Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Metzen originally wanted ogres for the Horde and high elves for the Alliance.

That is not a source. A source would mean a link to something to confirm this.

[Magnagarde]

That is not a source. A source would mean a link to something to confirm this.

I know it isn't a source; I didn't say I'm going to scour the internet to provide it. I remember it along those lines, you're free to look it up if you wish to, though I assume it would be burried deep as it is pretty old. It is a package of not being able to come up with ogre females, draenei being intended as a neutral faction, player population on the Horde side being an issue and the Alliance already having elves(which were extremely popular alongside humans) and so on.

If I remember correctly - and I may well remember it incorrectly - it might've been said when commenting on Chinese players asking for a pretty race on the Horde or something and whether that influenced Blizzard when making the decision.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I know it isn't a source; I didn't say I'm going to scour the internet to provide it. I remember it, though you're free to look it up, though I assume it would be burried deep as it is pretty old. It is a package of not being able to come up with ogre females, draenei being neutral, player population on the Horde side being an issue and the Alliance already having elves, which were extremely popular alongside humans.

If this were true, it would be recited quite often here. I have double-checked and searched for your claim and have not found it. It is true, however, that Ogres were going to be the Horde race in Cataclysm. Your claim is definitely false because no evidence exists to support it. Please do not spread misinformation.

[Magnagarde]

If this were true, it would be recited quite often here. I have double-checked and searched for your claim and have not found it. It is true, however, that Ogres were going to be the Horde race in Cataclysm. Your claim is definitely false because no evidence exists to support it. Please do not spread misinformation.

Misinformation? You're taking this awfully seriously. I can stand corrected if I'm wrong and that's pretty much it.

[Kyriani]

If this were true, it would be recited quite often here. I have double-checked and searched for your claim and have not found it. It is true, however, that Ogres were going to be the Horde race in Cataclysm. Your claim is definitely false because no evidence exists to support it. Please do not spread misinformation.

I don't have the DVD in question, and I am unsure if it contains the exact info being referenced by the person you're replying to, but I think the World of Warcraft Mists of Pandaria Collectors Edition Behind the Scenes DVD might have interviews discussing how races were shuffled around with blood elves going horde and pandas being put on the back burner until they developed MoP itself.

Please understand that I don't know for certain if what the person you're speaking with is sharing correct info or not. I just thought it couldn't hurt to mention the dvd in case someone has it to reference and perhaps enlighten us all.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

How to fix the Blood Elves: Undo their entire arc as a race and give their new primary theme to the High Elves, who have never had a particularly strong Light theme to begin with?

I admit I laughed

[ravenmoon]

All of this can happen.
And maybe - the key here is that the Sunwell is destroyed by the Void. Yes, I'm a Blood Elf fan, but maybe - what we need is a big shake up in Sin'dorei society, where a focus is on their arcane magical hubris. That something is the Sunwell being destroyed, but the Blood Elves remain in Silvermoon.

Silvermoon becomes heavy in "Blood Crystal" vibes, with the current ruins being a place for many Blood Elf Warlocks and Fel Crystals. The current "Ruins of Silvermoon" is rebuilt, but has a very strong -Warlock- like feel...maybe even the Sin'dorei Demon Hunter show up, only as Ambassadors who are here to help Silvermoon and that's it - not the Horde. Could be like the Kaldorei ones, in the new night elf city. Helps the Night Elves only, not the Alliance.

I'm not saying Lady Liadrin should be Alliance, because she's devoted to the Sin'dorei - but she becomes more "Warrior" or "Blade of the Light" with emphasis on "Blade."

High Elves have a very "Holy Light" driven focus, with an emphasis on their Priests and Rangers. Could be done via Vereesa and the Stormwind Province.

Void Elves have a very Void and "Twisting Nether"-like Astromancy.

My vision is to have something like that.

The higher arcane emphasis of the horde elves makes them more powerful but also more vulnerable, less healthy and whole.

The alliance elves have their night elves incl highborne and high elves and void elves but their mark of distinction is a more wholesome approach. Elune and nature magic complimenting night elf arcane users , light magic complimenting high elf arcane uses and void magic enhancing void elf arcane users.

so while the horde elves would have a slight arcane edge there. Is a flip side in the other specialties the alliance consider seriously do make them no less formidable, and from a certain point of view (non gameplay), better. The idea is horde fans would think they are better while alliance fans would think they are.

The roots of both the blood elves and Nightborne don’t forget are principally based on the alliance int he high elves and night elves. That needs to have a reflection with its own advantages and disadvantages.

Obviously there are reasons blood elves and Nightborne moved away from their origin and became what they are, reasons that suits them, but weighing against that is the most successful eras of both elven groups were in the origin groups who exist still and have improved with changes of their own.

Horde fans will see a hope their elves are better for the changes they endured or had to make which time will prove, while alliance fans have the greatness of the past as their proof but also the gradual developments and evolutions they have experienced enhancing them and their original identity they haven’t altered (now do you see why though a Druid NElf fan I am passionate the arcane and presundering side of the Kaldorei continues clearly visible in them. Never said it had dominate like in the Nightborne or even be huge. It just had to be there, clearly visible and part of their package because they are the full picture of the Kaldorei in all their facets.

This should help also add to a different feel and perception while at the same time the similarities should be clear between alliance elves and horde elves.

You want to achieve essentially simultaneously being both very alike yet very different. Even in common areas like magic all elves share.

Emphasis on how they work together will play the largest role in bringing that out.

Highborne work different from Nightborne because of the much heavier Druidic and Elunic influences that promote balance, harmony and humility. This has clear advantages but also means a less prominent arcane focus if that’s what you like. While Druidism and Elunism can and should exist in the Nightborne, the degree is not only far less, but heavily skewed to the arcane elements in Druidism and Elunism which do have a lot. This is one of several areas that illustrates similarity and difference i. A way that is pronounced either way. Here is another.

The entirely urban centric life of the Nightborne is different from the more overall mixed life of the Kaldorei who would have urban centres like a capital for their urban life and rural life in the forests as well as temple life. And the effect is noticeable. Not to mention they are a far bigger group.

Same with blood elves who have a much higher population, broader infrastructure and land mass whereas high elves are refugees and void elves just settiting up. Even if they get a great city they would be more city state like Nightborne than nation state like blood elves and night elves.( or rather what night elves should be! It is biased and unfair to have all alliance elves fringe, marooned and homeless for many reasons incl lore wise given the fact the core of the elves is alliance and the species’ biggest fan and support base sit blue)

So basically, the position is reversed for void/high elves in the end than it is for night elves/Nightborne. Because Blood elves have the city +country and full life picture. High elves and void elves just have the city with a very specific strain or vein of focus.

Same for the night group but in reverse. Night elves have the city and country, while Nightborne just have the city

[Tanaria]

SNIP

Each playable elf race has all different similarities and differences.

Night Elves and Blood Elves are very nation based and nation-proud. Have both a city and a whole countryside (Hyjal, Darkshore and Ashenvale / Quel'Thalas and Quel'Danas)
Void Elves and Blood Elves are very driven
Night Elves and Void Elves both control immense powers through god-like beings (Elune and the Void.)
Night Elves and Nightborne come from the same era.
Nightborne and Blood Elves are magic based in arcane cities with arcane resources on their doorsteps.
Void Elves and Nightborne have both used "Void" magic before now, but in very different circumstances.

Now, could the Blood Elves forsake their "Light" story, in favor of Arcane (Arcane, Fire and Blood), Fel and Farstrider (Theron and Huldoran are still two high commanders, with the former as the Sin'dorei leader.) Yes they could, if the Blood Knights served more in the way of drawing upon the Holy Light and Blood Magic. Blends well with the idea of "Blood Heals" that the Sunfury Paladins were using.
Nightborne take up a sole, but extreme Arcane path, with Leyline knowledge, which helps their Blood Elven friends restore magical potency across Quel'Thalas.

Night Elves will obviously have a very "Nature"-like home, with strong Elune references. It'll have some "Highborne" buildings, but it's core - like the Night Elves, will center around Druidism and the Priesthood (since their leaders are a Night Elf Druid and Night Elf Priest.) Possibly, a more "softer" tone to the city, unlike Silvermoon, which would undergo radical changes so the Quel'Thalas populace have their hunger for magic, sated.
Void Elves take up the Void and Arcane paths, which have been used to compliment the Night Elven Sentinels, before now.

Now the High Elven refugees - where could they go? Well, BFA told us that those few high elves are part of Stormwind's Magi force. Now, Blizzard's obsession over W3 could see High Elven Priests and High Elven Mages work together with the Void Elves. Maybe, High Elves and Highborne Shen'dralar could muster something up together?

[elbleuet]

Ptr's down

My body is ready for white/black haired high elves.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Ptr's down

My body is ready for white/black haired high elves.

AHHHH!!!

Okay I saw the notice yesterday but I still thought new build proper would come out on Thurdsay!

[Beloren]

WoW has never been shy about the cultural and ideological distinctions of druidic and arcane magic, let's not pretend they are seen as the same thing.

Which IS the interesting thing about elves. Yes, they all are adept to all forms of magic, but it's their group ideologies what lead what "magics" do they use. Do they have taboos against some types? Or do they see all the possibilities of every school? Pretty much a Night Elf to Blood Elf spectrum, with all other derivative elves somewhere in between.

I do think both Blood Elves and Nightborne could learn druidism, but I do think it would be less spiritual and more scholarly than the NE version, more of the "Botanist" Archetype.

- - - Updated - - -



Urgh, I really wanna know how the hair textures textures are going to work!!

You see I think the night elf version is quite scholarly.. this is what Malfurion, a pre-sundering nighte lf brought to the nature arts that allowed it to develop greatly into what would become druidism.

The problem is people keep thinking of night elves as primitive and spiritual only, but their background, especially of their leaders is quite scholarly. Malfurion was a scholar and a very clever spell caster, not a prolific arcane user to go to the extent mages do, but was that because he wasn't talented or because he was wise enough to see the dangers of the arcane obsession on his society - and I don't think he ever was anti arcane, it's just that somethings can't be taken as far as Azshara led her people without certain consequences, because of their nature. Arcane is very potent, so you need to ease carefully and wisely into it to bring out the most.

I believe the night elves did that mostly (which is how they went so far) until Azshara went all "let's push all the way, abandon all reserve and care, because you know, I'm Azsahra, we're very clever, and we don't need to be that careful - there more secrets to uncover , more wonders to delight the people and secure may place as a goddess greater than Elune" probably motivated by vain glory, trying to impress the people more than the priesthood , which she had mostly succeeded despite their huge influence, but ofc she wanted more. There could have been other factors and the vanity was just a part.

But my understanding is the excessive push that was causing them to lose touch with their benevolent and reverent spirit. Malfurion spots this and "preaches" like a philosopher about this, and is considered a pariah in Suramar.

But he is very intelligent and knows magic. I think he takes the discipline of the scholarly approach to magic that would have had all night elves in that era taught, and applies structure a nd academic rigour to nature studies which allows it to evolve into druidism.

Many people miss this simply because they associate humble garb and rural lifestyle with being simpletons, primitives and well stupid. but this is not hte MO of the night elves, those guys live like that not because they don't know how to live otherwise , but because they've chosen that way ( I guess to prevent the Legion from returning).. they don't become stupid or less learned at all.

At least that is the underlying and background information that informs us about them, whether it is always emphasised in their quests or by devs, and whether players pick up on it (few do) or do not (which is most) because they don't think about fantasy programs, they just see and jump to conclusions.


All magic is scholarly. The same race that delved into the arcane and mastered it to such great lengths were not only adept at arcane magic. It's likely the priests were the first pioneers and scholars, and their scholarly approach would not have diminished. It just would have governed their behaviour and principals but largely kept to themselves. they don't seem to be a "spread the faith religion" and teach all people our ways.. but that may be because all night elves believed anyway (at least at the start) and much of basic kaldorei mentality and ideology was governed by their tenets.. with only Azshara's Highborne circle drifting through the lust for power their pursuit of arcane power compelled them to and even that was greatly in part due to the nature of arcane addiction.

then there is the connection between nature magic and arcane magic. They are not totally separate and independent, as if one can flow into the other and one helps the other complimentary, despite being different - but can just as easily work against each other, which is why utilising the arcane waters of the moonwells to boos the land need all nature to corporate and come into agreement (seen by the moonwell quest in Suramar).

So year, scholarly pursuit does not rule out druidism or make it difficult, just the opposite.. the problem is that arrogance does. Which is why I don't think the restored nightfallen would have a problem with it, as the Arcan'dor quests clearly show.. They have accepted the need for balance like the Darnssians realised after the sundering, ofc, no legion to prevent returning, so no one has to abandon the arcane. Yet they drained the nightwell, recognising the problem and addiction it can promote.

Illidan's difficulty with druidism was his humility. Cenarius comments he could be as good as his brother if would submit.. but recognises his path leads elsewhere.. rather than do that, Illidan is angry because he can't actually do something magically related. He knows he is good at magic. But then he goes on o be the greatest sorcerer that ever lived (at least according to the Wow encyclopaedia compendium released a few years ago). I guess means greater than Azshara, but then he masters the fel she was so entranced with.. she never does by the sundering, and we know her path led to the void and arcane. Just not in the way the void elves do it. Seeing who her masters were.

Azshara shoudl have trusted in the light of Elune, but I guess Elune was the competition, so the void became enticing when the old gods showed her their former kingdom.. she took the bargain.

[Kyriani]

Finally!



While I would have preferred the NPC black, this is acceptable.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Finally!



While I would have preferred the NPC black, this is acceptable.

Ahh! it's already up!!? GOTTA GO! Kinda like how this one looks, but yeah, there was something about the opaqueness of the dressing room black that fit VE's so well.

[Kyriani]

Mmmhmm... I'm on the list, so I skip the line.

[Doffen]

Those new hair colors are great! My venthyr void elf is keeping her purple void elf hair, though my hunter will look great in white shiny hair!

And deffo black hair on my rogue

Keep those options coming. Maybe HM Tauren gets more too seeing they are disabled on ptr.

[Yarathir]

Those new hair colors are great! My venthyr void elf is keeping her purple void elf hair, though my hunter will look great in white shiny hair!

And deffo black hair on my rogue

Keep those options coming. Maybe HM Tauren gets more too seeing they are disabled on ptr.

Wowhead is datamining some Highmountain stuff.

[Doffen]

Wowhead is datamining some Highmountain stuff.

Very nice!

[Yarathir]

White and black hair colors really do work well for the Void Elf looks, too.

[Kyriani]

Agreed. They give a nice dark elf vibe.

[FlubberPuddy]

Agreed. They give a nice dark elf vibe.

Which is a 'FUCKEN FINALLY' if I've ever seen one lol, Void Elves have a very nice dark grey skin tone and it annoyed me there was no black/white hair to give that Dark Elf vibe!

Also your character's looking fabulous!!