Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Syegfryed]

They'll always resort to these three

- Your name says 'Void Elf' not 'High Elf' lol!!! (But this somehow doesn't apply to Blood Elves)

- You turn purple in combat for 1% out of 99% of the combat, h-eh.. (Shadow Priest Blood Elves are apparently not Blood Elves)

- You can't be a paladin hahahah you will never be a high elf (Paladins are a blood elf thing, not in any way iconic to high elves)

- as blood elf didn't change their race just their name, unlike void elves who changed race
- your turn purple because is a racial enforcing the race change, shadow priest is a magical ability, not permanent, not tied to their physiology.
- This one i agree but its the helfers who are asking for it like it is a big selling point for them

[Yarathir]

- as blood elf didn't change their race just their name, unlike void elves who changed race
- your turn purple because is a racial enforcing the race change, shadow priest is a magical ability, not permanent, not tied to their physiology.
- This one i agree but its the helfers who are asking for it like it is a big selling point for them

-That's you making your conclusion. We've already explained how Void Elves are not just a group of people with purple skin and tentacle hair, so you can't keep circling around back to it to have it re-explained every time

-See above

-It's a small subset of helfers who want their pure blonde heroic high elves and also blood elf fans who want to cope

[Syegfryed]

-That's you making your conclusion. We've already explained how Void Elves are not just a group of people with purple skin and tentacle hair, so you can't keep circling around back to it to have it re-explained every time
-See above

- That is not "me making my conclusion" that is straight up, blizzard lore about those races, your headcanon explanations means nothing when we are discussing the canon, people ideas of RP are one thing, the canon is other. Void elves are a race of elves mutated by the void, period, you can't keep circling around with your headcanon thinking you refuted "every time"
-See above

-It's a small subset of helfers who want their pure blonde heroic high elves and also blood elf fans who want to cope

everyone who want HE want the pure blonde heroic HE, come on now.

[Yarathir]

- That is not "me making my conclusion" that is straight up, blizzard lore about those races, your headcanon explanations means nothing when we are discussing the canon, people ideas of RP are one thing, the canon is other. Void elves are a race of elves mutated by the void, period, you can't keep circling around with your headcanon thinking you refuted "every time"
-See above

You've had several people explain this shit to you already, I'm not even going to bother with it now. But uhh, enjoy playing your orc specifically and strictly from alternate universe Draenor, and your Wildhammer Dwarf as a Bronzebeard LARPer in Wildhammer costume, I guess.

everyone who want HE want the pure blonde heroic HE, come on now.

You know what my point was. It's people hyperfixating on their pure blonde gold boy high elves that desperately need their paladins despite the fact that paladins hold no real lore significance for high elves.

[Syegfryed]

You've had several people explain this shit to you already, I'm not even going to bother with it now. But uhh, enjoy playing your orc specifically and strictly from alternate universe Draenor, and your Wildhammer Dwarf as a Bronzebeard LARPer in Wildhammer costume, I guess.

Again, you are confusing lore and the canon with RP and the headcanon people come up to explain their character backstory, it does not matter what the explanation people come up for it, it is headcanon and goes against the lore, which is my point about it. You point with dwarves still is wrong as they are still the same race.

You know what my point was. It's people hyperfixating on their pure blonde gold boy high elves that desperately need their paladins despite the fact that paladins hold no real lore significance for high elves.

the thing is, if people were not hyperfixating on this idea, we would not be having this discussion in the first place, as everyone would be fine with their VE being a new race, Ie. a new race of elves mutated by the void, regardless of where they come from, silver covenant, quiel'thien lodge, outlands, silvermoon, dalaran, and so on, which is the current lore

Instead, people are coming with the headcanon to say their "VE" is not rly a "VE" but a pure blonde gold boy who just use the void, and "identify himself as VE", they are not rly mutated, they are still pure. as people cannot accept their elves being tainted by the void. Thats why people keep coming up with things like "glyph to change the color of the racial" and so on, the mere idea of their pure elves mutated is disgusting for then. That again, as a RP and concept idea, is one thing and fine, the problem is when people are saying this is the real lore/canon, when its not.

[Yarathir]

Again, you are confusing lore and the canon with RP and the headcanon people come up to explain their character backstory, it does not matter what the explanation people come up for it, it is headcanon and goes against the lore, which is my point about it. You point with dwarves still is wrong as they are still the same race.

You know what's really headcanon? Seeing High Elf Wayfarers in Telogrus Rift being taught how to harness the void and then either presuming they turned into full Void Elves after that despite there being 0.0000% indication that the Void Elves made some ritual to turn everybody blue or just straight up ignoring that they exist.

Similarly, saying that a pale skinned, blue eyed, blonde haired elf going purple for 5% of their combat time means they're significantly genetically altered and are a different race is also headcanon.

But yeah, sure. Blizzard specifically gave Void Elf natural skin options, blue eyes and blonde tentacle-less hair but don't mean for players to be able to play High Elves with them. That's definitely it.

[Syegfryed]

You know what's really headcanon? Seeing High Elf Wayfarers in Telogrus Rift being taught how to harness the void and then either presuming they turned into full Void Elves after that despite there being 0.0000% indication that the Void Elves made some ritual to turn everybody blue or just straight up ignoring that they exist.

And saying the void elves you play, the new race, are the pure elves who didn't mutated, despite their racials showing they did, but instead, just normal HE that learn how to use the magic and identify themselves as void elf, that is not headcanon at all. love the cope out from the main point followed by a double standard here.

Similarly, saying that a pale skinned, blue eyed, blonde haired elf going purple for 5% of their combat time means they're significantly genetically altered and are a different race is also headcanon.

Another one of the false equivalence as, the shadow priest ability didn't change the blood elf physiology, i guess we will full circle when you bring up DH and dwarves again.

[Yarathir]

And saying the void elves you play, the new race, are the pure elves who didn't mutated, despite their racials showing they did, but instead, just normal HE that learn how to use the magic and identify themselves as void elf, that is not headcanon at all. love the cope out from the main point followed by a double standard here.


Another one of the false equivalence as, the shadow priest ability didn't change the blood elf physiology, i guess we will full circle when you bring up DH and dwarves again.

Can you explain to me why Blizzard added blue eyes, natural skin colors, blonde hair and the ability to remove tentacles from hair?

[Doffen]

- That is not "me making my conclusion" that is straight up, blizzard lore about those races, your headcanon explanations means nothing when we are discussing the canon, people ideas of RP are one thing, the canon is other. Void elves are a race of elves mutated by the void, period, you can't keep circling around with your headcanon thinking you refuted "every time"
-See above


everyone who want HE want the pure blonde heroic HE, come on now.

Void Elf another race? Like fat humans is another race right? Kul Tiran is as Human as Stormwind Humans. Another race?

Lore says that Void Elves are originally Blood Elves. Its just differentiated as a race for gameplay purposes. Just like any other race split in a version of a race on the character screen.

[Rhlor]

I'm on the same boat:

Like I would honestly prefer a High Elf Paladin -my main used to be that- but from a holistic level I just truly believe Void Elf Shamans are a far more interesting concept.

-We already have the idea of Dark Shamans, and I'd love to see that explored further, even in a more positive manner.

-"Shamanism" for void elves could tie more with the idea of Elementalism rather than connection with the ancestors; or even as cool, connection to the elements/spirits of worlds ravaged by the void.

-There's just this deep connection between the void and the elements, we have seen it with Deathwing and the Tidesages of Kul'Tiras. Again, to explore that on a more positive manner would be very interesting.

-And what it would do for High Elf fantasy as well, cause it would just be neat if the Highvale elves, specially rangers, picked it up from the Wildhammer. Like it's funny that still basically the most relevant NPC of Quel'danil is a Wildhammer Dwarf.

I think it would simply just open a lot more fantasy and possibility for the thalassian elves than paladins would, it would make the VE/HE more than just pointy eared humans.

Dark shaman and druids of nightnare for void elves

- - - Updated - - -

So having their bodies being biologically changed by the Fel doesn't make DH a different race. But having blood/high elves biologically changed by the Void does make them another race.
Meanwhile Mechagnones having limbs cut off made them a different race. Yet human undead who are forsaken are another race, but human death knights aren't. Kul Tiran are another race, despite not being another race...

I think going by the game categorization of what a race is ends up not only in conflicting statements but plain ridiculous.

If anything the allied races should have been called sub factions instead which then may or may not consist primarily of one race or another. Allied races can't be used as an argument on what a race is.

Dh are half demons in the lore

[elbleuet]

Again, you are confusing lore and the canon with RP and the headcanon people come up to explain their character backstory, it does not matter what the explanation people come up for it, it is headcanon and goes against the lore, which is my point about it.

Dude, what you are doing right now is what you've been doing for years in this thread: denying helfers their desire to play a High elf no matter what it costs in term of subjective stances

For years you've been telling us why Lore is against us and why we wouldn't ever get blond haired, blue eyed elves for canon reasons.

And you've been utterly given wrong by Blizzard itself because the Compagny accomplished your worst nightmares

Blizzard itself said it gave us high elf customizations for both faction so they can play one of them. You're fooling yourself by opposing that.

Even some of the hard core Horde fanboys acknowledged that. High elves are for everyone.

[Wired-Lain]

"Ren'dorei" being just another sect of elves in the same line as Sin'dorei or Quel'dorei would be cool actually. Because the Void Elf origin is such a unique occurance it doesnt make sense for their numbers to increase in the same way. A Sin'dorei isn't a fel mutated elf, and a Ren'dorei shouldnt have to be void mutated. Simply being an unaltered elf whos deep into void research or shadow magic sould mean they can call themselves Ren'dorei. Its about where you stand and identify, nothin else. Of course there are political distinctions, I don't believe a horde aligned elf would call themselves a High Elf, regardless of eye color, thats simply not how it works.

I'd be down for this

I predict last line of antihelfer defense would be:

- hairstyles

There is nothing more left actually.

Its crazy how far the goalposts have moved huh

[Yarathir]

"Ren'dorei" being just another sect of elves in the same line as Sin'dorei or Quel'dorei would be cool actually. Because the Void Elf origin is such a unique occurance it doesnt make sense for their numbers to increase in the same way. A Sin'dorei isn't a fel mutated elf, and a Ren'dorei shouldnt have to be void mutated. Simply being an unaltered elf whos deep into void research or shadow magic sould mean they can call themselves Ren'dorei. Its about where you stand and identify, nothin else. Of course there are political distinctions, I don't believe a horde aligned elf would call themselves a High Elf, regardless of eye color, thats simply not how it works.

I'd be down for this


Its crazy how far the goalposts have moved huh

You will never have natural skin colors!

[elbleuet]

You will never have natural skin colors!

"because : "

*inserts headcanons*

[ravenmoon]

It's the actual gear itself, for the Mages and the "purple" stuff that goes with it.

https://www.wowhead.com/news/paladin...shots:324042:1

I mean, look at that - you could easily RP your Night Elf Mage as one of Xavius' most devoted during the WoTA.
Or you could go with a Shandaral Highborne, who was dealing with the stolen artifacts from the Blue Dragons.

It just looks so good.

I definitely think Night Elves and Void Elves were in mind when designing the new Mage set and Priest set, respectively.
At this point in time, I'm seriously considering using my last level 45 free boost on a Night Elf Mage. (She'd probably be Arcane and Frost, since my Blood Elf Mage is mainly Fire and Arcane.)

Night elf mage concepts:

Male heavy: While Azshara was the most famous night elf for being a mage, turns out it's a male dominated arena. Perhaps because blizzard generally put females in the traditional male roles for night elves and the other way round. We have far more male night elf mage famous people.

1. Illidan - greatest sorceror ever (even though Azshara is more notorsiouly prolific for great arcane accomplishments)
2. Xavius - pre-satyr Xavius, 2nd best magician in the realm during that time period ( long before Illidan matures)
3. Prince Farondis - while we only meet him in Legion, we see he packs a punch and was willing to go toe to toe with Queen herself - very powerful
4. Mordant Evensahde - a bit like Thalyssra, we don't really see him do much, but as the leader of the Highborne he is noteworthy figure
5. Lothrius Mooncaller - one of the 3 leaders of the Moonguard, this guy is BADASS, did you see him against Elisande's attack force, he humiliated them, despite the great number disparities, you don't want to cross him.

Most of the Moonguard who were with the resistance, and some Highborne turned to duridism as remember it was ll night elves who agreed with the ban, including Darth Remar, it as only 3,000 years into it that Darth Remar felt it was time to move on.. the druids were vastly male populated too, showing that most of the pre-sundering magister population were male. This is likely because the order of Elune, the other most influential caste in the entire realm was exclusively female at it's sisterhood. Whiles the lore tells us males had a a priestly order connected to it, which I suspect is where the likes of Star Augur Etraeus come from.. This huge female organisation - trained casters, warriors, hunters etc.

Pre-sundering, the real had it's army, so that gender segregation was not as obvious in the military forces.. the Moonguard was mostly male, but the sister hood, especially the Night warrior would have been female. Ground forces would have been mixed, but because of the sisterhood, it is likely that even pre-sundering, females were not shy of picking up bows and swords and were probably the more melee focused..

But post sundering, during the long vigil, they would be almost entirely female.


Nightborne Mage Concepts:
I personally prefer males, but then Elisande, Thalyssra, and Thalyssra's replacement were all females. WE did fight a few mage Lords to be fair, who seemed more male than female, but the Duskguard were pretty even.

High elves:
No gender disparity - i pick what i like, I am not going to do a high elf mage, I am tempted to do a male, but I already have a blood elf.. and I kinda feel the blood elf should be the mage. I haven't relaly felt the need to play a high elf since void elves beacme avialable, and tbh, I'm really gald theyd id void leves, if you already play blodo elves, even though I love high elves, from a playing perspective of a person who does both factions, it maeks high elves a bit redundant. But now they are here, all my blood elves are switching to ruddier more tanned skin options, and darker hair options, i do have a black void elf, but the rest would be very pale skin and pale hair.

Void elves:
No gender disparity - I did go for a a female, mage is the best class for a void elf, not priest nor hunter. Because of Alleria hunter is a very good choice. But there is no priest lore for void elves. It is full of mages, then you have seen the rogues, warriors and hunters.

Therefore I have a void elf mage, rogue, warrior, priest and death knight - but I will make the female hunter high elven for sure. I was figuring whether I should make her void, but nah she'd be high elf.

Blood Elves
gAgain here, no gender disparity for mages. I do have a male blood elf mage, I've had like forever, I will still keep him and play him. My main was a blood elf hunter for a while, male too, I'm keeping him too. He's my farstrider, got a female warlock, green eyes, and off course, the only elven paladins are Blood elves, just like the only Elven druids are night elves, which is a bit silly, they should all have access to druids and paladins, but with different names. I think night warriors should be the night elf and nightborne version of Paladin, yes, nightborne should have access to them, Elune should be a big part of the nightborne, but other facets to the order that weren't emphasized with the Darnassians because of the Long vigil and the ban can now come out, including hte other star facets of the Order. I think nightborne druids should be Valewalkers, and blood and High elven ones as Botanists, Void elves should have a unique name, like Void Harversters or Tenders. Void elves should be paladins as Void knights or light paladins because of the high elf options.

All my blood elves except my paladin are changing hair colour and skin colour. and I'm removing the ones I chagned to blue eyes and setting them to either green or gold (priest/pala) or where the gear makes sense

[FlubberPuddy]

Void Elf another race? Like fat humans is another race right? Kul Tiran is as Human as Stormwind Humans. Another race?

Lore says that Void Elves are originally Blood Elves. Its just differentiated as a race for gameplay purposes. Just like any other race split in a version of a race on the character screen.

This. Anyone mention to @Syegfryed yet that by his logic Dark Irons are a different race than Dwarves yet Moira had no issues birthing a Dark Iron Dwarf baby with 'another race'

[ravenmoon]

he thinks race is about what magic is inside of you, and that Thalassian races aren't just an ethnicity of elf that is split up between cultures... It's sort of like how There are many human ethnicities, lets say Thalassians are Europeans. You're going to have a hard time telling an englishman from a german because the difference does not matter, what makes them different is culture, and an ethnic anglo raised in Germany, or tries really hard to adopt German customs, is a German. It's the same with elves, only much less complicated because high/blood/void are just schools of thought, and can reasonably be switched between with little trouble with you likely wouldn't find protest in the Warcraft Universe.

Some people might turn their heads at a purple skinned, tentacle-faced void elf calling himself a high elf, but for the rest of them it's not a huge deal. Blood Elves look to Silvermoon for guidance and believe in building back the motherland and discarding traditions and becoming what they must to survive. High Elves believe in holding to previous convictions, old allegiances and believe in preserving what they were. Void Elves fall more in line with the former, only they do not strive for nationhood, but enlightenment.

It's way more interesting than 'durr you put void energy in body u no longer blood elf '. He'd call Demon Hunters a race too if they were simply called "Fel'dorei" or something, but they never gave themselves a name, so they are still blood elves and night elves I guess? :copium:


Viewing the lore from a gameplay perspective is so boring, instead of looking at the merit of what is designed through the lens of a world first.

Same argument for night elves and Nightborne, Nightborne are an ethnicity of night elf, though the nightwell made some changes, just like the void made some changes to purple void elves.. problem is it seems that people don't connect the nightborne as much to night elves... i kept thinking, it's literally a skinny night elf - both npc (old models) and player models, with upturned ears. Why do they struggle so much more? My only conclusion is because Suramar seems so different than wild forest life they associate night elves with.

Off course, I don't have such a problem, since most of my knowledge on night elves comes from the far more extensive coverage of them in the novels, than in game which has a lot to say about the pre-sundering era and Suramar too.. so I expect and associate Suramar with night elves, they associate it with a new elf race, and blood elves oblivious to the connection blood elves have with night elves.

what @Sygefryed is saying about void elves being a different race is just as invalid as those who say Nightborne are. They're just an ethnicity who's deviation is magically induced. That's the whole point of allied/sub -races. But he thinks they're something entirely different, not quite catching the nuance. It's an autism like problem, I can entirely sympthise with, but he is so stubborn sometimes, he can make it hard to be sympathetic

Highmountains: Cenarius magically alters the Tauren = Highmountain
Lightforged: Light ritual magically alters the Eredar draenei = Lightforged
Nightborne: Nightwell magically alters the night elves = Nightborne
Void elves: Void accident magically alters the blood elves = blood elves


Same story in every case. all these sub races are based on their main races. Problem with Nightborne is most of the populations unaware of the civilization of the kaldorei - so think it's new, but it's been there since WC3, yes since WC3, read the manual, and read War of the Ancients that was written when Warcraft 3, was been written even though it was released after TFT. It's just lore they're not aware of.

The culture, character oft he Highmountain is very Tauren - slightly different form the mulgore tauren but very Tauren
The Lightforged just have a different experience but are clearly draenei
The void elves are clearly Thalassians, blood elves with re-entering their loyalty on the alliance, but they have the blood elf tenacity, drive, and we know high elves are part of them too
The Nightborne are clearly kaldorei, civilization types from the time all kaldorei had a civilization as a major part of their culture - only now slowly returning after 10k years of vigil. But it is kaldorei culture - just a side that hasn't been seen. There is nothing in Suramar, and the culture you see in the quests that isn't an expansion on what you read in War of the ancients and an exploration. It's kaldorei through and through, just not much Elune speech and druidism.. but it has lots of gardens and plants, and it's full of moon symbols everywhere.

[Doffen]

This. Anyone mention to @Syegfryed yet that by his logic Dark Irons are a different race than Dwarves yet Moira had no issues birthing a Dark Iron Dwarf baby with 'another race'

Not to mention that the parents of those Void Elves in the lore are Blood Elves, they dont stop being same race just because they change color over night

Its just out of the blue(pun) argument to say that lore wise, Void Elves is another race. It makes no sense from a lore perspective. Using the argument with playable races would be scraping the butter on the bread, but better than using the lore argument.

[Tanaria]

Nightborne Mage Concepts:
I personally prefer males, but then Elisande, Thalyssra, and Thalyssra's replacement were all females. WE did fight a few mage Lords to be fair, who seemed more male than female, but the Duskguard were pretty even.

I'd argue that the Nightborne are more "Female Mage." Elisande, the leader was female. All of her "first arcanist's" were female. The best leyline researcher in Suramar was female.
Yes, we've got Oculeth, with his telemancy, but Thalyssra is also known to have great telemancy skills, such as being able to teleport the whole Horde Army to Zandalar.

- - - Updated - - -

Blood Elves
gAgain here, no gender disparity for mages. I do have a male blood elf mage, I've had like forever, I will still keep him and play him. My main was a blood elf hunter for a while, male too, I'm keeping him too. He's my farstrider, got a female warlock, green eyes, and off course, the only elven paladins are Blood elves, just like the only Elven druids are night elves, which is a bit silly, they should all have access to druids and paladins, but with different names. I think night warriors should be the night elf and nightborne version of Paladin, yes, nightborne should have access to them, Elune should be a big part of the nightborne, but other facets to the order that weren't emphasized with the Darnassians because of the Long vigil and the ban can now come out, including hte other star facets of the Order. I think nightborne druids should be Valewalkers, and blood and High elven ones as Botanists, Void elves should have a unique name, like Void Harversters or Tenders. Void elves should be paladins as Void knights or light paladins because of the high elf options.

All my blood elves except my paladin are changing hair colour and skin colour. and I'm removing the ones I chagned to blue eyes and setting them to either green or gold (priest/pala) or where the gear makes sense

Blood Elves are like Night Elf Mages, in some regard. Most common ones are males, but we've seen a lot of female blood elf mage npcs.
Also, the Sorceresses in W3 were all female high/blood elves, whilst the Priests were all male high/blood elves.

And I'm all for more classes, but it's got to be at a time when Blizzard can tell a decent story. Thus far, only Night Elf Paladins could fit the bill. Nightborne Paladins would be "Holy Light Acolytes", Blood Elf Druids would be "Tauren Druid Apprentices." Why? Because that's all Blizzard would muster.

If the story isn't going to be good, then I reckon it should be left unchanged.

[Echo of Soul]

It's pretty simple. If it doesn't say High Elf on the character creation screen when choosing a race you're not a High Elf.
You're free to create a Blood Elf or a Void Elf and RP as a High Elf though.