1. #25161
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    I've said many things, some of them are the exact opposite of each other.

    Context my dear, such recollections are only relevant in the context they are made.

    I still s and by 100% what I said, just don't you go mis-understanding.. in your hurt over my suggestions, you simply failed to look beyond losing silvermoon to see what else could benefit you in the long run. . While closing the elf chapter on the horde would work very well, it could still be open if it came in line with the rest of the faction - on the basis ofc that returning to distinct faction themes was the directon. However my preferred suggestion never involved removal, even in the occassions it was listed as an option, which it is.

    It all depends on what blizz want to do, , I'm sorry you can't look beyond.. "oh no, blood elves can't lose Silvermoon, = the end of the world"
    Of course, I am not going to like the blood elves and the nightborne to lose their homes and not get anything in return. and in this post you still don't tell me what the great future would have been for the nightborne and blood elves according to your plan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    And alliance/High Elves not having Silvermoon, Suramar, Lordaeron and Highmountain, isn't the end of the world, either.

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    A QT warfront was planned, but it was scrapped because the Warfront system was negatively viewed.

    I think, rather than the QT Warfront, they brought in the Sin'dorei Heritage Armor.
    I think the warfronts were BFA's big disappointment. I think blizzard didn't know how to handle warfront and expeditions was too much for them. and they only decided to continue with expeditions because it was less work than warfront

  2. #25162
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    (btw, trolls could use beards too if we're on that topic)
    I've been advocating beards for trolls for years, but couldn't really get any traction, not even on the official forums. The most recent thread has a total of four posts and has now sunk off the front page. I guess only a handle of players like me want them
    Last edited by Mungho; 2021-09-04 at 09:52 PM.

  3. #25163
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Some people would rather believe that if we support sharing customization options is because we are just greedy VE players that want more stuff while preventing others from getting it.

    Instead of, you know, overall being okay with customization sharing where it makes sense in the lore -and even that is very subjective-

    But I guess it's funnier to say "VElf fans don't want NB to be updated and vice versa"
    I just want everyone to get the options for the races they enjoy. It shouldn't be turned into a competition. I'd imagine most people play more than one race and want options for all the ones they enjoy playing.

  4. #25164
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    I just want everyone to get the options for the races they enjoy. It shouldn't be turned into a competition. I'd imagine most people play more than one race and want options for all the ones they enjoy playing.
    That's what saddens me. People should be striving to get the customization options they want, not blocking others from getting the ones they want. Some people legitimaly use the argument that exclusivity by itself is a want that has to be respected, but I can't agree with that. Would be hypocritical of me to say things should be exclusive for its own sake when I advocated for HE fantasy on VEs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mungho View Post
    I've been advocating beards for trolls for years, but couldn't really get any traction, not even on the official forums. The most recent thread has a total of four posts and has now sunk off the front page. I guess only a handle of players like me want them
    Don't lose hope!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    And alliance/High Elves not having Silvermoon, Suramar, Lordaeron and Highmountain, isn't the end of the world, either.
    There is just so many ways of saying "Silvermoon should not loose BE sovereignty over to the alliance" to someone that disagrees with it at its core.

    Specially if that person at their core don't believe that Blood Elf identity is part of the Horde. You really get nothing arguing with someone who believes all eleven identity is rightfully and intrinsically alliance, and as such, cities like Suramar and Silvermoon SHOULD be alliance.

    And it's like the philosophical opposite of this thread where the whole point is that elven identities exist beyond the faction divide and thus, can and DO exist in both.

  5. #25165
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    That's what saddens me. People should be striving to get the customization options they want, not blocking others from getting the ones they want. Some people legitimaly use the argument that exclusivity by itself is a want that has to be respected, but I can't agree with that. Would be hypocritical of me to say things should be exclusive for its own sake when I advocated for HE fantasy on VEs.
    I feel the same way about exclusivity. I'm glad we got our skin and hair colors though. I'd like to see the requests for blood elf hairstyles and paladins kind of fade into background noise because it just feeds into the whole "give them an inch, they take a mile" rhetoric that keeps getting spouted.

    Would I complain about void elf paladins? No. But I don't need void elves to have paladins to be happy with them. I know some people do want that though so I can't just say "don't ask for that!". Same for the hairstyles, though in all honesty, I'd be happy with more hairstyles from anywhere. I don't specifically need blood elf hairstyles.

  6. #25166
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    I feel the same way about exclusivity. I'm glad we got our skin and hair colors though. I'd like to see the requests for blood elf hairstyles and paladins kind of fade into background noise because it just feeds into the whole "give them an inch, they take a mile" rhetoric that keeps getting spouted.

    Would I complain about void elf paladins? No. But I don't need void elves to have paladins to be happy with them. I know some people do want that though so I can't just say "don't ask for that!". Same for the hairstyles, though in all honesty, I'd be happy with more hairstyles from anywhere. I don't specifically need blood elf hairstyles.
    In a way the "we need to have everything BE's have" feels like the other end of the spectrum of bad takes lmao. And I think both things come from the same core, the idea races are defined by their aesthetics to the point their identity revolves about looks. High Elves kinda HAVE to look like BE's because they are pretty much the same race, but many people, myself included, would have been happy with a new model a la Nightborne.

    We should all be able to ask for what we want, but at the end of the day it's about if the devs will agree. The High Elf issue was always a hot topic because it really just never made sense from a lore standpoint, and making VE's playable really just made it clear it was a design choice without a strong reasoning.

    Exclusivity shouldn't be the goal by itself when it comes to customization, but also the HE fantasy simply doesn't need to be a 1:1 replica of the BE choices to finally exist.

    The VE model DOES need more hairstyles, but they can be entirely new, or simply taken from any other race that is not BE. I don't see a point why not, but in the same manner I do think there's a better argument that either unique or hairstyles from another race could serve to expand on that cultural divide, and how it expresses as style.

    IMO if we want to actually use aesthetics and style as a cultural signifier, it would be nice if there was a hairstyle swap, but with races of the same faction.

  7. #25167
    Brewmaster Pheraz's Avatar
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    Okay the roleplaying on the PTR was on new heights.

    SW barber shop full of high elves.

    A BE rogue named "Sindorei" killing all high elves xD

    Logged to my night elf warrior then he ran away
    Vynd | Zorn | Pheraz | Silwyna | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - My personal Kaldorei army <3 Plus lots of voidy high elves <3

  8. #25168
    Yea, it seems all I can do now is... stay silent... when I see people asking for more stuff from blood elves. If I post, even to say I'd like something different, I'd still be giving their request more visibility by bumping their threads. I hope other people realize that as well and just step back and find the strength to not reply if its a request they don't actually support. Visibility is what got us the skin and hair colors. Each of us need to remember that visibility can also be used to make changes to the game that we don't agree with, just as it made changes that we wanted and others did not.

    Not saying people shouldnt ask for what they want. Just saying, if its a change you don't want to happen, dont make the mistake the antis did and keep the topics visible through verbal sparring. Let them just die off due to inactivity.

  9. #25169
    Quote Originally Posted by Mungho View Post
    I've been advocating beards for trolls for years, but couldn't really get any traction, not even on the official forums. The most recent thread has a total of four posts and has now sunk off the front page. I guess only a handle of players like me want them
    we need forest trolls!

  10. #25170
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    Okay the roleplaying on the PTR was on new heights.

    SW barber shop full of high elves.

    A BE rogue named "Sindorei" killing all high elves xD

    Logged to my night elf warrior then he ran away
    lmao I saw him yesterday, but we were with war mode off so we were talking to him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    Yea, it seems all I can do now is... stay silent... when I see people asking for more stuff from blood elves. If I post, even to say I'd like something different, I'd still be giving their request more visibility by bumping their threads. I hope other people realize that as well and just step back and find the strength to not reply if its a request they don't actually support. Visibility is what got us the skin and hair colors. Each of us need to remember that visibility can also be used to make changes to the game that we don't agree with, just as it made changes that we wanted and others did not.

    Not saying people shouldnt ask for what they want. Just saying, if its a change you don't want to happen, dont make the mistake the antis did and keep the topics visible through verbal sparring. Let them just die off due to inactivity.
    Exactly. We can't deny that what a lot of what gave HE threads visibility was the constant arguments lol. Non-controversial requests often just get lost because no one has to keep justifying them.

  11. #25171
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    The VE model DOES need more hairstyles, but they can be entirely new, or simply taken from any other race that is not BE. I don't see a point why not, but in the same manner I do think there's a better argument that either unique or hairstyles from another race could serve to expand on that cultural divide, and how it expresses as style.

    IMO if we want to actually use aesthetics and style as a cultural signifier, it would be nice if there was a hairstyle swap, but with races of the same faction.
    I want them to get human hairstyles, not blood elf ones. Human hairstyles + short ear options would basically complete the half-elf RP.

  12. #25172
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    Okay the roleplaying on the PTR was on new heights.

    SW barber shop full of high elves.

    A BE rogue named "Sindorei" killing all high elves xD

    Logged to my night elf warrior then he ran away
    lol, he's still upset about high elves days later. glad you kicked his ass.

  13. #25173
    Quote Originally Posted by FossilFree View Post
    I want them to get human hairstyles, not blood elf ones. Human hairstyles + short ear options would basically complete the half-elf RP.
    That would be pretty neat; if anything it fits both HE and VE because humans really are the race they have more interaction with as we only see VE's in Azeroth hanging out in Stormwind (and as you say, the whole idea that HE's have assimilated into humanity already fits in with half elf rp)

    So yeah, if a hair swap happens again -and I hope it does- I'd like if VE's swapped hair styles with humans.

  14. #25174
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    That would be pretty neat; if anything it fits both HE and VE because humans really are the race they have more interaction with as we only see VE's in Azeroth hanging out in Stormwind (and as you say, the whole idea that HE's have assimilated into humanity already fits in with half elf rp)

    So yeah, if a hair swap happens again -and I hope it does- I'd like if VE's swapped hair styles with humans.
    Now I really hope it happens! If I had any art skills, I'd try swapping the hairstyles from humans to void elves to see what they would look like. I'd probably mess it up though lol.

  15. #25175
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    And alliance/High Elves not having Silvermoon, Suramar, Lordaeron and Highmountain, isn't the end of the world, either.
    No it isn't Tany, but I'm not the one raging in consternation at the status quo.. While i didn't like that they gave the horde Suramar for obvious reasons, notice how I also accept it is there. The issue is you and Rhlor just go bonkers at any suggestion that they lose these cities regardless of what is being said or the context with which it is giving, you just can't seem to process, which makes having conversation that are intelligent on such unexpected developments very difficult with you.

    It's like you can't even discuss such possibilities even though we both know they are extremely unlikely to happen. The point of having discussion boards is to discuss all kinds of scenarios, if you get very offended at suggestions you don't like and are unable to engage meaningfully in the context and subject that such suggestions are brought up, then you can't contribute constructively at all, which you proved back then. I had to repeat myself so many times, and you still weren't getting it.

    You do realise I don't hate blood elves, and I don't play high elves either right? Despite the fact that I do like high elves and feel it is right they are playable, blood elves are enough for me to fulfil that fantasy, and i am happy with void elves being purple (all mine are). You also realise I did write a benefits scenario of the Nightborne joining the horde too, so haven't been vehemently opposed to it at all, i was opposed to how they did it when they did it, but I am a fairly open person. You do realise I play Nightborne too and quite like them right?

    yet despite my like for night elves there are many thing s about them done in game I am not satisfied with and feel they could be and should be done better, same with all the elven groups, and I explore many scenarios and situations with whatever goal the topic at hand concerns. If it is faction balance, or re-aligning faction themes, I stand by what I said was the best options and I explored it thoroughly. Just because you heavily oppose or don't like even the idea (because it hasn't happened yet, it's just an idea) of Silvermoon and Suramar returning to the high elves and night elves as opposed tot he sub faction blood elves and Nightborne, doesn't mean it's horrible, bad or should not be considered ide or topic for discussion.

    you are free to dislike ofc, but, why get so emotional over something you know is very unlikely to happen? Why not feel free to explore the idea. I've explored the idea of the night elves going horde fully, without getting angry and emotional, enough to be able to outline it's merit. I've also explored them never joining those 2 main factions and being their own, which is my preferred position. But I'm not butt hurt they are in the alliance, the alliance fits them better like it does all elven races, given their current nature. It does, still even though that's the case, blood elves and nightborne are on the horde. They don't fit that well, that's the truth, but it's not relevant, because they are there anyway, they aren't going anywhere now.

    to get angry that I state the obvious they don't fit, is silly, then to balk at suggestions on how we can engineer them to fit more in line with e horde themes because you are angry is equally silly, if you approached it pragmatically, like you sometimes do, sure there are reasons that can be positive for them to remain in the more alliance mindset and traditions of the horde, and I would agree, however form the context of having distinct faction themes, that isn't a good thing (again from that context only),.Having distinct faction themes is not the be all and all and necessarily the only way to progress or "fix" wow.. just because I feel it is the best way to restore part of the distinctiveness and powerful dichotomy warcraft had which I believe was a huge part of it's charm, doesn't mean that not doing the best approach is doomed or a failure. Doesn't mean that new evolutions won't work just as well or even better in time.. they just won't be the old warcraft..


    See, nothing to get upset about. you aren't losing Silvermoon or Suramar, no need to go into a tiffle at the barest hint of the mention of it, every time.


    While I know all this means a lot to you, don't you think it's too much? you try so hard, police the forums so vigilantly for comments that might turn public opinion in favour of the alliance elves, isn't itt exhausting? Your mental health, your well being, your peace of mind, dependent on what some random forum person posts that you have to quickly oppose in case the developers see this and think this might be a good thing to do - and you just can't have that. Should this poor fantasy have such a grip on your life, your time, your thoughts and activity? Is it actually worth the energy and emotional marathon it's making you run? Do you ahve to be in control of something you know you can't control, and isn't within your power to directly change only for a chance at possibly influencing it?

    Wouldn't it just be easier to just enjoy the ride wherever it may go and trust that the devs will do something good for every race regardless, and while voicing your opinions and desires is okay, what I'm concerned about for you is the degree you've emotionally and psychologically invested in something that is totally out of your hands and isn't even real. It's just entertainment. Be free Tanaria. that's my wish for you. Enjoy warcraft, but don't let it become a chain on your life. Such a "make belief" thing should have such power over you, a human being.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    Of course, I am not going to like the blood elves and the nightborne to lose their homes and not get anything in return. and in this post you still don't tell me what the great future would have been for the nightborne and blood elves according to your plan.
    You only needed to read the rest of the conversations in that section, and several others you resonded to, where I repeated this a few times, and went into some detail. My essay days are done on warcraft.. It's all there.

    For the purpose of the context and sub section of the topic it involved, the proposal fit, but there was more to it i expanded on sa the discussion developed. the reason i didn't initially go into it, was because the focus was not developing or redevleoping the blood elves, but of restoring and boosting the alliance so it woudl draw players back. Ofc I won't go into depth of what should become of the blood elves, cos they aren't my focus, but I did in the end, quite a few times for you and other blood elf fans' sakes. Refer to the conversation.
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  16. #25176
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    SNIP
    You do you, with endless Night Elf threads and I'll do me.

    If I was this engaged to Night Elf lore, you'd be championing me right now - because it's for the Horde Sin'dorei, and I'm simply expressing my wishes for my favorite race. For starters, they need their starter zone updating, with Silvermoon completely done (including the Ruins of Silvermoon.) Many people are passionate about their preferred races.

    And you don't accept that Silvermoon and Suramar are Horde. Everytime, you want the cities either shared or given to the Alliance. The latter isn't even a proper functioning Horde City anyway. Hell, you've even spoke about Lordaeron and Highmountain going to the Alliance - so that's 4 Horde races that have been displaced for no reason and to expect that happens in a none-red vs blue expansion, is just laughable. Blizzard have already said that BFA would be a last red vs blue expansion, for a number of years. Good, because the last one was a disaster.

    And both you and Rhlor are wrong about Suramar. It's not part of the Horde content - we literally only have the Nighthold and that's it. We don't get the "Grand City of Suramar." We literally just get a small circle, no bigger than Stormwind Park + a bit of the Mage District.

    And if Night Elves get a new city in Hyjal, then Blood Elves should get an updated Suramar. Hell, the idea of a Quel'Thalas Warfront is enough that they can bring Quel'Thalas and Azuremyst Isle out of the Outland Maps and connect them back to the Azeroth Maps.

    I predict a Void Elf/High Elf City to be made, but either in Duskwood (or the Stormwind-Human Province), or in Telogrus.
    Last edited by Tanaria; 2021-09-05 at 11:51 AM.

  17. #25177
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    No it isn't Tany, but I'm not the one raging in consternation at the status quo.. While i didn't like that they gave the horde Suramar for obvious reasons, notice how I also accept it is there. The issue is you and Rhlor just go bonkers at any suggestion that they lose these cities regardless of what is being said or the context with which it is giving, you just can't seem to process, which makes having conversation that are intelligent on such unexpected developments very difficult with you.

    It's like you can't even discuss such possibilities even though we both know they are extremely unlikely to happen. The point of having discussion boards is to discuss all kinds of scenarios, if you get very offended at suggestions you don't like and are unable to engage meaningfully in the context and subject that such suggestions are brought up, then you can't contribute constructively at all, which you proved back then. I had to repeat myself so many times, and you still weren't getting it.

    You do realise I don't hate blood elves, and I don't play high elves either right? Despite the fact that I do like high elves and feel it is right they are playable, blood elves are enough for me to fulfil that fantasy, and i am happy with void elves being purple (all mine are). You also realise I did write a benefits scenario of the Nightborne joining the horde too, so haven't been vehemently opposed to it at all, i was opposed to how they did it when they did it, but I am a fairly open person. You do realise I play Nightborne too and quite like them right?

    yet despite my like for night elves there are many thing s about them done in game I am not satisfied with and feel they could be and should be done better, same with all the elven groups, and I explore many scenarios and situations with whatever goal the topic at hand concerns. If it is faction balance, or re-aligning faction themes, I stand by what I said was the best options and I explored it thoroughly. Just because you heavily oppose or don't like even the idea (because it hasn't happened yet, it's just an idea) of Silvermoon and Suramar returning to the high elves and night elves as opposed tot he sub faction blood elves and Nightborne, doesn't mean it's horrible, bad or should not be considered ide or topic for discussion.

    you are free to dislike ofc, but, why get so emotional over something you know is very unlikely to happen? Why not feel free to explore the idea. I've explored the idea of the night elves going horde fully, without getting angry and emotional, enough to be able to outline it's merit. I've also explored them never joining those 2 main factions and being their own, which is my preferred position. But I'm not butt hurt they are in the alliance, the alliance fits them better like it does all elven races, given their current nature. It does, still even though that's the case, blood elves and nightborne are on the horde. They don't fit that well, that's the truth, but it's not relevant, because they are there anyway, they aren't going anywhere now.

    to get angry that I state the obvious they don't fit, is silly, then to balk at suggestions on how we can engineer them to fit more in line with e horde themes because you are angry is equally silly, if you approached it pragmatically, like you sometimes do, sure there are reasons that can be positive for them to remain in the more alliance mindset and traditions of the horde, and I would agree, however form the context of having distinct faction themes, that isn't a good thing (again from that context only),.Having distinct faction themes is not the be all and all and necessarily the only way to progress or "fix" wow.. just because I feel it is the best way to restore part of the distinctiveness and powerful dichotomy warcraft had which I believe was a huge part of it's charm, doesn't mean that not doing the best approach is doomed or a failure. Doesn't mean that new evolutions won't work just as well or even better in time.. they just won't be the old warcraft..


    See, nothing to get upset about. you aren't losing Silvermoon or Suramar, no need to go into a tiffle at the barest hint of the mention of it, every time.


    While I know all this means a lot to you, don't you think it's too much? you try so hard, police the forums so vigilantly for comments that might turn public opinion in favour of the alliance elves, isn't itt exhausting? Your mental health, your well being, your peace of mind, dependent on what some random forum person posts that you have to quickly oppose in case the developers see this and think this might be a good thing to do - and you just can't have that. Should this poor fantasy have such a grip on your life, your time, your thoughts and activity? Is it actually worth the energy and emotional marathon it's making you run? Do you ahve to be in control of something you know you can't control, and isn't within your power to directly change only for a chance at possibly influencing it?

    Wouldn't it just be easier to just enjoy the ride wherever it may go and trust that the devs will do something good for every race regardless, and while voicing your opinions and desires is okay, what I'm concerned about for you is the degree you've emotionally and psychologically invested in something that is totally out of your hands and isn't even real. It's just entertainment. Be free Tanaria. that's my wish for you. Enjoy warcraft, but don't let it become a chain on your life. Such a "make belief" thing should have such power over you, a human being.

    - - - Updated - - -


    You only needed to read the rest of the conversations in that section, and several others you resonded to, where I repeated this a few times, and went into some detail. My essay days are done on warcraft.. It's all there.

    For the purpose of the context and sub section of the topic it involved, the proposal fit, but there was more to it i expanded on sa the discussion developed. the reason i didn't initially go into it, was because the focus was not developing or redevleoping the blood elves, but of restoring and boosting the alliance so it woudl draw players back. Ofc I won't go into depth of what should become of the blood elves, cos they aren't my focus, but I did in the end, quite a few times for you and other blood elf fans' sakes. Refer to the conversation.
    I guess you talked about Nathria as Tanaria said. I do not remember it but well let's leave this topic that so conflicting. if you raise this issue again, do not forget to include the future of the affected races in the same post.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    You do you, with endless Night Elf threads and I'll do me.

    If I was this engaged to Night Elf lore, you'd be championing me right now - because it's for the Horde Sin'dorei, and I'm simply expressing my wishes for my favorite race. For starters, they need their starter zone updating, with Silvermoon completely done (including the Ruins of Silvermoon.) Many people are passionate about their preferred races.

    And you don't accept that Silvermoon and Suramar are Horde. Everytime, you want the cities either shared or given to the Alliance. The latter isn't even a proper functioning Horde City anyway. Hell, you've even spoke about Lordaeron and Highmountain going to the Alliance - so that's 4 Horde races that have been displaced for no reason and to expect that happens in a none-red vs blue expansion, is just laughable. Blizzard have already said that BFA would be a last red vs blue expansion, for a number of years. Good, because the last one was a disaster.

    And both you and Rhlor are wrong about Suramar. It's not part of the Horde content - we literally only have the Nighthold and that's it. We don't get the "Grand City of Suramar." We literally just get a small circle, no bigger than Stormwind Park + a bit of the Mage District.

    And if Night Elves get a new city in Hyjal, then Blood Elves should get an updated Suramar. Hell, the idea of a Quel'Thalas Warfront is enough that they can bring Quel'Thalas and Azuremyst Isle out of the Outland Maps and connect them back to the Azeroth Maps.

    I predict a Void Elf/High Elf City to be made, but either in Duskwood (or the Stormwind-Human Province), or in Telogrus.
    GamePlay = / = Lore

    In the Lore clearly the Nightborne have surgery and in the Gamplay only Nighthold. I want to include that dragon that can change a legion Suramar to friendly npcs Suramar with horde.

  18. #25178
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    You do you, with endless Night Elf threads and I'll do me.

    If I was this engaged to Night Elf lore, you'd be championing me right now - because it's for the Horde Sin'dorei, and I'm simply expressing my wishes for my favorite race. For starters, they need their starter zone updating, with Silvermoon completely done (including the Ruins of Silvermoon.) Many people are passionate about their preferred races.

    And you don't accept that Silvermoon and Suramar are Horde. Everytime, you want the cities either shared or given to the Alliance. The latter isn't even a proper functioning Horde City anyway. Hell, you've even spoke about Lordaeron and Highmountain going to the Alliance - so that's 4 Horde races that have been displaced for no reason and to expect that happens in a none-red vs blue expansion, is just laughable. Blizzard have already said that BFA would be a last red vs blue expansion, for a number of years. Good, because the last one was a disaster.

    And both you and Rhlor are wrong about Suramar. It's not part of the Horde content - we literally only have the Nighthold and that's it. We don't get the "Grand City of Suramar." We literally just get a small circle, no bigger than Stormwind Park + a bit of the Mage District.

    And if Night Elves get a new city in Hyjal, then Blood Elves should get an updated Suramar. Hell, the idea of a Quel'Thalas Warfront is enough that they can bring Quel'Thalas and Azuremyst Isle out of the Outland Maps and connect them back to the Azeroth Maps.

    I predict a Void Elf/High Elf City to be made, but either in Duskwood (or the Stormwind-Human Province), or in Telogrus.
    Truth be told, I don't wish blood elves to ever lose Silvermoon or Quel'thalas. They went through very dark times to rebuild their homeland, losing it would be just... well, not right. I can certainly imagine some sort of fight going on in QT, be it thalassian civil war or a void incursions which threatens Sunwell in the future void X light expansion, but sin'dorei should hold the city. It's up for high elves and void elves to build their new home.

    I used to think that the most logical move for blood elves is to leave Horde. For years, they only contributed to Horde's Wars abroad, without Horde itself providing any real support for sin'dorei affairs. Farstriders had to invite Vereesa and alliance elves to assist them during Amani crisis, Ghostlands are still infested with undead during Three Sisters comic, so it seems Ghostlands are still not fully retaken after all these years. We've seen elves leaving the greater faction once they felt they have no use for the partnership, so basicaly, they should just leave the Horde after Sunwell's restoration (in which Horde did not play any major role to begin with) and maintain neutral position in the world. In the current story, Lor'themar being a part of Horde Council, he could finaly pull some real advantages for blood elves within the Horde. It can escalate into some political intrigues within the Horde. Quite good potential.

    Obviously, blood elves will never leave Horde for gameplay reasons and I'm quite fine with that. I just like more refined stories and blood elves merging into the whole "lok'tar ogar" mentality does not feel right. I liked when their relations with other races were somewhat uneasy. It made more interesting stories, then just the monotonous boring "we are all best friends" tropes. It's not just the Horde's thing, Alliance's storytelling suffers the same issue.

  19. #25179
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Truth be told, I don't wish blood elves to ever lose Silvermoon or Quel'thalas. They went through very dark times to rebuild their homeland, losing it would be just... well, not right. I can certainly imagine some sort of fight going on in QT, be it thalassian civil war or a void incursions which threatens Sunwell in the future void X light expansion, but sin'dorei should hold the city. It's up for high elves and void elves to build their new home.

    I used to think that the most logical move for blood elves is to leave Horde. For years, they only contributed to Horde's Wars abroad, without Horde itself providing any real support for sin'dorei affairs. Farstriders had to invite Vereesa and alliance elves to assist them during Amani crisis, Ghostlands are still infested with undead during Three Sisters comic, so it seems Ghostlands are still not fully retaken after all these years. We've seen elves leaving the greater faction once they felt they have no use for the partnership, so basicaly, they should just leave the Horde after Sunwell's restoration (in which Horde did not play any major role to begin with) and maintain neutral position in the world. In the current story, Lor'themar being a part of Horde Council, he could finaly pull some real advantages for blood elves within the Horde. It can escalate into some political intrigues within the Horde. Quite good potential.

    Obviously, blood elves will never leave Horde for gameplay reasons and I'm quite fine with that. I just like more refined stories and blood elves merging into the whole "lok'tar ogar" mentality does not feel right. I liked when their relations with other races were somewhat uneasy. It made more interesting stories, then just the monotonous boring "we are all best friends" tropes. It's not just the Horde's thing, Alliance's storytelling suffers the same issue.
    I'm not against the Blood Elves losing the Sunwell to void incursions or maybe to Queen Azshara - she could view the Sunwell as a gateway for the Void and she destroys it.
    If we get a racial pride expansion and for some of the quests, our classes matter, Blood Elf Mages and Blood Elf Warlocks could work with Rommath and go to Outland to get Blood Crystals, which could tap into the leylines of Quel'Thalas and sustain the Sin'dorei. A Large Blood Crystal could be teleported to where the Sunwell was based and used by Rommath and Astalor to "attach" it to the leylines...maybe even get their Nightborne friends (Valtrois), to help them with this.
    The Warlocks could gather Fel Crystals and Arcane Crystals to go into the Ruins of Silvermoon, which would restore that portion of the city and sustain the people, in the immediate. That way @ravenmoon, could still get his "bad boy, Horde Blood Elves" and I still get to have Quel'Thalas and Silvermoon.
    (Obviously, the Blood Knights and Priests will do their questlines with Liadrin - perhaps lead an effort to hunt down Azshara. The Farstriders could do their thing with Halduron if the Amani returned and began wielding the Void.)

    Now Lor'themar is basically leading the Horde Council at the moment, which is good because he is one who deserves to show his leadership. He's patient and calm - he doesn't shout and scream, but he gets the job done. Calia Menethil seems to see him as the leader as she reports to him about what is going on, in the Shadowlands.

  20. #25180
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Truth be told, I don't wish blood elves to ever lose Silvermoon or Quel'thalas. They went through very dark times to rebuild their homeland, losing it would be just... well, not right. I can certainly imagine some sort of fight going on in QT, be it thalassian civil war or a void incursions which threatens Sunwell in the future void X light expansion, but sin'dorei should hold the city. It's up for high elves and void elves to build their new home.

    I used to think that the most logical move for blood elves is to leave Horde. For years, they only contributed to Horde's Wars abroad, without Horde itself providing any real support for sin'dorei affairs. Farstriders had to invite Vereesa and alliance elves to assist them during Amani crisis, Ghostlands are still infested with undead during Three Sisters comic, so it seems Ghostlands are still not fully retaken after all these years. We've seen elves leaving the greater faction once they felt they have no use for the partnership, so basicaly, they should just leave the Horde after Sunwell's restoration (in which Horde did not play any major role to begin with) and maintain neutral position in the world. In the current story, Lor'themar being a part of Horde Council, he could finaly pull some real advantages for blood elves within the Horde. It can escalate into some political intrigues within the Horde. Quite good potential.

    Obviously, blood elves will never leave Horde for gameplay reasons and I'm quite fine with that. I just like more refined stories and blood elves merging into the whole "lok'tar ogar" mentality does not feel right. I liked when their relations with other races were somewhat uneasy. It made more interesting stories, then just the monotonous boring "we are all best friends" tropes. It's not just the Horde's thing, Alliance's storytelling suffers the same issue.
    I would rather vehemently disagree.

    The Blood Elves have actually been quite consistently cucked by the Alliance and have held far more shaky relations with them than just about any other race. Kael openly rebelled against Garithos following his imprisonment by the Naga--add to this that the entire arc of the Blood Elves happened quite specifically because they were rejected by the Alliance and generally unable to negotiate with them. Indeed, the whole Thalassian storyline functionally happened because of a sequence of Humans deciding to be pricks, and the original High Elves themselves were also never particularly loyal to the Alliance--those that stayed loyal were the Farstriders on the frontlines, and the majority of Elves were the ones who ducked out after the Second War concluded.

    Thematically, also, the Blood Elves haven't been chiefly "refined" for any of their history. They've mostly been addicts trying to recover and survive, which is a mentality which actually better meshes with the Horde, who are all in some sense survivors of odds stacked against them. The Alliance, on the other hand, are chiefly defined by the promotion of abstract moral ideals--the Blood Elves don't really have those as a central tenet of their species. Even on a religious level, their relationship with the Light is active and physical, as opposed to the abstract level on which the Humans relate with it.

    Add to this that the Blood Elves have remained far closer to the Horde over their history, including that they were carried farther and through far harder times by Horde allies. Lor'Themar all but actively admits this, even considering becoming Warchief for a time. It has to be clear that the Blood Elves population as a whole are far better fit for their existing faction, and I quite frankly think that joining the Horde was a good decision from the get-go. If you've played Curse of the Blood Elves in Warcraft III, you'll notice that a lot of the Blood Elves' rhetoric lined up with Thrall's Horde, save for being considerably more amoral and pragmatic.

    The only real hurdle for the Blood Elves joining the Horde would've been bad blood with one or more of the races, and the only one that ever did serious damage to Quel'Thalas would be the Trolls, and not even the Trolls that the Horde actually employs anymore. The Alliance was overall more oppressive and antagonistic to the Blood Elves--on a more macro level, it become evident why, and the Alliance are clearly not complete aggressors. However, Garithos' actions would've been enough to sour most Blood Elves, since he actively imprisoned them after giving them an unwinnable battle; when news of this reached Quel'Thalas, it is likely the Blood Elves would have blamed the Alliance more than anyone else. Younger Blood Elves would chiefly remember the Horde as the ones who bailed them out and gave them assistance in returning civilization to Quel'Thalas, whilst older Blood Elves would likely still hold a grudge against Garithos and the other members of the Alliance who made their journey to restoration so difficult. Ironically, the only strong connection the Blood Elves still have with the Alliance is with the Draenei, who were responsible for restoring the Sunwell--in this sense, it is only the new members of the Alliance who are considered particularly benign by the Blood Elves through their history.

    Finally, the Blood Elves actually sticking by a faction is indicative of increasing maturity as a race. The High Elves who stuck with the Alliance were bailed out of the destruction of Quel'Thalas because they demonstrated more loyalty than the Blood Elves who simply retreated behind their shield. In this sense, it would mirror that by having the Blood Elves sticking to the Horde reward them, showing how far they've come and how they've been humbled. The Nightborne can take the role of the big, arrogant Elves now--the Blood Elves are pretty clearly at a new spot in their arc, and the days of being regal, haughty nobility behind a shield has long past.

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