Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Varodoc]

Can't tell you straight up, but there's some High Elf Wayfarers in Telogrus Rift being taught by Void Elves and also some High Elf Sorcerer NPCs in Stormwind chilling with Void Elves, so I guess they're at least on somewhat amicable terms?

"Ren'dorei" as a term simply means "Children of the Void", all those who embrace the Void and seek to become one with it, are Ren'dorei.

So even if those wayfarers are biologically uncorrupted High elves, they would still be considered "Ren'dorei". For they are indeed united by the Void and seek to study and be reforged by it.

If you asked those students in Telogrus Rift what they are, they would indeed tell you that they see themselves as Children of the Void. And if there was a way to replicate the ritual that turned Alleria Windrunner into the first of the Ren'dorei, they would probably take it.

[Yarathir]

"Ren'dorei" as a term simply means "Children of the Void", all those who embrace the Void and seek to become one with it, are Ren'dorei.

So even if those wayfarers are biologically uncorrupted High elves, they would still be considered "Ren'dorei". For they are indeed united by the Void and seek to study and be reforged by it.

If you asked those students in Telogrus Rift what they are, they would indeed tell you that they see themselves as Children of the Void. And if there was a way to replicate the ritual that turned Alleria Windrunner into the first of the Ren'dorei, they would probably take it.

That's why it's important to separate Void Elves as a political group from Void Elves as a "race."

The purple, betentacled Void Elves are most definitely genetically altered and can be considered their own Void Elf race. But as of right now, Void Elf as a political group seems to contain other types of elves, like those aforementioned High Elf Wayfarers and Alleria, who is her own type of Void Elf.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Adding or updating High Elf NPCs with the new Void Elf customizations would be welcome.

Like the high elf sorceress, for example.

NGL, it would be an unnecessary effort, but I'd love if they started changing HE NPC's to use the VE model XD

- - - Updated - - -

Can't tell you straight up, but there's some High Elf Wayfarers in Telogrus Rift being taught by Void Elves and also some High Elf Sorcerer NPCs in Stormwind chilling with Void Elves, so I guess they're at least on somewhat amicable terms?

It's really a shame we haven't seen any more of it since its set up in 7.3.5, but yeah, we can't obviate the fact that from the little we have gotten in regards of VE relationships, they made an effort to show them on very amicable terms with High Elves; those sorcerers weren't in game before, so they were added to quite literally show them walking and talking around time.

Compounded to the High Elven Wayfarers in Telogrus (I think it really just a matter of time before we have conformation them and the Silvermoon Scholars have "become" Void Elves) and the simple fact that the leaders of the VE and HE's are sisters that work together, I think that the implication is heavily on the "They do get along" But I really hope we see a solid confirmation and advancement of it.

[Varodoc]

That's why it's important to separate Void Elves as a political group from Void Elves as a "race."

The purple, betentacled Void Elves are most definitely genetically altered and can be considered their own Void Elf race. But as of right now, Void Elf as a political group seems to contain other types of elves, like those aforementioned High Elf Wayfarers and Alleria, who is her own type of Void Elf.

Indeed. It's exactly the same situation as the Forsaken.

For instance, we know that the Forsaken are a group of free-willed Undead, most of which are Undead Humans, but not necessarily. Many Forsaken are also Undead Elves or even Leper Gnomes, there was even one Dreadlord at one point.

Similarly, while the Ren'dorei (Children of the Void) are mostly biologically Void elves, I have no doubt that those Blood and High elves scholars would classify themselves as Children of the Void. Since they seek to study the Void and go to extreme lengths to do so (the Blood elves scholars were willing to defy the Horde to do so...).

[Beloren]

Indeed. It's exactly the same situation as the Forsaken.
.

and the same with The Night Elves

That's why it's important to separate Void Elves as a political group from Void Elves as a "race."

The purple, betentacled Void Elves are most definitely genetically altered and can be considered their own Void Elf race. But as of right now, Void Elf as a political group seems to contain other types of elves, like those aforementioned High Elf Wayfarers and Alleria, who is her own type of Void Elf.

It's as Ravenmoon said, Ren'dorei is both a race and a faction. The race are those genetically altered, the faction is not exclusive to genetically altered Thalassians, but also blood elves and high elves who now study the void, and identify as void elves, as well as those who just want to partner with them as high elves.

It's similar to the night elves. The Night Elves is the faction, but night elves is the race. Treants, ancients, Dryads, keepers are all part of the faction, but not part of the race even if they have genetic connections. WE may have options to play dryads one day, but another example are Highborne who are a different faction of night elves allied to The Night Elves, but in their case happen to be genetically night elven race wise, but not faction wise. all the broken isle night elf factions are not part of "The Night Elves" which to avoid confusion people often call Darnassians these days.

[Yarathir]

NGL, it would be an unnecessary effort, but I'd love if they started changing HE NPC's to use the VE model XD

- - - Updated - - -



It's really a shame we haven't seen any more of it since its set up in 7.3.5, but yeah, we can't obviate the fact that from the little we have gotten in regards of VE relationships, they made an effort to show them on very amicable terms with High Elves; those sorcerers weren't in game before, so they were added to quite literally show them walking and talking around time.

Compounded to the High Elven Wayfarers in Telogrus (I think it really just a matter of time before we have conformation them and the Silvermoon Scholars have "become" Void Elves) and the simple fact that the leaders of the VE and HE's are sisters that work together, I think that the implication is heavily on the "They do get along" But I really hope we see a solid confirmation and advancement of it.

Honestly, I think their existence serves as a basis for playable Void Elf (faction)-aligned genetic High Elves, and that any of the actually voidy Void Elves we see or play are all a result of the events of the introduction scenario.

[The Stormbringer]

This is one of those things that, if they made enough changes to get me playing again, would get me playing a Void Elf (as a High Elf) specifically. That said, I also dig the Void Elf aesthetic, I just think I like High Elves a little more.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Honestly, I think their existence serves as a basis for playable Void Elf (faction)-aligned genetic High Elves, and that any of the actually voidy Void Elves we see or play are all a result of the events of the introduction scenario.

That's my issue about it. Like it implies that yes! both BE and HE's are studying with the VE's and Ethereals! which is nice!! but with like, zero actual explanation of how they would become Void Elves? Like I feel we should get some of that SOON.

It all boils down to VE's needing more depth of lore and characterization, BfA basically did nothing for them as a race -we did get some Umbric- and I really hope we get to see how they have advanced as a race next expansion.

I do feel the implication that there ARE new VE initiates coming from BE and HE is there, but I'd like for it to be stronger right now than them just attending a lecture. Like, if we saw the Wayfarers and Scholars using void abilities, such as Entropic Embrace and Spatial Rift, it would just be a neat bit of environmental storytelling.

Having what we have since 2018 is just too little to have an working knowledge of how they function as a society. Contrast that to LFD, we know exactly how more are made, easy peacy.

[Yarathir]

That's my issue about it. Like it implies that yes! both BE and HE's are studying with the VE's and Ethereals! which is nice!! but with like, zero actual explanation of how they would become Void Elves? Like I feel we should get some of that SOON.

It all boils down to VE's needing more depth of lore and characterization, BfA basically did nothing for them as a race -we did get some Umbric- and I really hope we get to see how they have advanced as a race next expansion.

I do feel the implication that there ARE new VE initiates coming from BE and HE is there, but I'd like for it to be stronger right now than them just attending a lecture. Like, if we saw the Wayfarers and Scholars using void abilities, such as Entropic Embrace and Spatial Rift, it would just be a neat bit of environmental storytelling.

Having what we have since 2018 is just too little to have an working knowledge of how they function as a society. Contrast that to LFD, we know exactly how more are made, easy peacy.

That's assuming they will ever genetically become Void Elves, tbh. Who says they will? Maybe they'll just continue being High and Blood Elves with void powers? Without being altered physically. Of course they couldn't let Alliance players play Blood Elves, but you get my point.

[Kyriani]

Adding or updating High Elf NPCs with the new Void Elf customizations would be welcome.

Like the high elf sorceress, for example.

I did a similar comparison!

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

That's assuming they will ever genetically become Void Elves, tbh. Who says they will? Maybe they'll just continue being High and Blood Elves with void powers? Without being altered physically. Of course they couldn't let Alliance players play Blood Elves, but you get my point.

That's the point to me where the definition of what a "Void Elf" is just very malleable. Like yes, the OG ones are blue, but *are* they another race? Are "Demon Hunters" another thalassian race? What IS the difference between a "Void Elf" and an Elf with Void powers? Isn't Alleria also a Void Elf while looking exactly like a High Elf still?

I would say that from a "genetic" standpoint, the OG Void Elves are just Thalassian Elves that got affected by Void Energy on a manner just not dissimilar to Demon Hunters. They just aren't a "new race" and more of a self denominational nomenclature, being The Children of the Void being more of an identity issue, just as we see Alleria call herself.

So can a High Elf or a Blood Elf become a "Void Elf" in terms of self identity? Yeah, of course.

But can a High elf or Blood Elf become a "Void Elf" in the sense of replicating the level of void infusion that first botched ritual created? So far, we haven't seen that to be the case.

And then, is there a marked biological difference between a Void Elf like Umbric and one like Alleria, or is just the void infusion expressing itself differently? Could a new "Void Elf" end up growing hair tentacles and blue skin if they study/interact the Void in a certain manner? I think so, any elf that gets affected by the void on a genetic level, regardless if it is a sudden change or a slow process, would be a "genetic" Void Elf, whether they look like Alleria or Umbric. The only thing that really changes is the phenotype expression.

To me, the whole idea that "Void Elves" are a new "race" is inaccurate at its core, It's really just the same situation Demon Hunters are and they still see themselves as "Blood Elves". Because no matter how you gain that connection or infusion to the void, be it so like Alleria or Umbric's gang, the idea of being a "Void Elf" is entirely self-denominational.

- - - Updated - - -

I did a similar comparison!

Gah, really wish we could swap one of the blondes for that brown XD

[Yarathir]

That's the point to me where the definition of what a "Void Elf" is just very malleable. Like yes, the OG ones are blue, but *are* they another race? Are "Demon Hunters" another thalassian race?

What IS the difference between a "Void Elf" and an Elf with Void powers? Isn't Alleria also a Void Elf while looking exactly like a High Elf still?

I would say that from a "biological" standpoint, the OG Void Elves are just Thalassian Elves that got affected by Void Energy on a manner just not dissimilar to Demon Hunters. They just aren't a "new race" and more of a self denominational nomenclature, being The Children of the Void being more of an identity issue, just as we see Alleria call herself.

So can a High Elf or a Blood Elf become a "Void Elf" in terms of self identity? Yeah, of course.

But can a High elf or Blood Elf become a "Void Elf" in the sense of replicating the level of void infusion that first botched ritual created? So far, we haven't seen that to be the case.

And then, is there a marked biological difference between a Void Elf like Umbric and one like Alleria, or is just the void infusion expressing itself differently? Could a new "Void Elf" end up growing hair tentacles and blue skin if they study/interact the Void in a certain manner?

To me, the whole idea that "Void Elves" are a new "race" is inaccurate at its core, It's really just the same situation Demon Hunters are and they still see themselves as "Blood Elves". Because no matter how you gain that connection or infusion to the void, be it so like Alleria or Umbric's gang, the idea of being a "Void Elf" is entirely self-denominational.

- - - Updated - - -



Gah, really wish we could swap one of the blondes for that brown XD

At some point, you really just have to accept that Warcraft Elves evolve/mutate into some new type/subspecies whenever they sneeze.

[Kyriani]

Gah, really wish we could swap one of the blondes for that brown XD

I'm happy with what I have. I won't say no to more, but I don't feel any pressing need to ask for more. I'm content.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

At some point, you really just have to accept that Warcraft Elves evolve/mutate into some new type/subspecies whenever they sneeze.

Exactly! So that's basically my point, I don't think they are another race in the sense of a new species, but more so "race" in the sense of self identification of a group -and of course, by gameplay mechanics, which is also a HUGE factor-

Mechagnomes are literally the same race than gnomes, their differences are entirely cultural, yet they are a new Allied Race.

Demon Hunters go through a ritual or process that is really equivalent to how you get LFD, yet they aren't a new AR, just a customization option.

That's part of why I think in terms of lore and like just, organization, most AR's should just be customization options, because they really aren't new "races" on any meaningful way within the universe, and it would be better to just merge and share options within what "race" really is on a more root biological sense, and only mantain the distinction when it comes to that mix of cultural drift and gameplay mechanics that makes VE and BE different "races", while they are both ostensibly in the biological sense, two groups of Thalassian Elves (that did originate from a natural evolution) affected by different cosmic forces or magics.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm happy with what I have. I won't say no to more, but I don't feel any pressing need to ask for more. I'm content.

I feel the same way, like it would be better IMO, but it really is the sort of thing that's more of a personal nitpick :3

[Kyriani]

Now if only the forum would let me update my avatar... I have the image at the right size and tried jpg and png formats but it still keeps saying unable to save image. I even tried tossing it on imgur and linking it yet still no dice

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Now if only the forum would let me update my avatar... I have the image at the right size and tried jpg and png formats but it still keeps saying unable to save image. I even tried tossing it on imgur and linking it yet still no dice

Oh lol for real? That's weird. Haven't changed my avatar ever so IDK if this is a new thing or not.

[Yarathir]

Exactly! So that's basically my point, I don't think they are another race in the sense of a new species, but more so "race" in the sense of self identification of a group -and of course, by gameplay mechanics, which is also a HUGE factor-

Mechagnomes are literally the same race than gnomes, their differences are entirely cultural, yet they are a new Allied Race.

Demon Hunters go through a ritual or process that is really equivalent to how you get LFD, yet they aren't a new AR, just a customization option.

That's part of why I think in terms of lore and like just, organization, most AR's should just be customization options, because they really aren't new "races" on any meaningful way within the universe, and it would be better to just merge and share options within what "race" really is on a more root biological sense, and only mantain the distinction when it comes to that mix of cultural drift and gameplay mechanics that makes VE and BE different "races", while they are both ostensibly in the biological sense, two groups of Thalassian Elves (that did originate from a natural evolution) affected by different cosmic forces or magics.

- - - Updated - - -



I feel the same way, like it would be better IMO, but it really is the sort of thing that's more of a personal nitpick :3

Sorry, too late. I heard Blizzard is already working on a new race: Sneeze Elves (Choo'dorei)

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Sorry, too late. I heard Blizzard is already working on a new race: Sneeze Elves (Choo'dorei)

And we will spend over a year arguing if they should be blonde or not

[Syegfryed]

That's the point to me where the definition of what a "Void Elf" is just very malleable. Like yes, the OG ones are blue, but *are* they another race?

yes, biologically another race/specie of elf, there was a stable mutation and changing in their bodies, pretty much like nightborne are not night elves, but another race of elf.

Are "Demon Hunters" another thalassian race?

this a tricky one but most likely not yet, as an elf totally mutated by fel are red(the felblood elf), they would be floating in the half-elf/half-demon like illidan was once called since the power is pretty much from the "demon within". If the mutation/change is not totally, or can be reversed, isn't a new race yet, Like Gul'dan becoming a red hulk, maybe he would become a new race of fel orc, like the ones in outland, but there was not enough time, that is the grey area DH work.

Plus, if not convinced yet, is more or less a gameplay decision to balance things.

I would say that from a "genetic" standpoint, the OG Void Elves are just Thalassian Elves that got affected by Void Energy on a manner just not dissimilar to Demon Hunters.

the difference here is how DH still maintain their racials traits,meaning they still retain their biological/racial traces, while void elves, nightborne and others don't, therefore other race/specie.

This may be something more like the worgen case, that they are no longer human, but not their own separate race/species yet because they can't reproduce as little worgens.

But we will only know, for sure, when in the future void elves have children, as having an offspring the same as the parents is the kinda point of a new species/new race.

So can a High Elf or a Blood Elf become a "Void Elf" in terms of self identity? Yeah, of course

its like saying a human can become a "orc" in terms of self identity if he start using the elements like a shaman, "void elf" isn't a state of spirit like "nighbotne" is(like you were born at night, can you be a night elf nightborne? no.)

To me, the whole idea that "Void Elves" are a new "race" is inaccurate at its core, It's really just the same situation Demon Hunters are and they still see themselves as "Blood Elves". Because no matter how you gain that connection or infusion to the void, be it so like Alleria or Umbric's gang, the idea of being a "Void Elf" is entirely self-denominational.

How it is just self denomination if their core is totally changed/mutated? isn't like they just "hey im using this void now, im void elf," the mutation must occur, or else the powers and racials make no sense to exist, just because they look the same does not mean they are still the same, by example, there is a lot of species of animals that look the same, but are different species. It would make sense they look the same like alleria, as the exterior is just a shell of the void being in the interior.

Exactly! So that's basically my point, I don't think they are another race in the sense of a new species, but more so "race" in the sense of self identification of a group -and of course, by gameplay mechanics, which is also a HUGE factor-

but they are, thats the point of elves evolving every time they sneeze. since trolls a lot of "evolution" happened.

Mechagnomes are literally the same race than gnomes, their differences are entirely cultural, yet they are a new Allied Race.

their difference is the mechanical parts, making then no longer "just gnomes", pretty much a parallel of forsaken, that are not "just humans".

One thing they "did right" in the allied races is how they were not the same race anymore, be from evolution/mutation/magic/tecnology. Except vulpera as they make no sense all together for the allied race system.

[lowdps1]

we need high elves !!