Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Wired-Lain]

Why exactly are posters on this thread talking for pages and pages about Ren'dorei paladins being "lore breaking" when the Twilight's Hammer Cult, the Cult worshipping the Old Gods and the coming of the Hour of Twilight, employed rogue paladins in their ranks?

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Twilight_Vindicator

These are paladins named "Vindicators" (a name used in Draenei society to refer to paladins), they are dressed like paladins, fight like paladins, and use paladin abilities. And they are part of a cult that worships the Void and live in the Void wasteland known as the Bastion of Twilight, infused and clouded in perpetual darkness.

Yet they are still paladins.

So Ren'dorei paladins would be lore-breaking because... ?????????

If Blizzard ever feels like adding a bunch of new race-class options like they did in Cataclysm, Void elf Paladins will become playable, bookmark this post for the future.

Void elves sell, Paladins sell, the fantasy of a "Dark Paladin" sells, the lore allows this (Twilight Vindicators), there's not much left to be said on the subject.

Agreed. And honestly even without them I've always been in favor of expanding the concept of "Paladin" to a general religious knight of whatever faith. Rather than limiting it to "the light" (and thereby watering down the religions of various races to off-brand humans) a "paladin" is simply a warrior empowered by their faith. Be that the holy light, elune, a loa or even the void. Having for instance, the cult of forgotten shadow take up a martial stance similar to the WC2 paladins, except with shadow magic, would be really interesting to me. Much more than just making zandalari prelates into holy light worshippers brandishing big human bibles.

The abilities can easily be reskinned for different themes and allows for a lot more class/race combos that fit naturally into the respective races culture and identity. With a glyph or customization toggle for things like high elf customization. Its a win/win to me.

On that note, void elf shamans would also work, given we've seen void/shadow users twisting the elements to work for them plenty of times through the twilight hammer and the dark shamans.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_shaman
With an optional vanilla glyph this would also fit into the high elf fantasy, since its always been that the high elves and wildhammer clan were very close, closer than they were with humans according to WC2. Having them learn from the dwarves would make a very unique hook for an elf to me.

[Vaedan]

On that note, void elf shamans would also work, given we've seen void/shadow users twisting the elements to work for them plenty of times through the twilight hammer and the dark shamans.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_shaman
With an optional vanilla glyph this would also fit into the high elf fantasy, since its always been that the high elves and wildhammer clan were very close, closer than they were with humans according to WC2. Having them learn from the dwarves would make a very unique hook for an elf to me.

Actually I'm way more interested in an elf shaman concept then a elf paladin concept which we know since TBC. Not that it works very well with both void elf and high elf archetypes through dark shaman / elementalist vibes, it also gives another distinction from blood elves and offers us new unique elf combo (blood elves being only elf paladins, night elves being only elf druids and void elves would be only elf shaman). Also one more shaman combo for the Alliance.

I'm not saying void elf paladins are not interesting or cool, but this seems more interesting thing to explore.

[Wired-Lain]

Actually I'm way more interested in an elf shaman concept then a elf paladin concept which we know since TBC. Not that it works very well with both void elf and high elf archetypes through dark shaman / elementalist vibes, it also gives another distinction from blood elves and offers us new unique elf combo (blood elves being only elf paladins, night elves being only elf druids and void elves would be only elf shaman). Also one more shaman combo for the Alliance.

I'm not saying void elf paladins are not interesting or cool, but this seems more interesting thing to explore.

Yeah agreed. An elven shaman is something completely new and isn't represented anywhere else and contrasts them a lot more heavily with the city livin belfs. Much more interesting than just another druid or paladin combo.

[Vaedan]

Yeah agreed. An elven shaman is something completely new and isn't represented anywhere else and contrasts them a lot more heavily with the city livin belfs. Much more interesting than just another druid or paladin combo.

Well, not only that it can go for the Farstrider/Wildhammer vibes of a woodland elf, it somewhat reminds me of Tolkien's elves. Elrond had a ring Vilya (an Air ring), Galadriel had Nenya (a Water ring) and Celebrimbor, later Gandalf had Narya (a Fire ring), whose gave their wearers a degree of power of the chosen element, though we've never seen that in movies.

Also remember resto shaman artifact, which was a scepter of Queen Azshara with powers over element of water. In a way, elf shaman could be regarded as a kind of elementalist mage, in a similar way tauren priests and paladins are actually druids revering Sun. In that interpretation, enhancement shaman could be kind of Spellblades, who use magic imbued magics in close combat.

[Wired-Lain]

Well, not only that it can go for the Farstrider/Wildhammer vibes of a woodland elf, it somewhat reminds me of Tolkien's elves. Elrond had a ring Vilya (an Air ring), Galadriel had Nenya (a Water ring) and Celebrimbor, later Gandalf had Narya (a Fire ring), whose gave their wearers a degree of power of the chosen element, though we've never seen that in movies.

Also remember resto shaman artifact, which was a scepter of Queen Azshara with powers over element of water. In a way, elf shaman could be regarded as a kind of elementalist mage, in a similar way tauren priests and paladins are actually druids revering Sun. In that interpretation, enhancement shaman could be kind of Spellblades, who use magic imbued magics in close combat.

Theres also this guy, who I sort of interpret as something of a shaman. At least an elementalist.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Earthcaller_Franzahl

[FossilFree]

Void paladins and void shamans would both be really cool! I'd take either, but preferably both.

[Varodoc]

There's no need to be picky, both Paladin and Shaman can be given to the Ren'dorei. Like how both Warlock and Druid were given to the trolls in Cataclysm.

And Yes by the way, there is also a precedent of the Void being used to control elements. Refer to the Dark Shamans that Garrosh employed.

There is also a precedent of a playable race that doesn't cooperate with the elements, but straight up enslaves and twists them: the Dark Irons.

[Alanar]

I don't understand why it's suddenly an issue why exclusivity is a problem. Every race has it's thing or feature and that should be a motivator for the player to choose that race. Every race needs the same skin colors or same eyes or same antlers is imo just rediculous when a race you choose should be exciting, because you like that race because X.

Hyjacking or boycotting other people wishes or suggestions is just sad, but please me real.. when we live in a world of warcraft where costumization options are still sparse and because of that certain features just matter more, because without it.. it's just X. Because of that you shouldnt forget that a certain feature is or should be tide to a race, because it makes that race different compared to the other. Now what those features are and what should be traded and what not is a fair discussion imo.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Actually I'm way more interested in an elf shaman concept then a elf paladin concept which we know since TBC. Not that it works very well with both void elf and high elf archetypes through dark shaman / elementalist vibes, it also gives another distinction from blood elves and offers us new unique elf combo (blood elves being only elf paladins, night elves being only elf druids and void elves would be only elf shaman). Also one more shaman combo for the Alliance.

I'm not saying void elf paladins are not interesting or cool, but this seems more interesting thing to explore.

I'm on the same boat:

Like I would honestly prefer a High Elf Paladin -my main used to be that- but from a holistic level I just truly believe Void Elf Shamans are a far more interesting concept.

-We already have the idea of Dark Shamans, and I'd love to see that explored further, even in a more positive manner.

-"Shamanism" for void elves could tie more with the idea of Elementalism rather than connection with the ancestors; or even as cool, connection to the elements/spirits of worlds ravaged by the void.

-There's just this deep connection between the void and the elements, we have seen it with Deathwing and the Tidesages of Kul'Tiras. Again, to explore that on a more positive manner would be very interesting.

-And what it would do for High Elf fantasy as well, cause it would just be neat if the Highvale elves, specially rangers, picked it up from the Wildhammer. Like it's funny that still basically the most relevant NPC of Quel'danil is a Wildhammer Dwarf.

I think it would simply just open a lot more fantasy and possibility for the thalassian elves than paladins would, it would make the VE/HE more than just pointy eared humans.

[FossilFree]

I'm on the same boat:

Like I would honestly prefer a High Elf Paladin -my main used to be that- but from a holistic level I just truly believe Void Elf Shamans are a far more interesting concept.

-We already have the idea of Dark Shamans, and I'd love to see that explored further, even in a more positive manner.

-"Shamanism" for void elves could tie more with the idea of Elementalism rather than connection with the ancestors; or even as cool, connection to the elements/spirits of worlds ravaged by the void.

-There's just this deep connection between the void and the elements, we have seen it with Deathwing and the Tidesages of Kul'Tiras. Again, to explore that on a more positive manner would be very interesting.

-And what it would do for High Elf fantasy as well, cause it would just be neat if the Highvale elves, specially rangers, picked it up from the Wildhammer. Like it's funny that still basically the most relevant NPC of Quel'danil is a Wildhammer Dwarf.

I think it would simply just open a lot more fantasy and possibility for the thalassian elves than paladins would, it would make the VE/HE more than just pointy eared humans.

An elf shaman would be quite fitting, seeing how elves are masters of magic. Even mages have two elemental specs, so why couldn't they learn to be shamans? High elves could have learned it in Highvale and Void Elves could have learned it from the void's connection to the elemental lords.

I'd imagine they assert control over the elements without entering into a contract, forcing their will upon them. It could even be like Lord of the Rings, with powerful artifacts giving them control over the elements, like the 3 elven rings did. Their totems could also be miniature versions of the runestones that surround Quel'thalas.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

An elf shaman would be quite fitting, seeing how elves are masters of magic. Even mages have two elemental specs, so why couldn't they learn to be shamans? High elves could have learned it in Highvale and Void Elves could have learned it from the void's connection to the elemental lords.

I'd imagine they assert control over the elements without entering into a contract, forcing their will upon them. It could even be like Lord of the Rings, with powerful artifacts giving them control over the elements, like the 3 elven rings did. Their totems could also be miniature versions of the runestones that surround Quel'thalas.

Could be, if they want to go for that more "bending the elements" kinda thing. Though I do think VE's should be portrayed overall more positively cause they already got going so much against them by using the void already, so I would kinda like if they had a more beneficial partnership with void touched elementals, like a "we have both being changed by the void" sort of deal.

And for High Elves is yeah, rangers very in tune with nature that learned it from the Wildhammer; like we see a lot of the ideas of more "nature" aligned rangers being about druidism, but I think that shamanism can really fit that idea of being one with nature, and enhancement could be very fun as a play on that idea of more of a wild ranger.

But yeah, I'm mostly about that idea of exploring elements touched by the void in a more positive manner rather than VE's being framed as "evil shamans" by bending the elements to their will, yanno?

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Also, it's kinda interesting that "Frostfencer Seraphi" is mostly a Paladin, so you could make the argument that there you have another HE paladin!

But yeah, the fact that he's a Frostfencer really makes me wish he was based more of a Frost DK heh. Would be a far better class set for a "Frostfencer"

[FossilFree]

Could be, if they want to go for that more "bending the elements" kinda thing. Though I do think VE's should be portrayed overall more positively cause they already got going so much against them by using the void already, so I would kinda like if they had a more beneficial partnership with void touched elementals, like a "we have both being changed by the void" sort of deal.

And for High Elves is yeah, rangers very in tune with nature that learned it from the Wildhammer; like we see a lot of the ideas of more "nature" aligned rangers being about druidism, but I think that shamanism can really fit that idea of being one with nature, and enhancement could be very fun as a play on that idea of more of a wild ranger.

But yeah, I'm mostly about that idea of exploring elements touched by the void in a more positive manner rather than VE's being framed as "evil shamans" by bending the elements to their will, yanno?

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Also, it's kinda interesting that "Frostfencer Seraphi" is mostly a Paladin, so you could make the argument that there you have another HE paladin!

But yeah, the fact that he's a Frostfencer really makes me wish he was based more of a Frost DK heh. Would be a far better class set for a "Frostfencer"

That's a good point, the Void Elves have overall tried to display a good use of void magic. Since the cosmic powers can be used for good or evil ends, there is no reason we can't see "good void" or "evil light."

I didn't know the frostfencer was supposed to be a paladin. That's cool to know! If that is the case, then maybe light wielding paladin Void Elves aren't so far fetched with the new High Elf customization options. It would be interesting to see a paladin that mixes frost magic into their attacks too.

[Vaedan]

An elf shaman would be quite fitting, seeing how elves are masters of magic. Even mages have two elemental specs, so why couldn't they learn to be shamans? High elves could have learned it in Highvale and Void Elves could have learned it from the void's connection to the elemental lords.

I'd imagine they assert control over the elements without entering into a contract, forcing their will upon them. It could even be like Lord of the Rings, with powerful artifacts giving them control over the elements, like the 3 elven rings did. Their totems could also be miniature versions of the runestones that surround Quel'thalas.

Exactly. There is always possibility for elven shaman to be actually special case of "elementalist mage", in a same way tauren priests and paladins are in fact druids worshiping Sun. We know that mages use arcane to bound elements. Restoration shaman artifact Sharas'dal is Queen Azshara's scepter, so it's of Highborne origin, the tradition of using elements in spellcasting is there. LotR vibes goes well with this.

You can also take the woodland approach of Quel'danil elves befriended with Wildhammers, attuning themselves to the world and its spirits. That would go really well too.

Last but not least, you have unexplored avenue of void touched control of element possible with original void elves, exploring their void powers for controlling the elements, leaning more towards dark shamanism.

I'm on the same boat:

Like I would honestly prefer a High Elf Paladin -my main used to be that- but from a holistic level I just truly believe Void Elf Shamans are a far more interesting concept.

-We already have the idea of Dark Shamans, and I'd love to see that explored further, even in a more positive manner.

-"Shamanism" for void elves could tie more with the idea of Elementalism rather than connection with the ancestors; or even as cool, connection to the elements/spirits of worlds ravaged by the void.

-There's just this deep connection between the void and the elements, we have seen it with Deathwing and the Tidesages of Kul'Tiras. Again, to explore that on a more positive manner would be very interesting.

-And what it would do for High Elf fantasy as well, cause it would just be neat if the Highvale elves, specially rangers, picked it up from the Wildhammer. Like it's funny that still basically the most relevant NPC of Quel'danil is a Wildhammer Dwarf.

I think it would simply just open a lot more fantasy and possibility for the thalassian elves than paladins would, it would make the VE/HE more than just pointy eared humans.

Well, I would like void elf paladins only if they came up with some creative lore attached to it, perhaps exploring the Naaru cycle of Light and Void. After all, Xal'atath whispers that Naaru are beloved siblings who lost their sight when you enter Netherlight Temple and there are more hints to the dynamics of Light and Void, which in fact seem to be kind of Yin and Yang of the universe. Other than that, I'm not really interested in standard paladin approach within the Alliance. Give us something new.

Shamanism on the other hand seem like something really unique on elves. It gives new inch for the elves and for the shamanism as well, so win win.

[Rhlor]

Void paladins and void shamans would both be really cool! I'd take either, but preferably both.

Nightmare druids!!

[Ardenaso]

nightmare druids or void elf shamans, I prefer to keep the paladins exclusive to blood elves

perhaps the nightborne can have tinker if they would get a unique elf class

[ravenmoon]

Ah, at long last it looks like the Nightborne finally have the appearance of elves, and not glorified goblins.

But, they are still not the best elves. That's an award reserved for another [Allied] race.

Yeh. Good observation

thata been the problem with night elf males. Both alliance and horde Nightborne.

They don’t have the graceful beauty elven look. They’ve looked ugly for a long time very unelven. They could have tried to at least have 2 or 3 really good looking faces for them.

The 9.0 customisations do make them look nicer. But the scowl in the expression the over emphasis on looking really old and the lack of something more chiselled should seriously help them.

loving being ble to do a high elf btw

[Rhlor]

Ah, at long last it looks like the Nightborne finally have the appearance of elves, and not glorified goblins.

But, they are still not the best elves. That's an award reserved for another [Allied] race.

Nightborne needs hands and hair mana like npcs

[Vaedan]

Nightborne needs hands and hair mana like npcs

Yes, that's good suggestion. I like their new face tattoos and jewelery.

Also, Night Warrior/Elune glowing tattoos for night elves.

[Rhlor]

Yes, that's good suggestion. I like their new face tattoos and jewelery.

Also, Night Warrior/Elune glowing tattoos for night elves.

I am surprised that blizz has not given those characteristics that npcs have at least the developers gave them the eyes they asked for so much.

[ravenmoon]

@Alanar - I agree again. We shouldn’t be fighting to have exactly the same thing.

while I’m certainly up for races having access to every class playstyle. I’m not up for them having access to every class.

which is why I am a fan of class skins and class identities. Where you can give a different class like a Botanist or Starmancer or Night Warrior but use the mechanics of an existing class.

not a permanent substitution for a brand new class with a new playstyle but it would allow many new fantasies and classes that are tailored to certain races.

No way should any elf race be shaman. But they can have something similar taught by the Moonguard and Duskguard from the lost Kaldorei arts that employ the arcane to use elemental magic like shaman do (ie shaman playstyle, but different class).

it could be something close to the original theme of the class whose playstyle it is using or be something very different.
@Vaedan as for entropic embrace. Definitely upgrade the visual, but if your skin isn’t purple ot should switch to Solar embrace or embrace of the sun.

I am also happy for high elves to take on a more light centred role while blood elves shift a bit more back to being arcane focused. Blizzard can then build a unique partner compliment between a void centred void elf and light centred high elf who together as a bonded pair can amplify their power feeeding off the energy from the clash between the light and void. But having implications beyond power, like the light high elf being an anchor for the void counterpart allowing him to delve deeper into the void without losing his sanity while the high elf finds the light welling up in great intensity to counteract void presence allowing him to do a lot more.

Something unique like that. Also showing how these guys employ light and void in every class so people don’t think they are basically draenei priest 2.0 - unless you are a void elf or high elf priest your light/void use is very magical science based. Not faith based.

it plays well into the alliance and in this way compliments the void elf side and offers an Avenue to show the elves develop something greater with these powers.

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People don’t realise this.

I do want Nightborne and Night elves to be different. But obviously they are not a different species they are Kaldorei root stock. So while the simlarity should be obvious straight away, it should also be clear that they are different.

I view them like I do high elves and blood elves and void elves. I really just like that each group shows a different slice of the cake but have never wanted them to be totally separate either otherwise they lose the sense of who they are.

I want a high elf to feel like a high elf, as different from a blood elf and for it to be obvious. Not physically only, style, theme, character while being clearly different. But not drastically different either. Allied races are perfect for this. But I know some people want them to feel or be like new races. It’s just not what they are.

Void elves have a clear visual and thematic distinction.

Because Highborne night elves haven’t been shown much. The distinction between Nightborne and night elf seems much bigger experiential my than it is according to lore ( it also helps they did a much better job presenting Suramar than any other race has gotten before Legion.

But still I don’t like thisn inaccuracy . So I wish for the Darnassians to get their Zin’Azshari look alike city with their highborne and priests and civilian side of their race shown. But their focus isn’t as much city life. No for that we can delve into the Nightborne. While the Darnassians focus on Elune temple life and forest life but have the visual representation and caveat stories and quests for their city.

This is how I want it