that from them. Let's not put all eggs in one basket . But I see what you are saying, that basically there will be no need to be JEALOUS of Silvermoon and Suramar if good work is done with the new Night Elf and Void Elf capitals! Crystal-clear lakes and waterfalls, lovely temples and updated tiger mounts even in the new Nelf place, and starcursed void crystals, tower tops, and dark blue lined decor on the buildings for Telogrus! Also, what I would love, a voidy forest with dark purple trees shining with little voidy stars on them, pathways lined with such forests and the ground would have a space-like starcursed look as well. Yes it would be dark, but it would be beautiful and unique. xxx

  5. #24325
    Elven Colour Schemes


    Night elves - mostly white (repreesenting moon and stars) with sky blue, dusk blue, midnight blue, and light purple shades
    Nightborne - cream beige, deeper purples and mauves

    Blood elves - Yellow/gold (representing sun), reds and white
    High elves - Yellow/gold, white and blue
    Void elves - Gold, deep purple, dark purple, dark blue

  6. #24326
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Thank you for saving them! And yeah, for some does work better than others, but dang, just imagine the possibilities alone if they were toggable!

    Now, add braids to that, and we have perfection.
    I think these styles in particular work well with no tentacles or braids, but it would be great to be able to choose what's there. Tentacles, braids, just more hair, or nothing!


  7. #24327
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    I think these styles in particular work well with no tentacles or braids, but it would be great to be able to choose what's there. Tentacles, braids, just more hair, or nothing!

    Exactly; if anything, Night Elves options prove how much variety a toggle option can add for hairstyles, I'd really like to see more of it across the board, and tentacles is a natural choice for the VE model.

    Not only because it gives us more tentacle-less options, but because we could ALSO have tentacles on the hairstyles that don't have them!

  8. #24328
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleann View Post
    Wheeeeeee in love agaiiin thank you soooo much @MyWholeLifeIsThunder - now that's what I'm talking about, yes it could be a bit more work for Blizzard, but it's definitely worth it because then anti-Helfers cannot say we look exactly like Belfs. We will have some unique features to them while establishing variety at the same time.
    @Beloren


    Horde can relax with Silvermoon and Suramar no one is taking that from them. Let's not put all eggs in one basket . But I see what you are saying, that basically there will be no need to be JEALOUS of Silvermoon and Suramar if good work is done with the new Night Elf and Void Elf capitals! Crystal-clear lakes and waterfalls, lovely temples and updated tiger mounts even in the new Nelf place, and starcursed void crystals, tower tops, and dark blue lined decor on the buildings for Telogrus! Also, what I would love, a voidy forest with dark purple trees shining with little voidy stars on them, pathways lined with such forests and the ground would have a space-like starcursed look as well. Yes it would be dark, but it would be beautiful and unique. xxx
    You know, this could have been the main problem with alliance elf fans all this time, failure to do them well on the alliance, or rather well enough ended up causing a lot of coveting of what was given to the horde. With such a disparity existing, alliance players to whom the elves first appeared in relation to, were always going to feel that was more their stuff.

    The faction division is also to blame as well because people think of it first as "alliance" or "horde" stuff rather than actually it just been elven stuff, whether Night elven (kaldorei/shal'dorei) or Thalassian (high/blood/void) - which will happen when only one faction can call a home with crystal clear lakes, waterfalls, temples and magical mounts home, while the other just doesn't measure up.

    It will be interesting what they do now, previously, it was understandable the horde got the shiny gems because it needed the numbers, but now it's the alliance that does, will the elves once more be the pivoting factor or the balancing factor for the two factions?

    If alliance elves are just as glorious and fantastical presented with full night elf package and a void version of the high elf package, will it help shift a few players back, enough to balance the scales rather than emptying the horde of Silvermoon/blood elves and of Suramar/Nightborne - which while the lazier option, would piss a hell of a lot more people off rather than encourage them.

    @ravenmoon This is basically how they should do it. With your elves showing the best of the night elves and the void elves without taking Silvermoon and Suramar, I'm sure those who joined the horde for those races because they felt night elves and void elves were been shat on and shafted, will probably be drawn back. Also the wow factor of being "the new city and having hte new stuff" is all the bang you need - if you set it up with some encouraging displays... without touching the horde at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcyMu8BX...png&name=large

    You know this is never going to happen right?. These are "Void Elves"....
    Why won't it happen because they are void elves? I'm not following.

  9. #24329
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    You know this is never going to happen right?. These are "Void Elves"....
    Dude for real it's not our job to pay you any attention.

    Like let's the insanity of you saying "so unbelievable for a Void Elf to have braids and blonde hair" and then the racial leader is Alleria Windrunner.

    Like please sir, this is a Wendy's.

  10. #24330
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    Alleria Windrunner is a High elf, not a Blood elf.
    Lore:
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Void_elf
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Alleria_Windrunner

    Their origins lie with a group of blood elves led by Magister Umbric who were exiled from Silvermoon City

    Please stop turning "Void Elves" into High Elves, they are not.
    Alleria is literally a High Elf that became a Void Elf -she is, again, literally, called a Void Elf in literature and in game- As if both Blood Elves and High Elves can become Void Elves because they have basically the same biology.

    It's Outstanding how you keep being "but the lore" and have absolutely no grasp of... common sense or critical thinking, because your argument is so dense you are basically saying Void Elves will die out the moment that original group is gone? Because for some reason, there can't be another way of making Void Elves.

    Despite Alleria literally becoming a Void Elf in a completely different manner.

    Babe... BABE.

  11. #24331
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    And because Alleria is now a Void elf, that makes the Blood elves that turned into Void elves now High elves?....I dont get it. Your logic seems weird....
    Babe it's not hard to understand:

    -Both High Elves and Blood Elves can become Void Elves.
    -You don't have to turn blue to become a Void Elf

    I don't remember the Mag'har orcs having the same hair color as the Orgrimmar orcs, or the other way around....
    You say that like it is a positive; despite Shadowmoon orcs being presented often with purple hair, when Maghar became playable they don't have the option.

    Why is this "But because Alleria is a High elf....now all the rest of the Void elves are now High elves..." crap sounds so wrong?. Simple, because the "Void elves" we use used to be Blood elves, now turned into "Void elves".

    So nop, those are not High elves. The High Elves are those who are stranded in Outland, Hinterlands, Loch modan, etc...Those few. Those ARE High elves

    Why are you giving Void elves, High elf features, if they are not even High elves?. They used to be Blood elves, but not anymore. They turned forever into purple elves.
    It sounds so wrong because YOU KEEP MISSING THE POINT. JFC, Even if Alleria *looks* like a High Elf, she is a Void Elf. How do you not get that?

    "Why are you giving Void elves, High elf features, if they are not even High elves?" Is the zenith of how obtuse your opinion is, because, again:

    Alleria is literally a Void Elf that looks like a High Elf.

    Please, PLEASE, tell me you have the capacity to understand the point even if you disagree with the aesthetic choice that Void Elves should be able to look like Alleria.

  12. #24332
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    - Both an Orgrimmar Orc and a Mag'har orc cant become one another. And so your elves are no longer the same.
    - Shadowmoon orcs are not on the list of "rescued orcs" from Draenor past.
    https://www.wowhead.com/npc=144320/maghar-darkcaster

    Sure Jan, the Maghar Darkcasters are TOTALLY NOT SHADOWMOON ORCS, despite Maghar being a coalition of ALL the maghar left after the War.

    - Alleria is not a Blood elf. She was a High elf. Your playable Void elf used to be a Blood elf.
    - Alleria used to be a High elf living in space, and turned into a Void Elf by absorbing a Dark Naru.
    - Your playable "Void Elf" is a Blood elf turned into a Void elf by a ritual. He/She is no longer a Blood elf. Now is something new....
    And yet both the playable character and Alleria are both now Void Elves, as if the manner of conversion is not what makes you a Void Elf on the first place.

    The whole point is we are talking about how Void Elves could/should recruit more members to not die out, thus, we are talking about other ways of becoming a Void Elf.

    It's like you keep forgetting WHY we are talking about this on the first place FFS.

    You are literally like that Patrick Star meme.

  13. #24333
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    - Not a single feature from the Shadowmoon clan there.

    - They cant recruit new members because they cant recreate the ritual that turned them into Void Elves.

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    Like you making Blonde Void elves...so weird dude. Play Blood elves and be done with it.



    If Blizzard dropped this bomb on you and you didnt like it, its up to you. I like them purple, its original. Blonde...? I would play a Blood elf instead.
    Firstly, lolwut? For one, they have both the skin color -and- armor, and for two, the only association they have with the Void is through the Shadowmoon!

    Secondly, there is no evidence they couldn’t recreate the process. It’s just 1. Turn them into creatures of the Void, and 2. Cancel the process halfway through.

  14. #24334
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    - Not a single feature from the Shadowmoon clan there.
    *sigh*

    - They cant recruit new members because they cant recreate the ritual that turned them into Void Elves.
    I guess they'll die out then.

    Like you making Blonde Void elves...so weird dude. Play Blood elves and be done with it.

    If Blizzard dropped this bomb on you and you didnt like it, its up to you. I like them purple, its original. Blonde...? I would play a Blood elf instead.
    It's like you are asking us to be as limited as you. Because you can't see beyond what VE's are right now, no one should. And that is just... sad.

    Also I do play a Blood Elf as well? How is that a gotcha? Some of us play more than one character, Steve.

    Now, this an entire new race, called "High Elves", that are not available, because i bet Blizzard doesnt know how to make them. This was the original post after all.

    But what you guys want is: "Lets turn the Void elves into High elves, because fuck it!, i want it!". And i don't think that is how Blizzard plays with it.
    Wow I can't BELIEVE in here we talk about High Elves and also about Void Elves, and anything in between.

    Do you GET the conversation, tho? Like, be honest. A lot of the arguments I make are about how we could fold in some HE aesthetics into VE's -like Alleria does- as a way to move VE's forward by allowing them to recruit HE's to replenish their numbers, thus also maintaining some of the HE themes alive.

    All you bring to the conversation is "AKSHUALLY VOID ELVES ARE ONLY THE ONES MADE BY THAT RITUAL" And it's like, such a basic grasp of what we are even talking as a whole.

    Like yes, you can totally want VE's aesthetic to remain as is, that's perfectly valid; but instead of saying that, you keep making the dumbest arguments, to the point you seem to want the Void Elves to die out.

  15. #24335
    I am Murloc! Geisl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Exactly; if anything, Night Elves options prove how much variety a toggle option can add for hairstyles, I'd really like to see more of it across the board, and tentacles is a natural choice for the VE model.

    Not only because it gives us more tentacle-less options, but because we could ALSO have tentacles on the hairstyles that don't have them!
    Night Elves options also show they didn't stick to one aesthetic (purple elf with purple/blue/green hair). You can make pretty pale/tan NEs along with some almost charcoalish ones too. Broadening their aesthetics has done nothing but good for allowing players to express themselves how they see fit!

  16. #24336
    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    Night Elves options also show they didn't stick to one aesthetic (purple elf with purple/blue/green hair). You can make pretty pale/tan NEs along with some almost charcoalish ones too. Broadening their aesthetics has done nothing but good for allowing players to express themselves how they see fit!
    Honestly, if Night Elves can have a shade of blonde hair, then any arguments against Void Elves having it go right out the window.

  17. #24337
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    *A lot of the arguments I make are about how we could fold in some HE aesthetics into VE's -like Alleria does- as a way to move VE's forward by allowing them to recruit HE's to replenish their numbers.
    Exactly this here. We’ve been discussing in our Void Elf Discord (https://discord.gg/8m9wDrqk) and we all pretty much agree that natural customization options such as regular hair colors and hairstyles are a given for Void Elves. In essencse, they’re not a different race from Blood/High Elves, they haven’t changed their culture whatsoever.

    We could argue that the first generation of Void Elves, those who accidentally turned blue, are biologically different or not, but here’s the thing - they’re still the same Blood/High Elves they were before the accident.

    If they find the way of dying their hair, quite a few will do it. We have to remember we’re talking about a narcissistic race in general terms who believe in the importance of keeping up appearances.

    Anyway, we’ve proposed several stuff for Void Elves, both regular and voidy customizations, on the EU forums, in case anyone’s interested and/or wants to help us with our cause:

    BODY:

    Void tattoos
    Wider range of Voidy skin tones, including a mix of regular and Void-infused skin tones, as in the following image: https://i.imgur.com/3zuCYG1.jpg
    FACE:

    Void scars
    Black eyes
    Variety of Voidy make-up (for males as well, this is 2021, Blizz!)
    Variety of Voidy jewelry (ditto)
    Range of ear lengths
    Third eye on the forehead (although cool, I doubt this is even possible)
    Small tentacles for beards and moustaches
    HAIR:

    Wider range of Voidy hair colors, including black and white
    Voidy hair highlights
    Void braids, this could be like combining normal hair with a tentacle
    The option to toggle on/off tentacles on any hairstyle, and diversity as well in terms of size and color
    A full-tentacled hairstyle, like Medusa in Greek mythology, but tentacles instead of snakes.
    OTHER CUSTOMIZATIONS:

    More variety of Entropic Embrace skin tones, giving us the ability to choose one whenever it procs.
    Let us customize our Spatial Rift racial - I personally would prefer to open a Void portal (like Alleria does) to teleport instead of that almost indiscernable floating Shadow ball. We could also simply disappear and appear using a special Voidy ‘teleportation’ effect.
    This won’t probably happen, but it would be nice if we could change the color of our class spells to dark purple, so as to show we’re using our class powers infused by the Void. Hunters should have the option to transmog their bows in a way that arrows look dark and gloomy when shooting at a foe.
    Not really a customization, but please develop some more lore for Void Elves? Show how they are training new recruits, explain how’s the new Void infusion process, make Umbric show up more frequently, not just Alleria, convert a few more High Elves, especially from the Silver Covenant, show a possible conflict of interest between Alleria and her sister Vereesa in this sense, etc.
    Popular demand asks for more regular hair colors, such as brown, black, grey, white or blond, as well as normal-looking hairstyles. They could always include some sort of Void highlight if Blizzard considers they should look different from Blood Elf hair options.
    Quite a few players have been asking for drastic Void customizations, such as a K’thir face option or tentacles sprouting out of the stomach. I personally don’t think it makes sense, as Void Elves are supposed to master the Void precisely to avoid further undesirable or odd consequences. But that’s just me.
    FURTHER IDEAS AND VISUAL EXAMPLES:

    https://i.imgur.com/D0BJ2st.jpg
    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment..._option_ideas/
    https://twitter.com/Wowhead/status/1...589440/photo/1
    https://i.imgur.com/T2wuYNh.jpg

    EU thread: https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...athread/290261
    Void Elf Discord: https://discord.gg/8m9wDrqk
    Timelord Leinadh, Grand Magister of the Telogrus Rift Void Elf Discord Server.
    Follow Alleria's path into the shadows and meet other Void Elf fans:
    https://discord.gg/rrnYkMHuXp


  18. #24338
    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    Night Elves options also show they didn't stick to one aesthetic (purple elf with purple/blue/green hair). You can make pretty pale/tan NEs along with some almost charcoalish ones too. Broadening their aesthetics has done nothing but good for allowing players to express themselves how they see fit!
    That's one thing that's a huge limitation of how AR's are envisioned, they really have very limited aesthetics across the board. With some of them it isn't as big of an issue because their core race exists in the same faction so at least there's more illusion of variety, yet still races like LFD are notoriously limited to a palette that just feels uncreative, despite the rest of the draenei options being available on the alliance.

    Then we have the case of NB and VE, where the limitations are jarring because their CR are on a different faction, so the illusion of choice is not there. So they feel aesthetically limited in a way that just runs against variety and choice, and instead of an additional flavor, they feel like an incomplete experience standing on their own. Because as races, within the setting, their limited variance just makes them feel artificial, not as members of a world that evolves and changes. They don't feel like "races" but as an offshoot of a real race, unable to exist on their own.

    Which it is the place VE are within their lore. So I really hope they are able to recruit more members, and thus, add more diversification to their members, as elves from different backgrouns are able to join. Both an in universe and player agency/choice movement.

  19. #24339
    Say what you will about HElves haters, but damn they're are persistent. They've lost BElves models and skin tones, but are still fighting for hair color, even though compared to the loss of BElves models, it's not that big of a deal tbh.

  20. #24340
    I am Murloc! Geisl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FossilFree View Post
    Honestly, if Night Elves can have a shade of blonde hair, then any arguments against Void Elves having it go right out the window.
    When the race customizations came in Shadowlands, Blizzard's MO became "we want to increase the diversity of options so players can look like the fantasies they wish to play in game." Something like that anyway, it's honestly tiring to always go look up the exact wording of when/where it was said.

    So honestly the requests people make for their favorite races are all valid, especially the ones that make sense from a lore pov imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    That's one thing that's a huge limitation of how AR's are envisioned, they really have very limited aesthetics across the board. With some of them it isn't as big of an issue because their core race exists in the same faction so at least there's more illusion of variety, yet still races like LFD are notoriously limited to a palette that just feels uncreative, despite the rest of the draenei options being available on the alliance.

    Then we have the case of NB and VE, where the limitations are jarring because their CR are on a different faction, so the illusion of choice is not there. So they feel aesthetically limited in a way that just runs against variety and choice, and instead of an additional flavor, they feel like an incomplete experience standing on their own. Because as races, within the setting, their limited variance just makes them feel artificial, not as members of a world that evolves and changes. They don't feel like "races" but as an offshoot of a real race, unable to exist on their own.

    Which it is the place VE are within their lore. So I really hope they are able to recruit more members, and thus, add more diversification to their members, as elves from different backgrouns are able to join. Both an in universe and player agency/choice movement.
    Yeah, very true, it's another case of Blizzard iterating upon a feature they pushed live when they didn't fully think it out. I think there's some people (not you) that also need to remember the only reason VEs got the customization they did is because their model/rigging is literally the same as their core race. It's why LF Draenei also got tail customization, mechagnomes got decoupled ears/jaws options, and mag'har got straight posture (you could even consider green orcs getting posture because they did posture for mag'har first).

    It would not have made sense for Blizzard to hold those back when they can slip those changes into related races at the same time. But people are acting like 'VE got their AR customization already!'. No they actually did not, they just got options because of the work already being done on BEs, there's a nuanced difference there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    Say what you will about HElves haters, but damn they're are persistent. They've lost BElves models and skin tones, but are still fighting for hair color, even though compared to the loss of BElves models, it's not that big of a deal tbh.
    They're actually not. There's only Necro here who is 'new blood'. The rest of the 'OG Helves haters' have pretty much left this thread alone now, Syegfred, Obelisk Kai, CombatButler, etc etc. But admittedly that's because those guys used to argue against VEs receiving blue eyes and human skin tones.

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