Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

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Truth be told, I don't wish blood elves to ever lose Silvermoon or Quel'thalas. They went through very dark times to rebuild their homeland, losing it would be just... well, not right. I can certainly imagine some sort of fight going on in QT, be it thalassian civil war or a void incursions which threatens Sunwell in the future void X light expansion, but sin'dorei should hold the city. It's up for high elves and void elves to build their new home.

I used to think that the most logical move for blood elves is to leave Horde. For years, they only contributed to Horde's Wars abroad, without Horde itself providing any real support for sin'dorei affairs. Farstriders had to invite Vereesa and alliance elves to assist them during Amani crisis, Ghostlands are still infested with undead during Three Sisters comic, so it seems Ghostlands are still not fully retaken after all these years. We've seen elves leaving the greater faction once they felt they have no use for the partnership, so basicaly, they should just leave the Horde after Sunwell's restoration (in which Horde did not play any major role to begin with) and maintain neutral position in the world. In the current story, Lor'themar being a part of Horde Council, he could finaly pull some real advantages for blood elves within the Horde. It can escalate into some political intrigues within the Horde. Quite good potential.

Obviously, blood elves will never leave Horde for gameplay reasons and I'm quite fine with that. I just like more refined stories and blood elves merging into the whole "lok'tar ogar" mentality does not feel right. I liked when their relations with other races were somewhat uneasy. It made more interesting stories, then just the monotonous boring "we are all best friends" tropes. It's not just the Horde's thing, Alliance's storytelling suffers the same issue.

I would rather vehemently disagree.

The Blood Elves have actually been quite consistently cucked by the Alliance and have held far more shaky relations with them than just about any other race. Kael openly rebelled against Garithos following his imprisonment by the Naga--add to this that the entire arc of the Blood Elves happened quite specifically because they were rejected by the Alliance and generally unable to negotiate with them. Indeed, the whole Thalassian storyline functionally happened because of a sequence of Humans deciding to be pricks, and the original High Elves themselves were also never particularly loyal to the Alliance--those that stayed loyal were the Farstriders on the frontlines, and the majority of Elves were the ones who ducked out after the Second War concluded.

Thematically, also, the Blood Elves haven't been chiefly "refined" for any of their history. They've mostly been addicts trying to recover and survive, which is a mentality which actually better meshes with the Horde, who are all in some sense survivors of odds stacked against them. The Alliance, on the other hand, are chiefly defined by the promotion of abstract moral ideals--the Blood Elves don't really have those as a central tenet of their species. Even on a religious level, their relationship with the Light is active and physical, as opposed to the abstract level on which the Humans relate with it.

Add to this that the Blood Elves have remained far closer to the Horde over their history, including that they were carried farther and through far harder times by Horde allies. Lor'Themar all but actively admits this, even considering becoming Warchief for a time. It has to be clear that the Blood Elves population as a whole are far better fit for their existing faction, and I quite frankly think that joining the Horde was a good decision from the get-go. If you've played Curse of the Blood Elves in Warcraft III, you'll notice that a lot of the Blood Elves' rhetoric lined up with Thrall's Horde, save for being considerably more amoral and pragmatic.

The only real hurdle for the Blood Elves joining the Horde would've been bad blood with one or more of the races, and the only one that ever did serious damage to Quel'Thalas would be the Trolls, and not even the Trolls that the Horde actually employs anymore. The Alliance was overall more oppressive and antagonistic to the Blood Elves--on a more macro level, it become evident why, and the Alliance are clearly not complete aggressors. However, Garithos' actions would've been enough to sour most Blood Elves, since he actively imprisoned them after giving them an unwinnable battle; when news of this reached Quel'Thalas, it is likely the Blood Elves would have blamed the Alliance more than anyone else. Younger Blood Elves would chiefly remember the Horde as the ones who bailed them out and gave them assistance in returning civilization to Quel'Thalas, whilst older Blood Elves would likely still hold a grudge against Garithos and the other members of the Alliance who made their journey to restoration so difficult. Ironically, the only strong connection the Blood Elves still have with the Alliance is with the Draenei, who were responsible for restoring the Sunwell--in this sense, it is only the new members of the Alliance who are considered particularly benign by the Blood Elves through their history.

Finally, the Blood Elves actually sticking by a faction is indicative of increasing maturity as a race. The High Elves who stuck with the Alliance were bailed out of the destruction of Quel'Thalas because they demonstrated more loyalty than the Blood Elves who simply retreated behind their shield. In this sense, it would mirror that by having the Blood Elves sticking to the Horde reward them, showing how far they've come and how they've been humbled. The Nightborne can take the role of the big, arrogant Elves now--the Blood Elves are pretty clearly at a new spot in their arc, and the days of being regal, haughty nobility behind a shield has long past.

[Valandale]

The most High Elven Traditionalist involvement I see happening in Quel'thalas is pilgrimages to the Sunwell or political dissonance. Maaaybe if they redo the zones I can see the night elves being replaced by a High Elf/Void Elf guerilla faction trying to retake Quel'thalas with or without actual alliance sanction. Either way it would reinforce Blood elves politically remaining with the Horde, and it would bring an actual new story to the area. The Ghostlands might be mostly Scourge free with just the area around deatholme and windrunner spire being scourged or even have a nod to the San'layn at Windrunner spire. While the northwest may have the guerillas active and the east have an amani assault. Suncrown could be retaken but have infiltrators from the guerillas as a small quest line but still show the ghostlands as being repopulated outside of the farstrider lodge and Tranquilien.

Outside of QT, I could see Alleria putting out a call to arms to the exiled high elves to rally under them to reclaim Quel'thalas and end the diaspora. Vereesa could support her or be conflicted about it, after all, she HAS worked with the blood elven farstriders several times. Maybe they'd get some military stronghold somewhere ala Feathermoon Stronghold. Either way there's good story here that doesn't require inane ideas about faction displacement, we've had enough of that with BfA and Cata, just rebuild or begin something new for once.

[Edoll]

Didn’t the Blood Elves try to rejoin the Alliance twice in WoW’s life time? One was in MoP, before Jaina kicked them out of Dalaran. Was there a second time in Legion? BFA?

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Didn’t the Blood Elves try to rejoin the Alliance twice in WoW’s life time? One was in MoP, before Jaina kicked them out of Dalaran. Was there a second time in Legion? BFA?

Only once, and the Purge of Dalaran squandered any potential for the Blood Elves to rejoin the Alliance.

[ravenmoon]

I'm not against the Blood Elves losing the Sunwell to void incursions or maybe to Queen Azshara - she could view the Sunwell as a gateway for the Void and she destroys it.
If we get a racial pride expansion and for some of the quests, our classes matter, Blood Elf Mages and Blood Elf Warlocks could work with Rommath and go to Outland to get Blood Crystals, which could tap into the leylines of Quel'Thalas and sustain the Sin'dorei. A Large Blood Crystal could be teleported to where the Sunwell was based and used by Rommath and Astalor to "attach" it to the leylines...maybe even get their Nightborne friends (Valtrois), to help them with this.
The Warlocks could gather Fel Crystals and Arcane Crystals to go into the Ruins of Silvermoon, which would restore that portion of the city and sustain the people, in the immediate. That way @ravenmoon, could still get his "bad boy, Horde Blood Elves" and I still get to have Quel'Thalas and Silvermoon.
(Obviously, the Blood Knights and Priests will do their questlines with Liadrin - perhaps lead an effort to hunt down Azshara. The Farstriders could do their thing with Halduron if the Amani returned and began wielding the Void.)

Now Lor'themar is basically leading the Horde Council at the moment, which is good because he is one who deserves to show his leadership. He's patient and calm - he doesn't shout and scream, but he gets the job done. Calia Menethil seems to see him as the leader as she reports to him about what is going on, in the Shadowlands.

The horde is really kinda feeling like the alliance.

I just wonder if this is the right thing fir the franchise and for the lore.

mm it might be heaven for blood elf fans who sadly still don’t realise that they are alliances on the horde because of the blood elves and having that human elf and alliance connection replicated and the centre of the horde with their favourite race leading instead of being removed I’m sure feels very exciting.

But is it?

anyway. I think they should worry about writing good stories than trying to balance fans sensibilities. Just make sure the when you take the races through shit. You also bring them up with things even better than before.

still waiting fir the kaldorei’s better than before. Although pre sundering would be hard to beat. They don’t have to get there. You can be in a better state without being a super empire.

Blood elves did become better after wc3 from the wc3 story. Not pre-scourge level restored , but you can see many good developments and advancements over the high elf state.

Now the high elf side and the new void elf outcasts, are like the night elves still in no man’s land after their suffering.

It is no wonder I spend more time suggesting and imagining ways they can get better than before, but so far blizzard just seems interested in showing them suffer.

I’m sick of it, so I quit.

[Tanaria]

Blood elves did become better after wc3 from the wc3 story. Not pre-scourge level restored , but you can see many good developments and advancements over the high elf state.

Good developments? Like, I'm still waiting for the Blood Elves to come out of their 2007 starter zone and into the current decade.

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Now the high elf side and the new void elf outcasts, are like the night elves still in no man’s land after their suffering.

It is no wonder I spend more time suggesting and imagining ways they can get better than before, but so far blizzard just seems interested in showing them suffer.

I’m sick of it, so I quit.

They can go to Telogrus and learn to become more Void Elves.

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The horde is really kinda feeling like the alliance.

I just wonder if this is the right thing fir the franchise and for the lore.

mm it might be heaven for blood elf fans who sadly still don’t realise that they are alliances on the horde because of the blood elves and having that human elf and alliance connection replicated and the centre of the horde with their favourite race leading instead of being removed I’m sure feels very exciting.

I'm not "Alliance", nor have I ever played Alliance in any great detail. As @Le Conceptual has said, the Blood Elves have earned their place on the Horde. Lets not forget that the device that destroyed Theramore was a Sin'dorei creation.

The Sin'dorei bring real Elves from mythology to life.
And when you say "instead of being removed", that is basically you confirming Rhlor's point. You want the Horde Elven story to be totally finished. They have everything taken away from them, no future story, no lore characters - they become forgotten.

Guess what pal - you can still have your "Kaldorei Rise" and "Quel'dorei greatness" without it hindering Sin'dorei and Shal'dorei lore progression. Proof - 8.1, with Darkshore and the Sin'dorei Heritage Armor questline.

Also, we're not even dealing with Lor'themar in this current story. Hell, the main "Horde" characters we've seen in the Shadowlands have been Thrall, Baine and even Sylvanas (debatable, but she has been Horde for most of WoW's life.)

[Varodoc]

Didn’t the Blood Elves try to rejoin the Alliance twice in WoW’s life time? One was in MoP, before Jaina kicked them out of Dalaran. Was there a second time in Legion? BFA?

They did not necessarily try to rejoin the Alliance in BfA, but Theron joined forces with the Alliance to free Baine and fight Sylvanas; and specifically in the Azshara raid he was fighting alongside Jaina Proudmoore and Shandris Feathermoon.

For all the talk about "Horde loyalty" on the forums, the story tells us quite clearly that the Blood elves are not afraid of joining forces with the Alliance.

Against the lawful Warchief of the Horde.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

God, I hope the new hair colors come out soon so we can veer away from this endless "where to the elves belong" conversation.

The only real hurdle for the Blood Elves joining the Horde would've been bad blood with one or more of the races, and the only one that ever did serious damage to Quel'Thalas would be the Trolls, and not even the Trolls that the Horde actually employs anymore.

Not that I disagree with your overall point -personally I would say that every decision since BC has brought the BE and the Horde closer and closer, and the only moment they actually considered leaving was during MoP and we know how all that went. And it was after Garrosh their place on the Horde further cemented itself-

But the orcs themselves also attacked the borders of Quel'thalas. It wasn't just the Forest Trolls on their own, Orgrim Doomhamer himself lead the Horde during the attack.

What group they chose to forgive has less to do with "who caused them more harm" and more about the politics, and let's not forget that one of the main reasons Blood Elves have risen again is because of their political cunning.

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Against the lawful Warchief of the Horde.

Every Race on the Horde went against the "lawful Warchief of the Horde". This argument is like a fart in the wind.

[Varodoc]

The horde is really kinda feeling like the alliance.

Because they have a "council" of sorts? That's the only similarity I see.

Otherwise the Horde is still a filthy throng filled mostly with monsters

[Varx]

Love how there's been posts here with helfers STILL not being 100% happy with the changes. "Please give us entropic embrace glyph". And in the general forums there's still people asking for velf paladins.


It's amazing how helfers are never EVER saistified. Mark my words, if you blizz caves in and gives you paladins, which is as dumb as giving maghar orcs warlocks, and an entropic embrace glyph, the next demand will be to give velves their own heritage armor and mount. Until finally we'll have helfers demanding to just change the name of the race so they dont have to use add ons anymore.

How does it feel to play a race with no real identity? You only have yourselves to blame. Could have had an awesome monstrous void race but now your stuck with a diluted that doesn't know what it really is.

Then again you got Alleria who identifies as a velf and she's as "pure" as you're gonna get so ultimately, you are velves and NOT helves, as per Alleria. Regardless, what a clown race that had so much potential then gets destroyed by an ungrateful player base who cant accept that high elves went on to be a core horde race and that the silver covenant is just a small alliance subgroup of npc's who should just have been npc's. Just like Horde kultirans or alliance goblins.

[Varodoc]

Love how there's been posts here with helfers STILL not being 100% happy with the changes. "Please give us entropic embrace glyph". And in the general forums there's still people asking for velf paladins.


It's amazing how helfers are never EVER saistified. Mark my words, if you blizz caves in and gives you paladins, which is as dumb as giving maghar orcs warlocks, and an entropic embrace glyph, the next demand will be to give velves their own heritage armor and mount. Until finally we'll have helfers demanding to just change the name of the race so they dont have to use add ons anymore.

How does it feel to play a race with no real identity? You only have yourselves to blame. Could have had an awesome monstrous void race but now your stuck with a diluted that doesn't know what it really is.

Then again you got Alleria who identifies as a velf and she's as "pure" as you're gonna get so ultimately, you are velves and NOT helves, as per Alleria. Regardless, what a clown race that had so much potential then gets destroyed by an ungrateful player base who cant accept that high elves went on to be a core horde race and that the silver covenant is just a small alliance subgroup of npc's who should just have been npc's. Just like Horde kultirans or alliance goblins.

Actually I feel joyful, thanks for asking. Finally someone who cares about my joy in this thread filled only with hatred.

I am indeed joyful that the Ren'dorei have finally gotten fair skin options and blonde hair like their leader Alleria Windrunner, after 4 years of me asking Blizzard to put these options in the game.

For it is indeed an ability that the Ren'dorei have, to conceal their true form under a fair disguise. Like Alleria does after all.

[Varx]

Actually I feel joyful, thanks for asking. Finally someone who cares about my joy in this thread filled only with hatred.

I am indeed joyful that the Ren'dorei have finally gotten fair skin options and blonde hair like their leader Alleria Windrunner, after 4 years of me asking Blizzard to put these options in the game.

For it is indeed an ability that the Ren'dorei have, to conceal their true form under a fair disguise. Like Alleria does after all.

That has not been shown by any velf other than Alleria and she had a unique transformation, so no you're wrong. But hey at least you admit you're not playing a high elf, so good for you.

There's still helfers asking for more but again, good for you on your happiness.

[Wired-Lain]

Love how there's been posts here with helfers STILL not being 100% happy with the changes. "Please give us entropic embrace glyph". And in the general forums there's still people asking for velf paladins.


It's amazing how helfers are never EVER saistified. Mark my words, if you blizz caves in and gives you paladins, which is as dumb as giving maghar orcs warlocks, and an entropic embrace glyph, the next demand will be to give velves their own heritage armor and mount. Until finally we'll have helfers demanding to just change the name of the race so they dont have to use add ons anymore.

Sounds good to me!

[elbleuet]

I have to say...

I'm satisfied with High elves being playable in the Alliance.

[Wired-Lain]

"you are velves and NOT helves"

"the silver covenant is just a small alliance subgroup of npc's who should just have been npc's."

Favorite part I think. Sounds like they aren't "just npcs" anymore right? As for changing the name of the race? Sure why not, gives them a greater ragtag exile vibe to contrast with the unified blood elf identity. Good idea! The more nuance and customizable player identity the better if you ask me.



Such a thing could also expand to Wildhammer Dwarves and other 'subrace' customizations we have.

[Varx]

I have to say...

I'm satisfied with High elves being playable in the Alliance.

Can you make a paladin then? If not then explain why you can't.

[Wired-Lain]

Can you make a paladin then? If not then explain why you can't.

Can you make any of these? Explain why you can't

[Rootsbum]

Can you make a paladin then? If not then explain why you can't.

Man, get out. You have pulled thoose same sentences on countless other people and nobody gives a damn.
People are able to RP as real highelves now and who gives a damn about thoose paladins you keep yapping about or being purple for 10 sec every third minute in battle
Heck, my rogues glow purple
My hunters glow red
My warrior turns grey
My shammy green

Whatever

Shoo!

[Swnem]

Love how there's been posts here with helfers STILL not being 100% happy with the changes. "Please give us entropic embrace glyph". And in the general forums there's still people asking for velf paladins.


It's amazing how helfers are never EVER saistified. Mark my words, if you blizz caves in and gives you paladins, which is as dumb as giving maghar orcs warlocks, and an entropic embrace glyph, the next demand will be to give velves their own heritage armor and mount. Until finally we'll have helfers demanding to just change the name of the race so they dont have to use add ons anymore.

How does it feel to play a race with no real identity? You only have yourselves to blame. Could have had an awesome monstrous void race but now your stuck with a diluted that doesn't know what it really is.

Then again you got Alleria who identifies as a velf and she's as "pure" as you're gonna get so ultimately, you are velves and NOT helves, as per Alleria. Regardless, what a clown race that had so much potential then gets destroyed by an ungrateful player base who cant accept that high elves went on to be a core horde race and that the silver covenant is just a small alliance subgroup of npc's who should just have been npc's. Just like Horde kultirans or alliance goblins.

Why not velf paladin? There's shadow priest lightforged draenei and velf holy priest.
I don't see a reason for there not to be.

I don't care about the glyph though. I think they are still void elves and i like entropic embrace, but having the high elf look is cool and velf feels like an extension of the high elves. I also like to think the high elves/void elves came to telogrus rift to upgrade themselves and be more and explore a future for their people with the alliance.
But, i don't have an obsession to deny others their customization options and i don't see why it's a problem.

[Varx]

Can you make any of these? Explain why you can't

I'm not against further expansion of race and class combos wher it makes sense. Velves do not make sense. But sure...

Nelf Paladin: After the legion pally campaign they should and most likely will be a future combo.

Belf Druid: Honestly I think it's a cultural thing, thalassian elves aren't really into druidism but it wouldn't be so farfetched.

Undead Paladin: Cant be a paladin for the same reason velves cant. Paladins are imbued with light unlike priests who just channel the light. Undead and velf holyy priest wield teh light with immense willpower as it causes them pain. This has already been explained.

Sir zeleak is one of those few special cases, like Calia. If anything he'd prob a similar case to calia. They're not your average undead like player forsaken are.

Gnome Paladin: Will probably happen

Goblin Monk: The reason why cob and worgen couldn't be monks was because their intro was during cata era, in which monks were not widespread yet since teh events of mop hadn't occurred. That being said, with exile's reach those two races will probably be monks in the future.